JoeCattoli
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P180 Project Only For Corporate Airplanes?

Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:21 am

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=295

I read some information about this airplane

http://www.piaggioamerica.com

and if everything is true it is really an astonishing airplane with propeller fuel consumes and nearly jet speeds...
Don't you think it could be possible to use such a design for a bigger airplane even with a long range to cut the costs of the airfares due to the big fuel savings?
Any comment is welcomed!
Ciao
Joe
 
JoeCattoli
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RE: P180 Project Only For Corporate Airplanes?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:45 pm

no ideas???
Ciao
Joe
 
doug_or
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RE: P180 Project Only For Corporate Airplanes?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:52 pm

Q400

filler filler

Anyway, the p180 is no poor mans anything. Between the high aquisition costs and maintance it is all the expense of jet without the prestige (hence why you don't see so many around).

(btw, bumping your own thread is considered rude in most internet forums)
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
JoeCattoli
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RE: P180 Project Only For Corporate Airplanes?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:26 am

It may cost the same as a jet but all the money will come back on the fuel savings.... don't you think?
Maybe a bigger airplane could be used by a new intelligent low cost airline...

(Anyway... I will try to not rebump my own threads even if without doing it I wouldn't have seen your answer but you are right it's not exactly elegant.)
Thanks
Ciao
Joe
 
texan
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RE: P180 Project Only For Corporate Airplanes?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:22 am

The Piaggio is a neat airplane: we see a couple per month. It works well for a business airplane, but it would be difficult to adopt this design to a much larger commercial aircraft. If you are talking regional prop similar to the Q200 or Q300, there remains the possibility that it could work. However, that would mean more than doubling the length of the aircraft which would add more weight; adding more cargo room which would add more weight; accounting for the added seats and passengers (more weight again); and other improvements to the airframe and systems. This would require a more powerful powerplant, one which is likely not yet in production or cannot be fitted to the Piaggio's design. The max weights on the current Avanti model, even translated into an 80 foot long airframe, would not be nearly enough to sustain commercial use.

The other difficulty comes in receiving enough of a response from airlines to launch the product. Couple of factors working against them. There does not appear to be a huge market for turboprops right now, although the tide could be turning. If the market does turn, there are established airframes available that fill the void very capably. Plus, with the lackluster sales of it on the business market, the company is not in a strong market position to create and market a new commercial airplane.

I like the Avanti. It is a neat, fun airplane for light business use. For commercial use it would basically have to be a completely new design. Therefore it is highly unlikely that the Avanti will be developed into a commercial airplane in the forseeable future.

The Q400 is receiving some looks from airlines looking to reduce fuel costs on regional routes, but even it's sales are not great. That might change in the future, though. Check out the information on Bombardier's website about it Smile

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
57AZ
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RE: P180 Project Only For Corporate Airplanes?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:17 pm

Boeing and Douglas both tested unducted fan engines in the 1980s. Unfortunately, low industry interest and design limitations led to the shelving of the projects. Boeing used a 727 and Douglas used a DC-9 variant. Due to the size of the propellers required, they were only really usable on rear fuselage mounted engine designs.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
JoeCattoli
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RE: P180 Project Only For Corporate Airplanes?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 4):
For commercial use it would basically have to be a completely new design.

That was exactly what I was thinking about... But you may have seen the reason:

Quoting Texan (Reply 4):
There does not appear to be a huge market for turboprops right now, although the tide could be turning. If the market does turn

...it could be a good idea I think... I think this revolutionary design could be very successful even if transposed in a bigger design.
Maybe if Piaggio would try it could be successful but perhaps it is still a too risky bet.
Thanks
Ciao
Joe