yow
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Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:22 am

The long talked about YTZ-based airline has officially placed an order with BBD for 10 Dash 8 Q400s. I guess they've figured out a way to work this thing without a bridge to the mainland.

TORONTO, Feb. 1 /CNW/ - REGCO Holdings Inc. today announced it has placed
a firm order with Bombardier Aerospace for 10 Q400 turboprop aircraft. The
total contract, which includes an option to purchase an additional 10
aircraft, is valued at more than $500 million (US).

REGCO will operate from Toronto City Centre Airport (TCCA), and plans to
serve regional markets both in Canada and the United States. The 70-seat Q400 fleet will be operated by a wholly-owned airline subsidiary of REGCO Holdings Inc.

The Q400 is a modern and environmentally-friendly aircraft, employing
state-of-the-art equipment and technology. It is capable of steep approach and reduced engine RPM landings to minimize operating noise. It is also the most fuel-efficient aircraft in its class, burning less fuel per seat than most
regional jets and narrow-bodied aircraft. The Q400 aircraft's revolutionary
Noise and Vibration Suppression (NVS) system results in the quietest turboprop
interior in the industry.

"This order is a sign of REGCO's commitment to developing a leading
regional airline focused on delivering competitive, quality air service," said
Robert Deluce, President and CEO of REGCO Holdings Inc. "We are confident that the Q400 is the perfect plane to allow our airline to bring substantial
economic benefits to the city and contribute to a revitalized Toronto City
Centre Airport."

REGCO will formally launch its wholly-owned airline subsidiary tomorrow
during a signing ceremony at Bombardier Aerospace, where it will unveil
additional details including the airline's name, logo, livery, operational
plans and investors.

Further information will be provided at tomorrow's event. The details are
as follows:

When: Thursday, February 2, 2006
10:30 a.m.

Anyone want to take a stab at what the airline's name will be. My guess, for no particular reason, is Island Air.  Smile

Wasn't Deluce the guy behind City Express back in the 80s?
 
CRJ900
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:45 am

Always nice to see some more orders. Is there really enough demand for another airline flying from Toronto? I thought the Canadian-US aviation market was pretty saturated by now with hoards of carriers large and small... no?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
planemaker
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting Yow (Thread starter):
Wasn't Deluce the guy behind City Express back in the 80s?

It was Victor Pappalardo and City Express flew between Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa. Pappalardo owns Trans Capital Air and still has a hanger at YTZ, the Esso FBO and several Dash-7s that mainly fly for the UN.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Olympus69
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:58 am

The CBC had this on their 'News at 6'. Mayor David 'Daley' Miller was vowing to do everything he could to prevent Robert Luce's airline from getting off the ground. He may hav a hard time with half a billion dollars for Toronto's economy at stake.
 
aeronut
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 3):
The CBC had this on their 'News at 6'. Mayor David 'Daley' Miller was vowing to do everything he could to prevent Robert Luce's airline from getting off the ground. He may hav a hard time with half a billion dollars for Toronto's economy at stake.

If I am not mistaken, I do not think David Miller was able to stop him from buying the planes and operating out of the airport, he was only to stop the construction of the bridge which would be needed for fire access as well as added pressure on the ferry service. I missed the news tonight, is the bridge going to be built now, or is Luce operating the planes out of Pearson, or Island Airport without the bridge?
 
md90fan
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:53 am

Good to see DASH-8 orders or to say any turboprop orders  Smile
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
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yyz717
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Aeronut (Reply 4):
is the bridge going to be built now, or is Luce operating the planes out of Pearson, or Island Airport without the bridge?

The bridge is effectively dead. Deluce is planning the airline to operate out of YTZ without the bridge. A new terminal will be needed though.

It will be nice to see the Q400 here at YTZ. Although it is hard to see the business case. AC Jazz at one point had 15 daily DH1 flights from YTZ, now they are down to 5 (all to YOW) and this will decline to just 2 dailies in the summer.

Anyway, this is great news for the YYZ economy: more airline jobs, more flights options, and more manufacturing jobs since the Q400 is manufactured just 10mi away. Our idiotic left-wing mayor should be bitch-slapped for opposing this. Incidently, no, he cannot stop new airline service from YTZ.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
planemaker
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Aeronut (Reply 4):
I missed the news tonight, is the bridge going to be built now, or is Luce operating the planes out of Pearson, or Island Airport without the bridge?

From the topic starter...

Quoting Yow (Thread starter):
REGCO will operate from Toronto City Centre Airport (TCCA),



Quoting Yow (Thread starter):
Robert Deluce, President and CEO of REGCO Holdings Inc. "We are confident that the Q400 is the perfect plane to allow our airline to bring substantial
economic benefits to the city and contribute to a revitalized Toronto City
Centre Airport."
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:42 am

hmmm, i wonder what routes he'll peg...

YOW and YUL seem obvious
NYC maybe?
BOS? PHL? CLE?
Chicago seems unlikely, but MDW might be an outside possibility, but far for a Q400 though.

then there is the regional airports he floated the 1st time round:

YQT, YAM, YSB, YTS, YYB, YXU, YQG... if he starts YYB or even YSB i might even consider patronizing them. Though the Q400 seems oversize for most of these markets, with the possible exception of YQT, and distance wise that one will have a hard sell (2.5 hours on a turboprop, any turboprop, is a hard sell), though considering CRJs are all there is to compete with... for now... (though watch AC suddenly decide to slap EMBs or A319s on YQT if Regco starts...)
YSB might be able to support a couple Q400s a day...
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
aeronut
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
Anyway, this is great news for the YYZ economy: more airline jobs, more flights options, and more manufacturing jobs since the Q400 is manufactured just 10mi away. Our idiotic left-wing mayor should be bitch-slapped for opposing this. Incidently, no, he cannot stop new airline service from YTZ.

In the end, his crusade to keep the waterfront free of aircraft has failed. Whether this business endeavor will be successful in the long term, time will tell. Incedently, did he ever really cancel his order with Bombardier when the bridge got cancelled, or was the order contingent on bridge construction, I forget?

As for Q400 production, with C-Series cancelled, I bet Bombardier-Montreal will be real hungry for these manufacturing jobs....
 
Olympus69
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
incidentally, no, he cannot stop new airline service from YTZ.

No, but he might be able to stop construction of a new terminal, though I don't think he'll get as much support as he did for canceling the bridge.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 8):
Chicago seems unlikely, but MDW might be an outside possibility, but far for a Q400 though.

Even that wouldn't be too bad for the Q400 with its speeds. This might be a prime candidate for GYY service though.
 
yow
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 3):
Mayor David 'Daley' Miller was vowing to do everything he could to prevent Robert Luce's airline from getting off the ground. He may hav a hard time with half a billion dollars for Toronto's economy at stake.

Toronto's gotta stop electing far-left NDP-types that will sacrifice anything just to please a few NIMBYS.

Here's the press release detailing the airline's name, which is Porter Airlines (I was a bit off with my prediction, lol):

Porter to take flight in 2006
Regional carrier to serve Canadian and US destinations from Toronto City
Centre Airport

TORONTO, Feb. 2 /CNW/ - Porter Airlines Inc. formally launched today by
logging its flight plan to become Canada's newest regional passenger carrier.
The airline unveiled its name, logo and livery at a signing ceremony this
morning before a group of media, employees, Canadian Auto Workers (CAW)
representatives, airline employees and other guests at the Bombardier
Aerospace Downsview manufacturing facility.

Yesterday, the airline's parent company, REGCO Holdings Inc., announced
it has placed a firm order with Bombardier Aerospace for ten (10) 70-seat Q400 turboprop aircraft. The total contract, which includes an option to purchase an additional 10 aircraft, is valued at more than $500 million (US). REGCO's wholly-owned subsidiary, Porter Airlines Inc. will take flight later this year from its operational base at the Toronto City Centre Airport (TCCA).

The airline will offer consumers a convenient alternative to Pearson
International Airport and serve short-haul Canadian and U.S. destinations
within a 500-nm radius of the Greater Toronto Area. Destination cities and
flight schedules will be announced at a later date.

"This is a great day for Toronto's aviation industry and, more
importantly, the flying public," said Robert Deluce, President and CEO of
REGCO Holdings Inc. "Porter looks forward to serving customers and
contributing to the Toronto economy. Our presence at the TCCA improves the
city's competitiveness by allowing passengers to have direct access to
downtown, stimulating business and tourism throughout the city."

"We are immensely proud that this new Toronto airline has chosen this
Toronto-built, world-leading aircraft, the Bombardier Q400," said Steven
Ridolfi, President, Bombardier Regional Aircraft. "This extraordinary regional
aircraft has led a resurgence in turboprop travel around the world. It has
everything - jet-like speed, quiet comfort, environmental friendliness, low
fuel burn, and the lowest operating costs of any regional aircraft. There is
no other turboprop that can compete with the Q400 aircraft in this arena.
Porter's order is a vote of confidence in the performance and operating
economics of the Q400."

According to Roland Kiehne, President of CAW Local 112, "CAW workers are
extremely proud to be building Porter's Q400 aircraft right here in Toronto,
where the airline will be based. We take pride in every plane that leaves
Downsview, but these will be particularly special."

REGCO Holdings Inc. also announced that it has recently completed an
equity financing of approximately $125 million CAD, the second-highest ever
for a new airline. The airline's investors include EdgeStone Capital Partners,
Borealis Infrastructure who invests on behalf of the Ontario Municipal
Employees Retirement System (OMERS) and REGCO Capital Corp., a company
controlled by Robert Deluce.

Mr. Deluce was joined at the event by former AMR Corp Chairman and CEO
Don Carty, who will serve as Chairman of REGCO Holdings Inc and Porter
Airlines Inc. Carty has unparalleled airline experience on both sides of the
border, serving as President and CEO of both American Airlines and CP Air
(predecessor to Canadian Airlines).

"We are tremendously fortunate to have Don Carty leading our Board of
Directors," added Deluce. "His advice and experience will be invaluable as we
develop our airline."

The airline and its related businesses will create 500 new direct and
indirect jobs at the airport, including management, sales, marketing,
engineering, maintenance, information technology, customer service, pilots and
flight attendants. Downtown Toronto business, including cultural events,
hotels and restaurants, will have additional economic benefits of up to $800
million annually. In addition, this announcement will support 150 existing
jobs and 20 businesses at the TCCA, which already contribute $100 million
annually to the downtown economy.

REGCO has signed a long-term Commercial Carrier Operating Agreement
(CCOA) with the Toronto Port Authority (TPA), operators of the Toronto City
Centre Airport. The airport, which has served downtown Toronto since 1939, is
governed by a Tripartite Agreement between the City of Toronto, The Federal
Government and the TPA. The Tripartite Agreement will remain in effect
until at least 2033.

The Q400 is a modern and environmentally-friendly aircraft, employing
state-of-the-art equipment and technology. It is capable of steep approach and reduced engine RPM landings to minimize operating noise. It is also the most fuel-efficient aircraft in its class, burning less fuel per seat than most
regional jets and narrow-bodied aircraft. The Q400 aircraft's revolutionary
Noise and Vibration Suppression (NVS) system results in the quietest turboprop
interior in the industry. It also features Pratt & Whitney Canada (PWC)
turboprop engines.

About Porter
Porter Airlines Inc. is a regional passenger carrier that will operate
out of Toronto City Centre Airport. The airline will begin scheduled service
later this year to short-haul Canadian and U.S. destinations within a 500-nm
radius of the Greater Toronto Area.

Porter is a subsidiary of privately-held REGCO Holdings Inc. Its
investors include EdgeStone Capital Partners, Borealis Infrastructure and
REGCO Capital Corp.

Notice how the mayor's name is conspicuously absent from the press release, yet even CAW union leaders were there.

The 500nm radius means YQT is probably out of the picture. YQG & YXU make a lot of sense as it would allow for same-plane 1-stops to YOW & YUL.

YZR is a market to consider. QK used to go there with 4 or 5 DH1s a day, now it's a mere 3 BE1s. YSB and YAM definitely make sense, perhaps YYB, YGK & YTS or even YQB (despite being slight outside the 500nm zone). The rest would be US destinations.
 
smokescreen
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:16 am

I am going to put my neck on the line here, as a (currently) displaced Torontonian who voted for Miller.
I am as much of an aviation enthusiast as the next person, but I also love the city in which I was born and raised. For decades the waterfront was a scar on the city, a nasty blight of abandoned port buildings, unused railway lands, and expressway overpasses. For as long as I can remember Torontonians have been fighting to make this area a usable public space for all citizens, and haltingly, it gets better every year.
The Island Airport is located in the midst of Ontario Place, Harbourfront Centre, the CNE, and the parks on the islands themselves. Having a full-scale commuter airport there makes as much sense as plopping one into the middle of Central Park in New York, at least from a quality of life perspective.
I am not in favour of bulldozing YTZ a la Meigs, and I don't have a problem with GA activity there - or even small-scale commercial operations such as the one being started by Mr. Deluce. Provided, that is, that he is prepared to make a go of it without requiring expansion and new infrastructure (ie. new runways or a bridge).
I will, however, oppose in any way I can any move that will detract from Torontonians' ability to enjoy their city while only benefiting a few.

I will wrap up my rant by saying how much I want a fast, efficient, and accessible rail link up to Pearson, which I believe would greatly reduce the need for commercial operations at Island.

I await your flames  Smile
 
sebring
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 13):
I am going to put my neck on the line here, as a (currently) displaced Torontonian who voted for Miller.
I am as much of an aviation enthusiast as the next person, but I also love the city in which I was born and raised. For decades the waterfront was a scar on the city, a nasty blight of abandoned port buildings, unused railway lands, and expressway overpasses. For as long as I can remember Torontonians have been fighting to make this area a usable public space for all citizens, and haltingly, it gets better every year.
The Island Airport is located in the midst of Ontario Place, Harbourfront Centre, the CNE, and the parks on the islands themselves. Having a full-scale commuter airport there makes as much sense as plopping one into the middle of Central Park in New York, at least from a quality of life perspective.
I am not in favour of bulldozing YTZ a la Meigs, and I don't have a problem with GA activity there - or even small-scale commercial operations such as the one being started by Mr. Deluce. Provided, that is, that he is prepared to make a go of it without requiring expansion and new infrastructure (ie. new runways or a bridge).
I will, however, oppose in any way I can any move that will detract from Torontonians' ability to enjoy their city while only benefiting a few.

I will wrap up my rant by saying how much I want a fast, efficient, and accessible rail link up to Pearson, which I believe would greatly reduce the need for commercial operations at Island.

I await your flames  

Amen - I as big an airline enthusiast as their is, but I love my city and this is detrimental. The business community isn't crying for it - they do want lower Pearson rents, so it's not like they don't follow aviation matter. I see this as Deluce looking to make money by threatening to launch an airline and then suing somebody when he is forced to abandon the plan. He did just that when the bridge was cancelled, and now he's doing it again. A brilliant ploy, but you can only do it so often before the courts get the gist that your claims are specious.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:30 am

Just out of curiosity... what's the runway length and other operational considerations at this airport?
 
smokescreen
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 14):
Amen - I as big an airline enthusiast as their is, but I love my city and this is detrimental. The business community isn't crying for it - they do want lower Pearson rents, so it's not like they don't follow aviation matter. I see this as Deluce looking to make money by threatening to launch an airline and then suing somebody when he is forced to abandon the plan. He did just that when the bridge was cancelled, and now he's doing it again. A brilliant ploy, but you can only do it so often before the courts get the gist that your claims are specious.

I don't know that much about Deluce or his business practices, although I was less than impressed with his histrionics over the bridge issue. I agree with you about the demand - numerous operators have tried and failed to run a viable operation out if YTZ. While they have in general blamed this on the lack of a fixed link (and doubtless Deluce will too if he fails), I think at this stage a bridge is a non-starter from a civics point of view, and a tunnel too costly for the benefits it would return.
Like I said, I think having some air traffic at Island adds colour and interest to the waterfront area (I have fond memories as a child of going there for quick sightseeing flights), but there is a limit.
 
Q400
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 13):

I agree that having a fast efficient link to Pearson could be a solution to many of the current problems.

However, by looking at the large number of condos (ugly looking ones in my humble opinion) being built around the waterfront over the last few years, it already destroyed the view around the waterfront area. I think that has a much more negative impact to the waterfront than expanding the City Centre Airport.

The bulk of the traffic in and out of the airport will be over Lake Ontario, rather than over the city so I'm not sure if I agree with the Central Park analogy. In addition, by watching the aircraft at the CNE airshow last year, the sideline noise from the Q400 is fairly low.

Therefore, I'm still having a lot of difficulties seeing a huge negative impact in using the Q400 from the City Centre Airport, aside from the additional traffic around the Lakeshore and Bathurst area to and from the airport. I do agree if they are using a much larger/older/noisier airplane.

Just my two cents!!
 
yow
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:12 am

Not surprisingly, Air Canada was quick to respond:

TORONTO, Feb. 2 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today welcomed the announcement
by the Toronto Port Authority (TPA) of improved access to the Toronto City
Centre Airport (TCCA).
The TPA today announced the construction of new Ferry Passenger Transfer
Facilities as well as the acquisition of a new ferry capable of carrying more
vehicles and passengers to TCCA.

"As Toronto City Center Airport's longest serving passenger airline, Air
Canada is pleased that the TPA has decided to improve access to the airport.
This decision will allow Air Canada, through its regional partner, Air Canada
Jazz, to re-instate flights previously cancelled due to the lack of demand
caused by inadequate access to the airport under the existing ferry service,"
said Ben Smith, Vice-President, Network Planning, Air Canada.

With the improved access to Toronto City Centre Airport, Air Canada will
pursue a substantial increase of frequencies between that airport and Ottawa
as well as the reinstatement of flights to and from Montreal. The carrier will
also examine the feasibility of additional flights between TCCA and other
regional destinations in Canada and the U.S.

It's gonna' be a war come this fall @ YTZ.

Air Canada will
pursue a substantial increase of frequencies between that airport and Ottawa,


I wonder if we'll see a return to the 10-12 frequencies a day they used to operate about a decade ago. I would hope this will also involve the re-instatement of weekend services to the Island.
 
flug
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:13 am

Has anyone seen the new colors for Porter Airlines? Has anything been posted yet? I checked Bombardiers website and it had news from yesterday.
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
Just out of curiosity... what's the runway length and other operational considerations at this airport?

YTZ's longest runway is 4,000 feet, so a Dash 8 is about the biggest thing it can handle.

Quoting Flug (Reply 19):
Has anyone seen the new colors for Porter Airlines? Has anything been posted yet? I checked Bombardiers website and it had news from yesterday.

They seem to have a website in the early stages of development:
 
yyzcabincrew
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:10 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:09 am

Here is the site for the airline...

http://www.flyporter.com

[Edited 2006-02-02 21:12:18]
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:41 am

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Q400 (Reply 17):
Therefore, I'm still having a lot of difficulties seeing a huge negative impact in using the Q400 from the City Centre Airport, aside from the additional traffic around the Lakeshore and Bathurst area to and from the airport. I do agree if they are using a much larger/older/noisier airplane.

Q400, I don't disagree with you, and I want to make clear that I don't have an issue with this proposed operation -as it stands now (especially with a new order for the DHC plant involved).
What I don't want is a situation that escalates - bridges being built, runways extended or added, RJ's taking off every 10 mins. This may well be an exaggeration of the potential problem, some may even call it fearmongering, but it is a fact of life that any viable commercial airport tends toward expansion.

Oh, and before anyone uses the term NIMBY, I'd like to add that I share the general disdain for people who move next to an airport and then complain about the noise. Please keep in mind, though, that the city centre was there before YTZ.

On another note, what do people think about Carty's involvement? I know he is not popular with many AA employees...
 
yow
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 22):
Please keep in mind, though, that the city centre was there before YTZ.

I fully agree Smokescreen, however, given the airfield opened in 1939, how many Torontonians that are living near the airport were actually born before the airport opened and can lay claim to being there before YTZ. Not too many I suspect.
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting YOW (Reply 23):
I fully agree Smokescreen, however, given the airfield opened in 1939, how many Torontonians that are living near the airport were actually born before the airport opened and can lay claim to being there before YTZ. Not too many I suspect.

Fair enough, but it is still a far cry from an airport in the middle of nowhere (ie. Malton) that has gradually been surrounded with tract housing.

Do you (or anyone else for that matter) think Porter Air can make a go of it given the situation with the ferry?
 
fallingeese
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:58 am

I certainly think it is a viable venture, especially with the significant amount of captial funding and the capabilities of the board.

The question is how much opposition will be faced? It is nice to see YTZ having a significant service level again, but is it sustainable? Those are the real questions to the success of Porter Air...
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
yow
Posts: 2125
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:46 am

I wonder how long it will take AC to implement this sudden interest in YTZ, i.e. if they'll do it before Porter can?

When is the new ferry supposed to enter into service?

How long before YTZ's tiny terminal facilities will need to be enlarged?
 
Olympus69
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:01 am

I doubt if AC has any real intention of inaugurating vastly increased service out of YTZ. I think it is just a ploy to increase opposition to Robert Luce's plans. If I recall correctly, they did something similar during the debate over the bridge. Jazz saying they would like to start jet service from YTZ.
Incidentally, how did they come up with the name 'Porter' for the new airline.
 
boac707
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:25 am

Coming at this from a legal point of view....I am not sure any of the residents that are complaining about the noise potential will have any legal grounds to stop this. I would only assume that there were noise provisions as a condition of purchase which would preclude any after the fact complaints being actioned. Also, the chicken and the egg debate would be used here also. The airport was in place, operating with Dash 8's long before the highrise condo's were built. Call it a "grandfather" clause or whatever, I have my doubts whether the Mayor or the residents can stop this.

Just don't let Miller near a bulldozer after dark.....
smokey classics to the end of time
 
Olympus69
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RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 22):
Oh, and before anyone uses the term NIMBY, I'd like to add that I share the general disdain for people who move next to an airport and then complain about the noise. Please keep in mind, though, that the city centre was there before YTZ

Every city in the world can say that. However there were no residential areas close to the airport when it was built. The condos along Queen's Quay and on the site of the former Maple Leaf Stadium came much later.
Many cities have busy airports close to downtown or other heavily built up areas. LCY is a prime example also LGA, BOS and SAN.
 
Olympus69
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:21 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting YOW (Reply 20):
YTZ's longest runway is 4,000 feet, so a Dash 8 is about the biggest thing it can handle.

Not so. I've just been reading an interesting article about LCY in the Jan-Feb issue of Airports of the World. London City is very comparable since its one runway is 3,935 feet in length. Apart from turboprops, some of the 13 Airlines flying there use Avro RJ-100s and ERJ-135s. Other jets certified for LCY include the ERJ 170/190 and the Fokker 70. The A318 has done some test flights. Corporate jets such as the Falcon 900 also use LCY.
I am not advocating the use of jets at YTZ - in fact I hope the current ban on these planes remains in force. Nevertheless there is no operational reason why they could not be used without any runway lengthening.
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:18 pm

You know what?

I hope this airline prospers, and prospers well..

The people in the City of Toronto (the councillors on City Council included) need to be handed a dose of freaking reality.

Toronto is a CITY. It's an ECONOMIC city. The City Council and all the people who walk around with their noses stuck up in the air, think that by limiting flights, or cars on the DVP, or making it impossible for delivery trucks to deliver, that people will still come to Toronto.

You know how many people I know who only go downtown if it's *absolutely* necessary? I'm one of them. I know TONS of people who'd rather go somewhere else, becuase toronto is Anti-everything.

I hope this airline fluorishes, and does SO well, that we can shove it down Toronto's throat that without successful infrastructure, they have NOTHING.

Limit the cars.. limit the airport traffic.. limit the deliveries downtown.. and when Toronto turns into Detroit, they'll be SCREAMING for us to come down.

Okay, so that was my rant.

This is a GREAT opportunity for people who work and live in downtown Toronto to fly to local feeder airports.. GREAT idea.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting Yyzcabincrew (Reply 21):
Here is the site for the airline...

http://www.flyporter.com

This site is a mere Flash placeholder. No facts, nothing really except the name "Porter" displayed in a fancy way. It won't show up as anything on search engines, and it offers the reader nothing to get him to come back. It just doest't work if the user's browser does not have Flash. It would have taken very little effort to produce an attractive HTML-only site with a whole bunch of easy to update information. This would be visible to everybody as well as easy to search and index.

I really like the Dash-8, and I like their idea. However, it is better to have no website at all than something almost no one can find - and would not want to come back or stay long if they did manage to stumble across it.

IN SHORT....That fake website is a very poor start to their marketing efforts.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Aeronut (Reply 4):
I missed the news tonight, is the bridge going to be built now



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
The bridge is effectively dead

I've found the site regarding about access to YTZ. Its on AC site.

Air Canada welcomes improved access to Toronto City Centre Airport

TORONTO, Feb. 2 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today welcomed the announcement by the Toronto Port Authority (TPA) of improved access to the Toronto City Centre Airport (TCCA).

The TPA today announced the construction of new Ferry Passenger Transfer Facilities as well as the acquisition of a new ferry capable of carrying more vehicles and passengers to TCCA. "As Toronto City Center Airport's longest serving passenger airline, Air Canada is pleased that the TPA has decided to improve access to the airport. This decision will allow Air Canada, through its regional partner, Air Canada Jazz, to re-instate flights previously cancelled due to the lack of demand caused by inadequate access to the airport under the existing ferry service," said Ben Smith, Vice-President, Network Planning, Air Canada.

With the improved access to Toronto City Centre Airport, Air Canada will
pursue a substantial increase of frequencies between that airport and Ottawa
as well as the reinstatement of flights to and from Montreal. The carrier will
also examine the feasibility of additional flights between TCCA and other
regional destinations in Canada and the U.S.

http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...ey=1402023362&view=13213-0&Start=0
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:41 am

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 29):
Every city in the world can say that. However there were no residential areas close to the airport when it was built. The condos along Queen's Quay and on the site of the former Maple Leaf Stadium came much later.

People who paid big money for those waterfront condos I'm sure will agree that there is a big difference between GA/business av use and full-fledged regional airline ops. I'm not crazy about all the condo development at the lakefront, but they beat run-down port facilities and are having a positive effect on the area - the Distillery District is a pretty good example of the renewal taking place.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 31):
You know how many people I know who only go downtown if it's *absolutely* necessary? I'm one of them.

I also know many people who avoid going into downtown Toronto (like the entire population of Milton for instance), and the chief reason is traffic. YTZ expansion will only exacerbate this problem - and I certainly don't see how it would entice you into town, as I doubt there will be service to Courtice.

Toronto has prospered nicely until now without regular air service from YTZ, and one way the citizens have tried to reward ourselves for this prosperity is by creating usable and attractive public spaces, and the waterfront has been a key one for decades. These spaces have made Toronto's downtown one of the most livable of any major city in North America, and have in no small way prevented the exodus to the suburbs that have devastated inner cities in Detroit and elsewhere. There has also been a positive effect on tourism, one that I doubt will be matched by Porter Air: people coming to Toronto for the weekend from Buffalo or London probably aren't going to fly.

Finally, the people of Toronto have made it quite clear that they do not want extensive commercial ops out of YTZ. It is arrogant of the Port Authority and Regco (and Jazz) to ignore these wishes, and if Deluce does not tread carefully his airline will fail before it starts.
 
boac707
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:55 am

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 34):
Finally, the people of Toronto have made it quite clear that they do not want extensive commercial ops out of YTZ. It is arrogant of the Port Authority and Regco (and Jazz) to ignore these wishes, and if Deluce does not tread carefully his airline will fail before it starts.

You may be right the some people in Toronto don't want the airport. But the fact is that the airport was there first. There is diddly they can do about that. Free enterprise does exist in this country, and generally speaking, who does what type of business and where is not controlled by the residents. The City has already found this out with the Docks bar, they are allowed to operate certain hours and all the complaining from the islanders about the noise can't change it.

There is nothing the City can do about this other than rattle their sabres and whine like spoiled little kids. If Deluce fails, will the residents still not get their way?
smokey classics to the end of time
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:41 am

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting BOAC707 (Reply 35):
You may be right the some people in Toronto don't want the airport. But the fact is that the airport was there first. There is diddly they can do about that. Free enterprise does exist in this country, and generally speaking, who does what type of business and where is not controlled by the residents. The City has already found this out with the Docks bar, they are allowed to operate certain hours and all the complaining from the islanders about the noise can't change it.

I do agree with you to a large extent, and as I have stated before I am personally not opposed to some commercial activity at YTZ. The main problem here for me as a Torontonian, rather than an airline buff, is that Regco and the TPA have done a bit of an end run around the usual process due to the city not having any say in the TPA.

To reuse your Docks example, if the owners of that required fairly major infrastructure upgrades to make their business plan feasible, then it would be reviewed by City Hall and input from neighbours would be heard. The same applies to any homeowner seeking to add on to a house - neighbours and other stakeholders are given a chance to voice concerns. In the case of the Island Airport, the elected officials of the city are shut out of the process, which instead is handled by an entirely unaccountable body (the TPA), and stakeholders in the area have not been given a chance to be heard.
 
Olympus69
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:21 pm

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 34):
Finally, the people of Toronto have made it quite clear that they do not want extensive commercial ops out of YTZ. It is arrogant of the Port Authority and Regco (and Jazz) to ignore these wishes, and if Deluce does not tread carefully his airline will fail before it starts.

The people of Toronto have done no such thing. In the last municipal election more people cast votes for mayoralty candidates favouring the bridge to the airport than voted for Miller - the only candidate opposing it. If it hadn't been for his misleading, fearmongering advertising, showing hordes of 737s flying in and out of YTZ he probably wouldn't have won.
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:41 am

RE: Regco Orders 10 Q400s...Gets Ready For Launch

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 37):
The people of Toronto have done no such thing. In the last municipal election more people cast votes for mayoralty candidates favouring the bridge to the airport than voted for Miller - the only candidate opposing it. If it hadn't been for his misleading, fearmongering advertising, showing hordes of 737s flying in and out of YTZ he probably wouldn't have won.

This is akin to saying our new federal government should be a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition because more people voted for centrist/left parties than for the Tories.
The fact remains that Miller made blocking airport expansion a major campaign issue, and he won. Olivia Chow just did the same thing in the federal election.

As for the hordes of 737's, God forbid that a political candidate would employ hyperbole in an election...

What it boils down to is the fact that decisions (and potentially major ones at that) about the future shape of Toronto are being made without consulting the elected city government.