ARGinLON
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Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:06 pm

Last night I went to the cinema to see a movie called Jarhead. I really enjoyed and think it was a really honest and brave war movie considering the current political climate.

Movie link http://www.uip.co.uk/jarhead/welcometothesuck.html

The film follows the story of this American soldier who is deployed to the Middle East in 1989 in the build up to the Gulf war. Political opinions aside (I don’t want to start an Iraq War debate) I have a couple of questions:

• When the main character is sent to Saudi Arabia, he flies on a TWA 747 (I guess a 744) that is clearly visible upon arrival. You can also see at least an extra three in the background (all TWA scheme) and one MD11 or DC10 (difficult to tell since is a far front view). My question comes about the paint scheme used and the a/c: I think the paint scheme is from the 70’s and I believe TWA never operated 744. Anybody seen the film?

• Military charters operated by airlines: We all know how lucrative this is but… Any idea on much an airline would charge for chartering a 747 all the way to Saudi? How often this happens?

Thanks!
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:15 pm

Most of the 747's operated by PA, NW, TW and UA at that time were in CRAF (Civilian Reserve Aircraft Fleet). I know at PA, we did the "Super Bin Mod" at MIA (to install the larger overhead bins capable of holding a duffel bag) and then sent the aircraft to Boeing ICT for the CRAF Mod (installing a main deck cargo door on the L/H side, aft of the wing and beefing up the floor).

We also did several trial conversions where the PA interior was stripped out and the aircraft was readied in Troop Transport configuration within 48 hours.

When Desert Shield (and subsequently Desert Storm) happened, several aircraft were pulled from each airlines' fleet and put into the CRAF program. Costs were covered but a profit was not made (as per agreement).

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kyair
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting ARGinLON (Thread starter):
My question comes about the paint scheme used and the a/c: I think the paint scheme is from the 70’s and I believe TWA never operated 744. Anybody seen the film?

Haven't seen the film, but TWA did not operate the 744. They operated 741, 742 and 74SP only. The color scheme was probably accurate for the time-frame however. The two red stripes (think of the Tylenol line from Airplane!  Smile ) on all white was the livery at the time and was from the '70s. The newer and last livery is from the mid '90s.
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darrenthe747
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:29 pm

i saw the movie... and incidently thought it was pretty good, but i noticed that mistake right off the bat. TWA never owned 744's.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting KYAir (Reply 2):
Haven't seen the film, but TWA did not operate the 744. They operated 741, 742 and 74SP only. The color scheme was probably accurate for the time-frame however. The two red stripes (think of the Tylenol line from Airplane! ) on all white was the livery at the time and was from the '70s. The newer and last livery is from the mid '90s.

I think the paint scheme on the link below is from the 70's...



Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 1):
Most of the 747's operated by PA, NW, TW and UA at that time were in CRAF (Civilian Reserve Aircraft Fleet). I know at PA, we did the "Super Bin Mod" at MIA (to install the larger overhead bins capable of holding a duffel bag) and then sent the aircraft to Boeing ICT for the CRAF Mod (installing a main deck cargo door on the L/H side, aft of the wing and beefing up the floor).

The film stated that over 500,000 soldiers were deployed to the Middle East. I know that a big part went from bases in different parts of the world but... how many charters flights may have used? A few hundred for sure...
 
tothestars
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:46 pm

At TWA during the 90's military charters we painted the entire plane white.
TWA-Airline To the Stars
 
deltagator
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:19 am

This topic was discussed a little while back in another thread but I don't have it handy right now. Do a search for it as there was a fair amount of discussion on it. One thing that looks like has changed was from the preview where they showed a 744 in the gray livery that wasn't introduced until the mid-90s when the war was over.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
bahadir
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:04 am

In trailers they show United 747 too. I think at the time there was no Star Alliance but you can see the *A logo on it. Also, it has the current color scheme of United, which was adopted in 1994.
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deltagator
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 7):
I think at the time there was no Star Alliance but you can see the *A logo on it.

Forgot that one. Star didn't exist then so another small mistake. There was an old DL L-1011 in the background missing the Widget. Something else I believe folks mentioned was how you could see mountains in the background but that from guys who had served over there they said you wouldn't have seen that.

As a side note you can see the same kind of mistake in the Clint Eastwood movie "Heartbreak Ridge" at the end where they return to Cherry Point in NC. You can see rugged desert mountains in the background when in fact Cherry Point is in the flat piney woods of eastern North Carolina.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Thread starter):
You can also see at least an extra three in the background (all TWA scheme) and one MD11 or DC10 (difficult to tell since is a far front view).

Have not seen the movie, however TWA never operated the DC10 or MD11.
They DID operate the L-1011. I would assume some were used for CRAF duty at that time.
 
Flyer732
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Thread starter):
Military charters operated by airlines: We all know how lucrative this is but… Any idea on much an airline would charge for chartering a 747 all the way to Saudi? How often this happens?

Saudi isn't used anymore, but it happens daily....several times.
World Airways, ATA, Omni, Miami Air, North American are the normal carriers, but you'll also see United, Delta, Continental, Northwest and sometimes American in the mix.
 
NW305
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:07 pm

I finally saw the movie last night while here on deployment to Turkey and the 747s in the movie featured 747s in TWA colors but it was a combination of the Double Globe Logo near the door and the 1975 stripe color for the fuselage. It looks like they filmed that portion in Marana or some other aircraft petting zoo. The movie was great by the way
 
jc2354
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:28 pm

Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 5):
At TWA during the 90's military charters we painted the entire plane white

ToTheStars, just out of curiosity, why were they painted white?
If not now, then when?
 
AirAmericaC46
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:46 pm

Anybody knows all the airlines? type of aircraft used----and routing? for military charters during the Desert Storm and the Vietnam War?
Thanks for the info.
 
Oykie
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:52 pm

i was so impressed with the movie getting TWA in I was pretty sure they managed to get the right planes in it.

The production is leasing three L-1011s, two 747s and one 767 from Southern California Aviation.

Universal Studios also brought in a pair of UH-1H helicopters and a C-123, which Clifford pointed out to the director was painted the wrong color and not used by the military after the Vietnam War.


You can read more about this scene here.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/2004/110312114876611.html
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vinniewinnie
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:58 am

I was actually quit impressed by the planes in the movie as well! Soo many of them it was just massive!

Forgot to post something but I'd really like to know about the logistics of the gulf war: How many planes? Where from? At what expense?... These are a few questions which came up to my mind after the film!

I highly recommend the film too by the way. U really feel like a jarhead at the end though...
 
flywithjohn
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:10 am

Well if you watched the preview for jahard when the DVD comes out you'll see a United 744 Jake Giel gets of a Delta L-4 why they changed this for the movie I got no idea. I found this interesting
Always Blue Sky's.....
 
roseflyer
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting KYAir (Reply 2):
The color scheme was probably accurate for the time-frame however.

It was not the correct TWA livery since it has the wrong logo.

The painting of the airplanes aren't really mistakes. When the preview came out they showed UA 744s and some DL Tristars I believe. However before the movie came out, they were able to use the TWA brand name. However they were not permitted to use the 1990 logo, so they used the double globe image from the 70s. These are all associated with trademarks adn licensing issues.

They fortunately were able to reimage the planes into a TWA scheme that was somewhat realistic. The 747s shown in the movie was actually a United 744 parked at Victorville I believe.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
tothestars
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Jc2354 (Reply 12):
Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 5):
At TWA during the 90's military charters we painted the entire plane white

ToTheStars, just out of curiosity, why were they painted white?

From what I remember the planes where painted totally white for security reasons. I believe that there was a small TWA next to or above the door.
TWA-Airline To the Stars
 
AA717driver
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:37 am

Since TWA was such a big target in the Middle East for terrorists they didn't want the 747's to attract such attention.

The L10's were used for the craf but weren't painted white. I think they must not have gone all the way to Saudi. I was a L10 FE at the time and could have bid on it. (I'd probably be divorced now if I had. But that's for another thread. I will say that TWA crews were permanently banned from the Rome Jolley Hotel... : D ) I did have friends who flew the CRAF on the 747. It was an experience they never will forget--especially the trips bringing the troops home.TC
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NW305
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:06 am

The vietnam military charter flights were operated by most US Carriers but a few did a large number. Braniff based several of there 707s at Travis AFB and routed them via Hickam AFB, Hawaii/Andersen AB, Guam/Clark AB, Philippines to TanSonnhut AB in Saigon and Danang AB. Flights were also sent to Taipei, Taiwan, Yokota AB near Tokyo and Bangkok, Thailand. Look at a Continental Timetable from 1968, it shows all of their contract routes for Military Airlift Command (Today's Air Mobility Command). Flights departed for Vietnam from
McChord AFB, WA, Norton AFB, CA, El Toro MCAS, CA to name a few. TWA flew a lot of personnel from California to Kadena AB, Okinawa (including my family in 1969/1971) during this time. Other carriers providing airlift for the govenment were FLying Tigers, Airlift International, Seaboard World, and Overseas National. For the war in Afghanistan and Iraq contract airliners either depart from the base where an entire unit is being moved or Baltimore/Washington IAP for the regular runs to Kuwait and Krygystan.
The contract airliners to my knowledge do not actually fly to Baghdad, instead they fly to Kuwait then the personnel are moved into Iraq.
 
NW305
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:15 am

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/Continental%20Compressed/*COmap6606.jpg

This is the Continental Route Map from 1966 showing their contract routes supporting the War in Vietnam and other Pacific Bases
 
Flyer732
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting NW305 (Reply 20):
For the war in Afghanistan and Iraq contract airliners either depart from the base where an entire unit is being moved or Baltimore/Washington IAP for the regular runs to Kuwait and Krygystan.
The contract airliners to my knowledge do not actually fly to Baghdad, instead they fly to Kuwait then the personnel are moved into Iraq.

Fairly accurate, but the BWI flights and flights from DFW and ATL are all R&R flights.

There are flights from BWI to both Kuwait and Bishkek.
ATL and DFW only go to Kuwait.

The contract airlines do not fly into Iraq, but World Airways has, a few years ago... but that was red cross supplies, not passengers.
 
AirAmericaC46
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RE: Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:44 pm

Thanks for the info NW305!

Anybody knows what airlines and type of aircraft used for the military charters to Bishkek?? What routing and refueling stops?