NWDC10
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Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:35 pm

Boeing 777-200LR is now certified for passengers. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11150751/ Robert NWDC10
 
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:38 pm

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q1/060202e_nr.html

Was just about the hit confirm to start a thread on this when I noticed this thread
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N79969
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:48 pm

By the end of this month, the A345 will no longer be the title holder. It will be interesting to see what will supplant the 772LR sometime down the road. In the meantime, the 772LR is going to ply some amazing distances.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:54 pm

Nice! Hopefully now some more orders to will start to fly into Seattle.
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BWIA 772
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:58 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 3):
Nice! Hopefully now some more orders to will start to fly into Seattle.

I am sure that in these orders you hope that one of the customers will be Singapore. BTW when will the first one be delivered to PIA.
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NWDC10
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:59 pm

(In distance wise) Today The Boeing 777-200LR-Tomorrow The Boeing 787. Congradulations Boeing. Robert NWDC10
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting N79969 (Reply 2):
In the meantime, the 772LR is going to ply some amazing distances.


I don't want to seem like a Airbus cheerleader, but it won't. Not in any scheduled service with anyone that's ordered it.

N
 
N79969
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
I don't want to seem like a Airbus cheerleader, but it won't. Not in any scheduled service with anyone that's ordered it.

Since you brought it up...you certainly are one of those.

Anyway, I would consider the longest routes currently operated by the A345 to be "amazing distances." What will be impressive is that the 772LR will make the trips with serious payloads.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 4):
BTW when will the first one be delivered to PIA.

For AP-BGY which is going to PK I believe its:

Rollout: 2/15
Delivery: is 2/24
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting N79969 (Reply 7):
Anyway, I would consider the longest routes currently operated by the A345 to be "amazing distances."

Well, wait till you see LHR SYD nonstop.

LHR-SYD on a 777-200LR is like SIN-EWR on an A340-500 (payload wise).
 
Aviator27
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:53 pm

Lets do some math on the B777LR:

Max Takeoff Weight = 768,000 lbs
Operating Empty Weight = 320,000 lbs (OEW)
Max Payload = 141,000 lbs
Max Zero Fuel Weight = 461,000 lbs (OEW+Payload with NO FUEL)
Max Fuel Capacity = 358,048 lbs (includes 3 Aux Tanks in Aft Cargo Hold)

Max Fuel + Max Payload + Operating Empty Weight = 819,048 lbs

That is 51,048 lbs over Max Takeoff Weight.

Conclusion: No way can B777LR takeoff with Max Payload and Max Fuel.

All numbers are from Boeing's Technical Documents.
 
Aviator27
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:07 pm

Lets do some more math on the A340-500:

Max Takeoff Weight = 837,800 lbs
Max Payload = 129,630 lbs
Max Zero Fuel Weight = 511,500 lbs
Max Fuel Capacity = 392,928 lbs

Max Fuel + Max Zero Fuel = 904,428 lbs

That is 66,628 lb over Max Takeoff Weight.

Conclusion: A340-500 also cannot takeoff with Max Payload and Max Fuel.

I lacked Airbus's figure for OEW.
Max Zero Fuel Weight is the limit for Operating Empty Weight + Payload.

All numbers are from Airbus' web site.
 
andessmf
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:12 pm

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 10):



Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 11):

Impressive, most impressive.

Hint: Star Wars V
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:51 pm

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 10):

That is 51,048 lbs over Max Takeoff Weight.

Conclusion: No way can B777LR takeoff with Max Payload and Max Fuel

even if your numbers are correct...

1) carriers such as PK and EK won't be using max configurations
2) neither would SQ nor QF if they decide to purchase it

3) it certainly beats in comparison with the A345, especially in the extra cargo and fuel burn...
"Up the Irons!"
 
cricket
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:24 pm

AI however has ordered the LR in max config so as to fly BOM/DEL-LAX/SFO non-stop. AI's fgirst 777-237LR arrives in February 2007, that will be the first demo of the LR's true capabilities.
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atmx2000
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 10):
Conclusion: No way can B777LR takeoff with Max Payload and Max Fuel.

Not sure what your point is here. No one is suggesting that it could.
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whitehatter
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:32 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 9):

Well, wait till you see LHR SYD nonstop.

will not happen with the current aircraft.

Cheerleaders can scream all they want but basic economics means that route is not feasible with the current 772LR or A345. Especially in a high-cost fuel environment which just makes it even less likely.
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jacobin777
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 16):
will not happen with the current aircraft.

Cheerleaders can scream all they want but basic economics means that route is not feasible with the current 772LR or A345. Especially in a high-cost fuel environment which just makes it even less likely.

c'mon mate..you know better than that...most here agree that the 777-200LR can fly with around 220-230 pax 9 months of the year on the "holy grail" route....this is what QF is deciding about..

the current A345 is waaaaaaaaaaaay out of the running.!
"Up the Irons!"
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:31 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
I don't want to seem like a Airbus cheerleader, but it won't. Not in any scheduled service with anyone that's ordered it.

EK and AC might beg to differ.

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 10):
Conclusion: No way can B777LR takeoff with Max Payload and Max Fuel.

Who claimed it could? Most planes can't. At MTOW, there's a curve that you plot along to show distance relating fuel to usable payload. But planes are generally designed to be profitable at many points on that curve. QF was looking to test the limits of profitability on the curve, and still hasn't come up with a viable point, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and won't be found as the 772LR enters service.

It might be that like the 773ER, a few more hundred miles can be tweaked out of the standard range chart. Or it might not be the case. Nobody will know until real world results are tabulated over time.
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Aircellist
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:58 am

I think Gigneil's observation is valid: up to now, nothing has been announced that would beat the A345's current record.

Does not mean that nothing will come, probably just not yet.
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AA777223
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:14 am

Does anyone know what routes PIA has planned for their new LRs?
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wagz
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 10):
Conclusion: No way can B777LR takeoff with Max Payload and Max Fuel.

Wow, considering most commercial aircraft (and even GA aircraft) in existance can't have both max fuel and max payload without busting MTOW, that's in no way special at all.

The point is that the 772LR can operate current long range routes with greater payload than the A345, and possibly new longer routes still with a decent payload.
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airbazar
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
I don't want to seem like a Airbus cheerleader, but it won't. Not in any scheduled service with anyone that's ordered it.

EK and AC might beg to differ.

Exactly which of EK's and AC's route will be longer than SIN-EWR?
There isn't a single route out of Dubai, or India, Pakistan, or Canada that is longer than SIN-EWR so unless SQ starts flying the aircraft you will not see the A345 record be broken any time soon. I suspect that LHR-SYD or YYZ-SYD will be the next "longest flight", possibly with a 772LR, possibly not, but it will not happen for another few years.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 20):
Does anyone know what routes PIA has planned for their new LRs?

most probably YYZ or IAH with ORD and JFK mentioned....but I think it will be YYZ and/or IAH as #1/#2
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DIJKKIJK
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 20):
Does anyone know what routes PIA has planned for their new LRs?

LHE-KHI-YYZ will be the first route.
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gmonney
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:05 am

The YYZ route is not shorty!... can't wait to see them here at YYZ... any idea of when PIA is going to cross the pond, I imagine right away? Since this is just a variation of the current model in the fleet?

Grant
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YULWinterSkies
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 19):
I think Gigneil's observation is valid: up to now, nothing has been announced that would beat the A345's current record.

Does not mean that nothing will come, probably just not yet.

Exactly. Breaking records might be sexy, but if there is no market to sustain the route, well... What if SIN-EWR were the world's longest sustainable route in today's environment? (excluding LHR-SYD which will be done only by the next generation of ultra-long-haulers IMO)
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don81603
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 22):
YYZ-SYD will be the next "longest flight",

According to the great circle mapper, ewr-sin is 8285nm. If the AC772LR's can make the jump from YYZ to SYD, the distance is 8397nm. 112 nm longer.
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AA777223
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:30 am

I think with steady improvements to the 777LRs engines and systems, it will eventually be capable of sustaining service from LHR to SYD. If it's already capable of handling the route 9 months out of the year, it can't be too far away from doing it year round....right? By the way, what does the range of the 777LR look like in comparison to the plans for the 788 and 789? Maybe we will have to wait for a ULR version of those to see the "Holy Grail" route operated profitably.
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aircanada014
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:44 pm

Its nice to see AC's name in the news on boeing site. Its going to be interesting to see AC will have 2 different a/c types offering the longest range in the world for a short while. AC will have 13 777-200LR and 2 A340-500.
Remember I said for a short while AC will operate two different types of long range a/c.
 
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garpd
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:23 pm

Isn't it possible that once in service, the 200LR will find its feet, just as the 300ER did. By that I mean once in service, the 300ER reliased a better fuel consumption and range ratio than originaly expected.

I'd say there is every possibility that actual commercial flights with the 200LR may just prove that it is capable of a viable LHR-SYD operation.

Its possible..
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UNDBoeingNut
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RE: Boeing 777-200LR Ready For Take-Off!

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:30 pm

is the 10,840 listed in the article a new number or is that an older one that is escaping the brain right now?
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