petmbro
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Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:47 pm

According to forbes:

Quote:
A judge on Thursday accepted a motion by Aloha Airlines to modify its reorganization plan, as well as an agreement worked out between the airline and the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.

With the rulings by U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Robert Faris, the airline is now expected to leave bankruptcy protection in mid-February, Aloha President David Banmiller said. The exact date hasn't been decided, he said.

Besides the official transfer of ownership, emerging from bankruptcy will also entail paying a debt of about $62 million to Goldman Sachs Credit Partners LP, Banmiller said.

Aloha's initial reorganization plan called for billionaire supermarket chain owner Ron Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. LLC and former pro football star Willie Gault and the owners of the airline, the Ching and Ing families, to recapitalize the company with a combination of $50 million in equity and up to $50 million in debt financing.

The new plan approved by Faris reworks the deal to $63 million in equity and $35 million in debt financing, Banmiller said. Yucaipa will fund an additional $10 million and some local investors will make a $2.2 million investment.

The company, which guarantees basic pension benefits, had opposed the airline's plan to terminate pensions, but a tentative agreement was worked out last month.

As stated in the initial reorganization plan, defined pension benefit plans covering pilots, mechanics and clerical workers will be terminated, Banmiller said. But under the agreement with the corporation, the defined pension benefit plan for dispatchers and schedulers represented by the Transport Workers Union will be carried forward by the new investors, he said.

Aloha Airgroup Inc. is one of Hawaii's biggest employers, with 3,600 workers. The airline filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2004.


It's great to see Aloha leaving bankruptcy. When I flew them last in 2001 they had a great product. I really enjoyed the flight and it made my vacation that much more enjoyable. Best of luck to everyone at Aloha
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:58 pm

So will they be getting rid of their 732's now? I reall am wanting to catch a last flight on a 732 when I head to Hawaii in June.

They seem like a nice airline and I'd like to try their mainland service sometime. If only we didn't have all those AA miles! Ugh!
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:07 pm

It is stated in their reorganization plan that they will continue to operate 732s for the next few years. They can go on for a few more years finding low-cycle models that were built in the late 80s and still have quite a bit of life left in them. Anyway, after the demise of the 717 I don't think there is another jet aircraft of suitable size for VERY short, VERY frequent flights.

Good Luck Aloha. Its good to see it all worked out in relatively short order.

Onward and upward!!!!

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:10 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 2):
It is stated in their reorganization plan that they will continue to operate 732s for the next few years. They can go on for a few more years finding low-cycle models that were built in the late 80s and still have quite a bit of life left in them.

It would be a shame if they get rid of those 732 now. Last year I spotted two Aloha 732s here at SJO coming for maintenance.

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 2):
Its good to see it all worked out in relatively short order.

I agree. It's always great to see an airline survive. I wish them the best.
 
777fan
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 2):
Anyway, after the demise of the 717 I don't think there is another jet aircraft of suitable size for VERY short, VERY frequent flights.

Can you say RJ or EMB?! Those 732s leave some pretty mean streaks across the blue island skies.
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
Can you say RJ or EMB?!

I think its been pretty well stated that RJs and EMBs just aren't economical on the super short (100 mile) stage lengths required for interisland flights.

The 732s are awesome.....I love them and count myself lucky that almost 100 of the 237 flights I have flown have been on 732s!!

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
MX757
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 2):
Anyway, after the demise of the 717 I don't think there is another jet aircraft of suitable size for VERY short, VERY frequent flights.

Can you say RJ or EMB?!

Or 737-500. They're the same size as the 737-200 (1 foot longer fuselage) and they have CFM-56's instead of JT8D's. CO would love to sell a few of there's.  dollarsign 
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 6):
Or 737-500. They're the same size as the 737-200 (1 foot longer fuselage) and they have CFM-56's instead of JT8D's. CO would love to sell a few of there's. dollarsign

Aloha's experience with the 733 and 734 (sister of the 735) in the early 90s showed that the engines just couldn't take all the cycles. Otherwise, I am sure they would have aquired 735s previously. It isn't really the size thats a problem with regard to finding a replacement--Its the lack of a suitable airframe with engines that can handle the abuse of HNL-OGG-HNL-LIH-HNL-OGG......all day long.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
MX757
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:30 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 7):
Aloha's experience with the 733 and 734 (sister of the 735) in the early 90s showed that the engines just couldn't take all the cycles.

Really, I didn't know that. They do more bounces in a day than say a typical WN 737?

Thanks for the info.  Smile
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
ha763
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:52 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 8):
Really, I didn't know that. They do more bounces in a day than say a typical WN 737?

It's not the amount of cycles, but the stage length. The CFMs are not designed for the ultra-shorthaul interisland market. The average WN stage length is 612 miles long and 1 hr 45 min long. Most interisland flights go to LIH and OGG, which are only 102 and 101 miles from HNL and are at most, 15-20 minutes of flight time.

And yes, an average AQ 732 does more cycles than the average WN 737. An AQ 732 averages around 10-12 cycles per day compared to WN's 7+ cycles.
 
MX757
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 9):
It's not the amount of cycles, but the stage length. The CFMs are not designed for the ultra-shorthaul interisland market. The average WN stage length is 612 miles long and 1 hr 45 min long. Most interisland flights go to LIH and OGG, which are only 102 and 101 miles from HNL and are at most, 15-20 minutes of flight time.

And yes, an average AQ 732 does more cycles than the average WN 737. An AQ 732 averages around 10-12 cycles per day compared to WN's 7+ cycles.

I never knew that, that is a lot of cycles. I always thought WN had everybody beat when it came to daily cycles on the FLUF.
Thanks again! Smile

Question: What about the 737-600 or -700 with CFM-56-7 engines? Would the new engine type perform better?
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:27 pm

Perhaps the E-195's would better suited for AQ in the future. Would those airplanes be too small for their operations?
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 10):
I never knew that, that is a lot of cycles. I always thought WN had everybody beat when it came to daily cycles on the FLUF.
Thanks again! 

Question: What about the 737-600 or -700 with CFM-56-7 engines? Would the new engine type perform better?

Not speaking of the airframe, but as to a new engine to handle the Hawaiian Island flying, Boeing would have to go back to the drawing board, Island flying is tough on any aircraft.... Which is why it takes Douglas built aircraft to handle it!  Smile
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ha763
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting MX757 (Reply 10):
Question: What about the 737-600 or -700 with CFM-56-7 engines? Would the new engine type perform better?

The NGs have the same problem. I've seen their -700s do interisland runs when they were short of aircraft or test runs after maintenance and they always ended up being delayed for maintenance after a few cycles.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
Perhaps the E-195's would better suited for AQ in the future. Would those airplanes be too small for their operations?

Passenger wise, the E195 would most likely be the best solution. For under belly cargo, I'm not sure, but it is just a little smaller volume wise to the 732.

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 12):
Not speaking of the airframe, but as to a new engine to handle the Hawaiian Island flying, Boeing would have to go back to the drawing board, Island flying is tough on any aircraft

Boeing doesn't need a new engine. The BR715 was built for this type of mission and performs quite well for Hawaiian on the 717. Hawaiian works their 717s hard flying around 12 cycles per day for almost 5 years now and they have the top on-time rate in the nation.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 12):
Which is why it takes Douglas built aircraft to handle it!

When did Douglas actually produce their last aircraft. Perhaps the words "designed" and "McDonnell-" should be used
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LAXintl
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:49 am

One issue with Aloha fleet replacement is what to do with the profitable nighttime cargo operation.
Five of Aloha's B737-200s are convertible that can be used in either passenger or cargo operations.

Accordingly Aloha was looking very closely to the BAe RJ-X project before it got shutdown as the type also was going to have a QC version.

I'm sure the entire economics of the airline will change significantly without the ability to source a type that would allow the successful cargo operation and its revenue stream to remain.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:54 am

What happened with AQ and YVR?? They seemed very gung-ho on YVR-HNL and YVR-OGG and slowly retrenched until full route suspension. Even with the US/CAD exchange rate, the actual fares were substantially higher than those out of competing US West Coast stations. I know there is quite a bit of competition ex YVR to Hawaii, but AQ had a great product.
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ha763
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 16):
What happened with AQ and YVR??

It was a money losing route.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 13):
Boeing doesn't need a new engine. The BR715 was built for this type of mission and performs quite well for Hawaiian on the 717. Hawaiian works their 717s hard flying around 12 cycles per day for almost 5 years now and they have the top on-time rate in the nation.

Are you suggesting a possible re-engining programme for older AQ aircraft or aircraft in general that do interisland hops in Hawaii?
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:04 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 13):
Boeing doesn't need a new engine. The BR715 was built for this type of mission and performs quite well for Hawaiian on the 717. Hawaiian works their 717s hard flying around 12 cycles per day for almost 5 years now and they have the top on-time rate in the nation.

Which aircraft are you suggesting that Boeing put the BR717 engine on? The BR715 was built for the 717, would not work for the aircraft in Aloha's fleet.
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MidnightMike
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 14):
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 12):Which is why it takes Douglas built aircraft to handle it!
When did Douglas actually produce their last aircraft. Perhaps the words "designed" and "McDonnell-" should be used

As long as that sign hangs over the 717 Plant, "Home of the DC Jet", the 717 will always be considered a Douglas Jet......
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ha763
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
Are you suggesting a possible re-engining programme for older AQ aircraft or aircraft in general that do interisland hops in Hawaii?

No, just that an engine exists that can take the punishment of interisland flying. AQ already asked Boeing about making a 737 with PW engines instead of CFMs, but was turned down.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:14 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 21):
No, just that an engine exists that can take the punishment of interisland flying. AQ already asked Boeing about making a 737 with PW engines instead of CFMs, but was turned down.

Thanks for the clarification. This leaves AQ with very few options in the end.
 
md90fan
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 21):
No, just that an engine exists that can take the punishment of interisland flying. AQ already asked Boeing about making a 737 with PW engines instead of CFMs, but was turned down.

And they orderd GE powered 752's. What happened to the PW 737?
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wedgetail737
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:19 am

Once AQ comes out of bankruptcy, could we see AQ expanding to the mainland and maybe the South Pacific again? Will they have the money to acquire more 737NG equipment for such service?

On another note, AQ could be the commercial launch customer for the 737-700C's. But the engines could be in question here also.
 
gigneil
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:26 am

Unfortunately, the right plane for the Hawaiian market is either the ATR72 or the Q400.

But just like all Americans, Hawaiians seem to be opposed to turboprop flight.

N
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:35 am

What about the F-100's? Are there too few? Are they too old? They can't be older than AQ's 737-200's.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:19 am

Actually, PW had approached Boeing with the PW6000, which is on the A318, but I think Boeing turned them down. This would have not been only for AQ, but the remaining 732 airframes worldwide.

AQ is mum on the replacement of the 732. We can only speculate, and throw in our 2¢.

What AQ might want to consider is the just-announced -700ER series, which could lead to further east-bound mainland flights like DEN, and LAS non-stop would be a cinch.
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wedgetail737
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RE: Aloha Air To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:48 am

Yeah...there are several US airlines that could benefit from a 737-700ER, like AQ, AS and FL. It will be interesting to see what comes out of announcing the 700ER.

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