Concorde001
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BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:56 pm

According to PPRUNE:

Quote:
BMED are to start flights from London Heathrow to Ankara in Turkey, and to Urumqi in China. Ankara daily non-stop, Urumqi schedule not yet published.

Can't find any info on flybmed.com or ba.com?
With an all shorthaul Airbus fleet, surely Urumqi will be one-stop? Some have mentioned via Ekaterinburg, which BMED already serves.
 
gkirk
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:58 pm

Would have thought it would have needed to be 2 stop unless they are getting an a.c such as a 757 or 767 which could do 1 stop?
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:03 pm

A319? LONG flight for a narrowbody.
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cedarjet
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:04 pm

Hang on, Urumqi is western China, right? Which makes it a lot closer to London that Beijing, Shanghai or Hong Kong. Urumqi via Ekaterinburg is like Boston via Reykjavik. If BMed are doing Tehran nonstop with A321s, they're able to do Urumqi via Ekaterinberg with A320s.
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Pe@rson
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:07 pm

LHR-URC non-stop would be about 3364 NM, so not much further than the range of the 320. So, it could easily do it with one-stop. The most obvious would be elsewhere in Russia, like Perm, adding about 10 NM to the route, or Novosibirsk, adding about 150 NM onto the route (LHR-OVB would be about 2813 NM, which might be too far), or, as aformentioned, Ekaterinburg. I don't whether there's sufficient demand from for service to PEE or OVB from London (including connecting passengers), but I would say that there probably is, particularly to OVB.
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BritPilot777
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 1):
Would have thought it would have needed to be 2 stop unless they are getting an a.c such as a 757 or 767 which could do 1 stop?

Probably wouldn't make much sense bringing in a 757 or 767, just complicate matters for BMED with Boeing aircraft in terms of maintenance etc.

Also LHR to SVX is about 2400 Miles, with SVX to URC about 1400 miles. So one stop would do it. Range on the A320 is about 2800 miles roughly I think, anyone correct me on that??

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noelg
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:14 pm

It would be good to finally get a decent direct service to some of the Russian cities east of SVO. To get to Perm, Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk etc you either have to go via Russia or Europe.

A non-stop service would be good for the business traveller, who at present would have a good day of travelling to get there, and would be able to do it in a 4-6 hour flight.

Cheers,
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AIR MALTA
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
According to PPRUNE:

Quote:
BMED are to start flights from London Heathrow to Ankara in Turkey, and to Urumqi in China. Ankara daily non-stop, Urumqi schedule not yet published.

Well the flights to Ankara start with Summer schedules. Strange that BA or BMED did not announce anything.

Schedules to Ankara look like this :

London - Ankara

1------ 15:00 20:55 320 BA6595
-2----- 16:15 22:10 321 BA6593
--3---7 19:00 00:55 320 BA6593
----5-- 21:00 02:55 320 BA6659
---4--- 21:05 03:00 320 BA6593
-----6- 21:25 03:20 320 BA6589

Ankara - London

-2----- 07:35 10:00 320 BA6596
-----6- 08:25 10:50 320 BA6660
------7 09:40 12:05 320 BA6594
--3---- 09:40 12:05 321 BA6590
1--4--- 11:25 13:50 320 BA6594
----5-- 13:25 15:50 320 BA6594

You can notice that the flight numbers are not the same every day and that ther flights stop long in Ankara. They may be preparing flights to Iraq or other places in the region.

[Edited 2006-02-03 14:33:54]
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acefreighter
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:34 pm

BA (BMED) already fly LHR to Ekaterinberg (SVX) three times a week with A320
 
by738
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting AceFreighter (Reply 8):
BA (BMED) already fly LHR to Ekaterinberg (SVX) three times a week with A320

As previously mentioned

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
Some have mentioned via Ekaterinburg, which BMED already serves
 
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LTU932
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 5):
Probably wouldn't make much sense bringing in a 757 or 767, just complicate matters for BMED with Boeing aircraft in terms of maintenance etc.

BMED could wet lease them from BA, so BA would be fully responsible for flight crew and MX. But as I said, they could, I'm not saying they will.

According to Airbus, the max range of an A320-200 is 3050 nm, so if they were to operate this flight, it would definitely be on a one stop routing both ways.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
A319? LONG flight for a narrowbody.

But not impossible for an A319. Airbus lists the max range of an A319 at 3700 nm. So, since LHR-URC is 3374 nm in distance, it would still be within range for an A319 to serve this destination nonstop.
 
Billy
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:32 am

URC is a long way off in BMed's planning. Traffic is weak, but growing.
 
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Vasu
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:58 am

On a side-note, I read on the B|Med website that all new aircraft since May 2005 have PTVs in Y... how many aircraft have them? And are they the same as normal WT or something different? Any pictures?
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:00 am

I think the different flight number for Ankara represent the fact that those flights will be continuing on elsewhere. BMED have a good policy of introducing new routes via another destination. Later on I'll spend time trying to work out what is afoot with the BMED schedules and post back....
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:24 am

Okay, checked ba.com and baa.com, and BMED is indeed to offer a daily service to Ankara (Esenboga). Nothing announced on ba.com or flybmed.com, though by checking the ba.com schedules you can see ESB is getting daily service, with all flights contuing elsewhere. Not yet on sale, hence why I guess no announcement, so guess the people at schedules have got these published ahead of that! Below is a summary of BMED's summer schedules, which seems to see another rejig to the one-stop flights, with more destinations being served daily.

BA6501 London Heathrow - Beirut _____5_
BA6502 Beirut - London Heathrow _____6_
BA6505 London Heathrow - Beirut 12_4_67
BA6505 Beirut - Amman 123_56_
BA6506 Amman - Beirut 123_5_7
BA6506 Beirut - London Heathrow 123_5_7
BA6509 London Heathrow - Beirut ____5__
BA6509 Beirut - Damascus _____6_
BA6510 Damascus - Beirut _____6_
BA6510 Beirut - London Heathrow _____6_
BA6517 London Heathrow - Beirut __3____
BA6517 Beirut - Addis Ababa __3____
BA6518 Addis Ababa - Beirut ___4___
BA6518 Beirut - London Heathrow ___4___
BA6521 London Heathrow - Amman __3_5__
BA6522 Amman - London Heathrow ___4_6_
BA6555 London Heathrow - Aleppo __3___7
BA6555 Aleppo - Damascus __3___7
BA6556 Damascus - Aleppo 1__4___
BA6556 Aleppo - London Heathrow 1__4___
BA6565 London Heathrow - Alexandria Borg el Arab 1__4_67
BA6565 Alexandria Borg el Arab - Addis Ababa _23_5_7
BA6566 Addis Ababa - Alexandria Borg el Arab 12_4_6_
BA6566 Alexandria Borg el Arab - London Heathrow 12__5_7
BA6581 London Heathrow - Yerevan _2_4_6_
BA6581 Yerevan - Tashkent __3_5_7
BA6582 Tashkent - Yerevan __3_5_7
BA6582 Yerevan - London Heathrow __3_5_7
BA6585 London Heathrow - Yerevan 1_3_5_7
BA6585 Yerevan - Bishkek 12_4_6_
BA6586 Bishkek - Yerevan 12_4_6_
BA6586 Yerevan - London Heathrow 12_4_6_
BA6589 London Heathrow - Ankara Esenboga _2_____
BA6589 Ankara Esenboga - Damascus __3____
BA6590 Damascus - Ankara Esenboga __3____
BA6590 Ankara Esenboga - London Heathrow __3____
BA6593 London Heathrow - Ankara Esenboga __34_67
BA6593 Ankara Esenboga - Khartoum 1__456_
BA6594 Khartoum - Ankara Esenboga 1__45_7
BA6594 Ankara Esenboga - London Heathrow 1__45_7
BA6595 London Heathrow - Ankara Esenboga 1______
BA6595 Ankara Esenboga - Khartoum 1______
BA6596 London Heathrow - Ankara Esenboga _2____
BA6596 Ankara Esenboga - Khartoum _2_____
BA6597 London Heathrow - Tbilisi _2_4_6_
BA6598 Tbilisi - London Heathrow __3_5_7
BA6613 London Heathrow - Baku 1234567
BA6614 Baku - London Heathrow 1234567
BA6633 London Heathrow - Tehran 1234567
BA6634 Tehran - London Heathrow 1234567
BA6641 London Heathrow - Yekaterinburg 1__4_6_
BA6641 Yekaterinburg - Almaty _2__5_7
BA6642 Almaty - Yekaterinburg _2__5_7
BA6642 Yekaterinburg - London Heathrow ƒô _2__5_7
BA6659 London Heathrow - Ankara Esenboga ____5__
BA6659 Ankara Esenboga - Aleppo _____6_
BA6660 Aleppo - Ankara Esenboga _____6_
BA6660 Ankara Esenboga - London Heathrow _____6_
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Humberside
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:11 am

I take if BMed do fly to Urumqi, it will be Urumqi's first service to Europe?
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whitehatter
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
BMED could wet lease them from BA, so BA would be fully responsible for flight crew and MX. But as I said, they could, I'm not saying they will.

won't happen.

The BMED issue is one of crewing, namely that using the A320 on medium to longhaul flights would be problematic within BA due to crewing contracts and other issues. The A320/BMED arrangement sidesteps a number of problems and still makes money for all concerned without causing friction or difficulty with other BA A320 fleet crews.
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pzurita1
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:31 pm

take if BMed do fly to Urumqi, it will be Urumqi's first service to Europe?
Not only to Europe, but appart from very unreliable flights to Kirguistan and Tadjikistan (they exist and the next day they don't anymore), the very first scheduled international flight from Urumqi.

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N79969
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting Noelg (Reply 6):
A non-stop service would be good for the business traveller, who at present would have a good day of travelling to get there, and would be able to do it in a 4-6 hour flight

I cannot imagine that many business travelers are going to Urumqi. Rather I think they would be mostly tourists wanting to visit Silk Road ruins. Also, I think a non-stop flight would last longer than 6 hours.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:34 am

Ummm - why ? Urumqi is a bit off the beaten track, even compared to some of Bmed's more esoteric destinations. Is there oil/gas in the area, it's the only reason I could imagine there being any traffic, apart from scabby backpackers.

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 17):
take if BMed do fly to Urumqi, it will be Urumqi's first service to Europe?

I don't think so - I seem to recall CA had a service to Europe (poss. Bucharest) that stopped there (or maybe it went to Sharjah).
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BBADXB
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:09 am

I am pretty sure that some Chinese Airline, possibly CZ, was flying, until recently (maybe they still do) to DXB (Dubai) from Urumqi.
 
neder99
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 17):

According to Amadeus, scheduled services run from Urumqi to the following international destinations (could be more):

Bishkek (China Southern and Kyrgyzstan Airlines)
Almaty (China Southern)
Baku (AZAL- Azerbaijan Airlines)
Islamabad (China Southern)
Novosibirsk (S7-Sibir/Siberia Airlines)

If I remember correctly there's something like a Free Economic Zone in Urumqi, along with precious metal mining industries in the area (which would fit within BMED's type of destination, ie Bishkek).
 
JoFMO
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:24 pm

Urumqi has some of the highest growth rates of all cities in China. The figueres are compareable with the ones in Shanghai or Shenzhen. Surelz thez are starting from a lower lewer, but nontheless, Urumqi is a boom region in China.
Most of its trade is with central Asia, the majority of people in the Urumqi province is not Chinese but of central Asien muslim heritage. Therefore strong ties are existing to neighbor countries.

But it's good to see the BMED is the first one to start Urumqi from Europe, I expect others to follow sooner than later. It seems provincial China starts to come into the focus of European carriers (KLM to Chengdu for example).

Urumqi could be a good destination for OS with it's focus east.
 
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LTU932
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:48 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 16):
won't happen.

The BMED issue is one of crewing, namely that using the A320 on medium to longhaul flights would be problematic within BA due to crewing contracts and other issues. The A320/BMED arrangement sidesteps a number of problems and still makes money for all concerned without causing friction or difficulty with other BA A320 fleet crews.

This is precisely why I said it could be a possibility, not that they will eventually do this.  Wink

Still, thanks for the insight. Let's see how this route performs, maybe something else will happen that will make them get other aircraft for longer routes.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:02 am

Although Ankara flights are shown on ba.com (Still only as stops to Khartoum, Aleppo and Damascus) but not yet for sale, there is nothing about Urumqi. As this was only a rumour maybe BMED are looking at this route as part of future expansion (They are taking several additional A321s in the next few years).

BMED and BA seem to have a good relationship to me. They get the benefit of the BA brand, Executive Club, LHR network (Feed to US included) while BA is able to offer service to destinations it wouldn't be able to with its own cost base. It's like the relationship with GT - many say GT could go it alone, and maybe it could, but the in the case of BA+GT and BA+KJ the whole is greater than the parts.
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gte439u
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 18):
I cannot imagine that many business travelers are going to Urumqi. Rather I think they would be mostly tourists wanting to visit Silk Road ruins. Also, I think a non-stop flight would last longer than 6 hours.

I've spent a good deal of time in URC, and it is actually a business travel destination more than a tourist destination. Xinjiang, the region of which URC is the capital, is rich in minerals and is a growing manufacturing center away from the 'high' cost cities of on China's east coast. Although, some tourists to travel directly to URC, the Silk Road is best experienced by travelling from Beijing or Xi'an. Thus, URC will likely cater to the growing business travel market to Western China.

Furthermore, if BA has fifth-freedom rights from Ankara, the fight could profit from the growing Turkish investment in Western China. The Uygur people are Turkic, and many look to Istanbul and not Shanghai as a cultural center.
 
CalAir
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:06 am

If BMed can make a profit on such a route with the A319 in principle, why dont other carriers fly UK to say EWR,JFK with the A319 from airports such as MAN or LPL?
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BAxMAN
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 26):
If BMed can make a profit on such a route with the A319 in principle, why dont other carriers fly UK to say EWR,JFK with the A319 from airports such as MAN or LPL?

Apples and oranges.

BMED fly on routes which the bare minimum of competition. Even on routes which have a good quality of opposition - such as ET to ADD and RJ to AMM - the BA brand will carry a lot more clout plus the destinations are big enough to sustain multiple carriers. I bet there's a fair number of people who would be reluctant to fly ET as they aren't sure whether there would be onboard catering. The opposition to routes on the KJ timetable such as Tbilisi, Baku, Yekaterinburg and Khartoum is, pretty much, non-existant - just like the opposition to Ankara will be.

And if you read the smashing KJ inflight magazine, Impressions, you will find a load of adverts for oil and mineral trade fares. These oily people will just about tolerate KJ's Old Club World seat and will only gently seethe at the prospect of waiting on the ground for 1hr in Yerevan or Alexandria as they wait for the final leg of their journey to get under way. However, tell the oily chap that he is flying HY or RB, and he will explode with rage. No FF benefits and the fear of flying a 3rd world carrier.

So no, KJ's model is not necessarily suited to destinations such as New York as these are already massively (over?) served by a variety of carriers offering a product to suit every taste.


Kabul must surely be on KJ's radar. I bet the crew wil love that!
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N79969
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting Gte439u (Reply 25):
I've spent a good deal of time in URC, and it is actually a business travel destination more than a tourist destination. Xinjiang, the region of which URC is the capital, is rich in minerals and is a growing manufacturing center away from the 'high' cost cities of on China's east coast. Although, some tourists to travel directly to URC, the Silk Road is best experienced by travelling from Beijing or Xi'an. Thus, URC will likely cater to the growing business travel market to Western China.

I guess that would explain all those downtown high rises in Urumqi. But I still have have a hard time seeing a flight BA's holiday airline attracting many business travelers from London. While Urumqi was non-existent during the Silk-Road era, there are a bunch of ruins within 2 hours of drive.
 
Elagabal
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
I don't think so - I seem to recall CA had a service to Europe (poss. Bucharest) that stopped there (or maybe it went to Sharjah).

IIRC, it wasn't a Chinese carrier, but rather TAROM that flew from OTP to BJS. (Time was, they provided an el cheapo service between China and Europe, prior to 9/11.) I'd be surprised to hear that a Chinese carrier actually operated dedicated scheduled flights into Romania - although, politics may well have served where economics didn't...

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 24):
Ankara flights are shown on ba.com (Still only as stops to Khartoum, Aleppo and Damascus)

Do BMed indeed have fifth-freedom rights on their operations from BEY, AMM and / or ESB (and I guess Borg-el-Arab, too)? ESB - ABB would be an exotic route.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting Gte439u (Reply 25):
Furthermore, if BA has fifth-freedom rights from Ankara, the fight could profit from the growing Turkish investment in Western China. The Uygur people are Turkic, and many look to Istanbul and not Shanghai as a cultural center.

Firstly, it is not BA but KJ (Operating in BA colours) that is sering ESB. Secondly, if you read the posts you'll see KJ isn't serving China yet. Some people have taken the thread starter as meaning it is ignoring the fact it came from PPRUNE. The ESB flights continue to Aleppo, Damascus and Khartoum, although unclear if 5th freedeom rights exist (KJ is usually quite good at exploiting these).
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Concorde001
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RE: BA (operated By BMED) To Fly To Urumqi - China

Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting N79969 (Reply 28):
But I still have have a hard time seeing a flight BA's holiday airline attracting many business travelers from London.

BMED is not a holiday airline - BA's other franchise carrier GB Airways is! BMED is primarily concerned with business passengers, especially those within the oil and gas industries.
You can have a look at their website for their routemap:

http://www.flybmed.com/destinations/destinations_hp.php

 Wink

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