gilesdavies
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Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

The British Goverment has announced this morning that the Gatwick Express non-stop train service to London Victoria is to be discontinued.

Gatwick Airport is about 27 miles from Central London and is considered as London's second airport after Heathrow and for many US carriers that cannot get access to the Heathrow airport market, they have no alterntive but to use Gatwick to access London.

Many of these airlines have express their fury at the possibility that the service could end as the train journey was only about 30 minutes to Central London and was compariable with travel time from Heathrow.

The reson for the non stop service being axed is that the Gatwck Express uses some of the busiest rail tracks in the country and takes up valuable space on this line and only benefits travellers to the airport and no one else.

Even though the rail service is highly profitable due to the premium fares being charged, but the trains run half empty, even during peak hours while commuter trains are packed with littler room for even standing passengers. This frees up space on the tracks for more commuter tains to run.

Gatwick will still have frequent rail services to London but airline passengers will have to share busy trains with commuters while carrying heavy bags and limited storage space for bags on these commuter trains. Making the rail service a far less attractive option.

Presently over 24% of passengers using Gatwick travel by rail and this is expected more people will resort to the already busy and congested roads around the airports.
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Gatwick will still have frequent rail services to London but airline passengers will have to share busy trains with commuters while carrying heavy bags and limited storage space for bags on these commuter trains. Making the rail service a far less attractive option

but are the fares going down LGW-city center?
how long would it take with all the stops?
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:11 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/4676388.stm

BTW... Who can justify fares about 20% higher than normal trains when this only represents only an extra two stops.

You can see that a huge proportion of passengers going to LGW already use the normal service since it only represents and extra two stops and cost GBP8 versus GBP12

I know this is annoying for passengers going to LGW but looking at the whole picture this makes total sense.
 
Coronado990
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:14 am

Makes no sense what-so-ever. Any link? Just sounds stupid. You cannot ignore 25% percent ridership at a busy airport like LGW. Maybe cut the headway if they are only half full but to stop the service all together makes no sense. What about non-rush hour times when people still need to get to the airport? Weekends? Or is it rush hour every minute of the day?
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 1):
but are the fares going down LGW-city center?
how long would it take with all the stops?

An Open Return Ticket on the Gatwick Express is £25 and £18 with the other train operators that operate on the same route.

The train time varies with other operators but you are looking at 40-55mins.
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 3):
Makes no sense what-so-ever. Any link? Just sounds stupid. You cannot ignore 25% percent ridership at a busy airport like LGW. Maybe cut the headway if they are only half full but to stop the service all together makes no sense. What about non-rush hour times when people still need to get to the airport? Weekends? Or is it rush hour every minute of the day?

You still have the normal service that uses new trains and only takes an extra 10 minutes.

The train will keep operating but it will continue to Brighton.
 
B747-4U3
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 3):
Makes no sense what-so-ever. Any link? Just sounds stupid. You cannot ignore 25% percent ridership at a busy airport like LGW. Maybe cut the headway if they are only half full but to stop the service all together makes no sense. What about non-rush hour times when people still need to get to the airport? Weekends? Or is it rush hour every minute of the day?

It actually makes a lot of sense. I use that section of railway every day, mostly at peak times and it irritates me that Gatwick Express trains run at such low capacity, when other trains are so full they have to leave people behind. Furthermore, the Gatwick Express service is very limited in that it only runs to Victoria station, and thus people who want to go to other parts of London will have to use the normal Southern or Thameslink services anyway. Indeed, I believe the Southern service from Gatwick airport only takes 5mins longer anyway and is more frequent and cheaper. The space that those Gatwick express trains take up could quite easily be used for more commuter trains.

I don't think that the suspension of this service will affect passengers at Gatwick as outside peak times most of the commuter services to Gatwick are empty. With the suspension of the Gatwick Express service, more 12 car trains could be used (instead of the 8 car Gatwick express) which would reduce overcrowding.
 
BCAL
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:31 am

See also the thread Gatwick Express (Train) To Be Axed... (by Atco2b Feb 3 2006 in Non Aviation)
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
A340600
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 6):
It actually makes a lot of sense. I use that section of railway every day, mostly at peak times and it irritates me that Gatwick Express trains run at such low capacity, when other trains are so full they have to leave people behind.

I do too and this does make a lot of sense. Does anyone know what will happen to the actual Gatwick Express coaches, will Southern get them?

The only thing that I think is bad is that the capacity for luggage stowing on Southern is very limited, this is something they need to increase if they're going to be taking a lot more LGW pax,

Sam Smile
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
N766UA
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:33 am

Well what the heck?! I was just on that train last month and it was packed both ways... not to mention CO must really enjoy all that ad space!
This Website Censors Me
 
N1120A
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 1):
but are the fares going down LGW-city center?
how long would it take with all the stops?



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 4):
The train time varies with other operators but you are looking at 40-55mins.

Actually, Southern's trains to Gatwick are often only 5-6 minutes longer than the Gatwick express.

This plan was announced quite a while ago, I guess they finally decided to make the final move. Honestly, this is a good thing because that corridor is insanely busy and the packed nature of the trains is getting to the point that it is dangerous.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
anstar
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:58 am

The current Gatwick Express takes 30 minutes. The new service will take 45-55 minutes.

The main issue I see is the poor pax getting on at LGW to a full train that has come from brighton with hardly any standing room!

I;ll just go back to using the car. You can usually get quite good deals on parking @ lgw.
 
airish
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 11):
The new service will take 45-55 minutes.

Where do you get that from the current Brighton service to London Victoria takes only 51 minutes off peak stopping only at East Corydon and Clapham Junction.

This idea to get rid of the Gatwick Express is great. I use the line when ever I have to go to London. Trains in rush hour are nearly always over crowed.

Lets just hope they keep the existing Gatwick Express rolling stock to run Brighton to London Victoria. That might ease the luggage problem.

Here is a link to the Brighton Main Line Route Utilisation Strategy http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ments/page/dft_railways_611106.pdf
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foxecho
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:24 am

Ugh Thameslink is gonna suck, packed wall to wall...might as well fly FR to LTN to get to my friends (in Luton proper) now....

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI
..uh, we'll need that to live......
 
anstar
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 4):
The train time varies with other operators but you are looking at 40-55mins.

Thats where  Smile
 
AEROFAN
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:32 am

this sucks - well i guess i will just have to make sure i fly into heathrow

isn't this further disadvantaging those carriers who cannot fly into heathrow.

i wonder if there will be a reduction on pax who now fly into gatwick?

when does the axe fall?

[Edited 2006-02-03 21:34:18]
 
HS748
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
The British Goverment has announced this morning that the Gatwick Express non-stop train service to London Victoria is to be discontinued.

Part of the UK government's drive to discourage people from coming here!

[Edited 2006-02-03 21:43:54]
 
IceTitan447
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
service could end as the train journey was only about 30 minutes to Central London and was comparable with travel time from Heathrow.

From LHR to LGW? what other options are there?

Just Bus?
 
trekster
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:56 am

Dont agree with this at all
Nor does BAA and half the people i work with.
I used this service when i got back from the US, nad it was pacekd full of overnight flyers that had just got into the UK, now, imagine this AND commuters as well, there is goin to be no room, and baggage will just be a nightmare.
CONGRATS UK GOVERMENT, U SCREWED THE TRAVELLER AGAIN
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Gman94
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:07 am

Makes no sense to me either. I've used the service to and from LGW and some times it has been relatively empty but at other times it's been packed. It sure is going to nice and fun when the peak time early morning transatlantic services hit the peak time early morning commuters.

Welcome to the UK.
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COSPN
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:29 am

Just another reason to open LHR to CO.and others..hope the Euros are working on that with the US govt...
 
Viggen
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:53 am

My use of the service depends, if I arrive on a weekend or outside of "Rush hour" (and anyone who's ever been on the tube will wonder when exactly it isn't rush hour) then I use the Southern service (same views of overpriced, tiny houses as the Express Smile ) and about 6 pound cheaper.

When I look at taking the tube from Heathrow T3 into Victoria station, all journey times in rush hour (9am in this case) are 50+ minutes, do it on a Saturday morning and that's jumps to 1 hour or more. It also means I have to walk to Heathrow Central (12 minutes), hop on a bus for a 40 minute ride to Earl's Court and then on the District line into Victoria (8 minutes). Heathrow is a huge pain in the arse.

If anyone wants to check, travel times on London Transport:

http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en

The advantage (IMHO) that LHR has over LGW is connections to other destinations, if your destination is Central London, go to LGW, get a bus, or a cab, or even the train. Yes, canceling the Gatwick Express sucks, but don't think getting to/from LHR with luggage in tow is a cakewalk.
 
IL96M
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
only benefits travellers to the airport and no one else

Not true. I personally know a number of people who use it regularly, park-and-ride into London from the Gatwick station using the Express.
 
r44flyer
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:50 am

I always thought that the only problem with the Gatwick Express was that it didn't stop at Clapham Junction. If it just had that one stop I'm sure that it would always be full because of the interchange with other lines.

Or is that just too simple!
 
DFW13L
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:02 am

Now EOS and MaxJet have an advantage! The train service from STN is equal to that of Gatwick, without the hassle.

But more seriously, I would rather fly AA and connect in DFW and then again in ORD or JFK to catch the Heathrow Express if I had to choose between that or nonstop DFW to Gatwick without the Gatwick Express. Maybe this is one reason that AA has discontinued this summer's 3rd DFW-LGW flight plus downgraded flight 78 from 777 to 767 and the RDU service has downgraded to 767. Surely this isn't the reason, but it could play a part.
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ba97
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:38 am

I would be interested in the split of business to vacation travel at LGW and use of the train. I fly monthly through Heathrow and use the Express. The fee has climbed year and year and business travellers still use it. Time is money and you could jack the fee up another 5 pounds and I would use it. At Heathow, vacation visitors are seen going to the tube in most cases. Paying 14 plus pounds for a 15 minute trip compared to the 1 hour haul on the tube is not worth it for many.

I used the Gatwick Express when I had to use LGW which was rare as the connections make Heathrow magnitudes better.
there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
 
eclipseflight7
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:58 pm

Couldn't they have all stops during the rush hours and Gatwick-Victoria the rest of the time? While you're buggered if its 6-9 AM or 5-7 PM, the rest of the time can still operate as it did previously.
Holy sh*ts and burritos.
 
EWRSTEW
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:06 pm

That is too bad that it is being discontinued..as a crew mwmber that has spent too many nights at a hotel near Gatwick it was always nice to take the train for free into London
 
N1120A
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 11):
The current Gatwick Express takes 30 minutes. The new service will take 45-55 minutes.

Um, what are you talking about? Existing limited stopping services to LGW (ones that stop at Clapham Junction, East Croydon or both) take 33-38 minutes, not 45-55 minutes. Additionally, Thameslink service already takes 29 minutes to London Bridge.

Quoting Icetitan447 (Reply 17):
From LHR to LGW? what other options are there?

Just Bus?

That was always the best option, because there is not a direct train. If you get to LGW on time, I suppose you could take a train to Reading and a bus from there, but the National Express bus is probably the best

Quoting Viggen (Reply 21):
When I look at taking the tube from Heathrow T3 into Victoria station, all journey times in rush hour (9am in this case) are 50+ minutes, do it on a Saturday morning and that's jumps to 1 hour or more. It also means I have to walk to Heathrow Central (12 minutes), hop on a bus for a 40 minute ride to Earl's Court and then on the District line into Victoria (8 minutes). Heathrow is a huge pain in the arse.

Um, you can get rid of that pain easily by taking Heathrow Express, which only takes 15 minutes to Paddington
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Pacific
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:54 pm

The easiest way to boost (standing) capacity is to get rid of the "cross" seats and stick "long" seats like they do on the tube.

Peak hour is hell on Southern but I've taken a train into Vicky from E.Croydon at 10am and it was bloody empty. Quite a dilemma for a train company - do they really need more rolling stock which would be needed only 4 hours a day?

Having used East Croydon many times, I see the Gatwick Express is quite empty during off-peak daytime.

You get these new trains now though - the old slamdoors are gone.
 
connector4you
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:03 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
airline passengers will have to share busy trains with commuters while carrying heavy bags and limited storage space for bags on these commuter trains

That should be a NO-NO due to current security concerns . . .  bomb 
 
ikramerica
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:30 pm

Sounds very socialist to me. The route is profitable, it helps bring tourist revenue to the city, but it isn't "fair" to the travelers who commute, pay less, and are more crowded.

One answer would be to cut the number of cars on the Gatwick express and add cars or trains to the other routes. But it isn't the socialist answer.

What may backfire is that by doing this, the British Government is making the gap between LHR and LGW that much more evident, and it really hurts in the new London-USA flying rights fight.

Airlines like CO and DL can rightfully claim that this is just a further move to hurt them in favor of BA, UA, AA and VS.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:57 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
Sounds very socialist to me. The route is profitable, it helps bring tourist revenue to the city, but it isn't "fair" to the travelers who commute, pay less, and are more crowded.

One answer would be to cut the number of cars on the Gatwick express and add cars or trains to the other routes. But it isn't the socialist answer.

What may backfire is that by doing this, the British Government is making the gap between LHR and LGW that much more evident, and it really hurts in the new London-USA flying rights fight.

Airlines like CO and DL can rightfully claim that this is just a further move to hurt them in favor of BA, UA, AA and VS.

The problem is that the Brighton Mainline is one of the busiest commuter routes in the world. There is no room for adding more trains, and therefore by reducing the number of cars on the Gatwick Express it won't make the problem any different as a 4 car train instead of an 8 car one will still use up the same amount of track (i.e. one won't be able to increase frequency).

Furthermore, I don't like your description of this a socialist. All that is happening is that at peak times the Gatwick Express trains are half full, and regular trains leave people behind because they are too full. As the line is full and frequency cannot be increased, one has to make best use of the resources, and therefore it makes sense to axe the Gatwick Express just as British Airways have axed numerous domestic routes from LHR as they do not make best use of the limited resources.

In addition to this, commuters pay less and travel on crowded trains not through choice. There is no Hassocks Express or Redhill Express. People have to travel on the commuter trains as there is no other option.
 
IceTitan447
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
That was always the best option, because there is not a direct train. If you get to LGW on time, I suppose you could take a train to Reading and a bus from there, but the National Express bus is probably the best

Once arriving into LHR on UAL, where do you pick up the National Express bus?
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 33):

Once arriving into LHR on UAL, where do you pick up the National Express bus?

It is in the Central Terminal Area where the underground station is.
 
motopolitico
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting Viggen (Reply 21):
When I look at taking the tube from Heathrow T3 into Victoria station, all journey times in rush hour (9am in this case) are 50+ minutes, do it on a Saturday morning and that's jumps to 1 hour or more. It also means I have to walk to Heathrow Central (12 minutes), hop on a bus for a 40 minute ride to Earl's Court and then on the District line into Victoria (8 minutes). Heathrow is a huge pain in the arse.

Uh, the Heathrow Express spanks all of those, getting you in to Paddington in 15 minutes. Carrying luggage, there is simply no better option, and I find it worth the price. If only the hotels in London would learn to accommodate the transatlantic redeye flyers by allowing earlier check-in times...

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Additionally, Thameslink service already takes 29 minutes to London Bridge.

Come on, London Bridge is only marginally useful for getting to Central London. You either have to change to get to Charing Cross or pass through the City to get to King's Cross.

Quoting Pacific (Reply 29):
You get these new trains now though - the old slamdoors are gone.

Gone??? Those and the Routemasters were what made public transit around London tolerable.

Honestly, though, I wish the New York City area airports had Gatwick's problem. I can fly into FRA, LHR, STN, LGW, LTN, CDG and scores of others and get a direct rail link to the city centre, but fly into EWR, JFK, or LGA and you get nothing but misery. A helicopter link would never be profitable for London. Why hasn't New York linked the airports into its mass transit network? That is the real question.
Garbage stinks; trash don't!
 
jfidler
Posts: 368
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:28 pm

I fly TLL-LGW-TLL twice a month, and I normally arrive into LGW during peak times (morning or evening rush), and depart during non-peak times (Sundays) so I can compare during both periods. I used to take the Gatwick Express, but shifted to Southern's service. It's only a few minutes slower (in some cases, only 5 minutes slower) and the trains run frequently. It's also cheaper -- 18 pounds return, compared to 25 pounds return on Gatwick Express.

During peak hours, the Southern service can get quite crowded, and not all trains have luggage storage space. One time I got stuck on a ThamesLink train (quite old trains), which was being operated for Southern (was this a replacement service for a train that had broken down?). I'm usually traveling light so the crowded trains aren't as much of an issue for me. It also seems like half the train gets on or off at East Croydon (is there something so great there that I'm missing?).

From a tourism perspective, I think the Gatwick Express is a great service because it's easy for the first-time user. Dedicated gates and signage at the station, separate ticket machines (plus the ability to purchase tickets on-board), and a comfortable service. I can see tourists becoming confused trying to figure out the various train companies, services, etc. For example, an American who is unfamiliar with the deregulated train service in the UK will probably be unsure if they need to look for a Southern ticket window to buy tickets on a Southern line train, etc since most train services in the US are operated by a single carrier (Amtrak) and when there is more than one carrier (commuter rails), you generally buy the ticket directly from the company that provides that rail service.

It would probably be interesting to see statistics on what percentage of Gatwick Express users are first-time users. Maybe most people have done this a lot (e.g. UK travellers returning from holiday) and the user-friendliness of the Gatwick Express isn't as important to them.

One thing I've always found confusing, and that's the pricing of Gatwick Express carnets. If my math is correct, it costs more per trip to buy a 10-pack carnet of Express class tickets, than to just buy normal Express Return tickets. With Heathrow and Stansted Express, the carnet option is always cheaper per trip (same with London Underground).
 
sonyericsson
Posts: 103
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:51 pm

does anybody have any information on from which date the gatwick express will be gone? for me very sad, got really used to it. even if it is a bit more expensive, it was a comfortble way getting into the city quickly with trains running every 15 minutes.
 
Door5Right
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RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:05 pm

The following is taken off the BAA Gatwick website:

WHAT’S IS HAPPENING TO THE GATWICK EXPRESS

03 February 2006
On Thursday 2 February the Department for Transport (DfT) issued a revised Route Utilisation Strategy (RUS) for the Brighton London mainline proposing a new strategy that could result in the Gatwick Express running broadly as it is today or being severely diminished. An earlier RUS, issued in 2004, had called for the Gatwick Express to be scrapped completely to make way for more commuter services from the south coast to London. The media has interpreted the DfT’s new document in contrasting ways. The Evening Standard of Thursday 2 February declared, “Gatwick Express saved from the scrap heap”, while Friday’s edition of The Times intoned, “Gatwick Express is axed to make room for more commuters”.
Confused? For the record, here is BAA’s interpretation.
Our view is that the DfT has listened to the arguments of BAA and others in favour of the Gatwick Express and there is now a very good chance to save the service. It won’t be identical to today’s version but it will be easily recognisable. Same livery, room for bulky luggage on board, passengers able to buy tickets on the train, no ticket barriers at either end and a very quick and efficient service. The differences would be that during peak periods some trains may go to and start from Three Bridges; trains would wait for shorter periods at Gatwick Airport station and some peak services would arrive at the platform to pick up passengers rather than be waiting in the station for them.
In BAA’s view this would still be a very good service for air passengers and would provide the necessary flexibility to allow more trains for commuters. But this outcome is not yet certain. There is a process of review underway at the DfT, and BAA and other interested stakeholders – airlines, businesses, passengers – need to keep advocating our case as a workable solution. If we keep doing this we think there is a very good chance of saving the Gatwick Express.
My soul is in the sky...
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
Sounds very socialist to me.

I'm sorry, but how on earth do you get 'socialist' out of stopping a particular train service????

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
Airlines like CO and DL can rightfully claim that this is just a further move to hurt them in favor of BA, UA, AA and VS.

Absolute twaddle!!

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 24):
But more seriously, I would rather fly AA and connect in DFW and then again in ORD or JFK to catch the Heathrow Express if I had to choose between that or nonstop DFW to Gatwick without the Gatwick Express.

Unbelievable!!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
That was always the best option, because there is not a direct train. If you get to LGW on time, I suppose you could take a train to Reading and a bus from there, but the National Express bus is probably the best

Why on earth would you take a train from Gatwick to READING, then a bus, simply to get to LHR? The obvious option surely would be a normal train to central London then the Heathrow Express (or normal train/tube).
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:49 am

London Bridge is only 5 minutes by Tube from Waterloo.
Personally I always felt Victoria was out in the sticks anyway.. bad tube connections from anywhere not on the Victoria line.

A Gatwick to Waterloo would be much better.. it arrives much more central and the connections are the best in London
Northern Line -- to the north (kings Cross / Paddington), Jubilee to Canary Wharf,
City line to Bank
Bakerloo line to Paddington / London Heathrow

This always to me seemed much more sensible.

In a few years the 4 Eurostar platforms come free, maybe someone will suggest using these for Gatwick trains, instead of converting it to a Shopping centre / flats as is currently suggested.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 40):
London Bridge is only 5 minutes by Tube from Waterloo.
Personally I always felt Victoria was out in the sticks anyway.. bad tube connections from anywhere not on the Victoria line.

A Gatwick to Waterloo would be much better.. it arrives much more central and the connections are the best in London
Northern Line -- to the north (kings Cross / Paddington), Jubilee to Canary Wharf,
City line to Bank
Bakerloo line to Paddington / London Heathrow

This always to me seemed much more sensible.

In a few years the 4 Eurostar platforms come free, maybe someone will suggest using these for Gatwick trains, instead of converting it to a Shopping centre / flats as is currently suggested.

I actually think it would be better to increase the Thameslink services that run to Kings Cross via London Bridge.

That way passengers from Gatwick would have decent connections with South Eastern and Southern services to the South Coast and South-East as well as services from Kings Cross (which will be the future home of the Eurostar.
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting IL96M (Reply 22):
I personally know a number of people who use it regularly, park-and-ride into London from the Gatwick station using the Express

Many friends used to park their cars at Gatwick and then take the Gatwick Express into Victoria. That was until BAA bumped up the price of short term parking, normally a minimum of £25 plus for 12-hours!

The problem on the London/Brighton line is mainly during the rush hours, when demand exceeds supply. Commuter trains are 120% full whilst the Gatwick Express is, at the most, 50% full so effectively they are wasting 470 seats on each train as there is no room for additional commuter services. I think the best solution is to limit non-stop Gatwick Express trains in the peak hours (just like express trains to/from Brighton are restricted in peak hours) but continue the service off peak.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
ozvirginuk
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:06 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
Airlines like CO and DL can rightfully claim that this is just a further move to hurt them in favor of BA, UA, AA and VS.

Don't forget that VS and BA also have alot of pax from LGW.

Before I moved to Sussex, I used to use the LGW express every day from Victoria down to LGW. It was always nearly empty. Now I live in Haywards Heath, and my partner has to use Southern services to London. He stands up for his whole journey almost every day (along with alot of other disgruntled commuters)

I think that perhaps the LGW express should be scaled down rather than axed, particularly as LGW does have some real peak times. Perhaps an hourly frequency during off peak and a half hourly frequency during peak would work better. This would allow more commuter services to be initiated.

Oz
 
L1011
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:02 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:55 am

When will the Gatwick Express be done away with? I just bought a first class ticket on it for this July. It came in the mail yesterday.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:26 am

That's really ashame-to me that made it just as attractive to fly nonstop ATL-LGW on DL. I guess it's AA ATL-ORD-LHR. I wonder what the time saving element would be. Probably not much.
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
A340600
Posts: 3893
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Connector4you (Reply 30):
That should be a NO-NO due to current security concerns . . .

Quite rediculous, the age we live in where everyone is obsessed with secuirty to the point of madness. How would a terrorist know which bag was going where, they don't want to blow up any plane they fancy.

Quoting Motopolitico (Reply 35):
Gone??? Those and the Routemasters were what made public transit around London tolerable.

You try travelling on the slam doors everyday as I used to do. They arrive at the station, stunk completely. Rust everywhere, doors that had a habit of opening when over bumpy rails and dust layers on the seats thick enough to be mistaken for dirty snow. The only thing I miss is being able to jump on them if running late and the train was just going, no more of that now!

Quoting Motopolitico (Reply 35):
A helicopter link would never be profitable for London.

There used to be one years ago, but for that reason, axed, shame really.

Quoting Door5Right (Reply 38):
The differences would be that during peak periods some trains may go to and start from Three Bridges

YES! Hopefully this will happen as the one extra stop means I coudld get it sometimes Smile

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 24):
But more seriously, I would rather fly AA and connect in DFW and then again in ORD or JFK to catch the Heathrow Express if I had to choose between that or nonstop DFW to Gatwick without the Gatwick Express

Are you insane?! With all the rediculous US connections etc

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 24):
Maybe this is one reason that AA has discontinued this summer's 3rd DFW-LGW flight plus downgraded flight 78 from 777 to 767 and the RDU service has downgraded to 767.

I Greatly doubt this was the reason.

One thing that really bugs me when i'm freezing my a** off at East Croydon waiting for a train is when the Gatwick express flows through pretty much empty, hopefully if they revise things I can see them soon filling up nicely,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3211
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:14 am

I can't believe people are so wound up over it being axed. Both Gatwick Express and Southern's fast services run the exact same route from Gatwick to London Victoria with the exception of platforms in Gatwick and Victoria, so if a Southern service departed Gatwick 2 minutes before the GEX, it would get there 2 minutes before. Very rarely do they take different paths between say Horley and Battersea Park (until they start branching off to their designated platforms)

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
One answer would be to cut the number of cars on the Gatwick express and add cars or trains to the other routes. But it isn't the socialist answer.

Apart from the fact that Gatwick Express use 460's, Southern use 377's and Thameslink 319's. And how would adding cars onto other trains help? The majority of trains that pass through Gatwick are 12 cars long. You can't add any more to that. And the 319's only run passenger services at 8 cars max. They only run 12 on ECS moves

Quoting IL96M (Reply 22):
Not true. I personally know a number of people who use it regularly, park-and-ride into London from the Gatwick station using the Express.

I can back you up on that, as my dad does that 3 or 4 times a week.

Quoting ANstar (Reply 11):
The new service will take 45-55 minutes.

The Horsham trains (that stop at 9 stops between London and Gatwick) only take about 45 minutes, and the majority stop at just East Croydon and Clapham Junction (if to Victoria). They only take around 40 minutes maximum.

Quoting Door5Right (Reply 38):
The differences would be that during peak periods some trains may go to and start from Three Bridges;

Not that many people actually get on at Three Bridges (in comparison to other big stations). Its mainly a connecting station for people going between Horsham/Crawley and Brighton/Eastbourne, or in some cases, Horsham/Crawley to St Albans/Luton. Also, Three Bridges only has 5 platforms. They couldn't terminate on 4 or 5 because so many trains fly through on what is currently the fastest stretch of track on the Brighton Mainline (goes up to 100mph just south of Three Bridges), and some of the Thameslinks stop there. 1,2 and 3 are shared between Bognor/Portsmouth trains and Horsham trains, as well as some of the Thameslink stoppers and the slow Brighton trains. To clear the platforms at Gatwick, all they would need to do is take them out to the sidings just south of Gatwick, then bring them in when they're needed. However, there is no platform shortage at Gatwick; Platform 6 is very rarely used.
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...

Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 34):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 33):

Once arriving into LHR on UAL, where do you pick up the National Express bus?

It is in the Central Terminal Area where the underground station is.

You know what, I said screw it. Bought my tickets on EI from LHR-ORK. It isn't worth the time to travel by Bus to LGW to take a flight Out of the same city.

Price on EI was cheaper than taking a bus and Ryan Air.

Wonder how EI service is? We'll see.
 Smile

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