quig
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Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:13 am

I am in the process of planning a trip to South America this fall and it struck me odd that the only non stop from Santiago to North America on LAN is to Miami. Their must be enough of a market for a daily non stop to Santiago and Lima from JFK. Is their any reason for this ? Can the 767 make it to SCL from JFK ?

While on the topic of LAN, are their any plans for them to fly from Cordoba to any city in North America?
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:38 am

Lan Chile and CO both flew nonstop from NY (EWR/JFK) to Santiago from about '99-'01, Lan with a 767-300 nonstop from JFK and CO with a nonstop DC-10-30 from EWR.

The routes do well with cargo but otherwise are not profitable nonstop from NY.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
PDPsol
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
The routes do well with cargo but otherwise are not profitable nonstop from NY.

Despite the fact this route was not profitable for LA in the past, LA should evaluate the JFK-SCL nonstop route again. Currently, there are no nonstops between JFK or EWR and SCL; New York pax need to transfer in MIA or LIM [LA does have a JFK-LIM nonstop]. Chile's market may not be as large as EZE or GRU, but it has grown tremendously over the years.

HOWEVER, the main reason hindering a re-launch of the JFK-SCL route could very well be a lack of aircraft! LA has only begun to receive the 25 767-316ER's it ordered in August 2005 and may simply not have enough equipment to operate this route. Also, one must keep in mind the start of 4M's flights to the US, EZE-MIA, which will require two 767-316ER's registered in Argentina under "LV".

As for potential loads and yields on the JFK-SCL, one would imagine they could be rather attractive given the business and leisure traffic between the city-pairs.
 
rwsea
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:09 am

I wonder if DL would consider this route. They're trying to build up a Latin American network out of JFK, and a SCL flight would fit in well with that strategy. Since DL can't add GIG/EZE due to existing traffic bilaterals, why not give SCL a try and establish a niche?

They seem to be doing well on the ATL route - the only consideration would be if this flight would cannibalize the other. If the O&D between NYC and Chile exists, I don't think it would a big deal.
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
I wonder if DL would consider this route.

Since LA and CO tried it (during better economic times) and AA has never shown interest what would be different about DL that would make them consider flying JFK-SCL.

If there was a market CO, LA and AA would be all over it.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
OB1504
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:50 am

From what I've read, the reason why there isn't a direct JFK-SCL flight is because there isn't enough demand, and for this reason, LA flies it via LIM. The same is true of their flight to Los Angeles.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
I wonder if DL would consider this route. They're trying to build up a Latin American network out of JFK, and a SCL flight would fit in well with that strategy. Since DL can't add GIG/EZE due to existing traffic bilaterals, why not give SCL a try and establish a niche?

I think they are better able to manage demand by keeping all of their SCL flying ex-ATL. This allows them to go to 10 flights weekly when demand warrants it. DL could not, IMHO, fly 14 weekly flights to SCL. There's not a heck of a lot of O&D in ATL, and a lot of the connecting traffic likely comes from the northeast. ATL allows more flexibility.
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LipeGIG
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
I wonder if DL would consider this route. They're trying to build up a Latin American network out of JFK, and a SCL flight would fit in well with that strategy. Since DL can't add GIG/EZE due to existing traffic bilaterals, why not give SCL a try and establish a niche?

They DL flight to GIG has been very successful, i don't expect they add a tag to SCL or EZE (only if they could run the flight with a 764). DL could receive the rights for a ATL-GIG-SCL flight as Brazil-US Billateral allows that.

As there is no non-stop service GIG-SCL, could be a smart move for DL.

Felipe
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aircanada014
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:51 pm

AC is doing well with YYZ to SCL using 767-300ER..
 
PDPsol
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 8):
AC is doing well with YYZ to SCL using 767-300ER..

Wow, yes, you are absolutely right! AC flies YYZ-SCL-EZE daily, quite a long flight for the 767-333ER and requiring two dedicated aircraft!

LA should absolutely reconsider restarting JFK-SCL nonstop service and should also evaluate initiating a JFK-EZE nonstop for its 4M affiliate in Argentina. However, AA would likely raise a fuss over direct competition on the JFK-SCL from a fellow member of the oneWorld alliance.

Whatever LA, AA and CO may have considered in the past when rejecting a nonstop route between New York and SCL, all of these carriers should absolutely reconsider the route.
 
Mason
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:28 am

I've flown the SCL-LAX route with LAN many times, via LIM of course. The flights out of SCL to LIM are at most 30% full, and in LIM, it always fills up nicely. I understand why LAN does not operate SCL-LAX non-stop, but I agree that JFK should go non stop. I'm surprised that CO has not re-started EWR-SCL with the 762.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:26 am

There is very little passenger demand between the US and Chile, for whatever reason. It doesn't make economic sense to fly to Santiago non-stop when you can make more money stopping in Ecuador or Peru. It isn't nessecarily that you can't make money on JFK-SCL, it more has to do with the fact you can make more money doing it JFK-GYE-SCL.
a.
 
Arcano
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Quig (Thread starter):
While on the topic of LAN, are their any plans for them to fly from Cordoba to any city in North America?

There is another post of LAN Argentina about LAN expanding COR network, althouth I remember to read about Europe mostly

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Lan Chile and CO both flew nonstop from NY (EWR/JFK) to Santiago from about '99-'01



Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Since LA and CO tried it (during better economic times)

Yes, but at the time there were less competition. We had no flights to ATL, and not sure when AA started DFW. 1998 was the worst year of the decade in terms of economy for Chile (about 1% contraction of GDP, if I remember correctly), and the economy truly recovery just started in 2003.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 2):
only begun to receive the 25 767-316ER's it ordered in August 2005

There are only 6 763, 3 of those for Cargo. The 25 order is for 318s and 319s, and remember there are 2 343s undelivered (and with no known date)

Quoting Mason (Reply 10):
I understand why LAN does not operate SCL-LAX non-stop

They've done sometimes

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
There is very little passenger demand between the US and Chile, for whatever reason. It doesn't make economic sense to fly to Santiago non-stop when you can make more money stopping in Ecuador or Peru. It isn't nessecarily that you can't make money on JFK-SCL, it more has to do with the fact you can make more money doing it JFK-GYE-SCL.

I don't think there is "very little" demand. Remember that Chile has only 16 million population, and the number of Chilean immigrants to USA must be one of the lowest of the region (if not the lowest), so you have to sustain the market only for holidays and 15 millions.

Of course it's annoying to stop for 1 hour in LIM when you go to New York (although the new terminal in LIM is gorgeous), but you keep airlines in balance and LAN do more money, after all that's their only inspiration.

Regards )( Arcano
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USADreamliner
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting Mason (Reply 10):
The flights out of SCL to LIM are at most 30% full, and in LIM, it always fills up nicely.

30%..? Is that enough percentage to be so cheerful?
I thought 70% was a better number.


USADreamliner  Wink
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Quig (Thread starter):

While on the topic of LAN, are their any plans for them to fly from Cordoba to any city in North America?

If they did, MIA is the only city that could support it. 2-3x weekly could probably work well, at least seasonally. The problem is that the low density, 3-class configuration of LAN's planes is less than ideal for such a route.

AA has been studying MIA-COR using their new wingletted 757s, though. The 757 is much better suited for the market.

[Edited 2006-02-06 04:06:13]
a.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
They DL flight to GIG has been very successful, i don't expect they add a tag to SCL or EZE (only if they could run the flight with a 764). DL could receive the rights for a ATL-GIG-SCL flight as Brazil-US Billateral allows that.

Correct. DL is doing extremely well in GIG.

Although DL could receive the rights for ATL-GIG-SCL I dont think they will operate it.

As there is no non-stop service GIG-SCL, could be a smart move for DL.

LA flies GIG-SCL nonstop A320.

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 8):
AC is doing well with YYZ to SCL using 767-300ER..

Correct, but the flight has a tag-on to EZE, which makes it possible. YYZ-SCL would not make it alone.

Quoting Mason (Reply 10):
I've flown the SCL-LAX route with LAN many times, via LIM of course. The flights out of SCL to LIM are at most 30% full, and in LIM, it always fills up nicely.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
If they did, MIA is the only city that could support it. 2-3x weekly could probably work well, at least seasonally. The problem is that the low density, 3-class configuration of LAN's planes is less than ideal for such a route.

Agree that there is no demand for JFK-SCL, and LA can only operate the direct service JFK-SCL via LIM, because LIM supports the demand for the flight. Without the LIM tag-on the flight would not be sustainable. I sure LA has already examined this carefully and realised there is no market there.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Why Doesn't LAN Fly JFK-SCl Non Stop?

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
LA flies GIG-SCL nonstop A320.

Hardi, in fact there are two daily flights GIG-GRU-SCL, the non stop GIG-SCL (with A319) is seasonal only. Also Varig runs some GIG-SCL seasonal services too.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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