UAL777UK
Topic Author
Posts: 2132
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:50 am

Are these guys for real....Will they really strike, surely if they did it would be suicide for NW.

Whose got some insight here?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060203/dcf034.html?.v=33
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:53 am

First off, Steenland - and the rest of the people running NW honestly believe the solution to their financial woes is to get rid of union labor in their airline. They are playing the dangerous game of trying to shove unilateral, management dictated work/pay/benefit conditions down pilots throats, assuming they'd rather swallow it than chance losing the job.

The pilot's union will most definately strike. NW has abused their employees for a long time, and recently it's just been rediculous.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
UAL777UK
Topic Author
Posts: 2132
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
The pilot's union will most definately strike. NW has abused their employees for a long time, and recently it's just been rediculous.

I hear many bad things about the mangement at NW..........come to think of it I hear bad things about a lot of airline management in the US but saying that, do the pilots really think striking will solve the problem or are you saying they will see NW collapse rather than get further screwed?
 
Whataboutme
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:21 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:00 am

I do think this would be the end of NW, but I also think the management wants them to strike. Management has their millions of dollars in their bank accounts, so why would they care if this airline fails or not. Maybe they have a few thousand outsource pilots waiting to take to the sky if the NW pilots walk.
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:07 am

I hope the pilots go on strike, and see NW be history...

I'd hate to see the employees of NW lose their jobs that's not in an Union...

It's time for some of the worst US legacy carriers be history, let the better run airlines rule the sky.
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:09 am

Oh come on! I think NW's executives care more about the success of the airline than that. If they didn't, they could just leave!

NW has had a history of very rough labor/management relationships. To blame the situation on one side or another is really not painting an accurate picture.

If the pilots do strike, I do think that it will be the end of NWA. I think the pilots know this, too. This is just posturing.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4897
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:16 am

Better run? Like Alaska and Southwest? Hmmmm.... I am not convinced.

I would prefer to see the poorly run airlines (whether or not that includes NW is surely to be contested by people on both sides) turn around and become well run profit-machines. Like Continental did a few years back.
I would love for all the managers to be stripped of their golden parachutes and thrown out. Then, bring in Gordo or someone like him who can earn the trust of the employees quickly. And turn that sucker around.

I think THAT'S the best option.
 
desiguy2447
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:01 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:49 am

unions cause so much harm to the American Corporations. In NWA's case if the pilots do strike come Feb 16th if no agreement is reached. I think President Bush will order the pilots back to work, and the president should. The pilots should not be allowed to strike, and destroy NWA and all the other employee's jobs.
 
UAL777UK
Topic Author
Posts: 2132
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RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
unions cause so much harm to the American Corporations. In NWA's case if the pilots do strike come Feb 16th if no agreement is reached. I think President Bush will order the pilots back to work, and the president should. The pilots should not be allowed to strike, and destroy NWA and all the other employee's jobs.

Do you honestly think so..I would not be so sure...besides NW isn't based in Texas!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
unions cause so much harm to the American Corporations. In NWA's case if the pilots do strike come Feb 16th if no agreement is reached. I think President Bush will order the pilots back to work, and the president should. The pilots should not be allowed to strike, and destroy NWA and all the other employee's jobs.

while I agree to a certain extent about the Union thing...there is no reason for the "lame-duck" president to order the pilots..

there is MORE than enough slack to cover if NW goes chapter 7.....that being said, I hope they make it.. yes 


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calpilot
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 1999 5:16 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:10 am

Almost every employee that works for NWA now is going to lose their job. (period)

This management has already pointed out that they intend to outsource ground workers, CSA, Res, and any other position thats not in a Hub airport.
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
, bring in Gordo or someone like him who can earn the trust of the employees quickly

I don't think there are too many like Gordon Bethune? A man in the industry and a good business sense. Maybe they should seek an oil executive.

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
think President Bush will order the pilots back to work, and the president should

He won't get involved, nor should he.

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
The pilots should not be allowed to strike, and destroy NWA and all the other employee's jobs.

What do you suggest? In addition to the 37% pay-cut, take another 37%. Extend their flying hours. Strip them and the flight attendants of their contracts. Outsource it all. Lose the jobs anyway? Your bulldog mouth is overloading your Chihuahua ass. Back up what you say with facts and suggestions.

M
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 8):
Do you honestly think so..I would not be so sure...besides NW isn't based in Texas!

Enron was and he didn't bail them out, so I agree, he won't do anything.

M
 
MattMSP767
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:23 am

I, personally, am 100% against unions but at the same time I still respect them. Now with that said...I have to side with the pilots here. Yes they are compensated very well but they have given management very generous pay and benefit cuts without putting up too much of a fight. If it is true that management is asking for huge cutbacks and in bad faith, then management will get what they deserve - CH. 7. It's a sad situation for everyone involved especially for the people who work have put so much into the company, financially and personally. I couldnt imagine what it would be like here at MSP if NW suddenly was gone.
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Jrlander (Reply 5):
Oh come on! I think NW's executives care more about the success of the airline than that. If they didn't, they could just leave!

Sure they could... but apparently they see more $$$$$ waiting for them to find a pretense to put in their pockets ...so they don't.
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:44 am

Well, I think there is a certain breaking point where people tend to say "enough is enough". With NW breaking their MX union and now really shoving some ridiculous amounts of cuts down the pilots throat (not like they haven't taken a big paycut already) it is really in their full rights to strike here. If NW goes away, so be it.
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 4):
I'd hate to see the employees of NW lose their jobs that's not in an Union...

They are losing their jobs via NEWCO, they are already go bye,bye. Example, in COS, USair is going to work their flights.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:20 am

I side w/the pilots, they have sacrificed enough. Chainsaw Steenland and his gang should take a 37% paycut, not the pilots. If only Anderson was still CEO, NW might still have hope to survive. I think NW will go Ch. 7 if the pilots strike....I at least hope they last through summer 06 because i have an award ticket from BOS-TUS using NW miles.(all the flights are on CO and DL though)
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 13):
I, personally, am 100% against unions but at the same time I still respect them. Now with that said...I have to side with the pilots here. Yes they are compensated very well but they have given management very generous pay and benefit cuts without putting up too much of a fight. If it is true that management is asking for huge cutbacks and in bad faith, then management will get what they deserve - CH. 7. It's a sad situation for everyone involved especially for the people who work have put so much into the company, financially and personally. I couldnt imagine what it would be like here at MSP if NW suddenly was gone.

You are just a poseur. If NWA lists a bunch of Pilot jobs in the Star Tribune and gets no resonse, then I agree they are underpaid. Obviously qualified Americans would line up for miles to get these pilot jobs. So by that definition they remain well compensated. And it happens to be the economic definition of overpaid.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:14 am

In some businesses, the unions are not helpful. At NW however, they are necessary. The people running NW at the moment are maverick, large risk taking corporate ideologues who aim to remove the issue of union labor, and the total expense of labor from their business model. And to you:

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
unions cause so much harm to the American Corporations. In NWA's case if the pilots do strike come Feb 16th if no agreement is reached. I think President Bush will order the pilots back to work, and the president should. The pilots should not be allowed to strike, and destroy NWA and all the other employee's jobs.

i'm not sure if you get it. the people running the airline are unscroupulous, without the power of thier union, and the power to strike, the employees, pilots, flight attendants, maintanance workers, reservations, everyone, would just be abused by this NW management. In years past, under Anderson and others, NW managements has been atleast fair. The new guard there has been fairly destructive towards the ends of their workers.

NW isn't going to disappear. They might grind to a halt for a little bit, it might hurt their business for a while, but in the long haul, what management is doing now is not a good solution, and ultimately won't work. If NW had followed the lead of AA, UA, and now what DL is doing, they might be in better shape. Those airlines managed to regroup with out sacraficing their employees.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 13):
I couldnt imagine what it would be like here at MSP if NW suddenly was gone.

I really hope NW makes it, I still have a free ticket to burn. Notwithstanding, I really feel that MSP, and for that matter DTW, would not sit empty too long. I think CO or DL would take over either MSP or DTW as hubs, or maybe even US could buy some of NW's assets at the MSP hub.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:34 am

My turn....I have been out-of-da-loop for about 15 days...a planet called Florida.

If the pilots walk, NW is out of business. Dougie wants the pilots to take the big cut and fly the yet to be named new RJ's, but will form NEWCO if they do not play ball and outsource most the company.
Now I am NW Gold, I am really having second thoughts about booking and building more miles with them.I am not convinced they will be around the end of the year. NW has said they will liquidated IF they don't get the labor concessions.
Now, I just booked a MCI trip with United. After I read the editorial in the Feb 2 USA TODAY about UAL and their top brass benefits of chapter 11, I almost did not book with them....but ending up taking their flights and price.
I have to book a couple of flights next week for the future and am stumped on who to spend my $$$$$ with. Shall I continue with NW or start a new "romance" with another carrier.
 boxedin  safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 4):
let the better run airlines rule the sky.

The better run airlines have no unions, so I agree.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
I would love for all the managers to be stripped of their golden parachutes and thrown out. Then, bring in Gordo or someone like him who can earn the trust of the employees quickly.

If you think Gordon Bethune didn't make MANY millions turning CO around, you
're nuts.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 12):
Enron was and he didn't bail them out,

The president of the United States is not a god. There was nothing he could do to fix Enron.

Morons that strike when they should be happy to have a job is something he can fix.

N
 
CO767FA
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:45 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
unions cause so much harm to the American Corporations.

It is early in the year, but this gets my vote for "Most Stupid" comment
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22):
The president of the United States is not a god. There was nothing he could do to fix Enron.

Morons that strike when they should be happy to have a job is something he can fix

It wouldn't cost anymore to replace the employees retirement accounts than it will to "fix" NW.

Besides, putting more money in NW will just give them something to waste. They have to go through this to learn how to economically run an airline or lose it all. Sink or swim.

M

[Edited 2006-02-04 01:41:24]
 
MattMSP767
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 18):
Obviously qualified Americans would line up for miles to get these pilot jobs

What are you smoking? If the pilots were to go on strike they would not have time to recruit any other pilots. The airline would be six feet under. Get a clue.
 
nwab787techops
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:57 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:44 am

They need to suck it up!

It's not just NWA thats in the woods or have been. UAL just got out and are going to fly high soon. Just like CO did. Even LCC like I-fly "R.I.P" and now Jetblue is not a big money maker as before. The day will come soon for Southwest,with no more fat USair to eat and they will have to pay like everone at the pump. And there saving grace is ATA.?.

As for the strike, I don't think Nwa pilots are going to do it. They are all older guys who are about to there last flight at 60 anyways. And there is not a lot of airlines looking for a 59 1/2 year old dc9 pilot, looking to be payed $100 plus an hour.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 21):
Shall I continue with NW or start a new "romance" with another carrier.

I felt the same way, I have flown NW eclusively for 8 years, but my next trip is on AA in two weeks. I am so glad I made that choice with talks of a pilot strike potentially looming. I really like NW and have never had bad service on them, they have always got me to my destinations on time and I like all of their hub airport facilties (DTW/MSP/MEM). Its really a shame to see how far things have fallen for them. I really hope they can pull out of this mess.
 
B6FAN
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:45 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:50 am

they should go on strike and finish the airline period.
JetBlue Airways...
 
HunUtazo
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:17 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:52 am

...they're gonna be merged into amr,


after,



...ual is merged into cal.
dude
 
N908AW
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:05 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 26):
And there saving grace is ATA.?.

Are you insane? It's the other way around. ATA would not have survived without WN.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:00 am

if any NW merger happens, US/HP would be the best fit. NW in the midwest and US/HP in the west/east. Also, the fleet would complement each other nicely.
 
nwab787techops
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:57 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting N908AW (Reply 30):

Are you insane? It's the other way around. ATA would not have survived without WN.











Why do you think put money in ATA? Becouse Southwest was feeling sorry for them and was going to help them out being the good buddy. RIGHT!!

And I'm insane?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 29):
...they're gonna be merged into amr,


after,



...ual is merged into cal.

Seriously, you need to just stop posting.

You write random speculation with no argument, no sources, no logic, and no analysis.

There is enough bullshit posted here already without your pointless babble.

UAL is 5 times the size of CAL, and is now out of bankruptcy. If it were going to happen, it would have happened before that.

AMR has no need nor interest in Northwest. None. At all.

N
 
malaysia
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:15 am

Unions can Hurt or Help, but in genenral without Unions, If we never had unions our living condition in the USA probably would be like Thailand today, with low wages and no benefits.

But unions are really vestiges of another Era for the Airline industry.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
Indy
Posts: 3938
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:31 am

I really can't blame this all on management. I think there are 2 sides involved in this mess. Management knows they need to cut costs to survive. But basically telling the pilots that its my way or the high way when you are in a time of need is the wrong approach. Likewise having been part of a union shop in the past I cannot expect the union is bargaining in good faith either. And you don't save your life by jumping off a cliff. Why does this seem more like a divorce and less like a bargaining session?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22):
The better run airlines have no unions, so I agree.

Would you consider WN a "better run" airline? I would. But they have their own unions.. How do you explain that?

Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 26):
They need to suck it up!

You obviously don't have a clue as to what the real issues are. They have already taken a 39% pay cut as well as other give backs. Take a look at www.nwaalpa.org if you want to get a clue. Otherwise, I'd suggest you enjoy your shortlived employment at NWA!
Fly fast, live slow
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 36):
Would you consider WN a "better run" airline? I would. But they have their own unions.. How do you explain that?

Southwest is an exception... and yes they are better run.

Do they even have labor unions in Singapore?  Smile

N
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18180
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Thread starter):
Will they really strike,

I don't think they have the cajones to strike.

So far, all the airline labor unions have allowed management to do exactly what they want, with just a few sqeaks of protest.

How many people here screamed about the stupidity of the United f/a's if they went on strike? The United f/a's made a lot of noise, but in the end, they just sucked it up, like everyone else.

It's sad, really.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:55 pm

I fully support the idea behind unions, and believe it should always remain an important part of American business.

However, the problem these days is that union management has become just as corrupted as corporate management, so either way the employees are screwed.

I usually don't support a union bringing down a company, however in this case, I have to side with the pilots. NWA has made it clear they have no intent of keeping unions around, and frankly they way they're going after the employees makes what UA did look like nothing.

If NW management has it's way, the NWA name will be nothing but a shell. The airline's already dead.
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
Do they even have labor unions in Singapore?

Surprise.....YES!  bigthumbsup 

[Edited 2006-02-04 05:13:00]
Fly fast, live slow
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:20 pm

So maybe the real question is, if the pilots buckle under to NW management, how much of a bonus will the NW exec's think they deserve when they come out of bankruptcy? And, will the NW pilots have a retirement left when they exit bankruptcy. Doesn't sound nice, I know, but after what's transpired at UA I think these are legit questions.
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
Jano
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 41):
And, will the NW pilots have a retirement left when they exit bankruptcy.

NW and the pilots just agreed (not too long ago) to have the pilots' defined benefits retirement plan freezed and start a defined contribution plan.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
goboeing
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

Let's Get Some Things Straight

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:52 pm

A lot of you folks are talking the talk here but you don't walk the walk, or in this case, fly the line.

I am a pilot myself, though not yet for an airline. But I've flown in the cockpit jumpseat with roughly 5 percent of the Northwest Airlines seniority list.

A while back I read a post that reminded me of something I read in Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith that I read in a high school economics class. The book is great and is well known and one part of it talks about employee pay and how to determine what a worker bee ought to earn. Here are the points I remember, and this is most of them:

Probability of a Successful Job Search
Airlines are competitive. Very competitive. Rumor has it that FedEx currently has 40,000 (forty thousand) pilot applications on file. The only way to get hired there fast is with three FedEx pilots who sponsor you for the job and recommend you for it. The rest of the major airlines are similar; interviews can be three days long and your background, medical condition, knowledge, people skills, and more are all evaluated.

Costs of Training Required
First get a four year college degree. Then, Pay for your ratings the civilian way (scholarships can be found but it's still expensive) OR fly in the military. The pilots that are in the cockpit for your flights that go into the trip report section of this website are probably more highly trained and proficient than you are. Probably in the top ten percent in the nation in this category. In addition to having to show up at the job interview with experience as a pilot in command in another operation (regional airline, military, or a few others) they'll have to demonstrate annually throughout their time at NWA or their respective airline that they are still qualified, still safe, still good enough to keep on flying for them.

Desirability of the Job
Everyone thinks of the 36 hour layovers in Hong Kong, Paris, Hawaii, and others but they are few and far between. How about being in Duluth at the Motel 6 with no internet on Christmas day? Or laying on a bed a mile from LAX at 4PM wishing the maid would stop vacuuming outside your door so you could get maybe five hours asleep before your redeye flight, all this while your kid's high school graduation ceremony is going on 3,000 miles away. Point is, a lot of the glamour in the job that the public sees does not exist. Besides the love of flying, there is much to the job to be disliked.

Responsibility of the Job
This one's right at the top. Eight hundred thousand pounds of airplane, fuel, cargo, and a few hundred people meeting the pavement at 180MPH is not a cubicle 9-5 job. And to take a line from Bob Buck, does a surgeon even pay the ultimate price when he makes a critical mistake? Sure, a life is directly effected by the decisions of those in the medical or law professions, but an airhead pilot can not only jeopardize the 396 pax and 14 FAs on his or her -400ER, but also jeopardize their own life.


As for the argument about pilot unions, they are a result of management actions. Airlines started up decades ago and pilots were well paid but that started to change. The airlines started to use the pilots in ways that were unfair. What good is a decent hourly pay when you fly a three hour flight, have a three day layover, and fly three hours back, getting paid for six hours of work but being gone for more than half a week? Overpaid prima donnas my @$$. Safety also took a turn for the worse and so the pilots formed unions. They were unable to trust their management to make decisions based on safety and fairness.



* * *



I will now submit to you, via pasting into this thread, a diatribe written by a pilot for a major airline about why airline pilots earn EVERY PENNY they receive.



Subject: Why Airline Pilots Should make $200,000 (or more)


The airline business is an equal opportunity career field. Airlines, including Delta, American, United, and Northwest are hiring loads of pilots right now. You, too, can find yourself in the cockpit of a 767, 727, A-300 or any other commercial aircraft out there in the skies. The airlines hire regardless of race, religion, age or sex. They are literally the epitome of the equal opportunity employer. All it takes is enough intelligence to obtain an application, fill it out and send it back to personnel for consideration. That's it!! Then you may be offered an entry level position as a pilot with any of the airlines, at a starting pay of $25,000 - 28,000 per year. Congratulations.....You're on the start of your flying career.......Or are you????

Let's see, the current qualification requirements, to even be called in for
an interview, are as follows: 4 year college degree (no problem, if you have a home computer in order to participate in this cyber dribble, then you've got that); physically able to pass an FAA Class 1 exam (assuming that you don’t spend all of your time sitting on your brains at the computer, then maybe you’ll be able to pass.); and oh yeah, you've got to have completed the Flight Engineer written exam, have multi-engine, commercial / instrument ratings and it wouldn't hurt to have the Airline Transport Rating (typed in something larger than your Lazy Boy recliner). Generally speaking, the current averages of new hire pilots at the airlines are: 3,300 hours total flying time, 2,700 hours multi-engine/turbo, with 1,200 hours pilot-in-command. (Sorry, sitting on your sofa, eating pizza and surfing the channels with your TV remote doesn’t count as a single minute of Instrument time!)

What??? You don't have the minimum qualifications to even be called in for
an interview???!!! Well get off your lazy can and go get qualified. Remember, age is not a factor. You can be 60 years old and still get hired as a Flight Engineer - sorry the federal government says you can't fly past age 60, but you can be a plumber. Over 95 percent of the pilots at Delta Air Lines have military backgrounds. That's all you have to do.....join the military, go to pilot training and spend 9 years on active duty flying airplanes. You'll be able to build the hours of experience necessary to qualify for the airlines, get paid while you’re doing it and get to see the world at the same time.

What???? Can't get selected to go to pilot training because of the incredibly stringent requirements to get through the door???!!! Oh, don't want to PAY THE PRICE of having to serve your country, subject to the needs of the service and move every 2-3 years. Even then, you don't know whether or not the airlines will be hiring when you finally gain enough experience and complete your contract with Uncle Sam!

Just what are those high entrance standards? Let's see. For every pilot slot there are approximately 50 who apply. From those selected, they enter a flight screening (aka washout) program that eliminates half of the group. From there you go on to Undergraduate Pilot Training (for the Air Force, the Navy has a similar program under a different name) for an entire year. Work hard, because only two out of three that enter graduate. Let's do some quick math. You are in a room with a group of people who all want to become military pilots. In fact, there are 150 of you. Guess what? Two years later only one of you will get to walk across a stage and get your wings pinned on. Ouch.

Then you get to hit the operational side. Whoa, first you've got to get through RTU (Training unit, about a 5% washout rate here). Now, you are off to the real world, training to fight or flying operational missions. Now, after nine years of this, the airline career is ahead of you. Wait a minute, I just glossed over one minor area. You see, you have to SURVIVE your time on active duty. Let's look at one squadron and the facts. This squadron of 40 pilots lost one pilot a year for four years. I know these numbers are correct because I was in that squadron. Do the math and you see that the odds of simply surviving a four year tour is approximately 90%. Those odds don't seem so bad, unless you are the one whose life depends on it. Those might seem like just statistics, but go to a few funerals, see the widows and children, and that 90% takes on a whole new meaning. And guess what, those numbers don't even take into account a real live war, and I'm not talking about the wars the stock traders talk about in the stock pits. They use real live bullets in this shooting match.

Ah, no problem, if you can't or won't make it via the military route, then you can always go the civilian path to the airlines.... Remember those hours
of experience???? If not, your short term memory is in doubt which may be a factor in your abilities to fly airplanes and make life threatening decisions - reread four paragraphs previous. Those average of 3,300 hours don’t come free on the civilian side of the equation either. You’ll probably need to start flying as soon as you get your drivers license in order to build those levels of hours before your life times out on the mortality tables. It'll cost you at least $2,000 to get your basic flying license: single engine, land; capable of avoiding clouds, weather less than clear and a million miles visibility, severe crosswinds and minimum night. Now, congratulations, you've got about 40-60 hours towards that 3,300.....get going, you've got a ways to go. Start paying for some more flying time, sport. It'll cost you 30-40 dollars per hour to rent a single engine Piper to fly your buddies around and look at the corn fields. Figure it out genius; it's going to be expensive to build several thousand hours. And don't forget, even if mom and dad are footing the bill for you, 3,000 hours of Piper Cherokee time won’t get you through American, United, Delta or anyone else's doors for a peek at the application stack!!

Thats right, youre going to have to get those other ratings. No problem.
You're a smart person. Just buy some more Instructor time, study some more stacks of books, go to more ground schools, shell out several thousand more dollars, spend thousands of hours studying some more, get that dual instruction time, take more tests, pass more physicals and you'll get that Instrument rating - maybe in that same Piper Cherokee. Congratulations! But guess what.....that’s right, you still aren't close to being qualified. You now have somewhere around 200-300 hours; enough to have the minimum necessary to go for a Commercial license. So, you pay, study, fly, study, pay, pay, pay, fly, pay, study, test, fly, pay, pay, fly, study, test......and finally get your Commercial ticket.
Great!! Now you can be paid to fly - that'll help. But you still only have 300 or so hours flying, not enough (remember 3,300 hours) to land a seat with the Big Boys. Don't give up yet, oh Mr/Ms Wannabee, you're on your way. If you want it bad enough, you'll keep going. If you don't want it bad enough, YOU'LL QUIT, SIT BACK AND WHINE ABOUT THOSE THAT SUCCEED!!! Not you though, you press on....

Get out the check book, buy some more time. You've got to get that multi-engine experience in order to get hired by some civilian company so you can build your time. You study, pay, fly (multi-engine now - so double the hourly rate), pay, pay, fly, pay, study, fly, pay, study, pay, pay some more, fly, test, study, fly, pay and finally - you've got that multi-engine rating. So, with all those ratings now, multi-engine, Instrument and the all important, commercial ticket, you can get a job flying airplanes. Oh, not
for the airlines; hell, the commuters won't even touch you yet. But you might land yourself a job hauling canceled checks for some company. That’ll be working the boneyard shift - midnight to 6 a.m. But you'll get paid minimum wage to fly (and build those hours). Remember, you’re determined to get qualified for the Majors!! Or maybe you’ll get hired to fly parachute jumpers. That'll get you a couple of hours per day. It's probably not turbo prop time, but it counts towards the total. No matter, if you work real hard, fly all the time (you do have to have some minimum rest as required by the FAA) you may be able to build 1,000 hours per year! At some point in time though, my future aviation professional friend, you've got to get that turbine / jet engine time. Yep, pay, pay, study, fly, test, pay, fly, test, pay, pay and more pay.

Finally, you've beat through the trenches of aviation to get enough hours and experience to qualify for a position flying as a co-pilot for one of the commuter airlines like ASA, ComAir, American Eagle or United Express. You apply, interview and get hired!! Again, congratulations - you've made another hurdle. Now you're building that commercial aviation experience. Oh, by the way, you're only making $14,000 per year starting - if you're lucky!! You'll get to do this for at least 2-3 years to build that 3,000 hours of experience and at some point in time, move over to the left seat to build that pilot-in-command (PIC) time. Looking at the years of struggling to this point, youre probably wishing you had gone the military route - of course, you didn't choose that option!!

So you press on....Now, regardless of whether you went the military or civilian route, there's been some substantial risks. Throughout your career you've been subjected to annual physicals (in some cases, every 6 months) that could have easily disqualified you, forever, from your chosen aviation career field. On top of that, guess what, the FAA has been closely watching you every step of the way. Fail to pass the written exams - you're history. Fail to pass the orals - you're history. Fail to pass the flying tests - you're history. No pressure. There's more....your FAA friends have a whole stack of books of regulations governing your life as a pilot and the operation of every single airplane you lift off the ground. Here's the risk:
SCREW UP ONE TIME, JUST ONCE, AND BREAK AN AIRPLANE, HURT SOMEONE, OR JUST COME CLOSE - AND THEY TAKE YOUR LICENSES AWAY FROM YOU. FOREVER !!!! They don't care how many years and thousands of dollars you spent getting to this point in your career......they don't care how badly you want to become a commercial airline pilot, ........you can beg, plead, get down on your whiny knees and cry.......THEY DON'T CARE !! YOU'RE HISTORY!!!! Congratulations, your lifetime of work has just been trashed for a simple mistake. Unfortunately, there are no big margins of error in this business. Unlike working at McDonalds, or as a marketing rep selling coat hangers, or some computer geek writing software or selling shoes at Macys, when you screw up, you stand the risk of KILLING PEOPLE! This ain't no PUSS GAME!!

But it's okay, you knew the risks, the requirements, the qualifications. YOU KNEW THE PRICE YOU'D HAVE To PAY!! And you also knew how easily it can all be jerked out from under you. So you've chosen to spend your LIFETIME studying to remain highly qualified and to get eligible for another step in the professional aviation ladder. It goes with the territory. But there are rewards commensurate with your choice. For one: you love to fly! That's why you're here. Second: there is a chance that someday, if all goes well, you may make it to the Majors and earn a good living, again, commensurate with being a professional pilot. And besides, if this were easy to do, EVERYONE WOULD Be DOING IT!! The requirements to cut it in this business make it such that it automatically weeds out the sniffling wannabees. You either have the mental and physical abilities coupled with the desire and DETERMINATION or youre sitting on the sideline -WHINING!! After 9 years on active duty in the military, or the equivalent on the civilian side, you've gotten the licenses and experience qualifying you to apply at the Majors. Unfortunately, the major airlines aren't like Exxon gas stations: there simply isn't one on every street corner hiring someone to pump gas. Any one airline is probably
hiring no more than 1,000 pilots per year - and that's a really big year. You may think you have what they're looking for, but guess what, so does every other pilot applying for that position. So the competition just elevated to another notch higher. Odds are more in favor of you NOT getting hired than of getting hired!! After two or three airline interviews, you might get lucky and get hired by a startup carrier - paying less than a person on the UAW assembly line. No problem, you'll keep applying to the other carriers even though you generally only have one opportunity. A NO is generally a no for the rest of your career. But you'll keep trying.

Even if you do get lucky and hired by a Major, there's more years of dues to
pay, studying, hard work, long days, short nights and hurdles to cross. The FAA not only watches you on paper, they sit on your jumpseat and watch over your shoulder. They analyze, criticize and evaluate every move you make. They're there for your orals, writtens, simulator checks and rating rides. They show up unannounced any time they choose. They check you and recheck you; sometimes two days in a row from different examiners. One big error now, sport, and you don't get bumped back to the Minors, you get bounced out on your ass!! You again accept the fact that youve chosen to live a life in
a profession that with any mistake you are AUTOMATICALLY GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT!!

But it's okay, because the risks are high, therefore the standards must be even higher!! You're no longer talking about dinging in your little Cherokee with your buds on board. Were talking about anywhere from 100 to 400 passengers (depending on the airplane) on board who are betting their lives that you MEET OR EXCEED THOSE HIGH STANDARDS. They're betting that when that engine fails, the hydraulic system quits or the flight controls stop working that you have the knowledge, experience and highly trained skill to safely and that airplane on a short runway, in weather that you wont take your Honda Accord out in to buy your pizza. Therein lies the blessing and the problem: passengers. Since deregulation, the prices for tickets have become increasingly competitive. In fact, the cut throat marketing schemes of some airlines have caused tickets prices to be so low that it is now cheaper to fly than to take the Greyhound bus. Hence, the business takes on the look and feel of mass transportation. More competition, lower ticket prices, more passengers. Through the process we’ve lowered the standards. Average tickets prices down, thus reduced revenues, and consequently a huge reduction in the standard of service. The simple fact of the matter, people, is that you cannot expect to get 1st class service for below Greyhound prices on your tickets. You don't go to the Cadillac dealer and expect to pay Yugo prices.

Heres an economic question for you: when you go to the grocery store, the gas station, make a long distance telephone call, buy a new modem or a new pair of shoes, do you think you pay LESS for that product or service than what it costs the business to SUPPLY it? Nope. But the marketing gurus in the airlines business sell seats for less than it costs to produce them.

So costs are out of sight. Gotta lower the overhead. We'll cut back on our service: no meals, minimum number of flight attendants to provide service, fewer agents, etc. In fact, we'll out source everything we can to lower costs. Well lay off tens of thousands of dedicated and loyal employees so we can contract with outside companies to fuel our planes, clean em, handle baggage and even work the gates. Those companies hire at minimum wage and with no benefits. So guess what, there is no employee loyalty, dedication or commitment. If its a rainy, cold Saturday in Chicago, the minimum wage ramp workers won't show up for work. What's the contractor going to do, fire them
and hire more minimum wage employees with the same dedication? So your bags get lost, or stolen, or just dont get put on the plane. The flight is late because there's not enough fuelers to fuel the airplane. You're pissed because the flight's late and it never crosses your mind that it might be because of your $79.00 round trip airfare from Chicago to Miami. You don't apply the same "you get what you pay for logic" to your airline ticket that you do when you go shopping for a new automobile. You expect to have your ass kissed for the $39.50 for that flight segment. Hell, you can't buy a
hooker to kiss your cheek for that amount of money!!

Guess what you think you can do for your $39.50?? You feel like you have the
constitutional right to defecate, urinate and vomit in the seat; leaving it for someone else to clean up. You throw your trash on the floor and walk away from it. You'll change your babys diaper on the tray table, wad up the pamper full of baby crap and leave it in the seatback pocket. And then you whine that youre paying too much for your ticket, the plane's late, or that seats are too cramped. Guess what?? I wouldn't ride in your car and treat you that way - why treat the professionals in the aviation community that way??!! Because - YOU DON’T CARE!!!! You want the most you can get for the east you have to pay for it!

Unfortunately, the airline managements have cut back their services to the point that they can't cut anymore. So they look to the only other source of cutting - employee salaries and benefits. For the non contract (non-union) groups its easy to scalp. They don't have any protection from irresponsible management who are only interested in the bottom line. But if you happen to be fortunate enough to have the protection of a professional organization (unions like ALPA or APA) then it’s a little bit tougher to slaughter. You see, even though management has reduced the standards of the products they sell, the standard by which professional pilots are subjected to have not been reduced!! The price pilots have had to pay is still there. The risks and the requirements still remain.
Passengers may want the most they can get for the least dollar, but they still want those pilots to have the experience/qualifications commensurate with requirements of operating aircraft, full of passengers, in an intense and risk filled environment! I hate to tell you this, sport, but that doesn't come FREE!! If you want it, you’ve got to pay for it!!

Now let's fold in record profits being reaped by airline management. Not to mention huge salaries and bonuses for executives at the airlines. Without exception, the salaries of professional pilots throughout the business have not kept pace with the cost of living for the past decade. Simply put, airline pilots are making less than they were 10 years ago, yet you keep charging more each year for that new color TV, automobile, gallon of milk or tank of gas.

So, after 25 years of flying experience, tests, physical exams, simulator checks, military service, etc., etc, I finally reach the left seat of an airplane in the service of a commercial carrier. Yep, I also get a 6 figure income. Tell me, why shouldn’t I??? If anyone could get here, then this profession wouldn't have the added benefit of a nice salary. It doesn't require a doctor the same number of years to get to 6 figures, yet, no one denies that surgeon is worth every penny when you're laying on the table with your chest sliced open and a rib splitter making a hole large enough to reach through. And a surgeon only kills them one at a time when he screws up!! I don't hear you whining about stock brokers getting 6 figure incomes. You don't seem to have any problem with paying $100 to take your family to a professional baseball game to watch a 19 year-old play ball for $1 million per year!! But for some reason, you are pissed off that professional airline pilots are eventually compensated with a 6 figure income.

And you want to whine about their retirement? Statistically, only 1 out of every 3 pilots entering this profession will ever make it to retirement. That’s a 66 percent chance that I'll never see the lump-sum numbers that you want to bitch about. And guess what, if it weren't for collective bargaining, contracts, unions and federal regulations, reckless managements would be robbing those retirement funds like Jesse James. Thank goodness there are unions out there protecting the earned benefits of professionals.

So why shouldn't the pilots at American, United, Delta or any other union carrier, fight for the survival of their profession. Obviously managements have forgotten (or selectively forget) what it took to get in the pilots seat (managements are predominately non-pilots) and what it takes to remain there for a full career. Executives would like to ignore their own high salaries, bonuses and benefits and rather ignite the public and fellow employees against the 6 figure salaries of the professional pilots.

So you, in your ignorance, jump on that bashing bandwagon without being armed with the facts. The fact of the matter is this: If you, or any other living, breathing, whining non-achiever wants to make the 6 figure income of a professional pilot - its an open door thats available to you. I've laid it out for you. Its there for the taking. All you have to do is go for it. You can't sit on the sideline and whine though. Whining won't get you into the Captains seat on a B-767. You also can't leap from your Piper Cherokee into the left seat of that B-777 or B-727. There are no short cuts!! But you can get there; many have made it. So can you. But if you don't want it bad enough to pay the price, or you don’t have the commitment, dedication, enthusiasm or determination to get there.....then STOP YOUR BITCHING.

Because, you see, just as much as you obviously don't care what it takes for an individual to make it to the left seat of a B-747 with 400 passengers on board, we don’t give a rats ass that you don't care!! We'll do what we have to do to protect our profession, careers, benefits and salaries. It wasn't a cake walk to get here.....that’s obvious because you're not among those that have SUCCEEDED.

Have another slice of pizza, flip to a different channel and stop bashing those who chose a tougher career.

DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS!!! A lot has been said and written in the press concerning pilots' salaries and compensation. We have been told about how much it will cost our company, our job has been compared to others, and various subtle and not so subtle threats and intimidation tactics have been hurled at our group. In light of the current situation, please allow me, a pilot to give you a small glimpse into my world...

DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS!!!

...How many boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?
...How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?
...How many trucks cost $82 million dollars?
...How many doctors spend half the month away from their families?
...Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his
uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?
...How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?
...How many lawyers spent Christmas alone in a crash pad?
...When your wife is watching TV and the program is interrupted by a news
flash of an aircraft accident, does she momentarily freeze in fear for what
she might hear?

There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.

THE PRICE
...I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo
hold
...I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick
...I pay the price when loaders forget to set the locks
...I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump incorrectly
...I pay the price when Mother Nature decides to shift the winds...

YOU SPEAK OF THE COST
...Ask the CEO of Value Jet the cost of a DC-9 buried in the
Everglades...The Cost..
...Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at
Steward and Newark...The Cost
...Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway
at Guam... The Cost
...Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami Street... The Cost
...Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Columbian mountain...The
Cost
...And if not for their Cool, Calm, Professionalism, what could have been
the cost of a UPS B-727 that suddenly went dark and silent four miles above
Chicago? How much were they worth to you that night? Industry standard or 25
% below? ...... The Cost

WHEN YOU TRY TO INTIMIDATE ME, REMEMBER
...It was I who flew Cobra gunships in the jungles of Vietnam while you worked on your masters degree
...It was I who sits alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I am catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you slept peacefully in your bed
...It was I who, one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Monday night football
...It was I who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree in 1989
...It was I who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN
...It was I who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours
...It was I who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you
...It was I who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers in your garden blossom
...It was I who buried a friend
...It is I who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his Dad, so that you may play with your grandchild.

Sir, please don't try to intimidate me.

I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset that has experienced and accomplished things few others dare to try. Realize this and there a few obstacles we can't overcome.
 
dw9115
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 1):
and the rest of the people running NW honestly believe the solution to their financial woes is to get rid of union labor in their airline.

That would be a good start.
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:44 pm

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 43):



Quoting Jano (Reply 42):
I am a pilot myself, though not yet for an airline. But I've flown in the cockpit jumpseat with roughly 5 percent of the Northwest Airlines seniority list

Just curious how you get to fly in a jump seat when you don't work for NW? Well written, but why on earth would you want to be a pilot for a major airline in this day and age? I could see it 5 or more years ago, but the way things are going now ???
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
aaden
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:25 pm

No, there bluffing just like united.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:33 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 40):
Surprise.....YES! bigthumbsup

Haha that is a surprise... I was envisioning a "work or we'll cane you" approach to labor management.  Smile
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13072
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 3):
I do think this would be the end of NW, but I also think the management wants them to strike. Management has their millions of dollars in their bank accounts, so why would they care if this airline fails or not. Maybe they have a few thousand outsource pilots waiting to take to the sky if the NW pilots walk.

This could be possible. Aren't the MX people at NW still striking? Nonetheless, despite that strike, NW is still around. I don't want to be gloomy about this, but unless NW has a backup plan for this case, if the pilots walk, the game is over. A compromise has to be found in some way, and I feel the Unions can be rather counterproductive with their style sometimes.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
I would prefer to see the poorly run airlines (whether or not that includes NW is surely to be contested by people on both sides) turn around and become well run profit-machines. Like Continental did a few years back.
I would love for all the managers to be stripped of their golden parachutes and thrown out. Then, bring in Gordo or someone like him who can earn the trust of the employees quickly. And turn that sucker around.

Well said, you have taken the words out of my mouth. Instead of wishing that the legacies fold, one should wish they turn around for the better. I don't understand sometimes why people have this desire for one airline to fold and thus wishing that lots of people lose their jobs and have trouble finding a new job.
 
ual777
Posts: 1497
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: NW Pilots To Strike!?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting Desiguy2447 (Reply 7):
The pilots should not be allowed to strike, and destroy NWA and all the other employee's jobs.

Great idea. Let management bend the pilots over again.

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 18):
You are just a poseur. If NWA lists a bunch of Pilot jobs in the Star Tribune and gets no resonse, then I agree they are underpaid. Obviously qualified Americans would line up for miles to get these pilot jobs. So by that definition they remain well compensated. And it happens to be the economic definition of overpaid.

They will get no response because if there was a strike, MOST pilots would not scab. They are not overpaid. You are a moron who doesn't understand the profession.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 38):
I don't think they have the cajones to strike.



Quoting Aaden (Reply 46):
No, there bluffing just like united.

No they are not. They have nothing to lose with NEWCO being proposed. I know alot of NW pilots and they are NOT playing this time.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.

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