md90fan
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Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:11 am

What does the future hold for BMI? Where will they expand(with ERJ's again?)? I've been hearing bad things lately about them and how they've been slashing some routes(LHR-MAD and LIN). And they moved jobs to India lol. Well they hang on? Or ever get more LHR slots? Anything appreciated  Smile


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7LBAC111
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:22 am

There are few options left for BMI. They have lost direction entirely. They are mixing the LCC model with their mainline operation, and seriously p*ssing of the most important commodity - the high yield business passenger.

Rumours consistently circulate about a VS takeover, but this can never happen while SMB is at the helm. However, IMHO, BMI are destined to failure unless this takeover is allowed to happen.

7L
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ozvirginuk
Posts: 365
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 1):
Rumours consistently circulate about a VS takeover, but this can never happen while SMB is at the helm. However, IMHO, BMI are destined to failure unless this takeover is allowed to happen.

I agree that with SMB in the driver's seat, that this is unlikely to happen. However, it would be great for VS to be able to boast a domestic and European network. This would improve pax numbers on our international network, with through fares available from alot more destinations.

BD could also use help with service improvements, and the "Virgin Touch" maybe just what they need.

Oz
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting Ozvirginuk (Reply 2):

How profitable are VS at the moment. Do you think that VS could sustain the loss making BD network in the short term?

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
ozvirginuk
Posts: 365
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
How profitable are VS at the moment. Do you think that VS could sustain the loss making BD network in the short term?

VS are reasonably profitable, in that we have turned a profit consistently for a number of years now. There aren't alot of major international carriers doing that these days.

I think some quick fire, drastic measures would need to be implemented to make sure it was a success. This would need to start with looking at the network, and ensuring that the destination mix was appropriate for connecting with onward international flights. Also, the onboard product would need looking at straight away, and be in line with the VS mainline product. ie free meals, and IFE on Euro flights etc.

Who really knows whether this is going to happen??? My colleagues and I often discuss it, but we are not decision makers, so we'll just have to wait and see..

Oz
 
Orion737
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:48 am

It saddens me to see the state of BD today but they have only themselves to blame. Only a few years ago, BD were doing well, increasing frequencies and developing new scheduled routes which were mainly aimed at business travellers and high end leisure travellers. Their on board service was a key selling point for them and they had a loyal customer base.

Gradually they started to diversify. Long haul became almost an obsession and then they moved into the no-frills sector with creation of BMIbaby. This took their 'eye off the ball' and pursuing the long haul ambitions and trying to increase share of the no-frills market allowed them to neglect their 'bread and butter' business passengers.

BMI then lost the plot completley, reducing frequencies, cutting service levels from 'full frills' to 'no frills' and lost all consistency across the brand.

They were so focused on the long haul, that they have neglected and ailienated their short haul passenger base, which is and always has been the majority of BDs business.
 
jmc757
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:14 am

I can see baby and bmi parting ways in the future. Baby already have their own AOC. I imagine they will be sold off to either a competitor to be merged (similar to easy/Go) or to other investors and carry on operating as baby. (Does anyone know how succesful/not baby is on its own?)
 
egmcman
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Do you think that VS could sustain the loss making BD network in the short term?

Good question

Quoting Ozvirginuk (Reply 4):
Also, the onboard product would need looking at straight away, and be in line with the VS mainline product. ie free meals, and IFE on Euro flights etc.

Is there a demand for this type of service on short haul routes? and could be done at a low cost to be competative?

What did VS offer on it's services LGW & LHR - ATH using the Airbus A321?
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 7):
What did VS offer on it's services LGW & LHR - ATH using the Airbus A321?

Did VS not actually use the A340 on the ATH...???  scratchchin 
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Concorde001
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 8):
Did VS not actually use the A340 on the ATH...???

It was an A321 for ATH.


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Door5Right
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:55 am

Virgin launched the Gatwick to Athens route in 1993.

It was a franchised operation using a leased A320-200 G-OUZO "Spirit of Melina" in partnership with a private Greek airline, South East European Airlines.

It had Business and Economy and, unusually for the time, there were "Stand By" fares available at Gatwick on a daily basis. I had the pleasure of being upgraded to Business en-route to Athens to join a cruise ship. The Greek crew, in the Virgin trade mark red uniforms, were excellent. The seating was 2 abreast in Business (unlike Ba's 2-3) and there were individual video Walkmans for pasengers and a library of movies to select from. I remember the food as being excellent and the champagne flowed all the way to Athens!

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sevenforeseven
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:34 am

The sooner VS take over BMI the better. BMI are destined for the scrap heap. The only thing M. Bishop got going for him is the LHR slots. M. Bishop is no spring chicken now (he is getting old). He should sell to VS and maybe take a position on the VS board of directors. VS need shorthaul to compete with the old unionised dinosaur BA. This is the only airline that cabin attendants take home more pay than fight crew.
 
VSGirl
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:55 am

I am not quite sure that Virgin Atlantic taking over British Midland will ever happen and I am not sure it would make sense.

Virgin Atlantic has always found its major successes on long haul services (I am talking about the UK based airline, not Virgin Blue etc). If we did merge or take over BMi so many changes would have to be made I think it would be too risky and right now I am not sure if there is a yield for such changes to be made.

Being honest in the past when I have ever asked senior management / executive management about taking over or merging with BMi they just either laugh or say “not in this life time”.

For the record I would like to see Virgin in the European market, but, I don’t want to work for ‘another’ British Airways

Kimberly.
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 9):
Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 8):
Did VS not actually use the A340 on the ATH...???

It was an A321 for ATH.

Didn't VS also have Virgin Sun ?, I think they sold it off in the end.

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bmiexpat
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting VSGirl (Reply 12):
I am not quite sure that Virgin Atlantic taking over British Midland will ever happen and I am not sure it would make sense.

What you are forgetting is that if Virgin take over/merge with bmi then Virgin would get their hands on all those lovely slots at LHR to launch new long haul services..... that makes a great deal of sense.

Also considering VS codeshare on a lot of bmi European and domestic services, if the two airlines became one, I'm sure the bmi route network would become even more valuable to VS as a feeder network.

I see a bmi/VS combined airline as a very sensible proposition.
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Reply 11):
The only thing M. Bishop got going for him is the LHR slots.

... Which is what makes bmi a very valuable airline. If the airline is ever in a position to be sold it won't just be VS interested. For a start don't LH have first option to buy the remaining 50%+1 shares? If the EU and US can sort out their open skies with the cavet of opening up LHR it would be worth any airline buying up bmi just for the slots which would be even more valuable.
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BDKLEZ
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 14):
I see a bmi/VS combined airline as a very sensible proposition

It always has been. The problem is that while SMB is still in the chair, that is most unlikely to happen. The old man is never going to sell to Branson. However, if has hand could be forced, then maybe things would be different.

BD have been now left out of the original threesome that were BD,LH & SK who made up a grouping called the European Joint Venture whereby the profits and losses of those three carriers would be spread accross all three whereby limiting the effect on one individual carrier. However, BD's losses and poor management direction have meant that BD have now been left out of a renewed agreement. LH & SK have gone it alone.

Also, it's no secret that both LH & SK want to get rid of their respective stakes in BD, and particularly in terms of the BD/LH agreement, that stake may be particularly difficult to dispose of because of certain clauses in the agreement which dictate that LH may be required to purchase the company in the event that Bishop sells. So some clever number-crunching may indeed by required in order for this to happen.

A BD/VS alliance/merger/take-over/whatever should have happened years ago, but again that didn't happen and again that was (IMHO) singly due to SMB's stubborness.

In those days, VS would have been happy to run with the BD brand etc in the event of a merger, however the way things are these days and if Dickie ever gets his hands on it, I personally can see a Virgin Europe rising out of the ashes of BD, with the BD product never to be seen again.

As an ex BD-er of many years service with the company, I'm sad at the prospect of doom that BD now faces. I hope that SMB sees sense before too long and doesn't commit the company to the grave before it should be. The situation can be saved, but time is running out....

Good luck to all my ex colleagues.....

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egmcman
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:08 pm

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 13):
Didn't VS also have Virgin Sun ?, I think they sold it off in the end.

They sold to it to First Choice in 2001.
 
scotron11
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:32 pm

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 14):

I see a bmi/VS combined airline as a very sensible proposition.

Can someone tell me where VS will get the money from?

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 16):

Also, it's no secret that both LH & SK want to get rid of their respective stakes in BD, and particularly in terms of the BD/LH agreement, that stake may be particularly difficult to dispose of because of certain clauses in the agreement which dictate that LH may be required to purchase the company in the event that Bishop sells. So some clever number-crunching may indeed by required in order for this to happen.

Most recently, SAS was bemoaning the burden of their BD stake, and the losses they have to bear. But, so far, LH & SK have'nt had any takers.

ONTH, if this so-called "open-skies" deal happens with the US/EU, then it could be a very different ball game, and an interesting one at that!
 
SNBru
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:26 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 16):
I personally can see a Virgin Europe rising out of the ashes of BD, with the BD product never to be seen again

Now that TV has been sold to SN, the Virgin Express name may become available very soon.
 
djmatthews
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:24 pm

Rather than a full blown BD/VS merger, the Virgin Company should buy BD, but run it as a separate business. All Virgin companies are run independently; therefore if one arm of the business fails e.g. Mobile Phones, it doesn't bring down the rest of the business e.g. Virgin Atlantic.

Now, Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Europe/Connect/Midland could then effectively create a mini alliance and share lounges, FFP, handling etc. The new airlines could work together feeding the long haul flights from smaller airports, as well as serving existing destinations.

However, for this to be financially successful the ‘new’ Virgin airline would need a low cost base, and a clear identity of its own. The airline would probably have to asset strip, and rebuild the ‘new’ airline practically from scratch, but with the added benefit of a lot of slots.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting Djmatthews (Reply 20):
However, for this to be financially successful the ‘new’ Virgin airline would need a low cost base, and a clear identity of its own

To do this, VS would have to buy BD, and close the entire BD headoffice and support operation, in a similar manner to what EZY did to the GO operation. What you then get is more passengers, but only one head office cost.

And thats another reason why WW and BD should be merged. Why on earth do they have two fixed cost bases when they can be merged into one, and benefit from a single operation. Some are already saying that the service level on both carriers are similar these days.
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:47 am

Endless speculation but it is really all in the hands of Sir Michael Bishop. Maybe he'll be happy to sell-up once Open Skies happens, as BD will become much more attractive. Or he might simply decide to go it alone, and try and take on BA, VS, etc. Even if a VS takeover took place, can't see VS being interested in either bmi regional or bmi baby. They wouldn't fit the core business of supporting VS at LHR. Even feeding VS at MAN wouldn't be attractive because VS at MAN is like at LGW - O&D leisure routes supporting Virgin Holidays. That is maybe one way VS could get in - take BD at LHR, with LH and SK being stakeholders in an enlarged VS along with SQ, and leave Sir Michael Bishop with baby and regional. But of course, it's all down to Sir Michael.
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galleyhag
Posts: 37
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:05 am

Regarding 'bmibaby being a profitable airline and self sustaining'....

bmibaby is a fantastically strong airline on it's own and has been absorbing bmi mainline's losses for a while now. Since the introduction of the new no frills on our short haul we've started making money again (so we are told) albeit slowly. So baby breaking off on it's own wouldn't surprise me, although in the summer they would be stuck for last minute crews when it ops on an A320 instead of a B737! There is a HUGE amount of uncertainty amongst all bd staff and there has been for a long while. There's no clear direction at all and we can't see where we are headed. The VS take over is a hot topic and some are for it, some are against it. Me? I can see it coming. With over 20% of the slots at LHR we're a nice little package.
 
Concorde001
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:14 pm

Quoting Galleyhag (Reply 23):
With over 20% of the slots at LHR we're a nice little package.

BMI only "hold 12% of all take off and landing slots at London Heathrow*

*Source: http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/aboutbmi/aboutbmi.aspx

Out of interest, does anybody know whether BMI gave some of their slots to SK and/or LH when they bought shares in the company?
 
cornish
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Do you think that VS could sustain the loss making BD network in the short term?

It would be slash and burn as soon as they could. If it was ever to happen, EVERYTHING that was non-LHR would go - sold off to anyone who wants it.

Anything that didn't have good connectivity to VS's long haul services would go, and it would work as purely a feeder operation. VS simply don't have the need and desire to get involved in the bloodbath market that is intra-Europe.

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 14):
What you are forgetting is that if Virgin take over/merge with bmi then Virgin would get their hands on all those lovely slots at LHR to launch new long haul services..... that makes a great deal of sense.

Much more important. With good slots going for up to 20 million and maybe more in future, those slots are THE biggest draw that Bmi has. If VS was to take them over, they might keep some of those slots runnig short haul or loan them out, only so long as they get more long haul aircraft and start new routes that would take over many of those which are currently European slots.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Billy
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:07 pm

BD are not really interested in operating serices to the US anymore. They are looking east and south.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:58 pm

I agree

BD LHR operation will probably be sold to VS.
The A320's series will probably service VS at LHR with European Flights, the A330's will dissapear into the VS Expansion plans.

All the other equipment will just be put on a market junk stall.

The best routes will be sucked up by Easyjet / Ryanair / FlyBE.

And the rest will be souvenirs on ebay.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 25):
It would be slash and burn as soon as they could. If it was ever to happen, EVERYTHING that was non-LHR would go - sold off to anyone who wants it.

Indeed, totally agree.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 25):
those slots are THE biggest draw that Bmi has

In fact, if I'm going to be totally honest, they are the only draw that BD has held for quite a few years now. This is the whole reason that SMB has stood fast in his conviction not to let go of BD. Pure greed! (IMHO!)

Quoting Billy (Reply 26):
BD are not really interested in operating serices to the US anymore.

Nonsense. The desire to operate to the US (from LHR) is as much a part of BD's fundamental make up as eggs are to chickens. Rightly or wrongly, it always has been, and it always will be!
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
rdwootty
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:29 am

Interestlingly Virgin Holidays are actively selling BD MAN flights to both Vegas and Carib with allocations on both and ,I suspect filling the planes both back middle and front!! maybe The owner of BMI is like the owner of Aston Villa . they think they can go on for ever but the time comes to give up the Boss's job and go out to pasture
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Billy (Reply 26):
BD are not really interested in operating serices to the US anymore. They are looking east and south.

The bit that stands out to me is south. Could we see BD in Africa soon?
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BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 29):
Interestlingly Virgin Holidays are actively selling BD MAN flights to both Vegas and Carib with allocations on both and ,I suspect filling the planes both back middle and front!!

Not necessarily. easyCruise also sell VS flights via their (easyCruise) own website; commercial advertising, that's all it is.
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rdwootty
Posts: 689
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:59 pm

Replying to BDKLEZ The difference is that easycruise does not have an allocation and the clients book themselves direct with VS . Virgin Holidays has a full allocation of seats to sell within their inventory. this means that when the flights are showing full with BD you can still get seats with Virgin holidays at the lower price!
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 29):
Interestlingly Virgin Holidays are actively selling BD MAN flights to both Vegas and Carib with allocations on both and ,I suspect filling the planes both back middle and front!! maybe



Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 32):
this means that when the flights are showing full with BD you can still get seats with Virgin holidays at the lower price!

Actually, this is quite irrelevant. As has been said before, all Virgin companies are run separately. Therefore, I would think that Virgin Holidays have allocations on many airlines, especially to destinations where they do not fly themselves, or from airports they don not serve in the UK.

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 32):
Virgin Holidays has a full allocation of seats to sell within their inventory

Perhaps, but most airlines will have many Corporate/IT etc agreements with various oranisations who have been given an allocation. Just becuase we're talking about Virgin Holidays & Virgin Atlantic here has no bearing at all because the two companies are run independantly with separate costs bases.

[Edited 2006-02-07 11:12:07]
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cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:10 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 30):
The bit that stands out to me is south. Could we see BD in Africa soon?

Doubt it - they were close to MAN-JNB for 2005 but pulled it in order to focus on LHR services (although the reason they gave was not getting agreement from the pilots).

The only destinations that make real sense out of LHR if you want to make money are South Africa, Nigeria and Angola. None of which BD could fly with the current bilaterals, and in the case of the most logical choice, South Africa, there's no way the bilateral will change in the current political climate.

And its clear they simply aren't interested in new long haul from MAN.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:31 pm

The US used to be a BMI priority. This is no longer the case. Without going into details, south and east is the priority. Bilateral agreements can be renegotiated.

Who do you think is stalling the MAN-HKG service?
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:34 pm

Quoting Billy (Reply 36):
Bilateral agreements can be renegotiated.

Maybe so - but there are some huge barriers regarding South Africa - ex-LHR. Big enough barriers to see no changes in the immediate future. BD may have its code on SA flights, but no flights with its own metal.

The one circumstance that may help its cause is if it was to give up some prime slots to SAA for the enhanced services they badly want.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:43 pm

Usual half-truths and VS speculation gets trotted out here regularly.

Bottom line is, Virgin cannot afford BD. The Heathrow slots alone are worth up to £1 billion that BD holds, plus LH and SK are minority shareholders. Neither would agree to a sale or share deal with Branson.

Michael Bishop despises Branson and will also never allow his airline to be the subject of a VS merger.

BD is also not a huge lossmaker. They have either broke even or made small accounting-driven losses recently, and are financially healthier than other carriers who are carrying monstrous debt loads or making enormous losses. The India issue relates to back-office ticketing staff and is nothing that others such as BA have not done before them. Cost cutting is important and shipping ticketing processing to India saves BD a chunk of cash.

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 29):
Interestlingly Virgin Holidays are actively selling BD MAN flights to both Vegas and Carib with allocations on both and ,I suspect filling the planes both back middle and front!! maybe The owner of BMI is like the owner of Aston Villa . they think they can go on for ever but the time comes to give up the Boss's job and go out to pasture

Hie isn't the 'boss'. He is the majority owner and free to do as he pleases.

If anyone is in line to buy him out, it is Lufthansa. Virgin want BD for nothing, and have tried in the past to do a merger deal with Bishop where he gets unlisted and heavily restricted Virgin Atlantic stock in exchange. Now they are part-owned by SQ the deal would be even more complex and could dilute SQ's holding. They would therefore be inclined to block any Virgin merger.

A cash deal is going to be impossible as VS has no assets to leverage, and Branson doesn't have anything like the money personally to find his half of the BD purchase price.

Anyone can go shopping but if you don't have the money you can't buy anything. Especially if your credit card is maxed out, and Virgin is carrying a ton of debt already.

BD's current deal with Arkefly for the 763 points to Bishop being cautious. If the new routes from LHR are successful then another A332 would be self-financing. As things stand, they can take the results for the routes and negotiate better funding on an aircraft with readymade income. The 763 is being used on the tourist routes to LAS and Antigua etc from Manchester, with the A332 retained on the business-heavy ORD route.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
purplebox
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am

RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 38):
BD's current deal with Arkefly for the 763 points to Bishop being cautious. If the new routes from LHR are successful then another A332 would be self-financing. As things stand, they can take the results for the routes and negotiate better funding on an aircraft with readymade income.

Does anybody know why BD didn't lease another A332 instead of the B763?

Purplebox.
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:58 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 39):

Does anybody know why BD didn't lease another A332 instead of the B763?

which A332? There are practically none available, and the only ones which are available are currently the subject of competing bids from prospective operators.

You can't lease nonexistent aircraft. BD have just done a deal with QR for a wet-leased one for the DOH route. The 763 was available on ACMI which is the next best thing.
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purplebox
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 40):
You can't lease nonexistent aircraft. BD have just done a deal with QR for a wet-leased one for the DOH route. The 763 was available on ACMI which is the next best thing.

OK - but what does ACMI stand for? Thanks.

Purplebox.
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Skymonster
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:03 pm

WRT the US, the only good thing the possible EU-US bilatteral will do for BD is potentially increase the value of their LHR slot assets (and thus the airline). Even with the benefit of the rose tinted glasses some at the Hall wear, BD would be mad to take on the trans-Atlantic market ex LHR when most of the high yield city pairs are already dominated by BA, VS, UA and/or AA and with other carriers with far larger connecting markets also potentially entering the fray.

A
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Skymonster
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:32 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 40):
BD have just done a deal with QR for a wet-leased one for the DOH route. The 763 was available on ACMI which is the next best thing.

Huh?

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 41):
OK - but what does ACMI stand for?

Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance and Insurance... In fact, the same as a wet-lease!

FWIW, the 767 is on what is often referred to as a damp lease - Dutch front end crews but BD cabin staff.

Furthermore, as of last week the CAA had not approved the BD "lease" of A7-AEA - it was still under consideration.

Andy
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ZSOFN
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:03 pm

A7-AEA is an A333 which obviously means they're hoping for larger loads...
 
Humberside
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting Billy (Reply 36):
Who do you think is stalling the MAN-HKG service?

I think its the Rrussian Government
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Billy
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:18 am

Humberside,

The UK government has asked airlines if they object to the CX fifth freedom rights (SVO-MAN). Only one UK airline objected.
 
Humberside
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:19 am

I was just going of the information in Manchester News 2 thread which seemed to indicate the problems where to do with the Russian authorities. I take there have been developments since then

Quoting Billy (Reply 46):
Only one UK airline objected.

Is it public knowledge which airline that is?
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mhodgson
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:29 am

I'd imagine BA, as they are the only UK airline operating to Moscow. I could be wrong though, seeeing as CX and BA are both One World carriers.
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7LBAC111
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RE: Future Of BD/BMI

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 47):
I was just going of the information in Manchester News 2

Manchester News 2 is quite possibly the least reliable source on this website, (with respect to many of the posters in that thread), it is full of supposition, wishlists and ideology of one rather poofy user. Big grin

Quoting Humberside (Reply 47):
Is it public knowledge which airline that is?

Erm... BMI - they object to everything.

7L
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