qqflyboy
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AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:22 pm

In an effort to squeeze more revenue from the MD-80, American is going to reconfigure the galley's in the coach cabin, allowing four more passenger seats to be installed.

This is from a flight attendant hotline:

"As background, the initial design of the MD80 aircraft, years ago, provided three galleys (in coach) to support a full meal service and for many years that galley space was in use. Since we no longer have meals in coach, the need for three full galleys no longer exists. To gain more efficiencies with our MD80 aircraft, we have determined that four additional coach customer seats can be added to each aircraft by reducing galleys in coach and redesigning the area for more efficient use of space. The G4b and G5 galleys will be removed, which will allow the four passenger seats to be added. To ensure that the same levels of food and beverage service can be accommodated with this change, 2 cart housings and new trash receptacles will be added. A locked storage bin for flight attendant belongings will also be provided. With the installation of the four seats, AA will gain an additional 1,280 seats per day which is the equivalent of 10 aircraft worth of flying, generating an additional $34.7 million per year in revenue. As part of this modification, we will also be standardizing the MD80 fleet by replacing the old TWA galleys and carts with AA galleys and carts, which will improve operational efficiencies and lower costs. As we move forward with this effort, we will be asking a group of FAs to work with Inflight Products and Food and Beverage to optimize the design. The reconfigurations will begin in September of this year."

I suppose this makes sense, but I'd like to see a drawing of the new setup so I'll reserve judgement. One concern I have, however, is the industry is constantly complaining about how there is too much capacity. How does adding nearly 1,300 seats to your inventory reduce capacity? With this new configuration there will be 16 first class and 124 main cabin seats.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
wdleiser
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:29 pm

It will only make them money if they ensure those seats are all full. I hope they realize that and took that into consideration.... which they probably did.
 
Brick
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 1):
It will only make them money if they ensure those seats are all full

Wrong. Even if those four seats are empty the airline still saves money. Those four empty seats weigh considerably less than the galleys do. Less weight = less fuel.
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UpperDeck79
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:42 pm

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
The G4b and G5 galleys will be removed

Some AA MD-80's have 4, some 5 gallies:

MD-80 Configuration 1
MD-80 Configuration 2
MD-80 Configuration 3

So I guess from the configuration 3 only one galley is removed, right?
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AA737-823
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:52 pm

Too much capacity?
Yes, the industry complains about it, but have you looked at quarterly load factors lately? They're insane. Setting some records, I believe, at certain carriers.
The problem is not capacity, it's yields. But, even so, most airlines saw substantial improvements in yields last year (see Continental and Alaska).
So, while I hate that service has deteriorated to the point that American (who considered themselves a premium airline, the carrier of choice for businessmen of the 70s and 80s) doesn't even need galleys, this is sensible.

Another idea, if the plane is full and you're still not making money (which seems to be the case), you'd better add more seats, hadn't you? Now that I put it that way, it makes perfect sense.

Very rarely does American do dumb things. I suspect they've figured this down to the cent.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:56 pm

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
As part of this modification, we will also be standardizing the MD80 fleet by replacing the old TWA galleys and carts with AA galleys and carts, which will improve operational efficiencies and lower costs.

Just another move to completely wipe the TWA name off AA's slate  Sad

DeltaGuy
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ILOVEA340
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:20 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
Just another move to completely wipe the TWA name off AA's slate

How can you say that??? This has nothing to do with wiping out the TWA name and everything to do with fleet commonality and part standardization. Think about it... Less spare parts to stock, less cross training of equiptment, less variation between seat layouts...

They would be stupid NOT to do this cinsidering that they are already going to be working on those parts of the planes.
 
satx
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:28 pm

I personally tend to avoid AA, but I still think this is a smart move on their part.
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airtran737
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:40 pm

This will also make the aircraft lighter, thus saving some fuel each time she vaults herself into the sky.
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DL4EVR
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
So, while I hate that service has deteriorated to the point that American (who considered themselves a premium airline, the carrier of choice for businessmen of the 70s and 80s) doesn't even need galleys, this is sensible.

What if one day, (in some alternate universe) they go back to full hot meal service in coach?  Smile LOL
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satx
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 9):
What if one day, (in some alternate universe) they go back to full hot meal service in coach?

Well, since we're dealing with alternate universes now, I'd assume that the 'other' AA has simply left their galleys in place. As for this universe, I'm confident they'll never go back to full hot meal service in Y until long after the MD80 type has be retired for good.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
One concern I have, however, is the industry is constantly complaining about how there is too much capacity. How does adding nearly 1,300 seats to your inventory reduce capacity?

Didn't AA already remove the ovens from the MD-80's as a weight reduction measure?? Empty galleys, or galleys carting around deadhead equipment is dead weight and has no revenue potential. It certainly makes sense on their part for all of the stated reasons.
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contrails
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:20 pm

I think AA has a point. If the galleys aren't being used they can cram a few more pax in those spaces.

I think AA's new slogan should be "cramming passengers into the plane, that's what we do best".
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Alitalia744
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
16 first class and 124 main cabin seats.

Which oddly enough is only 2 seats short of the original AA MD80 configuration (before MRTC and all that bullshit)
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
abirda
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting Contrails (Reply 12):
I think AA's new slogan should be "cramming passengers into the plane, that's what we do best".

And yet the pitch on all of their aircraft, barring the often-discussed 757 and A300, is still well above the industry standard. The same majority of their fleet features up-to-date interiors in which all seats have winged headrests. All of that makes for flights that are more comfortable than crammed.

But thanks for the pointless waste of bandwidth anyway.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 14):
But thanks for the pointless waste of bandwidth anyway.

You're titled to your opinion as others are to theres.

personally, I avoid AA like the plague. Never had a nice flight on them in all my travels.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:13 am

Personally, I think this is a very smart move. As someone who flies on American often, I can attest to the seldom use that the MD80 Y galleys get, and this is a perfect opportunity to simoultaneously save weight (and thus fuel and money) and also increase revenue with four more seats to fill, while not compromising the above-industry standard legroom AA's MD80 Y customers already get.
 
satx
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 14):
And yet the pitch on all of their aircraft, barring the often-discussed 757 and A300, is still well above the industry standard.

+

Quoting Commavia (Reply 16):
while not compromising the above-industry standard legroom AA's MD80 Y customers already get.

Neither of you have given any specifics of the new seat pitch on each aircraft type. "Above the industry standard" doesn't mean much to me. Can you please give me cold hard facts about the post-MRTC pitch with a link or two to back them up? Thanks-in-advance.
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lightsaber
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
AA will gain an additional 1,280 seats per day which is the equivalent of 10 aircraft worth of flying, generating an additional $34.7 million per year in revenue. As part of this modification, we will also be standardizing the MD80 fleet by replacing the old TWA galleys and carts with AA galleys and carts, which will improve operational efficiencies and lower costs.

Two good costs savings. More seats... Keeping the fleet simple. All good.

Quoting Brick (Reply 2):
Even if those four seats are empty the airline still saves money. Those four empty seats weigh considerably less than the galleys do. Less weight = less fuel.

 checkmark  Not to mention when those seats do sell, the revenue will be worth it. Also, Since AA isn't "tipping over" another multiple of 50, they'll use the same number of f/a's.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 3):
So I guess from the configuration 3 only one galley is removed, right?

I hope AA uses the oportunity to cut down on the number of MD-80 configurations to at most 2 and I would hope 1. Can anyone tell me why there are 3 configurations? TWA? MRCR transitions?

Now AA needs to winglet the MD-80's. I've thought about it a bit more and as much as I'd like to see the PW6000A on these airframes, I don't see the payoff in 10 years.  Sad

Hopefully AA can get in the black in 2006 or 2007.

Lightsaber
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georgiaame
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:43 am

Makes sense to me. The airlines are no longer serving food, and passenger comfort is non existent to begin with, so why not pack in a few more? And I hate to say this, but since the primary responsibilty of a flight attendant is to SERVE food (except for that 1 in a billion chance that the aircraft needs emergency evacuation), if I were a bean counter, I would strip the inflight crew to the minimum required by the FAA for safety. Delta has been flying with only a single FA in First for months now.

It's a little draconian, I admit, but since the American carriers have opted to become nothing more than Greyhound Bus service with wings, why not try to improve the profit margin? (Heaven forbid you drop unprofitable routes, or charge a reasonable and fare price for the service you are providing...)
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EXMEMWIDGET
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 11):
Didn't AA already remove the ovens from the MD-80's as a weight reduction measure??

Yes, AA did remove the coach cabin ovens on the S80 a few years ago. They simply covered over the remaining empty space with a thin sheet of metal.
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Neither of you have given any specifics of the new seat pitch on each aircraft type.

The seat pitch is now 32"-33", IIRC, which is above the industry-standard 31". American removed two rows of seating from the MD80 during the MRTC reconfiguration in 2000. The old configuration (pre-MRTC) was industry-standard. However, last year, when they added seats back, they only added back one row -- one less than they removed. So, essentially, it was a net removal of one row, which means that it is still above the industry-standard.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
"Above the industry standard" doesn't mean much to me. Can you please give me cold hard facts about the post-MRTC pitch with a link or two to back them up? Thanks-in-advance.

"On the MD80 and 737 aircraft, only one of the two rows of coach seats originally removed will be added back to those airplanes."

From American Airlines' press release of 20 October 2004 available here.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18):
I hope AA uses the oportunity to cut down on the number of MD-80 configurations to at most 2 and I would hope 1. Can anyone tell me why there are 3 configurations? TWA? MRCR transitions?

They will be standardized to more or less one configuration. The first config mentioned in reply 3 is the standard AA MD-80. The second and third are from TWA... the differences being the aft galley. Once these galleys are replaced, the only difference in the MD-80 fleet will be the placement of the first class lav and closet, which is a minimal difference and will effectively render a single configuration.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
I would strip the inflight crew to the minimum

This has already occurred... the extra flight attendant has been removed from the staffing formula for most narrow-body domestic flying.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Can you please give me cold hard facts about the post-MRTC pitch with a link or two to back them up?

The industry standard in coach is a 30-31" seat pitch. According to SeatGuru.com, the pitch on AA's MD-80s varies between 31-33". It is noted the 31" seat pitch is in the AB seats aft of the exit row, otherwise you still have decent leg room. Also keep in mind when AA created MRTC, they removed two rows of seats from every aircraft. With the exception of the A300 and 757, only ONE row was added back to the aircraft.

http://seatguru.com/airlines/America...rlines/American_Airlines_MD-80.php
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
aa1818
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:34 am

I actually choose AA over other carriers. With the exception of CO, my experiences on US Airlines in general have been horrible. But crossing the Atlantic on AA has been extremely confortable in Y and the occassional trip in B-Class has been wonderful. I think it's a great idea for them to add extra seats to ensure economic viability. If you want to fly for the 'glitz and glamour', then fly in first class (or business to a lesser extent), other than that, air-travel is just an efficient and effective means of transporting large(ish) numbers of people from point A to B. Long live AA. It sure beats flying on the trashy airlines from my 'neck of the woods' a la BW and AJ and various charters.

AA1818
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Okie
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:42 am

The configuration 3 is a TWA configuration with a single row of seats behind the rear galley.
TWA always filled those seats last and if the plane was not full then non revs would use them or occasionally FA's would use them on long flights.

I had to sit in the "penalty box" once, felt like I had regressed back to grade school or the group "W" bench.

Okie
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 22):
The first config mentioned in reply 3 is the standard AA MD-80. The second and third are from TWA... the differences being the aft galley.

Thanks for the info.  bigthumbsup  So it will be to one configuration. Good.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 21):
"On the MD80 and 737 aircraft, only one of the two rows of coach seats originally removed will be added back to those airplanes."

Also good information.

AA seems to be looking ahead and keeping their airline ready for the future. While this change is overall small, it will help. (As did rationalizing the fleet distribution.) I expect AA and CO to do well.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
(Heaven forbid you drop unprofitable routes, or charge a reasonable and fare price for the service you are providing...)

Ummm... we're in a fare stimulated demand environment. As to dropping unprofitable routes, AA seems to be starting that process... We'll ignore the obvious exception to keep this topic on track.

Lightsaber
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skyhigh777
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:20 am

I wish they still served meals on planes...those were the days i guess  weeping 

At least it will bring more money in for American, hopefully.
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ChiGB1973
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:26 am

I remember, not too long ago, when AA was promoting their removal of seats for extra leg room. The good ole days are going (have gone).

When I flew for TZ, there was extra storage, ie, slide one cabinet out and there was another, for long flights or charters that required extra space. It was not uncommon for me to find extra stashes of water bottles and other supplies. These are quite heavy. With the price of fuel, airlines are probably more aware of things like this. That being said, removing the galleys, ovens, etc will conserve fuel and take out some electrical work, not only saving fuel because of weight, but saving on maintenance costs. Plus, the FAs probably used the ovens to warm up their sandwiches (I did) and other food they brought with them. The value of this goes much beyond weight and capacity issues. Multiply all this times 329*, then a substantial savings is in order.

* http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/American_Airlines

M
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
I suppose this makes sense, but I'd like to see a drawing of the new setup so I'll reserve judgement. One concern I have, however, is the industry is constantly complaining about how there is too much capacity. How does adding nearly 1,300 seats to your inventory reduce capacity? With this new configuration there will be 16 first class and 124 main cabin seats.

It is so nice to have so many "industry experts" here on a.net. This move makes COMPLETE sense, replacing dead weight with profit making seats. Adding this many seats without adding additional aircraft means that they can only make money. If the seats fly empty, it would be just like it was before the reconfiguration. However, if they are able to sell these seats, then they are making more money than before, with little expense relative to purchasing new aircraft.

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
Just another move to completely wipe the TWA name off AA's slate



Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
I personally tend to avoid AA, but I still think this is a smart move on their part.



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
personally, I avoid AA like the plague. Never had a nice flight on them in all my travels.

It's nice to say that you "avoid" an airline, but you should provide a rational explanation as to why. Personally, I find it absolutely ridiculous to avoid AA. They are one of the few airlines remaining that is not in bankruptcy. Granted, it's not making money, but it seems to be doing SOMETHING right. I don't fly any other airlines, but I find it hard to believe that the service in the other US carriers on short and medium haul flights is MUCH better than AA. I know, fans of UA and CO are going to flame me with their comments about how they get better service on their favorite airlines. My question is whether or not the service is significantly better.
My experience with AA is that I get excellent service all the time. As I have posted in previous threads, it usually starts with the fact that I am nice to the flight attendants and they tend to return that nice appearance with great service.
So, back to topic, adding four seats to a plane only helps ensure that AA will hopefully make a speedy recovery and start showing a profit soon.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
It's a little draconian, I admit, but since the American carriers have opted to become nothing more than Greyhound Bus service with wings, why not try to improve the profit margin? (Heaven forbid you drop unprofitable routes, or charge a reasonable and fare price for the service you are providing...)

I can FLY2LIM on AA for very low fares. They compete with WN in California/Nevada and have similar fares. I think their fares are quite reasonable.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 23):
I actually choose AA over other carriers. With the exception of CO, my experiences on US Airlines in general have been horrible. But crossing the Atlantic on AA has been extremely confortable in Y and the occassional trip in B-Class has been wonderful. I think it's a great idea for them to add extra seats to ensure economic viability. If you want to fly for the 'glitz and glamour', then fly in first class (or business to a lesser extent), other than that, air-travel is just an efficient and effective means of transporting large(ish) numbers of people from point A to B. Long live AA. It sure beats flying on the trashy airlines from my 'neck of the woods' a la BW and AJ and various charters.

Welcome to my respected users list. I would love for some of the a.nutters to come fly some of the airlines in the third world. Makes AA look like Emirates in first class.  Smile

FLY2LIM
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ca2ohHP
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:46 am

I give AA credit on this. They don't go to their employees for (more) concessions, or cut pensions. They think outside the box, unlike most other legacies.
 
crjflyer35
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:49 am

I've only flown AA 4 or 5 times in my commercial av. days, but all my Mad-Dog flights weren't the greatest, although, could be because I was literally next to the engine, in my own row, with a bulkhead to the front and rear, luckily that was only to and fro TUS-DFW. My last flight was actually very nice, NRT-ORD-NRT, First and Biz, so there's really no comparison.

Good luck to AA, I'd like to see one of the US legacy carriers back in the black.
Ok, wait for the RJ to pass, cleared to push tail south Mike, and you're cleared to spin #2 in the push.
 
whitehatter
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:40 am

Galleys are not only heavy to constantly fly round but also maintenance heavy. Especially older ones where they are starting to become prone to faults.

It really does make sense to cut back on them for shorthaul aircraft.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
707lvr
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:53 am

All those LAV's take up a lot of room too. They'll go next.
 
xjramper
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 21):
The seat pitch is now 32"-33", IIRC, which is above the industry-standard 31". American removed two rows of seating from the MD80 during the MRTC reconfiguration in 2000. The old configuration (pre-MRTC) was industry-standard. However, last year, when they added seats back, they only added back one row -- one less than they removed. So, essentially, it was a net removal of one row, which means that it is still above the industry-standard.

Wow....a whole inch more. For someone who is 6'5" 32-33 inches isn't a whole lot.

From the looks of it, your beloved AA has 31-32 inches:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...ican_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_A.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...ican_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_P.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...rlines/American_Airlines_MD-80.php

Huh...DL has the same amount of room:

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del..._Airlines/Delta_Airlines_MD-88.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del...elta_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_A.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del...elta_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_B.php

Argue what you want, the room isn't there.

-----------------------------

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 28):
It's nice to say that you "avoid" an airline, but you should provide a rational explanation as to why. Personally, I find it absolutely ridiculous to avoid AA. They are one of the few airlines remaining that is not in bankruptcy. Granted, it's not making money, but it seems to be doing SOMETHING right. I don't fly any other airlines, but I find it hard to believe that the service in the other US carriers on short and medium haul flights is MUCH better than AA.

LOL. Personally is an opinion as is someone who says that they don't like AA. Yet you find it "ridiculous to avoid AA....[when you] don't fly any other airlines". Kind of hard to make a statement like that when you haven't tried anything else.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
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AA777223
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:41 am

As an AA customer, and one that lives in Dallas, I have certainly flown on my share of MD-80s. I think it makes sense. Less weight, more commonality among the fleet, and more passengers will certainly not hurt. Why people are complaining about it, I don't understand. Those seats are certain to have the same pitch as all the other rows, and depending upon which galley is removed, it might just make one more row of seats behind the door, making another EXIT ROW  bigthumbsup ! I usually do not waste an upgrade on a super 80, so will be happy to have a potential extra exit row to occupy. This is the kind of smart thinking that has kept AA out of bankruptcy...(I'm sure gonna hear about that one!)
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jacobin777
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 28):
Welcome to my respected users list. I would love for some of the a.nutters to come fly some of the airlines in the third world. Makes AA look like Emirates in first class

I fly AA about 90% of my flights, of which 70% are on the Mad-Dog 80s (in fact, I'm flying this week from SJC-ORD one one)...

their service is fine, and the tickets are very cheap.......

I just bring my own meals, and my own laptop with a power converter and I'm completely good to go........

eat healthy meals which I like and get entertainment that I want.....not to mention get more work done

also, what I've noticed is that a lot of people now bring their own "personal entertainment" such as ipods, dvd players, laptops, etc.

I think AA has taken advantage of this by not outfitting their planes with PTV's, etc.
"Up the Irons!"
 
commavia
Posts: 9791
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Xjramper (Reply 33):
Wow....a whole inch more. For someone who is 6'5" 32-33 inches isn't a whole lot.

Do you fly AA a lot? From my personal experience, one inch of legroom makes a considerable difference for many people.
 
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United787
Posts: 2206
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 32):
All those LAV's take up a lot of room too. They'll go next.

Imagine how many more paying customers you could get on each plane. Maybe they can just put a hole in the bottom of each seat and place a "sanitary bag" under the seat.
 
LMP737
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:09 am

One thing I would like to see AA do is to remove the main deck four bunk crew rest from the 777 that sit in the middle of coach. Removing it and having the crew rest relocated to the overhead would allow at least another ten seats to be added to coach. However I have feeling it will be a while before this were to happen.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
xjramper
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 36):
Do you fly AA a lot? From my personal experience, one inch of legroom makes a considerable difference for many people.

Ive flown my fair share of AA flights, and trust me one inch doesn't make a difference. I flew airtran a couple of weeks ago and i was in their 737-700's BizClass. My knees barely had clearance (my knees were still touching the seat infront of me) and their pitch, iirc is 37 inches.

Don't get me wrong, im not trying to knock AA, im just pointing out that their claim is very very unfound, but not false.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
fraspotter
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Contrails (Reply 12):
I think AA's new slogan should be "cramming passengers into the plane, that's what we do best".

It's all about money....
"Taking off is optional. It’s landing that’s mandatory."
 
hiflyer
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:03 am

Removing galley's and adding seats is a good move even though on an older, less efficent fleet. I would surmise that this may be a first, less costly, move towards keeping the md80 fleet flying due to not able to replace them in their current financial situation.

The question would be is this a short term stop gap to stem, at least a bit, losses or is it the preliminary step towards the oft mentioned long term re-engine program.
 
TPASXM787
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RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:37 am

Wow those will be some sought-after seats too. Always love next to the engine on a DC-9 series.

For a moment I hoped it said "AA to Remove MD-80s"

Ah well, I guess I can't have everything.
This is the Last Stop.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4734
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
Makes sense to me. The airlines are no longer serving food, and passenger comfort is non existent to begin with, so why not pack in a few more? And I hate to say this, but since the primary responsibilty of a flight attendant is to SERVE food (except for that 1 in a billion chance that the aircraft needs emergency evacuation), if I were a bean counter, I would strip the inflight crew to the minimum required by the FAA for safety. Delta has been flying with only a single FA in First for months now.

First of all, the primary responsibility of the F/As is passenger safety. In-flight service is a secondary responsibility. A friend of mine, who is an AA pilot, has repeatedly said that the FAA doesn't care whether the F/As serve a meal, a pop, or pretzels, but they do care about all aspects of safety.

Second, the last time I was on an MD-80 that had more than 3 F/As, the FAA miniumum, was 1999. I was flying ORD-YYC-ORD and had a hot meal both ways.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Neither of you have given any specifics of the new seat pitch on each aircraft type. "Above the industry standard" doesn't mean much to me. Can you please give me cold hard facts about the post-MRTC pitch with a link or two to back them up? Thanks-in-advance.

I can't give you a link, but I recall that pre-MRTC, the last row of coach on the MD-80 was row 33, with 125 seats in coach. During MRTC, it was row 31, with 115 seats in coach. Now, it is row 32, with 120 seats in coach.
 
UAFAN17
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:51 am

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 29):
I give AA credit on this. They don't go to their employees for (more) concessions, or cut pensions. They think outside the box, unlike most other legacies.

Well AA did cut salaries and ask for concessions a while back, and IIRC AA is the only airline that operates MD-80s at this point with more than 2 galleys, and airlines like United dont operate aircraft with more than one galley in coach. I also have to say that on seatguru.com it also states that Delta and United both have 31-33" Pitch on most of their planes. In United's case on its A320's for example if you take the economy plus pitch of 36 inches of 36 seats which are about 29% of the cabin and you take the pitch of the regular economy seats 31" which equal 71% of the economy cabin, then you multiply 36 times .28 and 31 times .71 and then add the numbers together.You get an average weighted pitch of 32". I dont know if this is entirely accurate but i figured i would try it.
 
zchannel
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Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:49 am

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 37):
Quoting 707lvr (Reply 32):
All those LAV's take up a lot of room too. They'll go next.

Imagine how many more paying customers you could get on each plane. Maybe they can just put a hole in the bottom of each seat and place a "sanitary bag" under the seat.

Or they can install pay toilets to generate extra revenue. But, that may not work because any revenue generated by the pay toilets would be offset by the extra fuel needed to carry the weight of the change machine that would have to be installed directly next to the pay toilets...  Big grin
ZChannel: Member FDIC
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
And I hate to say this, but since the primary responsibilty of a flight attendant is to SERVE food (except for that 1 in a billion chance that the aircraft needs emergency evacuation)

No, the primary responsibility of an F/A is NOT to serve food, that is just maximisation of our time. The primary role of an F/A is safey; but unlike what many people think, this safety role is not just about evacuations (no need to say emergency evacuation buddy, as they're only an emrgency procdeure anyway).

As for the 1 in a billion chance of an evacuation; yes they are unlikely (not as unlikely as you stated, but still), but let's not forget the other safety related roles which F/As do on a daily basis. Who ensures cabins are secure, who administers first aid to sick pax (and yes, this happens a LOT more than people often think), who deals with unruly pax (again, not that uncommon) etc etc etc...

I am the first to understand that many people do no understand fully the function, or indeed purpose of cabin crew, but before you go making statements, perhaps a little knowledge might help.
Cheers
 
ckfred
Posts: 4734
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:41 pm

Here's what I don't understand about the airline industry.

Twenty years ago, it was uncommon to find a hotel room that had an alarm clock, iron and ironing board, shampoo and other toiletries, and a coffeemaker. These items are common, even in lower-priced chains such as Hampton and Fairfield.

Then there is free food. Many hotels offer free breakfasts, and elite guests get light dinners for free.

The war between the hotel chains is over beds and bedding. Every chain has its own mattress, such as Westin's Heavenly Bed, as well as luxury sheets, blankets, pillows, bedspreads, etc.

What I find interesting is that Starwood Lodging, the owner of Westin and Sheraton, believes that the upgraded mattresses and bedding has realized an extra $15 per room, per night. Marriott anticipates that it will be able to raises rates $20 to $30 per room, per night, depending on the brand.

Hyatt is replacing TVs with wall-mounted plasma units.

Rental cars have also gone upscale. Several years ago, I rented a standard car from Hertz. The standard car was a Taurus, with a JBL sound system, leather seats, and moonroof. That may explain why Hertz tends to be more expensive than National or Avis.

So, why is it that hotel chains and rental car companies can add amenities and service and charge higher rates to cover the additional costs, while airlines can't?

AA likes to say that it offers more than LCCs. Well, it does, if you are willing to pay for an Admiral's Club membership, you fly enough to achieve Gold status or higher (i.e., get upgrades to First) or fly to Europe, South America, or Asia.

But, if you are fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to only rack up 20,000 miles annually, flying solely domestic routes, and don't have an employer willing to pay for the Admiral's club, then there is littel to distinguish AA from the LCCs. Frontier, JetBlue, and AirTran have satallite IFE, while the MD-80s don't. Southwest has peanuts, while AA got rid of pretzels. The only two things AA has over Southwest are assigned seating and seats with adjustable headrests.

Even CO still has hot meals in coach, and CO has been doing better than AA, financially.

I think this is a bone-headed decision. AA ought to bring back free, hot meal service, at least on longer routes, then market the hell out of it. I'm no marketing expert, but a good ad executive could come up with ads showing disappointed passengers getting peanuts; a passenger sitting at the gate, spilling his drink on his suit; an executive sitting in a meeting, thinking about how hungry he is; or someone checking into a hotel, only to find out that the restaurant just closed.

The idea, of course, is that AA then charges higher fares. I know that MRTC failed, but I believe that AA did a poor job of marketing. The advertising only ran in AA's major markets, such as New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. The ads were never run nationally.
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting ZChannel (Reply 45):
Or they can install pay toilets to generate extra revenue. But, that may not work because any revenue generated by the pay toilets would be offset by the extra fuel needed to carry the weight of the change machine that would have to be installed directly next to the pay toilets...

Not to mention the extra cleanup costs/bad PR from having to deal with those "who just gotta go" and are offended by the prospect of having to pay do do it in a special room, if you know what I mean...

I really think this makes sense for AA... even if those seats never get used, they're bound to way much less than the galley and don't require anywhere near as much maintenance attention... not to mention that it means a greater chance that you won't get stuck in a middle seat on a less than full flight.

Lincoln
[And for the person who asked, yes, CO has provided me with markedly better inflight service than any other airline I've flown in the past 5 or so years (Mainline: AA, AS, CO, DL, NW, UA, US, WN)]
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
OHLBU
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:35 am

RE: AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:38 pm

Finnair did the same with their MD-80s a few years ago when they began using them mostly for economy class only-routes. This brought 7 new seats and a somewhat tricky trim and balance.

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