gf-a330
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Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:22 am

MUSCAT, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Gulf Air announced on Monday plans to spend $900 million to replace 9 aging Boeing 767s but did not name the aircraft it intended to buy.

James Hogan, chief executive officer of Gulf Air, told reporters the airline would seek a long-term loan to finance the purchase once approved by the airline owners, the governments of Bahrain and Oman.

Gulf Air, which returned to profitability in 2004 after years of losses, carries a debt of about $500 million.


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"Our idea is to change the type of aircraft to two within ten years from four now," he said after a board meeting in Muscat, which will become the airline's other hub in March.

Hogan said the Manama-based Gulf Air, which operates a fleet of 34 aircraft, would start placing orders by May. He said the airline also plans to refurbish its fleet but did not give further details.

Abu Dhabi, which launched its own airline in 2004, has announced its intention to withdraw from Gulf Air. Abu Dhabi and other former co-owner Qatar have injected millions of dollars to keep the airline afloat in its red years.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:39 am

Gulf Air has a long history, I can remember their VC-10s at Heathrow a long time ago. However, the concept of a pan-Arabian airline seems to have runs its course. I hope they can survive and prosper, but it looks pretty tough for them.

I assume the two types would be A320s plus one type to replace the 767s and eventually also the A330s and A340s. Looks like either the A350 or 787 would fit the bill for the widebodies.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
CO7e7
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
I can remember their VC-10s at Heathrow a long time ago

I'm assuming you're talking about this bird here:

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I hope they paint them with any of these livery:

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These liveries are BEAUTIFUL!
 
skibum9
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:38 am

I bet DL is wishing they had some money to tak them off of Gulf's hands. They need more 767ERs for their international expansion and they have experience with these aircraft, having taken some of Gulf's 767s in the past.
Tailwinds!!!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 2):
I'm assuming you're talking about this bird here:

I think they had more than one. I remember they carried their old BOAC registrations for some time before they were changed to A4O-.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
cloud4000
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:01 pm

Does this include the aircraft operated by Gulf Traveler too?

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
Gulf Air has a long history, I can remember their VC-10s at Heathrow a long time ago. However, the concept of a pan-Arabian airline seems to have runs its course. I hope they can survive and prosper, but it looks pretty tough for them

Qatar is out. Abu Dhabi is out. How soon will Oman Air push Gulf Air out of Muscat?
Boston, USA
 
FCKC
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:28 pm

Did they say , when they will these new planes to be delivered ?
If it's before 2008 , so they will go A330 , if they can wait for a few years more , another A350/787 battle in sight.
The second type could be A32X , if they wish to stay with a narrow body type in their fleet.
In fact it could be 737NG , if Boeing offers them a very advantageous package , including wide bodies.
But we have heard they were studying regional jets , such as the ERJ170 family.
So their order , could be :
-A330/A320 (or ERJ)
or
-A350/A320 (or ERJ)
or
-787/737NG (or ERJ)

Till 4 months to know the answer
 
kaitak744
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 6):
A330/A320 (or ERJ)

Name one reason why so? An airline replacing 767s for long term? Its either 787 or A350.
 
dalecary
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:07 pm

A very good chance for a 350 order IMO. IIRC Hogan was quoted last year(can't remember if it was FI or another publication) as saying there was every chance GF would be supplied by one manufacturer in the future and they would narrow their fleet to 2 types(1 NB and 1 WB). The only Boeing's in the fleet are the 763s and they are going, which could point to advantage Airbus IMO.
I'm sure it is a 787 v 350 battle, and I would be most surprised to see the 330 involved. GF seem to know their place and don't have wild expansion plans of other carriers in the region. Hogan is pretty keen to keep the fleet at around 30-40 total for the near to mid term.
 
behramjee
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:31 pm

The key point in this article says 9 aircraft to be bought for US $ 900 million which means after all discounts they are spending US $ 100 million per frame for either a B 787 or A 350.

However, it is worth mentioning that the GF CEO of the late 1980s who ordered from Boeing these 9 B 767-300ERs had signed a clause which said that if GF were to ever phase out its B 767s then it could be only sold back to Boeing and no other airline.

Therefore do not be surprised to see a "trade off" deal signed with Boeing where by GF buys B 787s and gets some sort of cash back facility for selling these B 763s back to Boeing hence increasing their discount OR enabling them to squeeze in a few more aircraft into the order i.e 1 or 2.

A similar sort of deal was signed by Boeing and SQ-Singapore Airlines in 1998 where by Boeing bought SQs A 343s in exchange for an order for 20+ B 777s from SQ.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:17 pm

I always liked their 763ER setup, with the 2L and 2R doors...people at DL will remark that they're a pain to work, but I like actually being able to board a widebody from mid, where FC traffic and therefore coach traffic is cut in half. Should have been standard on all 767's IMHO.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
RICARDOAB
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:14 pm

Did I read somewhere in one of the forums late last year that GF had struck a deal with Boeing for 737-800's, or was that another middle-eastern airline?
 
backfire
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:55 pm

Not really new, IMHO. Gulf Air has been talking about replacing the 767s for ages.
 
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PM
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:30 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 8):
I'm sure it is a 787 v 350 battle, and I would be most surprised to see the 330 involved.

You're probably right but a few years back (pre Hogan?) Gulf actually announced that they were going to standardise on the A330-200 as their principal (only?) widebody aircraft. It never happened. Might it yet?

Another trivial point of interest is that Gulf seem to have suffered from indecision for a while. They had GE-powered 777s on order in the early 1990s and then cancelled them to order RR-powered A330-300s which they then switched to A330-200s (some of which they then leased to TAM).
 
DTManiac
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:38 pm

Hmmm, I am not the only one who finds their livery stunning, am I? Awesome paint job.

Regards

Frederik
Gig 'em Aggies!!!
 
kappel
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 14):
Hmmm, I am not the only one who finds their livery stunning, am I? Awesome paint job.

You most certainly are not. I actually find their gold livery even better looking than their "special" liveries as pointed out in reply 2.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
bucky707
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 10):
I always liked their 763ER setup, with the 2L and 2R doors...people at DL will remark that they're a pain to work, but I like actually being able to board a widebody from mid, where FC traffic and therefore coach traffic is cut in half. Should have been standard on all 767's IMHO.

Not sure, but I think Delta did pick up a 763ER from Gulf Air back in the late 90s.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 16):
Not sure, but I think Delta did pick up a 763ER from Gulf Air back in the late 90s.

DL has a few (6 I believe) -3P6ERs in the fleet. I always thought it was odd as the FA's referred to them as 767Gulf a/c.

I prefer the 767 with the 2L/R door combo vs. four overwings...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):
Quoting FCKC (Reply 6):A330/A320 (or ERJ)
Name one reason why so? An airline replacing 767s for long term? Its either 787 or A350.

Same reason as Finnair and the 340 and TP with the 330:
Availability.
When I doubt... go running!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:20 am

Well, with 9 B-767-300ERs coming on the market, soon, there could be a lot of airlines interested in them. Sorry, I don't know a lot about GF.

Since DL already took some of these airplanes, I assume they are GE engines (sorry, I cannot open the pictures today, for some reason). I doubt DL can afford to pick up a few more of the GF B-767-300ERs, even though they need them.

But I think TZ can get them. Wasn't TZ looking for 5-6 GE equipped B-767-300ERs to begin replacing the L-1011-500s for their military charters?

I believe North American is also looking for a few more to add to their fleet, also for the military charters.

UA may also want a few additional B-767-300ERs, but I thought they needed P&W engines.

There is also a rumor that AA will drop the former TW B-767-300ERs (GE), also, when the leases are up (along with the former TW B-757-200 {P&W}), as they don't fit well within the AA B-767 fleet. I believe we already know that AC will be getting rid of their B-767-300ERs as their B-787-800s and B-777-200ERs begin arriving.

So, could we see several used B-767-300ERs suddenly become available in the next 4-5 years?
 
zamaria
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:28 am

Having flown in Gulf Traveller's B767s a few times in the last few years (from AUH to TRV via MCT), these are really dingy aircraft in desperate need of replacement, or perhaps just a good scrubbing. Anyone know anything about the age and history of these aircraft?

While spending the money to upgrade their aircraft, they might as well spend money to send their crews to finishing school as I routinely encountered rude and downright nasty staff - not only on the India flights, but flights to and from Europe as well.

However, I could always count on free and wildly hilarious in-flight entertainment consisting of some poor soul(s) being berated by members of the Gulf crew for seemingly no reason. One guy, admittedly quite drunk, was threatened with immediate removal from the aircraft by a flight crewmember who was foaming at the mouth. I couldn't help noticing that we were cruising at 37,000 feet above the Arabian Sea at the time.

-Z
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
think they had more than one. I remember they carried their old BOAC registrations for some time before they were changed to A4O-.

GF operated 5 VC10 in early 1970s, until replaced by the Tristar. They all went to the RAF as tankers
 
kappel
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
But I think TZ can get them. Wasn't TZ looking for 5-6 GE equipped B-767-300ERs to begin replacing the L-1011-500s for their military charters?

Yes, but they wanted RR powered 763's. Since they couldn't find them (duh) the L1011's went for D-checks.

Quoting Zamaria (Reply 20):
Anyone know anything about the age and history of these aircraft?

Airfleets.net shows them being between 16 and 13 years old (from oldest to youngest). However, they only show 4 aircraft. Don't know about the other 5.
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PM
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting Zamaria (Reply 20):
Anyone know anything about the age and history of these aircraft?

Built 1989 (3), 1992 (2), 1993 (2) and 1994 (2). Boeing lists that Gulf have bought 20 (!) 767-300ERs over the years.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting GF-A330 (Thread starter):
Our idea is to change the type of aircraft to two within ten years from four now," he said after a board meeting in Muscat, which will become the airline's other hub in March.

I was wondering, A-340 and A-330 or Airbus and Boeing.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9):
it is worth mentioning that the GF CEO of the late 1980s who ordered from Boeing these 9 B 767-300ERs had signed a clause which said that if GF were to ever phase out its B 767s then it could be only sold back to Boeing and no other airline

I wonder if there was a time clause or something to that effect. I can't really see Boeing's interest 12 to 17 years later, especially if GF decided to go Airbus. Boeing would have these 767s and no new order. Of course, now that is a good deal because of the desire for 763 aircraft. Is there a link or something to the effect?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
But I think TZ can get them. Wasn't TZ looking for 5-6 GE equipped B-767-300ERs to begin replacing the L-1011-500s for their military charters?

Great, but this is going to be years down the road, not even deciding what will replace them. By that time, WN will have TZ flying to Europe and beyond with 787s. I liked it anyway.

M
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 24):
Great, but this is going to be years down the road, not even deciding what will replace them. By that time, WN will have TZ flying to Europe and beyond with 787s. I liked it anyway.

 bigthumbsup 
 
Horus
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Backfire (Reply 12):
Not really new, IMHO. Gulf Air has been talking about replacing the 767s for ages.

Indeed. This rumour has been circulating since 2000. Hopefully this time they actually act on it.

Quoting RICARDOAB (Reply 11):
Did I read somewhere in one of the forums late last year that GF had struck a deal with Boeing for 737-800's, or was that another middle-eastern airline?

Did you perhaps confuse them with Egyptair who ordered the B738 last year?

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 26):
Did you perhaps confuse them with Egyptair who ordered the B738 last year?

Did someone mentioned that GF will order some 73G to replace A320s?
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
Horus
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:53 pm

Here is that topic:
Gulf Air: 19x 737 NGs? (by GF-A330 Dec 17 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 28):

I knew I've read about it somewhere. Thanks  bigthumbsup 
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