hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:40 am

LH Corporate Sales Director confirmed today that LH will suspend LH FRA-GRU-SCL A346 daily as of May/2006.

LH FRA-GRU-EZE B747 will remain, as well as LH codeshare with RG on GRU-FRA B777 daily, GIG-FRA B777/MD-11 daily and GRU-MUC MD-11 3 x week.

It is expected that LX will extend its GRU flight operating as of May/2006 ZRH-GRU-SCL A343, so as to guarantee that the Chilean market remains in the network of LH/LX.

Very strange move exactly before the World Cup.

Any views?

Rgs,
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
It is expected that LX will extend its GRU flight operating as of May/2006 ZRH-GRU-SCL A343

Why don't they simply codeshare with RG instead of letting a LX 343 fly the GRU-SCL route?

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:55 am

The info I have is that the suspension is temporary... 8 months, then all will be back. Now I'm not sure if that applies to SCL aswell?

Also, the MUC flights have been packed as per my source (panrotas), and LH mentioned the possibilities of extra flights during the World Cup.

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:37 am

its a shame that LH cuts SCL....

LA will be happy!

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):
LA will be happy!

AF as well...they will start CDG-SCL NONSTOP!!!!

Rgs,
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
AF as well...they will start CDG-SCL NONSTOP!!!!

they are running SCL since months on some days of the week nonstop ( I think 4 x weekly)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:48 am

Indeed all benefits for AF and LAN !!

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:49 am

is there any official source? because LH ist still selling the flight (in July) for exmaple...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 2:04 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:54 am

The info I have from a LH source is that the flight to SCL will be operated by Swiss, routing ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-ZRH, or at least this is the most possible thing to happen.

It is also important to notice that, according the same source, the SCL flight is not very profitable to LH and this was/is the main reason for them leaving the route with the summer timetable.

Cheers

RS
"ad astra per aspera"
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting S.p.a.s. (Reply 8):
The info I have from a LH source is that the flight to SCL will be operated by Swiss, routing ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-ZRH, or at least this is the most possible thing to happen.

It is also important to notice that, according the same source, the SCL flight is not very profitable to LH and this was/is the main reason for them leaving the route with the summer timetable.

as posted above LH is still selling SCL for the summer timetable with the same flight number than always LH526/LH527
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:09 am

If the rumor about LX taking over is true, why does anyone think that LX would be able to perform better in SCL than LH previously did? It's not like the market between Chile and Switzerland is booming...Does LX have lower costs than LH?
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
If the rumor about LX taking over is true, why does anyone think that LX would be able to perform better in SCL than LH previously did? It's not like the market between Chile and Switzerland is booming...Does LX have lower costs than LH?

very good question!!!! better to say for LX it would be even more difficult to fill the flights (at least from SCL) as Swiss is not as good known in Chile than LH.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Thomas_Jaeger
Posts: 2203
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:35 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:39 am

There is not necessarily a big market between Switzerland and Chile but if the aircraft is sitting on the ground in GRU anyway, it makes it worthwhile. It will allow them to switch passenger in GRU from FRA/MUC/ZRH to EZE/SCL.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
If the rumor about LX taking over is true, why does anyone think that LX would be able to perform better in SCL than LH previously did? It's not like the market between Chile and Switzerland is booming...Does LX have lower costs than LH?

As explained in 12 above. You remove a whole A346 of the route, this is a major capacity cut, not only for SCL but for GRU as well!

Quoting Avianca (Reply 9):
LH is still selling SCL for the summer timetable with the same flight number than always LH526/LH527

This was breaking news. You can expect their reservation system to be updated very soon, they are still working out how to tackle the GRU-SCL segment (whether LX operated - most likely- or RG codeshare).

Rgs,
 
slider
Posts: 6806
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:07 am

SCL is a difficult market, to be honest, and that tag flight just might not have had the oomph necessary to sustain it for LH.
 
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 2:04 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:43 am

Hardiwv,

What is most intriguing is that, according my source, LH might operate the GRU-SCL-GRU flight with LH flight number and crew, but using the LX A340 as equipment. This is was/is at least one of the possibilities seen by LH South America.

Cheers

RS
"ad astra per aspera"
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):
Also, the MUC flights have been packed as per my source (panrotas), and LH mentioned the possibilities of extra flights during the World Cup.

Do you happen to mean RG´s GRU-MUC flights ? LH currently doesn´t fly MUC-South America.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Mason
Posts: 636
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 12:01 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:20 am

Great! Now they can use the A346 for FRA-SEA. Seriously, it's only a matter of time. BA is even sending 10 or 11X weekly 744 LHR-SEA this summer! Someone wised up! Getting back to the point, sad for SCL. I remember when LH flew 744s into SCL. Any news on KL coming back? Mabye an extension on their new AMS-LIM flight? Or too much capacity already on LIM-SCL? Just thoughts.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):

A shame for South America. LH joins BA with only one daily flight to the entire continent while they upgrade more and more Asia. Funny that they decided to run (or increase) a route, so they will drop a flight to provide the necessary planes.

Bad news for Brazil-Germany also and as posted above the winners are LA, RG and AF. RG will be top winner, the king of South America-Germany flights with 17 weekly non stop flights.

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 15):
What is most intriguing is that, according my source, LH might operate the GRU-SCL-GRU flight with LH flight number and crew, but using the LX A340 as equipment. This is was/is at least one of the possibilities seen by LH South America.

I can't understand why not c/s Varig RG8720/8721 flight GRU-SCL-GRU-GIG.
This flight provide connections to both FRA flights (8740 GRU, 8744 GIG) and MUC.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
LH joins BA with only one daily flight to the entire continent while they upgrade more and more Asia

dont forget the 5xweekly FRA-CCS run, if LH will really close SCL

we will see daily FRA-GRU-EZE, and 5xweekly FRA-CCS

really a shame.... good days are gone when LH served the complete continent
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 15):
What is most intriguing is that, according my source, LH might operate the GRU-SCL-GRU flight with LH flight number and crew, but using the LX A340 as equipment. This is was/is at least one of the possibilities seen by LH South America.

Correct. I have the same information. They would keep LH crew in GRU to run LX GRU-SCL. This mainly because sources mention that the LH A346 cut is only temporary, and would most likely come back to the network by the end of the year or when aircraft becomes available.

I also got rumours that the change involves LX increasing flights to GRU to daily operations; so we could expect LX to cut on some other routes.

One has to understand that LH and LX would have, some day, to start adjusting their netwok and schedule, but the cut of the A346 was indeed a big surprise.

Quoting Mason (Reply 17):
Great! Now they can use the A346 for FRA-SEA.

No! LH will use the aircraft to increase capacity in Asia.

Quoting Mason (Reply 17):
Any news on KL coming back? Mabye an extension on their new AMS-LIM flight?

KL will not extend LIM, which can keep a nonstop flight alone (as KL will probably do very soon). SCL is AF market and in the future we could see AFF operating SCL nonstop daily.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
RG will be top winner, the king of South America-Germany flights with 17 weekly non stop flights.

Correct. And note that FRA-GRU and FRA-GIG are RG's top routes in profitability.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
dont forget the 5xweekly FRA-CCS run, if LH will really close SCL

I forget about this one, thanks for remember me Avianca.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
kiwiandrew

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 20):
but the cut of the A346 was indeed a big surprise.

not really a surprise I would have thought , it is a large a/c to run nearly empty ( some of the previous threads have been quoting loads of 50-80 pax on the GRU-SCL leg ) and the rumours have been around for quite a while that it would be pulled
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 22):
not really a surprise I would have thought , it is a large a/c to run nearly empty ( some of the previous threads have been quoting loads of 50-80 pax on the GRU-SCL leg ) and the rumours have been around for quite a while that it would be pulled

But loads on the FRA-GRU run were always very high, about 80 to 90%, so the surprise was more on the cut of the aircraft to GRU, since LH will now only operate one daily B747 to GRU (and sharing capacity of EZE)...detail: during World Cup. For me, a huge surprise.

In addition, the B747 has the old seats on business class, which will damage LH image in a very competitive market such as GRU. I dont know how wa LX performance on GRU, and whether LX will indeed increase its flights from 5 to daily, which could alleviate the cut in capacity.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 23):
In addition, the B747 has the old seats on business class, which will damage LH image in a very competitive market such as GRU. I dont know how wa LX performance on GRU, and whether LX will indeed increase its flights from 5 to daily, which could alleviate the cut in capacity.

Around 200 daily pax Hardi, not so strong as LH flights. For me RG will be the big winner, improving more the yields on both FRA as well as MUC flights.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:00 am

 Sad
Lufthansa in Chile has a legacy of its own, as you can see here when they landed at Los Cerrillos Airport:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence



Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):
LA will be happy!



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 6):
Indeed all benefits for AF and LAN !!

And so will IB

Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
If the rumor about LX taking over is true, why does anyone think that LX would be able to perform better in SCL than LH previously did? It's not like the market between Chile and Switzerland is booming...Does LX have lower costs than LH?



Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 12):
There is not necessarily a big market between Switzerland and Chile but if the aircraft is sitting on the ground in GRU anyway, it makes it worthwhile

All I can think is that there is bigger market in GRU-FRA than GRU-ZRH, so in the case of LH, SCL is actually taking some of the capacity, but as for LX, both SCL and GRU can fill it.

Otherwise, why the "spare time in GRU" wouldn't be true for LH as well?
I think it can be more profitable to fill the LX flight than to destinate a 346 to GRU-SCL.

It's all I can think of...

Regards )( ARCANO - HASTA SIEMPRE LUFTHANSA EN CHILE
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:42 pm

Some more information:

LX will indeed operate GRU-SCL with the A340 and the schedule will be adjusted so that SCL pax have the option to connect with LH B747 GRU-FRA (LX/LH therefore will offer SCL pax the option of ZRH direct and LH via GRU).

This means that SCL market will "only" be downgraded from LH A360 to LX A340. LH axes SCL but on the other hand LX adds SCL in its network. LH crew based in GRU will serve the GRU-SCL tag-on.

GRU will be the most affect destination, downgraded from two daily LH (A346/B747) to one daily LH (B747 shared with EZE). This will be partially compensated with RG increased capacity to Germany. RG says thank you!

LH A346 will be used to expand capacity to China. LH will resume two daily flights to GRU once more aircraft is delivered (i.e. by the end of the year).

I'm impressed with this move by LH during World Cup...

Rgs,
 
kiwiandrew

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 23):
But loads on the FRA-GRU run were always very high, about 80 to 90%, so the surprise was more on the cut of the aircraft to GRU, since LH will now only operate one daily B747 to GRU (and sharing capacity of EZE)...detail: during World Cup. For me, a huge surprise.

DOH! that will teach more for only skim reading ... I thought that it was just the GRU-SCL 'tag' flight that was being axed ... my apologies , In future I shall try to read what is actually written in a post , rather than what I think the poster has written
 
123
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:49 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:49 pm

Quoting Arcano (Reply 25):
Lufthansa in Chile has a legacy of its own, as you can see here when they landed at Los Cerrillos Airport:

In the past LH also flew into SCL: FRA-JFK-LIM-LPB-SCL with 707 and later, with DC-10.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:34 pm

Did LX ever serve SCL?

Tks,
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:53 pm

Even though the service will just be downgraded from a LH A346 to a LX A343, I feel pretty sad about not seeing Lufthansa's tail at my home airport anymore.
Now they join KL, BA, AZ, SU, CO and UA gang that have left SCL in the last 7 or 8 years.

The only thing that keeps me a bit happier is that I read somewhere around this site that BA is evaluating to come back to SCL, although it is just a rumour.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 29):

Yes they did, as Swissair. If I'm not mistaken they used to fly ZRH-GRU-EZE-SCL with the MD-11

Well, auf wiedersehen Lufthansa, hope to see you back some day.
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 30):
Now they join KL,...... that have left SCL in the last 7 or 8 years.

And will KL continue GRU? I've heard some rumours to the contrary... it seems big daddy AF wants that corner of the market for itself.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
LH526
Crew
Posts: 1960
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:23 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:23 pm

I'm booked on LH526/527 in mach / april and it surely will be a farewell flight for me! As you can see in my username I have a sentimental feeling with this flight! I mourned when the flight has been switched from the traditional B744 I was used for nearly a decade as well as the usual stopover in EZE.

However I'm glad LH is not completely pulling out of SCL but officialy keeps it in their network with my other most favourite airline, Swiss!

Bye bye LH ins SCL .... welcome LH to SCL ... and yes, I mean it that way  

Mario
LH526

[Edited 2006-02-08 15:24:09]
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
LH526
Crew
Posts: 1960
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:23 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:27 pm

Is it fact that LH527 will be axed as of May 2006? Not allreday in macrhc with change to Summer timetable?

Mario
LH526j
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 31):
And will KL continue GRU? I've heard some rumours to the contrary... it seems big daddy AF wants that corner of the market for itself.

I dont think there is any chance KL will axe GRU. In fact last year they upgraded GRU from 5 weekly to daily B777. GRU was also one of KL launching destinations of the B777. In addition, big dady AF has already increased flights to GRU from daily to 10 weekly and will operate twice daily until the end of the year.

GRU will be a typical market in which AF and KL will operate together, while LIM, GYE/UIO and PNB will be kept as KLM territory. AF will take care of the rest of the region (i.e. MEX, EZE, GIG, SCL, BOG, CCS).

Another information on LH/LX: LX will closed its office in Rio de Janeiro, which will have its acvities taken care of LH office in the city. You can expect LH and LX office in Sao Paulo to be combined in one office very soon - the same way KL/AF did a couple of months ago.

Rgs,
 
User avatar
TR763
Posts: 754
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:07 am

LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
LX will indeed operate GRU-SCL with the A340 and the schedule will be adjusted so that SCL pax have the option to connect with LH B747 GRU-FRA (LX/LH therefore will offer SCL pax the option of ZRH direct and LH via GRU).

Ok, so LH will have in only one 747 flight, pax from EZE + GRU + SCL! I can feel that many people will be affected, in a way that they will not be able to travel directly to FRA (so choosing other airlines to go to europe); I imagine that they will face a lot of overbooks, and as you said, LH's image will also be affected in a negative way.
IMO, the all the airlines that operate S. America (specially GRU) - Europe will be benefitted.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 26):
I'm impressed with this move by LH during World Cup...

Do you remember the result of the last World Cup final? - Maybe that's why LH is downgrading this market like this!  Smile

Rgs!
TR763
Image
Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 30):
Yes they did, as Swissair. If I'm not mistaken they used to fly ZRH-GRU-EZE-SCL with the MD-11

Correct, and here is a photo of LX MD-11 in SCL in 2001...so not so long ago!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christian Schmitt



Quoting TR763 (Reply 35):
Do you remember the result of the last World Cup final? - Maybe that's why LH is downgrading this market like this!

What an irony!

Rgs,
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 30):
Even though the service will just be downgraded from a LH A346 to a LX A343

well the title of the treat is not correct, as LH will not axe SCL, they will just downgrade the flight from A346 to A343, only GRU will loose a daily flight...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
BOAC911
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:47 pm

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 37):

You can debate the title of course, but either way, Lufthansa will not be operating with its "own" metal, but rather an aircraft in Swiss colors, and operated by Swiss (which it owns of course) However Santiago should no longer be considered a LH destination, but only a destination served through a Lufthansa partner.

Yes, code-sharing has lots of people confused, and nowadays the traveler needs to really inform him/herself on what aircraft he will be flying before booking a flight.
 
123
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:49 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 30):
Well, auf wiedersehen Lufthansa

Thanks to your good comment, maybe Ryanair will take over GRU/SCL  Smile
 
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 2:04 pm

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:03 am

Swiss did not operate to SCL.

Swissair did. Two times per week flight number was SR148/149 (IIRC) and routing was ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-ZRH

Cheers

RS
"ad astra per aspera"
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 34):
GRU will be a typical market in which AF and KL will operate together, while LIM, GYE/UIO and PNB will be kept as KLM territory. AF will take care of the rest of the region (i.e. MEX, EZE, GIG, SCL, BOG, CCS)

MEX will continue to hanlde a dual AF-KL operation as well, and, together with GRU, they will be the only stations in continental Latin America with simultaneous AF/KL service.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 41):
MEX will continue to hanlde a dual AF-KL operation as well, and, together with GRU, they will be the only stations in continental Latin America with simultaneous AF/KL service

Correct. Anyone with the breakdown of AF/KL flights to MEX?

Quoting S.p.a.s. (Reply 40):
Swiss did not operate to SCL.

Swissair did. Two times per week flight number was SR148/149 (IIRC) and routing was ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-ZRH

Tks for the accurate information.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 37):
as LH will not axe SCL, they will just downgrade the flight

Please read all the posts.

Rgs,
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 42):
Please read all the posts.

I did it,

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 15):
Hardiwv,

What is most intriguing is that, according my source, LH might operate the GRU-SCL-GRU flight with LH flight number and crew, but using the LX A340 as equipment. This is was/is at least one of the possibilities seen by LH South America.

Cheers

so SCL will only see a different colorsheme, Swiss than Lufthansa and a smaller aircraft or?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting LH526 (Reply 33):
Is it fact that LH527 will be axed as of May 2006? Not allreday in macrhc with change to Summer timetable?

I don't have info on this, but i can bring to you fresh numbers on SCL-GRU flights of yesterday.

Flight.....Origin..Arrived...Reg.........Pax..... (Plane)

TAM8027 SCL 1800 PT-MZN PAXS: 145 (A320)
VRG8921 SCL 1805 PP-VQF PAXS: 165 (M11)
DLH0527 SCL 1830 D-AIHF PAXS: 045 (A346)
LAN0756 SCL 1945 CC-COF PAXS: 077 (A320)
VRG8923 SCL 1130 PP-VSA PAXS: 120 (B738)

Seems that RG and JJ take the advantage of the connections in Brazil.

Regards
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
mike1974
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:37 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 42):

If im correct, AF at the moment has 11 weekly flights to MEX (a daily 772, and 4x more with 744). AF has announced it will go to 2 daily flights this summer with a combination of 772 and A342.

Now KL has a daily flight into MEX with a combo 747M.

[Edited 2006-02-09 04:34:48]
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 29):
Did LX ever serve SCL?



Quoting S.p.a.s. (Reply 40):
Swissair did. Two times per week flight number was SR148/149 (IIRC) and routing was ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-ZRH

After using a LAN-codeshare via EZE for many year, Swissair reopended SCL direct flights in December of 1999. Flight numbers were indeed SR148/149 but the flights went thrice weekly on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays from ZRH. The route has never made any money and was axed when Swissair went belly up.

In the top days of 1999 and 2000, Swissair had 9 weekly flights to South America, split up as 4 weekly ZRH-GRU-EZE (SR144/145), 3 weekly ZRH-GRU-SCL (SR148/149) and 2 weekly ZRH-GIG-EZE (SR146/147). Not a single one of those routes made any money in those days. Nevertheless, AMP Management planned to increase operations in South America to 14 weekly, whereby all destinations would be served daily. We all know what happened then...

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
LH Corporate Sales Director confirmed today that LH will suspend LH FRA-GRU-SCL A346 daily as of May/2006.

I vividly remember the discussion we had we Lufthansa last revamped it South American network, and dropped GIG and nonstop EZE in favor of the current arrangement. I said back then that the new arrangement for SCL was likely a very last chance for the station to remain in the LH network.

As I see it, I do not believe SCL will be able to sustain itself in the future. The LX operation is a miserable solution and any marketing specialist could probably tell us that the airline risks confusing its customers and losing its brand recognition. LH would be much better of with a clear cut RG code share on the GRU-SCL route.

Meanwhile, competitors are not sitting still. Following the positive results of the thrice weekly nonstop CDG-SCL, AF is expected to increase the nonstop frequency to SCL next winter, and IB and LA are firmly established with nonstop flights to and from MAD.

It's about time that LH/LX starts making up their minds on South America, because as it goes, they stand to lose out big time with their ever changing strategies. An airline of the standing and allure of LH/LX can simply not afford to not offer nonstop service to EZE and keep on changing service to secondary destinations like GIG and SCL.
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:54 pm

Quoting Mike1974 (Reply 45):
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 42):

If im correct, AF at the moment has 11 weekly flights to MEX (a daily 772, and 4x more with 744). AF has announced it will go to 2 daily flights this summer with a combination of 772 and A342.

Now KL has a daily flight into MEX with a combo 747M.

Yes, I think you are right; besides AF Cargo has 6 or 7 weekly flights with 744F...

Fyano
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:44 pm

Felipe:

Tks again for your work bringing up the numbers for yesterday's flights GRU-SCL. But I thought LA had twice daily flights, correct? So there is one LA flight missing from your list.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 43):
so SCL will only see a different colorsheme, Swiss than Lufthansa and a smaller aircraft or?

As HB-IWC mentioned above, and I completely agree, this interim solution seems very confusing from the marketing point of view.

It seems LH/LX cant get it right in South America, while AF/KL is booming. With all its ever changing strategy for the region, LH/LX may be permanently damanging its reputation.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 46):
An airline of the standing and allure of LH/LX can simply not afford to not offer nonstop service to EZE and keep on changing service to secondary destinations like GIG and SCL.

Completely agree.

Quoting Mike1974 (Reply 45):
AF at the moment has 11 weekly flights to MEX (a daily 772, and 4x more with 744). AF has announced it will go to 2 daily flights this summer with a combination of 772 and A342.

Now KL has a daily flight into MEX with a combo 747M.

Tks for the answer, so its seems AF/KL have similar strategies for the two biggest markets in the region, GRU and MEX, i.e. daily KL and twice daily AF.

Rgs,


Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: LH Axes SCL And Downgrades GRU

Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 48):
Tks again for your work bringing up the numbers for yesterday's flights GRU-SCL. But I thought LA had twice daily flights, correct? So there is one LA flight missing from your list.

Right, one is missing, but i couldn't get the info for this specific flight as my source was not available at time the flight info was placed on Infraero's system. I'm sorry !

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 46):
An airline of the standing and allure of LH/LX can simply not afford to not offer nonstop service to EZE and keep on changing service to secondary destinations like GIG and SCL.

Also agree. if we look into AF operations at GIG and SCL it could give us the size of LH wrong decisions.


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

Who is online