SAA201
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Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:17 am

from: www.travelinfo.co.za

By (Hilka Birns) hilkab@nowmedia.co.za

SOUTH African Airways is reviewing its use of Atlanta as a hub with Chicago as a replacement, when its codeshare with Delta Air Lines ends in September, according to gm flight operations, Captain Colin Jordaan.
This follows SAA formally joining Star Alliance on April 1 and Chicago being a hub of Star Alliance partners, US Airways and United Airlines. “All indications at this stage are that it will be Chicago and the simulations that we have run show us that in fact we will have more connections from Chicago than from Atlanta,” he said.
Jordaan said SAA also would “vigorously explore” a connection between Cape Town and Miami, but this depended on what support it would get from its US Star Alliance partner carriers out of Miami.
Meanwhile SAA is considering scaling back its daily flights to Mumbai to four a week because of insufficient loads during off-peak times.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:48 am

ORD would be a big win. Not only tons of connections, but there are lots of South Africans around here for some reason.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
sw733
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:53 am

Wow, considering I am from Namibia, most of my family is in Chicago, and I go to college in Kansas...a flight from Chicago to South Africa would be fantastic for me personally. I could certainly see this as a successful venture for them as well! I hope it is true, and I could definitely see it being true.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:59 am

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Hope to see them back in Miami, though. Limited connections, but strong O&D, as demonstrated from the fact that the MIA flight is planned from Cape Town rather than their main Jo'Burg hub. CPT also would allow them to do both ways non-stop.
a.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:19 am

I know it's a long shot, but would love to see SAA in LAX maybe via MIA or South America.
 
LFutia
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:18 am

There's alot of South Africans in Chicago?

Never knew that! learn somethin every day...

Leo
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
SAA201
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Hope to see them back in Miami, though. Limited connections, but strong O&D, as demonstrated from the fact that the MIA flight is planned from Cape Town rather than their main Jo'Burg hub. CPT also would allow them to do both ways non-stop.

I would imagine that the flight would operate JNB-CPT-MIA and vv as it did in the past. Most of the pax in those days originated or terminated their journey in JNB rather than CPT if I'm not mistaken. The reason for the stop in CPT was because, unlike JNB, it is almost at sea level and has a more western longitude thus allowing a feasible non-stop eastbound flight from South Africa to the USA.
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 5):
There's alot of South Africans in Chicago?

I don't know about a lot, but i grew up there, and there were some south african kids in our high school, and later on the only place in the United States i've ever met South Africans has been in Chicago. But if you compare that to how many mexican or polish people there are in Chicago... i wouldnt bet that alone on an A340 around the world lol.

'902
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MAH4546
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 5):
There's alot of South Africans in Chicago?

No. There are a lot in Miami, Toronto, and Houston, though.

Quoting SAA201 (Reply 6):

I would imagine that the flight would operate JNB-CPT-MIA and vv as it did in the past. Most of the pax in those days originated or terminated their journey in JNB rather than CPT if I'm not mistaken.

Very true, but the VFR nature of the flight, combined with the fact that CPT allows non-stop both ways, makes it more feasable.
a.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 5):
There's alot of South Africans in Chicago?

We have all sorts of people in Chicago. A truly gloabl city indeed.

This is great news. I love it when there is a new airline at T5.
 
LFutia
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:20 pm

Indeed it is!!!! I really do hope that SAA will come to ORD!!!

According to this link i got from a friend, Chicago is a planned destination of SAA: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=315211

Leo
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
airfinair
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:59 pm

Wow. Now that would be pretty great for Chicago. Let's hope it happens. I sure didn't see this one coming!
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chgoflyer
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:27 pm

Wow since they are going with Star Im shocked they have not considered PIT afterall US could offer them many connections!
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
PADSpot
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:27 pm

What about eqipment then?

It was said in prior threads that SAA already had to make a fuel stop with the A346 on either the way to or from ATL? The route to ORD is about 700km farther and should then pose an even worse problem?

The A346 is already the airplane with the longest range in the fleet ... maybe their standard A346s can be upgraded to the HGW-version (after it becomes available) and the tech stops becomes obsolete this way ... ?

[Edited 2006-02-09 05:38:33]
 
ORDZW
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:37 pm

Isn't there still the problem of the length of the A346 in ORD due to the limits on the taxiways? This was obvious when IB substituted a while back. If this is the case, then they would have to use the 744.
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N1120A
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 5):
There's alot of South Africans in Chicago?

Actually, it has nothing to do with any South African population in Chicago, it has to do with more than 500 United flights a day to connect to. I thought this swap was supposed to go to IAD as opposed to ORD?

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 12):
Wow since they are going with Star Im shocked they have not considered PIT afterall US could offer them many connections!

You are kidding, right?
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jmc1975
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Hope to see them back in Miami, though. Limited connections, but strong O&D, as demonstrated from the fact that the MIA flight is planned from Cape Town rather than their main Jo'Burg hub. CPT also would allow them to do both ways non-stop.

AA dropped the ball by not doing MIA-CPT-JNB on a 772ER. Although it would require an additional two aircraft, nobody at AA seems to have the vision to enable such a move.
.......
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 13):
It was said in prior threads that SAA already had to make a fuel stop with the A346 on either the way to or from ATL? The route to ORD is about 700km farther and should then pose an even worse problem?

No more of a problem than it already is. The one fuel stop would be more than sufficient for the 346 or 744 to make it without problem.

M
 
LFutia
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting ORDZW (Reply 14):
Isn't there still the problem of the length of the A346 in ORD due to the limits on the taxiways? This was obvious when IB substituted a while back. If this is the case, then they would have to use the 744.

Apparently not as IB is scheduled to operate the MAD-ORD-MAD route in April with the A346.

Leo
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 16):

AA dropped the ball by not doing MIA-CPT-JNB on a 772ER. Although it would require an additional two aircraft, nobody at AA seems to have the vision to enable such a move.

AA evaulated the route very closely. They would love to it, but there are operational issues using their 772s that do not make it feasable. If they had newer, longer range 777s or if they are to get 787s, it is definitley a market I see them going into.
a.
 
ORD14R
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:50 pm

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 18):
Apparently not as IB is scheduled to operate the MAD-ORD-MAD route in April with the A346.

Just in April, or from April on? Please tell me its the 346 in June...

Sorry to get off-topic.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 12):
Wow since they are going with Star Im shocked they have not considered PIT afterall US could offer them many connections!

There has been on again/off again speculation about either SAA or AC serving JNB. Given YYZ is Canada's Star hub, and the number of South Africans living here, thought that once the US was covered, they would have had their sights set on Canada, or even extending the IAD flight.
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American 767
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting SAA201 (Thread starter):
Chicago being a hub of Star Alliance partners, US Airways and United Airlines.

Not quite true. US Airways doesn't have a hub in Chicago, United does. And US Airways and United have abandoned their planned merger a long time ago. However it is true that both UA and US belong to the Star Alliance. American, who doesn't belong to Star, has a hub in Chicago.
Why isn't SAA considering serving PIT since it will be part of Star Alliance?

Ben Soriano
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airfinair
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 18):
Apparently not as IB is scheduled to operate the MAD-ORD-MAD route in April with the A346.

LH will be flying an A346 into ORD this summer also, so we can probably say that ORD has worked out any issues with the A346.
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keesje
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 13):
It was said in prior threads that SAA already had to make a fuel stop with the A346 on either the way to or from ATL? The route to ORD is about 700km farther and should then pose an even worse problem?

The A346 is already the airplane with the longest range in the fleet ...

Sporty, even for a A346..

JNB (26°08'21"S 28°14'46"E) ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) : 7568 nm
JNB (26°08'21"S 28°14'46"E) ATL (33°38'26"N 84°25'37"W) : 7334 nm

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
drerx7
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 22):
Why isn't SAA considering serving PIT since it will be part of Star Alliance?

PIT has virtually no O&D for South Africa, and is no longer a hub for anybody. Besides--they are better served getting a Europe flight back.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
gigneil
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 22):
Why isn't SAA considering serving PIT since it will be part of Star Alliance?

Seriously, why would they? PIT offers nothing IAD doesn't already, which is the Northeast and eastern Midwest.

ORD offers the entire rest of the country, basically, and United's biggest hub.

PIT offers practically nothing but a bunch of RJs.

N
 
Nimish
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting SAA201 (Thread starter):
Meanwhile SAA is considering scaling back its daily flights to Mumbai to four a week because of insufficient loads during off-peak times.

Is it going to be a permanent reduction in capacity, or just for the off-season? And is there really no traffic - or are they up against the EK-juggernaut (I have no idea, just checking)?
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LFutia
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 20):
Just in April, or from April on? Please tell me its the 346 in June...

Sorry to get off-topic.

when exactly are you flying to MAD from ORD in June? I picked 2 random dates in June and I saw just A340 not A346.

Leo
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N328KF
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Actually, it has nothing to do with any South African population in Chicago, it has to do with more than 500 United flights a day to connect to. I thought this swap was supposed to go to IAD as opposed to ORD?

Yes, I will grant you, the connections from ORD are a major part of it. However...

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 5):
There's alot of South Africans in Chicago?

Yes. Well, while there are other cities with larger South African O&D populations, Chicago still has a strong base. I personally have met tons of them here.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
daron4000
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:40 am

saturdays are a346 for iberia
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 21):
There has been on again/off again speculation about either SAA or AC serving JNB. Given YYZ is Canada's Star hub, and the number of South Africans living here, thought that once the US was covered, they would have had their sights set on Canada, or even extending the IAD flight.

Actually a flight to YYZ wouldn't be much longer than ORD. In fact, i think its actually the same right?
 
ORD14R
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 30):
saturdays are a346 for iberia

Thanks for clearing that up...I understand now why two random dates were giving me two different aircraft types. Sadly, I fly back to ORD on a Monday...
 
JoFMO
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:44 pm

With the recent modification in the US/CA treaty I could see AC trying YYZ-MIA-JNB/CPT.

They apllied some weeks ago for YYZ-LAX-SYD. So they seem to be willing to try out some 5th freedoms via the US. So the MIA-South Africa route could be a good option for them.
 
StarAlly
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:39 am

This is really exciting! I am planning a return trip to a country (haven't decided yet) in Africa next year and with SAA flying out of Chicago, it will make connecting so much easier. Previously I've been going through Europe, but I think SAA will offer better connections to other African nations through JNB. Not to mention I can continue earning Star Alliance status. This really beats, at least for me, flying to ATL, NYC, or IAD for international connections or connecting in Frankfurt.

I can't wait to see this bird flying over my neighborhood!
Aaron Jason
 
9252fly
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:12 am

I think for travelers from Canada that wish to connect via the USA,having ORD as SAA departure city could work out very well. ORD has UA/AC flights to YVR,YYC,YEG,YWG,YOW,YUL and YYZ. Speculation about AC starting flights to South Africa have been around for about a decade,I'm not holding my breath. I could see AC codesharing with SAA out of ORD as a North American gateway,that's not to say you would not see the codeshare on the other gateways(JFK and IAD). It's a given that they will codeshare out of LHR,FRA,CDG,ZRH with a possibility of HKG as another connection point.
 
kkfla737
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting SAA201 (Thread starter):
Meanwhile SAA is considering scaling back its daily flights to Mumbai to four a week because of insufficient loads during off-peak times.

Intersting considering that AI, 9W and IC have all made noise about flying from South Africa to India recently.
 
Mexicana757
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:24 am

It would be great to see SAA at ORD. Changing their flight to ORD from ATL is big plus for SAA as they would have a ton of connections out of here.

As someone mentioned above, AC would benefit from having SAA fly to ORD.
 
ScottB
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Quoting Lfutia (Reply 5):
There's alot of South Africans in Chicago?

No. There are a lot in Miami, Toronto, and Houston, though.

Which is part of why I was surprised to see SA join Star instead of SkyTeam; they already had the long-standing successful codeshare with DL and had flown to IAH back in the 80's which is, of course, a SkyTeam hub with CO having joined. Even oneworld would have made more sense with AA's MIA hub, and both SkyTeam and oneworld have better African networks from Europe.
 
SA7700
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RE: Will SAA Replace Atlanta With Chicago?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 38):
Even oneworld would have made more sense with SA)">AA's MIA hub, and both SkyTeam and oneworld have better African networks from Europe.

I can almost guarantee you that if SA had applied to join Oneworld, the South African Competition Commission would have denied the application. BA already have South African domestic-and regional flights (operated by Comair South Africa), with quite an extensive network. Put SA in the equation and you almost certainly will have price collusion.


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