STLTower
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STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:26 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060208/clw071.html?.v=34

Ive been thinking they would do this as the JS41 fleet seems to be getting smaller and smaller.

I wonder how Regions will serve some of these markets, maybe with former Trans States aircraft?

Side note : We found out today more info on how we are going to use the new runway (11/29) at STL. It seems that the plan is to use (on an east flow) 11 as the primary arrival runway and 12R as the primary departure runway while using 12L for GA and overflow arrivals and departures.
 
atrude777
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:44 am

RegionsAir as we know operates only J31, it would be interesting to see if they add J-41 to what markets though? All markets served by Regions are EAS cities, so they could fly a J31 or a 747 it will sitll be a profitable route as they are paid to fly the route. If I understand correctly.

I would think Regions would just use the J31 to fly them. It would be neat to see RJ flights such as MWA-STL or CGI-STL, but I have no hopes for those cities getting RJ.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
MAH4546
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
so they could fly a J31 or a 747 it will sitll be a profitable route as they are paid to fly the route. If I understand correctly.

No, that is totally incorrect. The subsidies are pre-set based on the aircraft used. Airlines bid for the contracts, and the lesser bids usually (but not always) win. If an airline upgrades a flight from, for example, a J31 to a J41, then they will be responsbile for any potential losses caused by the switch.
a.
 
atrude777
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):

No, that is totally incorrect. The subsidies are pre-set based on the aircraft used. Airlines bid for the contracts, and the lesser bids usually (but not always) win. If an airline upgrades a flight from, for example, a J31 to a J41, then they will be responsbile for any potential losses caused by the switch.

Oh I didn't realize they had it pre-set. Figured they could place any aircraft and still are paid for the flight.

Makes more sense.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:03 am

So all jet huh? St. Louis could lose a little bit of service over this (UIN, OWB, MWA). Will be interesting to see what happens.
 
atrude777
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 4):
So all jet huh? St. Louis could lose a little bit of service over this (UIN, OWB, MWA). Will be interesting to see what happens.

Bryan- TSA doesn't fly to those cities, only RegionsAir. I highly doubt they would be affected.....

Unless you see something different?

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
MAH4546
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 5):

Bryan- TSA doesn't fly to those cities, only RegionsAir. I highly doubt they would be affected.....

Unless you see something different?

RegionsAir might reallocate resources from those markets to serve ones TSA is dropping.
a.
 
flyCMH
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:16 am

From http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060208/clw071.html?.v=34 :

"Trans States currently serves nine markets from St. Louis with its J-41 fleet under its AmericanConnection® partnership. Four markets -- Cedar Rapids, Iowa; Madison, Wis.; Memphis, Tenn.; and Fayetteville, Ark. -- will have their existing service upgraded to all-jet service between April and May.

Trans States will exit five markets -- Columbia, Mo.; Decatur, Ill.; Joplin, Mo.; Springfield, Ill.; and Springfield, Mo. Trans States and American are working with AmericanConnection® partner Regions Air to continue service to those cities."


So it sounds like TSA will continue serving CID, MSN, MEM, and XNA with upgraded RJ service, while COU, DEC, JLN, SPI, and SGF could be in danger of loosing AmericanConnection service. I don't see why RegionsAir couldn't go ahead and takeover service to these markets, unless they're short on aircraft.
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LambertMan
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 5):
Bryan- TSA doesn't fly to those cities, only RegionsAir. I highly doubt they would be affected.....

Unless you see something different?

Whoops, I figured J41/J31 same company must operate them  Wink. I sometimes forget that RegionsAir is even in existence. I'm placing my bets on SPI, SGF, and COU retaining service, DEC and JLN to me look like real strong candidates to go. JLN was supposed to be cut last year at some point in time.
 
FutureFO
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:28 am

Umm Regions Air serves BNA which is definitely not a EAS service. Also last time I was in STL TSA still had more than 6 J41's remaining.


Sean from MCO and SDF
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usxguy
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:30 am

Don't forget that RegionsAir is also picking up some Saabs. Wouldn't be surprising to see them flying SF3s instead of J32EPs on those routes.

And just a jaunt down memory lane, Trans States used to have J31 Shuttle service from both Decatur and Springfield to St. Louis with flights every hour starting at 5 am till 6 pm.
xx
 
MAH4546
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 9):
Umm Regions Air serves BNA which is definitely not a EAS service.

They fly there because it is their maintence base, IIRC.
a.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:11 am

Are they getting these aircraft from the phasing out of USex flying? Could we see them announce any new cities in addition to upgrading of these cities? I like the idea of them taking on some at-risk flying like SRQ...maybe add another couple of cities there?
 
mrstl
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 12):
Are they getting these aircraft from the phasing out of USex flying?

I thought some of these planes were being reallocated to fly United's new focus city in SAT. Although I could be wrong-- I would welcome any new service at STL-- MCI would sure be nice although AA handed that route to WN on a silver platter among others.
 
N1120A
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 13):
I thought some of these planes were being reallocated to fly United's new focus city in SAT.

Actually, the focus city is Trans-States' idea and is totally at risk. UA is marketing it for them
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:28 am

great news for me here in CID! I am glad to see us have all jet service back to STL. I remember when TWA ran about 8 M80s/717's a day here and those flights always appeared to be very busy. I had noticed previously in another thread that the early morning CID-STL had been upgraded to an ERJ. Does anyone know when the remaining new all jet flights will be loaded into the schedule?
 
Okie
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 7):
So it sounds like TSA will continue serving CID, MSN, MEM, and XNA with upgraded RJ service, while COU, DEC, JLN, SPI, and SGF could be in danger of loosing AmericanConnection service.

I wondered if Trans States upgraded their Junkstream drivers to the ERJ's or just kicked them into the FOD barrel.

Okie
 
Tornado82
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
RegionsAir as we know operates only J31, it would be interesting to see if they add J-41 to what markets though? All markets served by Regions are EAS cities,

They're buying Saab 340's for newly acquired EAS contracts for MGW, CKB, and PKB.

Quoting USXguy (Reply 10):
Don't forget that RegionsAir is also picking up some Saabs. Wouldn't be surprising to see them flying SF3s instead of J32EPs on those routes.

Exactly... they didn't buy and train for Saab 340's just for the West Virginia Routes, which by my count would only require 2 planes.
 
flyf15
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 16):
I wondered if Trans States upgraded their Junkstream drivers to the ERJ's or just kicked them into the FOD barrel.

They're going to the ERJ. I'm actually friends with a former J41 captain that will begin flying the ERJ as a captain in the next couple weeks.
 
iowaman
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 15):
great news for me here in CID! I am glad to see us have all jet service back to STL.

Now if we can get some NW to get rid of some of those saabs to CIDWink
 
iowaman
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 15):
great news for me here in CID! I am glad to see us have all jet service back to STL.

Now if we can get NW to get rid of some of those saabs to CIDWink
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 20):
Now if we can get NW to get rid of some of those saabs to CID.

Iowaman, I was thinking the same thing! NW will now be the only carrier in CID offering turbo prop service. Would be nice to see those remaining MSP flights that aren't jet(I think there are maybe 3 of them) upgraded to either CRJ/ARJ or DC9. I would have thought we would have had an all jet schedule on NW by now.
 
Tornado82
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 21):
ARJ

Sorry, but the ARJ's are leaving the fleet.

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 21):
I would have thought we would have had an all jet schedule on NW by now.

For that short of a hop? Throwing jets on routes like that is exactly why airlines are NOT making money.

Probably 40% of NW's CRJ/ARJ/DC93 routes would be better served with a Q-400 due to stage length. I'd go so far as to wager the Q-400's fuel/maint savings would make up for their lease costs as opposed to the already-paid-for DC9's.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 22):
For that short of a hop? Throwing jets on routes like that is exactly why airlines are NOT making money

MLI-MSP is currently all jets, as well as MSN-MSP, and they are roughly the same distance from MSP as CID


we also have AA and UA with all jets to ORD, a mere 196 miles. I guess from a passenger perspective, jets seems to be a more popular choice versus turbo props

as for the ARJ leaving the fleet, you are correct. That was an oversight on my part.

[Edited 2006-02-09 03:44:16]

[Edited 2006-02-09 03:45:34]
 
stl1326
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:52 am

I'm suprised they are dropping SPI. I thought that route was one of their better J41 routes. It will interesting to see what happens and if regions air will pick up some of the routes that TSA is dropping. Does anybody know where the extra aircraft are coming from to upgrade CID, MEM, MSN, and XNA?
 
loggat
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:00 pm

there were 13 ERJ's on the USex system. I can't tell you exactly the number that went to the United and American sides, but they will be split up. A couple of the planes are already in AA colors and a couple are in UAL colors.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
Tornado82
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 23):
I guess from a passenger perspective, jets seems to be a more popular choice versus turbo props

Doesn't mean its economical.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
Doesn't mean its economical.

while that certainly may be true, it appears my wish is coming true, beginning next week NW is replacing 2 saabs with one DC9 and one CRJ to MSP  Smile
 
iowaman
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 22):
For that short of a hop? Throwing jets on routes like that is exactly why airlines are NOT making money.

Hey, that's a long hop compared the DC-9's on RST-MSP which is all of 72 miles.  Wink

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
Doesn't mean its economical.

If NW was worried about being economical, they wouldn't be flying A320's to places like FAR and GFK. We are talking about the upper midwest here, where NW doesn't give a damn if they loose money, or they wouldn't be flying low yield routes like FSD-LAS competing with Allegiant.

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 27):
while that certainly may be true, it appears my wish is coming true, beginning next week NW is replacing 2 saabs with one DC9 and one CRJ to MSP

Lol, those DC9's come and go every schedule change it seems, I wish they would make up there mind. DSM even has a A319 to MSP now.
 
Tornado82
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 28):

Hey, that's a long hop compared the DC-9's on RST-MSP which is all of 72 miles. Wink



Quoting Iowaman (Reply 28):

If NW was worried about being economical, they wouldn't be flying A320's to places like FAR and GFK. We are talking about the upper midwest here, where NW doesn't give a damn if they loose money, or they wouldn't be flying low yield routes like FSD-LAS competing with Allegiant.

You've said it all... they don't "give a damn if they lose money." And that has caught up to them now.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:15 pm

Iowa, how do you say this :

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 20):
Now if we can get NW to get rid of some of those saabs to CID.

then this :

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 28):
If NW was worried about being economical, they wouldn't be flying A320's to places like FAR and GFK. We are talking about the upper midwest here, where NW doesn't give a damn if they loose money, or they wouldn't be flying low yield routes like FSD-LAS competing with Allegiant.

how long of a ride is CID-MSP? Half hour?

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 27):
while that certainly may be true, it appears my wish is coming true, beginning next week NW is replacing 2 saabs with one DC9 and one CRJ to MSP

If CID is in the upper midwest as iowamain said, that isnt a smart move.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 22):
For that short of a hop? Throwing jets on routes like that is exactly why airlines are NOT making money.

Probably 40% of NW's CRJ/ARJ/DC93 routes would be better served with a Q-400 due to stage length. I'd go so far as to wager the Q-400's fuel/maint savings would make up for their lease costs as opposed to the already-paid-for DC9's.

Agreed.


It never ceases to amaze me the routes they'll put a Saab on, then the ones they feel need a DC 9 or Crj......
 
iowaman
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 30):
how long of a ride is CID-MSP? Half hour?

Close to an hour.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 31):
Close to an hour.

my goodness! thats almost a 757 leg!
 
STLTower
Topic Author
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:38 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Regions doesn't serve SGF and JLN. From what I have heard and read in the news paper JLN is a weak market and it seems SGF has a good amount of AA service as well as service from other carriers. It would seem to me that if you wanted to connect out of SGF, STL would not be on of your list of options because we don't have as many flights to connect to as ORD, DFW, ATL or MEM, which all have service to SGF. Im guessing that locals in the STL and SGF markets looking to get back and forth now days might be driving also. Its one of those markets that suffers because its so close and by the time you take into account driving to the airport, checking in, security, waiting for the flight then flying there and renting a car it just not worth it.

DEC,,,,,I just don't know,,,,,,its really close to CMI, right? We might loose that one also.

I would guess that Regions will take a serious look at SPI and COU and will probably serve these two towns. I just cant imagine COU loosing air service.
 
access-air
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:54 am

Sheesh,
Why does everyone have such a problem with prop planes?
It baffles me that people if they have a chance will willy-nilly go up for a ride in a Cessna or Piper single engined aircraft for a ride but they freak out when they have to fly on a SAAB 340 or Jestream 31/41 or the like....
Its a total shame what American Airlines has done to the former TWA hub at St. Louis and how they have single handedly farked every destination that used to be adequately served with TWA out of any decent service. I am also speaking of markets that were totally abandoned out of St. Louis.
Im sorry but AA had a chance to make STL work for them as a great alternate to their MEGA-OVERCROWDED Hubs is ORD and DFW.
They however chose to shift all that lift mostly to ORD and now ORD is nothing but mess as result. In the process, STL is now a ghost town...but then thats the AAmerican WAAy... Just ask former employees of AirCal and Reno Air....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
cloudy
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 24):
I'm suprised they are dropping SPI.

Springfield is close enough to Saint Louis to make it hard to make the run economically with a jet. We will probably get replacement service with 19 seaters run by regions air, etc. Springfield is just to close to Saint Louis and Bloomington to retain a lot of air service. Also, a lot of those who would use such a service use corporate or state planes instead. American does not even consider us worth y of an RJ to Chicago(though we do have United to ORD).

I've always thought someone could make money by flying a Dash-8 from Springfield to Chicago and lowering fares to LCC levels. But this could just be wishfull thinking on my part.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 34):
It baffles me that people if they have a chance will willy-nilly go up for a ride in a Cessna or Piper single engined aircraft for a ride but they freak out when they have to fly on a SAAB 340 or Jestream 31/41 or the like....

They don't know that the safety record of regional props is very, very good compared to amateur flying or driving. It is not as good as that of mainline airliners, but it comes pretty close. However, there is some rough logic to their inhibitions...

My guess is the ride on the single engine plane is thought of like bunjee jumping or ridding as a passenger on a motorcycle. These activities are rarely done by most people and the percieved risk is part of their appeal. Also, since most people don't do these activities very often, the cumulative risk is low. But airline travel is classed as a "routine" activity done for a purpose rather than a rare thrill. So it is held to a higher standard.

My guess is we all make that distinction to some degree. I'd take a 15-30 minute thrill ride in a dragster, half-burned outYugo, or in the back of an old truck. I'd even look forward to it. Don't offer me a ride to Chicago on such a contraption, however.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting STLTower (Thread starter):
using 12L for GA and overflow arrivals and departures.

That'll change once the demolition project at the old Boeing facility is completed. Once those hangars are down, CAT III certification will be under way and will be a primary arrival runway during IFR ops.

The time difference between using 12R and 12L for departures is trivial at best since the distance to each end is nearly the same. That's not taking into account of course holding short of 12R @ Romeo is lengthy.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
TWFirst
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting STLTower (Reply 33):
DEC,,,,,I just don't know,,,,,,its really close to CMI, right? We might loose that one also.

It's closer to SPI and BMI.... however, TSA service is/was the only air service left into DEC. DEC is home to ADM, A.E. Staley and Mueller Co... so some air service is necessary.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 34):
Sheesh,
Why does everyone have such a problem with prop planes?
It baffles me that people if they have a chance will willy-nilly go up for a ride in a Cessna or Piper single engined aircraft for a ride but they freak out when they have to fly on a SAAB 340 or Jestream 31/41 or the like....

I guess they figure the prop planes are slower, older, and less safe. I personally would take an ERJ anyday over a J41, just because the ERJ is cooler.  Silly For some of these longer flights, like STL-MSN and even STL-CID, it will shave some time off the flight.

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 35):
They don't know that the safety record of regional props is very, very good compared to amateur flying or driving. It is not as good as that of mainline airliners, but it comes pretty close. However, there is some rough logic to their inhibitions...

 checkmark 
 
FlyPeoria
Posts: 430
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RE: STL, Trans States News About The JS41s

Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:42 am

There was a breaking news story in the Springfield, IL newspaper (www.sj-r.com) on Wednesday that confirmed Trans States Airlines decision to drop service to the city this fall. They did say that RegionsAir was expected to replace them. There was supposed to be an article today about this but I couldn't find it.

The article is not on-line anymore.

DPJ

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