AA B777-200
Topic Author
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Cabin Makeover At KLM

Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:40 pm

Since KLM is now planning to keep its MD11s until 2015, the company is making some adjustments for the flying ladies in two phases.

First phase has already started. This includes new carpets and installment of video cameras at the cockpit door.
They are also changing the 2-4-3 configuration and the new layout will be 3-3-3!
KLM is removing the last row of the World Business CLass section to put in a few more coach seats and therefore the configuration of the MD11 will change from 31/251 to 24/270.
According to KLM, on the MD11 routes there's more demand for Economy Class seats.

In phase two all Economy seats will be renewed. KLM still has to decide if those are going to include the PVS.
WBC seats will also be replaced and will include the newer Inflight Entertainment System 3000.
Flatscreens will also replace the current overhead monitors.
The second phase should be completed by 2008.

The makeover aside, KLM has also introduced large pictures in the lavatories of some MD11s. They are using 3 themes : flowers, sea and city.
If pax responses are postive, KLM will extend these 'surprising toilets' to the entire widebody fleet.

On the 747-400 KLM has decided to install newer WBC seats. They are also replacing the overhead monitors.
Whether they will also install the PVS on the coach seats (being renewed) is also to be decided this year.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:34 pm

Would be great, but i doubt all of this. Keeping up the MD-11 in the air untill 2015 is quite a while, and since they will probably be the last Pax carrier wich uses the MD-11 then, it will be expensive to maintain them.



About the PTV's in the Eco seats, i dont think they will install them in the 747-400's, because when they had planned it earlier, there were some weight issues
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:56 pm

I hope they keep the small forward cabin in WBC as it is. The privacy in this 2-row cabin makes it my personal favorite in the entire KLM longhaul fleet. They shoud do away with the horrible 2-3-2 layout in the second C-cabin. The MD11 has always been regarded as the holiday aircraft at KLM, so the reduction in WBC seats makes sense. I guess there will be some route adjustments though for the MD11 fleet, and I doubt that we'll see the MD11 back at DXB after its current stint comes to an end and DXB will once again be served by the T7.
 
sk601
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting AA B777-200 (Thread starter):
They are also changing the 2-4-3 configuration and the new layout will be 3-3-3!

OUCH! I really like the 2-4-3 lay-out.

If configuration will change from 31/251 to 24/270, I kind of wonder how m-class will be. If they add 2 rows (3-3-3) than it will be 269.
A WBC of 24 could possibly be 4 rows (2-2-2). This will eliminate the less desired 2-3-2 configuration in business class. It looks like the MD11 will get a kind of B777 interior.

[Edited 2006-02-09 15:42:48]
 
rootsair
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:56 pm

I hope this doesn't mean they will keep the MD 11 on the AMS-LIM route...I reserved for October ansd am more than wishing its the 777 they will use !
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
persotvik
Posts: 265
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:05 am

This is fantastic news Smile Together with Finnair KLM finds real value in this excellent aircraft.

How many passenger MD11's do Martinair operate?

Taken by me at AMS last summer:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Trhgutt/Aircraft%20photos/KLMD112.jpg
Just love flying
 
TR
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 1:28 am

RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Persotvik (Reply 5):
How many passenger MD11's do Martinair operate?

Martinair operated 1 MD-11CF in passerger configuration in the 2005 summer charters. According to rumours however, all of their 7 MD-11s (4 convertible (CF) and 3 full freighters) will be used for cargo in the future. Their two 747-200Cs are also used for cargo only. So only the 3 A320s and 6 767s will be used for passengers.
 
globetrekker
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:38 am

Thanks for the interesting news Robin!

I remember a few years back KLM MD-11's had a 37/260 configuration and since then it has been getting less and less in C-class. I must say that I also loved the 2-4-3 lay-out. Last year I flew AY on their MD-11 and they had a 3-4-3 configuration in Y. It gave you more legroom, but it seemed really cramped in a way.

Any word as to when phase 2 is to commence?

Globe Trekker
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
A319114
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 3):
I really like the 2-4-3 lay-out.

Me too, it's the best of both worlds if you ask me!
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 7):
Last year I flew AY on their MD-11 and they had a 3-4-3 configuration in Y. It gave you more legroom, but it seemed really cramped in a way.

3-4-3 in an MD-11! They must be mad! 2-4-3 is bad enough, then again most Italians are of small build  Wink

Quoting AA B777-200 (Thread starter):
Flatscreens will also replace the current overhead monitors.

about time, those monitors are miniscule!

So can someone tell me why PH-KCF is not named anymore? I think she was called 'Annie Romein', but she didn't have her titles last week when I saw her at AMS
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
sk601
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 9):
I flew AY on



Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 9):
then again most Italians are of small build

AY= Finnair
 
Joost
Posts: 1841
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:30 am

Doesn't Martinair also have a 3-4-3 configuration in its MD-11s? I flew the type once on AMS-HER, but I was 13 years old at the time. I was already interested in aviation back at the time and I remember I was very impressed, but do not really recall the configuration. We flew back in a 742 - I remember the crew already refered to it as an old bird.
 
kappel
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting AA B777-200 (Thread starter):
If pax responses are postive, KLM will extend these 'surprising toilets' to the entire widebody fleet.

Hey Robin, fawaka brada, long time no see. Hey, interesting news about the restrooms, seems like a novel and interesting idea. I really hope they will put PTV's on the 744's, since I fly those the most (yes to PBM). It probably won't be before the summer huh?

Quoting AA B777-200 (Thread starter):
According to KLM, on the MD11 routes there's more demand for Economy Class seats.

This surprises me even more that they don't put these on the PBM routes, which as you told me a while ago needs less WBC seats and more economy. Weren't they supposed to be phased out IN 2012, or STARTING 2012, so that the last MD-11 will leave in 2015?
Tang boeng...
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
AMSSFO
Posts: 912
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting TR (Reply 6):
Martinair operated 1 MD-11CF in passerger configuration in the 2005 summer charters. According to rumours however, all of their 7 MD-11s (4 convertible (CF) and 3 full freighters) will be used for cargo in the future.

According to another forum they will operate one in pax config again this summer.

Quoting AA B777-200 (Thread starter):
They are also changing the 2-4-3 configuration and the new layout will be 3-3-3!

That' a really bad idea! One of the reasons I choose NW over KL is the 2-4-2 config of NW's A330 compared to the 3-3-3 config of KL's 777 or the 2-4-3 config of KL's MD11. (OK the main reason is 2 inch more pitch on NW A330  Wink)
 
PRAirbus
Posts: 687
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:31 am

Great! We'll see MD11s for a while! They look awesome in KLM's new livery. Nice and comfortable airplane...too bad there aren't that many around.
 
AA B777-200
Topic Author
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:01 pm

Kappel,
Mind your words! Last Tuesday there was an incident with an all pax 747-400 at Schiphol (PH-BFN) while being towed and therefore that aircraft went into maintenance for 2 months!
Since KLM operates only 5 all pax versions of the 744 it is looking at options to rebook some pax or change aircrafts on specific routes.... PBM pax on PY, or have NW operate the daily AMS-YYZ-AMS flight. Maybe that MD11 into PBM wouldn't be such a bad idea!
Drop me a note so I can send you those BFN pics.

And yes, they changed the phase out year from 2012 to 2015, but you never know....

Joost,
Yes Martinair's MD11s also have a 3-4-3 layout. Isn't fair, huh?! Is the same as EK operating 3-4-3 on its 777 in coach!

Ryan,
Phase two should commence in 2007 and be finishes in 2008.

Braulio,
If you're lucky, as stated in another thread, that nonstop 777 into Lima might be starting by the end of October. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Robin
 
vunz
Posts: 347
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:44 pm

What happened to the City of Nairobi?
 
AA B777-200
Topic Author
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:30 pm

BFN : accident while being towed, damage in fuselage!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:11 pm

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 17):
BFN : accident while being towed, damage in fuselage!

So that's why yesterdays' AMS-PEK has been canceled and AMS-SIN has been delayed for 17 hours? What are the repercussions for the operation in the upcoming 2 months? With a subfleet of 5 B744s, this incident is bound to cause some major irregularities.
 
hotje
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:53 pm

Just saw the damage, it's pretty major. About a 4*1m hole in the botom of the fuselage. It looked pretty severe to a non expert that I am.
 
vunz
Posts: 347
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:08 pm

Does anyone have any pictures?
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 7):
AY on their MD-11 and they had a 3-4-3 configuration in Y

One third of the Y cabin is 3-4-2, two thirds 3-4-3.

With the cheapest booking classes, you cannot have pre-assigned seat in the 3-4-2 cabin before you check in for the flight. But at check-in, all Y booking classes can be seated also in that section (excluding tour groups, though, I believe).
AY and ANA rock!
 
kappel
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RE: Cabin Makeover At KLM

Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 15):
And yes, they changed the phase out year from 2012 to 2015, but you never know....

WOW... with Finnair about to replace (at least some of) their MD-11's with a343's, and Thai also retiring theirs, KLM may perhaps be the last pax MD11 opertator in 2015, or when they finish replacing them in what..2017? Any idea why they pushed the date back another 3 years? Waiting for the a350?  biggrin 
Or of course the 787-10, but that would make little sense since they operate a new fleet of 772's. Or perhaps they saw that to replace them in 2012 they would have to order this year and were not up to it?
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