NWDC10
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Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:17 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11257725/ What will happen to DL if they strike? Robert NWDC10
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:23 pm

A pilot strike for any extended period of time would mean the end of the airline, pure and simple. That is true for Delta and Northwest. I'd say any strike longer than a week or so could be the nail in the coffin.

It's highly unlikely that a strike will occur, since both sides know it could spell the end. Then again, the pilots have already given up a lot.....at what point will management stop asking for more paycuts? Not until everyone is eligible for food stamps would be my guess.
 
ilikeyyc
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:32 pm

Did I miss something? Have the pilots already taken a strike vote?

Like I have said elsewhere, I do not believe the pilots will strike and that they are just doing this to scare management and keep their members happy.
Likewise, DL said that a strike will be the end of Delta to scare all those who are happy to have a job into not supporting a strike. I won't believe anything from either side until it actually happens.
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:36 pm

From an objective point (we're all objective here, right?  Wink), we all know any strike, even a few days, is the end of shop for DL. Management knows this, yet still wants to test the pilots to see exactly how far they can get them to putting them on food stamps.

DeltaGuy
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ChiGB1973
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting Ilikeyyc (Reply 2):
Did I miss something? Have the pilots already taken a strike vote?

They will still have a 30 day cooling off period, right? They haven't been through that yet I do not think? NW on the other hand is closing in on the cooling off end date.

I imagine the outcome of NW's pilots mechanics will have a lot to do with what happens here.

I believe DL will be a bit more responsive to their employees than NW has been. I think NW is in real trouble when it comes to working with their employees.

Just my $.02. I am hoping the best for all the airline employees out there!

Good luck guys and gals!

M
 
Lono
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:23 pm

They are aware of the issue... but I don't understand why they think DL has the money left to make them happy.... I will miss DL.... sad indeed... who has the best poker face.. they (pilots) think there is more money for them... this will be interesting for the rest of the "legacies"... part of the new paradigm that has been discussed.... Just imagine the outfall... Wow...!!
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flywithjohn
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:38 pm

If they strike it won't last long because other unions will pressure them to resume the fact the jobs are gone will force a resume and managers will give in quickly and quietly.
On a lighter note I almost busted a gut with the no more tears signature

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 3):
DeltaGuy



If you smacked a kid in the face with a bottle of Johnson and Johnson's No More Tears, would it create beautiful irony?
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WesternA318
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:41 pm

*guilty of busting gut*

Well, I for one live in SLC, and although Id hate to see the airport 2/3 empty, I'll be relieved DL is gone.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
Jumpseat70
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:17 pm

Yes well you're irresponsible!! Mr. Western A318, for saying that.

You haven't even thought of the ramifications of that comment. Nor do I think you think at all. Flame back at me all you want. I don't care anymore than you do about your convictions or philosophy's.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 4):
They will still have a 30 day cooling off period, right?

Not if DL management cancels the pilots contract. If the contract is voided, a strike could happen immediately.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9):
Not if DL management cancels the pilots contract. If the contract is voided, a strike could happen immediately.

March 1 is the deadline for management and the pilots to come to a deal. If not, I believe the arbitrator will have 45 days from that point on to make a decision whether to throw out the contract or not. If the decision then is to throw out the contract, then the pilots are free to strike.
 
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malaysia
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting Flywithjohn (Reply 6):
If they strike it won't last long because other unions will pressure them to resume the fact the jobs are gone will force a resume and managers will give in quickly and quietly.
On a lighter note I almost busted a gut with the no more tears signature

There are no other Unions at DL to pressure them...

the Pilots are the only Union at Delta
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isitsafenow
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:32 pm

Now that the media has reported this possible pilot strike, you can bet the bank that Delta's advance bookings are heading for the toliet. Perhaps that will jump start the talks next week.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
leelaw
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:44 pm

WSJ (02/10/06):

Delta Offers Pilots A Payment Plan If Pensions Are Cut

"Delta Air Lines' newest contract offer to its pilots includes a $300 million payment if it terminates their pension plan, according to people familiar with the matter, a move that has intensified fears among pilots that Delta could become the latest airline to foist underfunded pension obligations onto the federal government....

...The current contract proposal Delta has before the Air Line Pilots Association includes a provision that would kick in if Delta turned over the obligations to the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. The offer would give the union a $300 million interest-bearing note in the event that the airline terminates the plan, said the people familiar with the matter.

...John Culp, an Air Line Pilots Association spokesman, said any payment that Delta pilots would get in return for terminating their pension plan would be a fraction of what the airline would save by escaping its obligations. Some higher-paid employees whose pension plans are turned over to the PBGC typically lose a portion of their benefits..."
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Ken777
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:06 am

I worked for a company that went under - a retailer. As soon as they were placed in receivership customers stopped paying on their accounts. In the airline business customers will look to other airlines. The retailer liquidated, but the way.

With that experience I think it's time that the pilots look at what they will be left with and not what they "give up". If DL liquidates they give up their full paycheck and all of their benefits.

I also believe that DL's management needs to give up a lot in terms of pay, perks and, or course, THEIR pension. They need to demonstrate that they are taking a hit that is at least as hard as the pilots are getting.

You only have to have gone through the experience once to know that keeping the jobs going is more important that standing by their principles.
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 13):
...John Culp, an Air Line Pilots Association spokesman, said any payment that Delta pilots would get in return for terminating their pension plan would be a fraction of what the airline would save by escaping its obligations. Some higher-paid employees whose pension plans are turned over to the PBGC typically lose a portion of their benefits..."

Unless the pilots hold out and somehow convince the arbitrator to not void there contract the pension plan as they know it is going away. It behooves the pilots to negotiate a settlement here. The reason for this is that if the pilots strike DL will Ch 7 and the pension plan will terminate. The secured creditors will get the money first any everyone else will loose. If they negotiate a setlement they will still loose the pension plan (it will go to the PBGC) and they will get whatever the PBGC can afford to pay, plus whatever the settlement offer they agree to.

My guess is that the pilots will loose the arbitration, so they should negotiate as far as possible and accept whatever deal they get at the end, it has the highest possible return for them. IF DL goes under many of there pilots will have a near $0 NPV on their certificates.
 
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ptharris
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:40 am

Wow... greed greed greed. It's all you see anymore. Is there an airline where everyone (including management) that works for the greater good? Or is that gone the way of the wagon? Too bad, I agree that if the pilots threw their hands up, so will Delta all together. It'd be a sad day to see the Widget die.  Sad
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting Jumpseat70 (Reply 8):
You haven't even thought of the ramifications of that comment. Nor do I think you think at all. Flame back at me all you want. I don't care anymore than you do about your convictions or philosophy's.

Wow is that sarcasm or a cry for help? Either way, if he hates Delta why do you care...he's entitled to his opinion. Most people here hate US Airways and Mesa anyways. I personally don't care for uptight a.netters that get all defensive when someone states an opinion.
 
deltamd88
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:47 am

I just booked a flight out of ROA for the 16th through 19th of March. I would really hate to see Delta die, I have flown them since 1992 (after Eastern and PanAm went under) and have loved them ever since. This got me wondering...would other Skyteam airlines provide service for Delta's ticketed passengers if the airline were to fold, either before or during a trip? For example would NW service DL's ROA passengers assuming they don't go under themselves?
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting Flywithjohn (Reply 6):
On a lighter note I almost busted a gut with the no more tears signature



Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 7):
*guilty of busting gut*

Glad someone finally noticed the damn thing...you two are the first to comment on it Big grin

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 15):
My guess is that the pilots will loose the arbitration,

Yeah, because of those "neutral" arbitrators. Having my fate put in the hands of these three people would keep me up at night.

DeltaGuy
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db373
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting DeltaMD88 (Reply 18):
This got me wondering...would other Skyteam airlines provide service for Delta's ticketed passengers if the airline were to fold, either before or during a trip? For example would NW service DL's ROA passengers assuming they don't go under themselves?

By law they would have too. The problem, however, is that because DL carries the second largest amount of people in the U.S. (behind American), it would be really hard for the other airlines to rebook all the people right away. I would not want to be stuck somewhere on a Delta ticket if they were to go under. There's no telling when you'd get home.

On a side note, I would think all the airlines would be jumping at the chance to help DL passengers out, because I believe Delta also has the 2nd largest FF membership in the country. I don't think they'll go the way of Chapter 7, but IMO, if they do, I think CO would profit the most, not NW. DL and CO are very similar in route structure, and the two of them have arguably the best customer service records. That coupled with the fact that CO and DL are both in Skyteam, and you can clearly see why I think this.
Keep Delta My Delta
 
Lono
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 16):
It'd be a sad day to see the Widget die.

as a former DL employee... I have to say since the DL pilot group is unionized... The pilot group has always had their way with DL... And much animosity has formed over the years.... Since the DL ground and the F/A group placed their faith in DL (bad idea yes?)... Now the line has been drawn by the DL pilot union and the rest will be history...(EA?)... Sorry to say but I think DL is done...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 11):
There are no other Unions at DL to pressure them...

the Pilots are the only Union at Delta

IIRC, the dispatchers at DL are also unionized.
Fly fast, live slow
 
deltamd88
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 pm

Db373,

Thanks for the info!  Smile
 
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ptharris
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:25 pm

So, what are the deadlines anyhow? If this were to happen, what would be the timeline, as an example? I mean, would they come to a complete stand still or would they struggle along and then just fall apart? I'm curious how this would all shake down. I do hope they can somehow work things out. I know that there are some serious die hard DL people that say nothing is going to happen, yet some other serious die hard DL employees and fans are starting to think the end may be coming. Has Delta come out and said anything about all this, or is this just rumor as it unfolds?
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 24):
So, what are the deadlines anyhow?

March 1 is the deadline for ALPA and DL to come to a mutually acceptable solution on their own. If they don't, at that time, the arbitration panel will start to take over the case. I believe the arbitrators will have 45 days to make a decision.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 25):

I would guess the pilots at Northwest would have the type of formula. Their voting ends Feb 28th. Now tack on apx 45 days plus the 30 days cooling off and you have a strike date close to May 15th or so. Anyone else have some input here?
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
alphaomega
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:35 am

I'm all for the pilots fighting to keep their pay from getting cut even more, but threatening to strike, especially when they announce that if the contrat isn't accepted they WILL strike, is a sad strategy. I know I'm simplifying this and I'm sure they realize it, but if they do strike, even for a day, they'll take one hell of a paycut, as they will be unemployed.
 
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malaysia
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:50 am

In this time and age for Commercial Aviation, I feel JOB SECURITY is what everyone should look for, not payrates.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 7):
Well, I for one live in SLC, and although Id hate to see the airport 2/3 empty, I'll be relieved DL is gone.

Well, I for one live in SLC, and although Id hate to see the airport 2/3 empty, I'll be relieved DL is gone.[/quote]
This is defiantly coming form a person whose check doesn't come from Delta, I wont lie Delta may not be the 100% best airlines out there. But it is way far from the worst. I think that the pilots need to look around at ACS and TechOps and realize that they (salary wise) are taking the least cut of all. Although their job is important, Lets face it the do the least actual work in the airline. I understand in this world we get paid by our worth. But stop crying over a single digit percent number when people in ACS are being slammed with 19 and 40 percent cuts. Just call BMW and take the 3 series instead of the 745 its still a beamer.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 29):
I think that the pilots need to look around at ACS and TechOps and realize that they (salary wise) are taking the least cut of all. Although their job is important, Lets face it the do the least actual work in the airline.

Bullllllllllshit. 50% of anything is alot, and that's what the pilots have taken essentially. Salary wise, they've taken the BIGGEST paycut, both in terms of dollars and percentages. They may do less "work" than you do throwing bags, but you don't have the liabilty or responsibility of a multi-million dollar aircraft or hundreds of lives at your hands...therefore, it's not a matter of work amount, it's a matter of risk/liability/trust- that's where the big bucks comes in. Also, no offense to rampers or ACS folks (as I was once upon a time a ramper), but that's unskilled labor...you can get any scab to do that. You cannot find [quality] pilots just anywhere.

DeltaGuy
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H53Epilot
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:26 am

Not so sure. There are thousands of qualified pilots who would love to slide into any seat at DAL and be more than happy to fly for proposed management pay cuts. It's a supply and demand issue.

[Edited 2006-02-12 00:35:42]
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 26):
I would guess the pilots at Northwest would have the type of formula. Their voting ends Feb 28th. Now tack on apx 45 days plus the 30 days cooling off and you have a strike date close to May 15th or so. Anyone else have some input here?

NW is coming up on the end of their cooling off period, right? The strike vote is scheduled to be completed at about the time the cooling off period is, I thought. Maybe I read it wrong or just not closely enough. Good luck to all the guys/girls, NW and DL!

Quoting H53Epilot (Reply 31):
Not so sure. There are thousands of qualified pilots who would love to slide into any seat at DAL and be more than happy to fly for proposed management pay cuts. It's a supply and demand issue.

I am not sure, but I do not think any pilot is qualified to fly Delta jets unless going through DL's training program. Even if that were not the case, qualified and quality are miles apart.

M
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:07 am

OK, maybe I'm dense but here's one thing I don't understand. Both DL and the pilots agreed to submit the case to the arbitrators if they cannot come to a mutually acceptable solution. That should imply that each side would accept the arbitrators' decision, whatever that may be. But by saying that they will strike if the arbitrator decides in favor of DL (i.e., throw out the contract), aren't the pilots essentially saying that they won't accept the arbitrators' decision if it doesn't go their way? So why bother with the arbitration in the first place? That's the same as if DL management said they would go ahead and impose the new conditions anyway if the arbitrators decide in favor of the pilots?
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 33):
aren't the pilots essentially saying that they won't accept the arbitrators' decision if it doesn't go their way?

No. The pilots would be accepting the arbitrators decision by allowing DL to throw out a legally-binding contract. The pilots don't believe that DL has the right to dump their contract. So allowing DL to do so would be accepting the arbitrators decision.

However, the arbitrator's decision has nothing to do with forcing the pilots to work under those conditions. Without a contract, the DL pilots become at-will employees. Like all at-will employees, the pilots don't have to come to work.

It's no different than any of DL's non-union groups. If the FA's at DL decided they didn't want to go to work tomorrow, they could all just no-show. It would paralyze DL and probably kill the airline. DL would have no recourse except to fire all the FA's which still wouldn't solve any of DL's problems.
 
supa7E7
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
It's no different than any of DL's non-union groups. If the FA's at DL decided they didn't want to go to work tomorrow, they could all just no-show. It would paralyze DL and probably kill the airline. DL would have no recourse except to fire all the FA's which still wouldn't solve any of DL's problems.

What a bizarre notion. Of course the F/As would not possibly strike, because they are non-union.

What we are witnessing is the harm done by even mere threats. Investors and customers are worried sick about Delta because certain men believe they have the right to tap into one of America's economic jugulars. I say that is the bullsh/t notion here. If you want to own a company, buy it. If not, work hard and stand up like men... don't make childish threats about other people's property.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
n917me
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:41 am

Sorry, but a strike at NW or DL simply put, will not happen. Both sides remember what a strike did to Eastern. Besides which is better less money or no money???
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 35):
If you want to own a company, buy it. If not, work hard and stand up like men... don't make childish threats about other people's property.

Many of the pilots are in fact owners of DL as they are shareholders. Granted DL's shares aren't worth much these days.

And in reality, the pilots are probably the greatest "owners" of DL. Management teams come and go with little loyalty to the company. Investors buy and sell stock with little loyalty. The non-union employees have a better chance of finding new employment if DL were to go under. By far, the pilots have the most to lose.

I don't think the pilots necessarily object to giving concessions. However, they do object to management's refusal to negotiate and management's lack of accountability for poor decision making.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 35):
If you want to own a company, buy it. If not, work hard and stand up like men... don't make childish threats about other people's property.

If you'd ever want to make a qualified statement, do it!

How about, telling the company not to keep pumping money out of the labor every time they make a bad call and need some extra money to cover it up? They're the ones taking the property, whether it be a gate agent's new pickup, or a pilot's new BMW...irrelevant.

DeltaGuy
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bucky707
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 1):
Then again, the pilots have already given up a lot.....at what point will management stop asking for more paycuts?

simple, management will keep asking for pay cuts as long as they think they could get more. I don't blame them, I'd do the same thing in their shoes. But until labor says no, management will keep coming back for more.

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 12):
Now that the media has reported this possible pilot strike, you can bet the bank that Delta's advance bookings are heading for the toliet. Perhaps that will jump start the talks next week.

this is a great point. A strike does not have to actually happen for the pilots to have great leverage.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 25):
March 1 is the deadline for ALPA and DL to come to a mutually acceptable solution on their own. If they don't, at that time, the arbitration panel will start to take over the case. I believe the arbitrators will have 45 days to make a decision.

Small point, but the arbitrators only decide whether or not Delta can throw out the contract.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 33):
Both DL and the pilots agreed to submit the case to the arbitrators if they cannot come to a mutually acceptable solution. That should imply that each side would accept the arbitrators' decision, whatever that may be. But by saying that they will strike if the arbitrator decides in favor of DL (i.e., throw out the contract), aren't the pilots essentially saying that they won't accept the arbitrators' decision if it doesn't go their way? So why bother with the arbitration in the first place?

Both sides wanted this arbitration. The last judge made everyone nervous. Basically both sides agreed to let arbitrators, who are well versed in airline contracts, make the decision on throwing out the contract instead of the judge.
 
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ptharris
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting N917ME (Reply 36):
Sorry, but a strike at NW or DL simply put, will not happen. Both sides remember what a strike did to Eastern. Besides which is better less money or no money???

I totally agree with you and this statement. However, there's a lot of unions that look the other way to this theory. Greed sometimes clouds what's more important especially if you feel confident if you bet against the house, you'll win big. Hopefully these pilots will heed the past with Eastern, as an example, and hang in there. When DL and NW get more solvent, perhaps they'll have better ground to stand on. At least they would have more leverage, I suppose.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
CruzinAltitude
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:32 am

My only question is, is there a Hearse big enough to take Delta to the Grave Yard? Bottom line, they'll need it if a strike happens!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 20):
By law they would have too. The problem, however, is that because DL carries the second largest amount of people in the U.S. (behind American), it would be really hard for the other airlines to rebook all the people right away. I would not want to be stuck somewhere on a Delta ticket if they were to go under. There's no telling when you'd get home.

It will be a madhouse trying to rebook if any of the large majors were to go under in today's high load factor environment. I was thinking what would happen to DL's fleet if they were to fold:

777: would find a new home pretty quick, probably not domestic (unless AA acts)
763ER's: Also would find a home quick (except possibly the oldest ones or ones right before a D-check)
older 762's: being retired anyway
757's: Tough sell. The newest will probalby find homes, the oldest will be very tough to place.
738's: Quick and easy to place
MD80's: Sadly, the Maddogs will be hard to place. AA might take the newest if they're cheap enough.
MD90's: these become available in a convienient 12oz size almost immediately.
CRJ's: Just too many. The market is soft to begin with. This could break Bombardier.

I hope the widget survives... I hope.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 42):
CRJ's: Just too many. The market is soft to begin with. This could break Bombardier.

Who's RJ's are you selling? ASA is a separate company from Delta, so luckily we'd be fine. Comair's would probably return to GECAS and then again, ASA might pick up some of these that were owned by Comair.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 28):
In this time and age for Commercial Aviation, I feel JOB SECURITY is what everyone should look for, not payrates.

This is 2006, not 1926. You can't plan on being with the same employer for your entire workign life anymore. It's just not valid. That goes for aviation AND any other industry..

Job security, while it would be nice, seems to be a thing of the past.

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
georgiaame
Posts: 955
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:17 am

The pilots have one of two choices. No job. Or a lower paying job. Status quo is not an option on their table.

The unions (in general) haven't done the public a lick of good since the muck raking days of the late 19th century. They have, however, dramatically driven up the price of domestic cars here in the US, they have demolished America's industrial base,(think GM or the steel industry), and they have very successfully removed several airlines from the air. Eastern comes to mind, just off the bat.

Anecdotally, several of my Delta patients have stated flat out that they aren't going to strike, because they know if they do, they are permanently out of a job.
Anecdotes do not make fact, (any more than the frequent, emotional outbursts on this site do), but I certainly trust them more than I would a spokesman from the Delta Pilot's union.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Delta Pilots Will Strike Of Contract Rejected!

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 30):
You cannot find [quality] pilots just anywhere.



Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 32):
I am not sure, but I do not think any pilot is qualified to fly Delta jets unless going through DL's training program. Even if that were not the case, qualified and quality are miles apart.

No disrespect intended; however, I don't believe DL has the market cornered on quality pilots.

As for all the other arguments that generally imply DL's pilots are getting screwed, weren't they the same group of pilots that got management to give them the highest salaries in the industry back in 2000?

Seems to me since the airline was obviously willing to share the wealth when the industry was booming pre-9/11 then the pilots could, at a minimum, make some sacrifices, however painful, in order to see this grand old lady and all others who serve her survive until she sees better days again (and is again able to share the wealth).

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 44):
This is 2006, not 1926. You can't plan on being with the same employer for your entire workign life anymore. It's just not valid. That goes for aviation AND any other industry..

Job security, while it would be nice, seems to be a thing of the past.

Articulated very well. And a major reason why the legacies are struggling is because their business model has not changed despite the changing market. Detroit (GM, Ford) are also suffering from the same ailment because they too have not changed.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.

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