TriStar500
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"Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:10 pm

Take a look at this (sorry, in German only):

http://www.munich-airlines.de/home.html

Sounds like a strange kind of venuture, trying to fill an L1011 on a weekly flight from MUC to BDA. Is this a hoax/ scam/ virtual airline or is actually someone willing to burn a truckload of money on a unviable route with an ill-suited aircraft?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Chiguire
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:23 pm

WOW, this is strange. Never heard of them. But if you have a closer look at their website it does not look "virtual". The impressum shows:
Industrieflug IPS Air Service GmbH & Co. KG

Flughafen München
General Aviation Terminal
85356 München, Germany
Tel. +49 (89) 315 01 47
Fax +49 (89) 262 19 719
E-Mail: info@MunichAirlines.com

Very interesting. I wonder what they will do with this aircraft the rest of the week.
 
TriStar500
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:25 pm

Maybe it would just be a wetlease, but from whom? I am not so sure if e.g. some of those shady Jordanian operators, which stil fly some old L1011's, are allowed to operate from Germany. Also, ferrying the aircraft to MUC just for a weekly flight sounds like an economic overkill.
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HT
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:38 pm

on the website given they claim the following:

  • Using L-1011 with 166 seats only.
  • Airline code I2
  • flights starting 02-JUN-2006
  • Bookings being available on Amadeus (couldn´t find them on Amadeus yet)
  • They state a number of cooperating travel companies.
  • They are a registered company under Geman laws (details are stated)


Overall this looks a bit weird from the operational point of view, but rather professional from a marketing point of view.

As they state by themself, Bermuda is not a very well known market from Germany, I have my personal doubts whether this venture will last for very long ... However I DO wish them all the best of luck !
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 3):
Overall this looks a bit weird from the operational point of view, but rather professional from a marketing point of view.

Seems as if it is a pure marketing gag for Bermudas and Munich Airport.
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TriStar500
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:52 pm

IPS Air Service is/ was located at MUC. They are currently operating a single Beech Super King Air.


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Seemingly the slots for the weekly service have been requested and already granted.
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beowulf
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:11 pm

I remember reading that a Salzburg based aircraft charter / pilot school company now owns and leases an L1011. Maybe that's where the a/c comes from.

Here are two links
http://www.bfs.co.at/tristar.htm - BFS is the "owner"
http://www.austrianaviation.net/A050511A.htm
http://www.geocities.com/airlinerhomepage/tristar.html

[Edited 2006-02-14 11:12:35]
 
gearup380
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:19 pm

I believe the route might become a success, considered that BA fills 4 777s per week from LGW and to my knowledge is the only carrier currently linking Europe and BDA. I'm sure that if the price is low enough, the TriStar won't take off with many empty seats.
Excess baggage? Oh come on...
 
HT
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:24 pm

With only 166 pax in a L-1011 they must earn a premium yield in order to earn a profit from that flight.

Also:
I2 101 is listed as arriving at BDA at 1650h on Friday, while the return IS 102 leaves from BDA more than 24h later at 1730h on Saturday.

It can be assumed that the a/c will try to do some more work out of BDA in the meantime ... (maybe a quick rotation to either the U.S., Canada or to U.K. ?)
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
TriStar500
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting Gearup380 (Reply 7):
I believe the route might become a success, considered that BA fills 4 777s per week from LGW and to my knowledge is the only carrier currently linking Europe and BDA. I'm sure that if the price is low enough, the TriStar won't take off with many empty seats.

However, a 166-seat Executive class interior, a maintenance- and fuel-intensive old L1011 and low fares just don't add up.
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tymnbalewne
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:28 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 8):
Also:
I2 101 is listed as arriving at BDA at 1650h on Friday, while the return IS 102 leaves from BDA more than 24h later at 1730h on Saturday.

It can be assumed that the a/c will try to do some more work out of BDA in the meantime ... (maybe a quick rotation to either the U.S., Canada or to U.K. ?)
-HT

Or perhaps it's to allow for both crew rest and a reasonable departure time from BDA and arrival time in MUC.

C.
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Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:38 pm

The BFS Tristar was never put on the Austrian register. It is back with Starjet and has since been moved from the Sierra Leone to the Kyrgyzhstan register. The aircraft (now registered EX-089) has done some Hajj flying this season.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
Chiguire
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:43 pm

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 11):
The aircraft (now registered EX-089) has done some Hajj flying this season.

And with this aircraft they want to do flights with "executive" service ??
How old is it ?
 
TriStar500
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:54 pm

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 12):
And with this aircraft they want to do flights with "executive" service ??
How old is it ?

It is unclear, which aircraft will be used. This would just be one possible example.
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TriStar500
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:39 pm

Please excuse the bumping of this thread, but the internet webpage of "Munich Airlines" ( http://www.munich-airlines.de/ ) has just been taken offline.

Hmmm... an early April Fool's joke after all?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
KM732
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 14):
Please excuse the bumping of this thread, but the internet webpage of "Munich Airlines" ( http://www.munich-airlines.de/ ) has just been taken offline.

This link: http://www.munich-airlines.de/home.html is still fully working though  Wink!

Best regards,

STEFAN
 
Chiguire
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 14):
Hmmm... an early April Fool's joke after all?

I definetly don't think it's a joke. The 2-letter code is loaded in all GDS and the flights are displayed in Sabre with only "C" class. But they still don't show an availability.
Fares are also still not loaded.

This is much too expensive for a joke.
 
hiflyer
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:56 am

I thought there was an interview with the BDA tourism chief Dr Brown that this bird would jump to the states...though a smaller airport...and then return. Could BDA give this carrier 5th freedom rights to carry local traffic to/from the states?
 
Chiguire
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 17):
Could BDA give this carrier 5th freedom rights to carry local traffic to/from the states?

I guess they could....but it needs two for that.....
 
txkf2010
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:12 am

I dont know about the aircraft details but it is true that a germany airline or something of the sort will be coming to Bermuda from Germany this summer
...Rastafari Stands Alone...
 
474218
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:18 am

I would say that a L-1011-500 with 166 business class seat would be a very nice fit MUC to BDA.
 
HAM
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:44 am

The flights might not be on sale separately, only in holiday packages. There are those packages available: http://www.world-travel.net/preise/bermuda/ber.htm only in german, sorry. found it through google.
 
HT
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:31 am

The website posted by HAM in #21 has more figures:
166 seats in "Bermuda" (Business class seats with an exclusive service) PLUS 58 seats in "Bermuda Gold" (Business class seats with a VIP service).

Feeder flights into MUC are bookable on DI.

Calculated from the stated prices for a package tour and extra weeks, the price for flight incl. transfer is 1680 EUR.
"Bermuda Gold" is listed with a supplemental 97 EUR only.

With a fare of 1680 EUR (minus a couple of EUR that will stay at the travel agency and for "transfer" at BDA), and 166+58=224 pax it might be financially viable for the airline, if the leasing rates are low and fuelprices don´t go up (the L-1011 consumes quite an amount of fuel ...).
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
AMSSFO
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting HAM (Reply 21):
http://www.world-travel.net/preise/bermuda/ber.htm only in german, sorry. found it through google.

From the PDF:
"Luxury for less" … stilvoll reisen in Business Class
Bermuda Class, stilvoll reisen mit 166 Business- Class Sitze. Exklusiver Bord Service, feine Speisen und Getränke.
Bermuda Gold Class, exklusive 58 Business Class Sitze Kabine. VIP- Bord Service, erlesene Speisen und Getränke.


which would make a more likely total of 224 seats


Munich Airlines - I2 / Bermuda Class: Z / Bermuda Gold: A / AMADEUS: RP/AGBL1211G
DI - L - Class 02.Jun.06 31.Okt.06 EUR194
DI - K - Class 02.Jun.06 31.Okt.06 EUR243
Hochsaison Zuschlag für Abflüge im Zeitraum Hochsaison 17.Jul.06 03.Sep.06 EUR121
Bermuda Gold Class (A) Aufpreis 02.Jun.06 31.Okt.06 97 64
 
Chiguire
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting HT (Reply 22):
With a fare of 1680 EUR (minus a couple of EUR that will stay at the travel agency and for "transfer" at BDA), and 166+58=224 pax it might be financially viable for the airline

This might be OK for the airline, but not for the passenger (at least not for many of them). Imagine a fare of 1680 to BDA ! The lowest BA fare ex MUC is around 680 Euro. OK, business starts at 2800.

I would definetly prefer BAs WT plus class for 1115 Euro. There I can fly every day, stay 7,8,10 days (not 7 or 14 or 21) and fly with 777 instead of a L1011.

I am sure - IF they start - they will have to lower the fare between the 680 and those 1115 soon otherwise they go empty. (if the go...)
 
A342
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:58 am

224 business class seats in a Tristar ? What definition of "business class" do these guys have ?

I´d be very surprised to see this airline really take off, although I hope it does.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
474218
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:47 am

One of Lockheed early cabin layouts for the L-1011 was for 256 passengers. 52 First Class and 204 Coach. There were 9 rows in first class, 6 abreast (including 1 row of 4 abreast), and 26 rows of 8 abreast in coach (with 3 rows of 7 abreast). With this arrangement the First Class cabin used a 38" seat pitch and the Coach Cabin had 36" pitch, so 58 First and 166 Business would provde ample room.
 
AMSSFO
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 25):
224 business class seats in a Tristar ? What definition of "business class" do these guys have ?

From A/C data at a.net: L1011-500: Max seating for 330 in a single class 10 abreast layout at 76cm (30in) pitch. Typical two class seating for 24 premium class at six abreast and 222 economy at nine abreast. Underfloor cargo holds can accommodate 19 standard LD3 freight containers.

224 business class should easily fit
 
474218
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:34 pm

T

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 27):
From A/C data at a.net: L1011-500: Max seating for 330 in a single class 10 abreast layout at 76cm (30in) pitch.

a.net A/C data is incorrect. The L-1011-500 is certified for a maximum of 315 passengers. The L-1011-1 thru -250 can seat up to 400 passengers if they are equipped with 8 Type A doors. If they have 6 Type A doors and 2 Type 1 doors they are limited to 362 passengers.
 
TriStar500
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:53 pm

What's the price for a used L1011-500 (I assume, it will be one of them because of the -524B engines, which are more widely supported than the old -22B's) nowadays? I assume buying one for 2-3 Mio. Euro might be more worthwhle than leasing one. However, the costs of reactivation and preparation for service entry might be much higher than the initial acqusition costs.

Could this L15 have something to do with the venture?


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A342
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 27):
224 business class should easily fit

I´d rather call it Premium-Y, nowadays longhaul business class is about 60in pitch, and, in case of the Tristar, would have 7 or 6-abreast.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Birdwatching
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RE: "Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?

Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 1):
I wonder what they will do with this aircraft the rest of the week.

Repair it?

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