leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:54 am

(Dow Jones) PARIS -- The French government is to consult with the civil aviation authorities of Ireland and the U.K. over allegations by a U.K. television documentary that Irish no-frills airline Ryanair Holdings PLC has been lax in respecting safety rules.

In a statement Transport Minister Dominique Perben said he has asked the French civil aviation authority DGAC to get in touch with its Irish and U.K. counterparts on the matter.

"This move is justified as Ryanair has a solid presence in France," the statement said.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:57 am

That's ok - co operation between the civil aviation authorities should be much better.
So when there was a tv documentary about Ryan Air being unsafe (or whatever), they should check it. I only wonder that the governments get the infos from this sort of source :-/
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
HBDAN
Posts: 560
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RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:59 am

Hey the french government has a chance to get FR out of France! They (AF & French government) won't lose it!

VIVE LA REVOLUTION!!! What a nice present for AF for St. Valentin!

Regards,
HBDAN
 laughing 
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
richardw
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:05 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the italians decided to have a go as well.
 
oneworld1
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:38 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 2):



Quoting Richardw (Reply 3):

Here's hoping!!
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:09 am

It just shows you how damaging inaccurate tv programmes can be - they can ruin businesses and the airline is left without the option of giving an unedited explanation.

Makes me embarrassed to have journalists like this in the UK.

Airways45
 
Eirjet
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:09 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am

didn't see the programme, but heard about it in the press today - FR are consulting their legal advisors.

Eirjet.
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:21 am

Airways - which bit was inaccurate. It looked accurate to me. Whilst not unearthing anything particularly nasty, it made its point that this was an airline in a hurry.
 
BCAL
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:41 am

From a Press Release on the FR website it states:

Quote:
Both the Civil Aviation Authority in the UK and the Irish Aviation Authority in Ireland have also confirmed that there was "no substance in any of the allegations made in the letter from the production company".

The allegations made in the letter from the production company were covered in the programme. If the CAA and IAA both confirm that there is no substance in any of the allegations, the DGAC will in all probably accept their findings and report to the French Government accordingly. If, by rare chance, the French Government orders their own independent investigation, they would probably face a backlash not only from FR but also the Eire Government.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:42 am

People have come into my office today and said they are never going to fly Ryanair and they didn't even watch the programme...

I just got irritated by the C4 press info saying things like 'will make you think twice about flying Ryanair'. That's powerful stuff...

Airways45
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 9):
I just got irritated by the C4 press info saying things like 'will make you think twice about flying Ryanair'. That's powerful stuff...

Although I agree with you, and also on the part where you said the UK media is shameful at times.

Dispatches is one of these programs that makes a big BANG when it is first shown, then things go quiet... I strongly believe Ryanair will not be affected too much by this programming.

Remember the dispatches program about BA about 4 years ago? The filming of crew drinking alcohol just a few hours before getting on a flight? It shook the company down to its core, but it was forgotten just as quickly as it erupted.

I must say that if there's one thing good about this program on Ryanair, is that hopefully FR will review its training and maybe, just maybe, offer better working conditions for its staff, even if prices have to rise slightly. I know I certainly would NEVER work under the conditions shown in the program. Cabin crew at Ryanair is a completely different job to cabin crew at BA!

Safe flying.
Alan.
 
BestWestern
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 10):
It shook the company down to its core

And BA did something about it. Ryanair are sticking their heads in the sand. One thing it will do is make many think twice about working as an FR hostie. I cant believe how little they get paid.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
oneworld1
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:38 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 8):

Irish government. Eire was the countrys name up to the 40's I think.

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 10):

I agree, from our perspective their is nothing new customer service wise. However, if they're clever, they can make the co. ethos one of safety and catch individuals who have lax attitudes. Only a strong company mindset can do this. BA made changes as result of 'their' programme, although they'd be loathe to admit so.

I watched it with someone who travels once a year on a charter who thinks dbv is an exotic location, he vowed never. I even pointed out they'd be cheap for us to use to go to glasgow for upcoming stag weekend and it was vetoed. We may be inured to what was said in the programme, but will the public? BA recognised this and acted.
 
icarus75
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:18 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 2):
Hey the french government has a chance to get FR out of France!

No way!!! FR serves only "secodary" airports, bringing hundreds of english people coming to France and spend money all year round!!!
French government has no interest if FR pulls out and FR has no interest in not serving France anymore!
Flying is amazing!
 
jmc757
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 3:36 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 5):
It just shows you how damaging inaccurate tv programmes can be - they can ruin businesses and the airline is left without the option of giving an unedited explanation.

Makes me embarrassed to have journalists like this in the UK.

So the following is of no concern:

1) Important safety regulation exams taken with open books
2) Cabin crew worked so hard they are sleeping on flights
3) Passports clearly not being checked to satusfactory standards

I'm not Ryanair's biggest fan, but I don't hate them either, I would fly them tomorrow. However there are some issues raised by the programme that in my opinion could do with addressing.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 8):
From a Press Release on the FR website it states:

Quote:
Both the Civil Aviation Authority in the UK and the Irish Aviation Authority in Ireland have also confirmed that there was "no substance in any of the allegations made in the letter from the production company".

I read that as well, and must say I am dissapointed that the CAA and IAA saw the programme and saw nothing of concern. Sure, there was nothing horrendous, but I would have thought they might have something to say about the three issues above.

[Edited 2006-02-14 19:34:40]
 
lehovec
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:21 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Sa

Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 10):
must say that if there's one thing good about this program on Ryanair, is that hopefully FR will review its training and maybe, just maybe, offer better working conditions for its staff, even if prices have to rise slightly. I know I certainly would NEVER work under the conditions shown in the program. Cabin crew at Ryanair is a completely different job to cabin crew at BA!

Cabin crew at FR is a completely different job to cabin crew at any company.

- no crew food
- paying for training
- paying for uniform
- paying for ID pass
- paying for car park
- not getting language payment
- no basic salary whilst on crewlink contract
and the list goes on
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting Lehovec (Reply 15):
Cabin crew at FR is a completely different job to cabin crew at any company.

- no crew food
- paying for training
- paying for uniform
- paying for ID pass
- paying for car park
- not getting language payment
- no basic salary whilst on crewlink contract
and the list goes on

They also pay £1,400-1,500 for training.

Did they undertake considerable and proper research into FR and what they could expect before shelling out that money? Any reasonable person MUST have done the research and so MUST have known what it would be like. Consequently, it is absurd for them to turnaround and say 'Im worked very hard and I'm very tired' - they knew they would be. Moreover, if they turn around and say 'I didn't have any idea,' then tough titty - any reasonable person would have done considerable prior research before forking out a considerable sum of money on a life-altering thing, so that is no excuse.

As long as FR's practices are lawful, I see no problem with it in theory. However, it could - as ALL businesses could - improve its firm-employee relationship still further, thereby improving motivation (through a feeling of happiness, security, money, etc.), productivity (can do more things more often), better quality (the things it does it does to be better level, like customer service/helping, more sales, etc.), etc., etc. Indeed, I firmly believe that employer-all stakeholder relationships are essential and the costs invested in the development thereof would almost certainly be offset by the numerous benefits. So, it should be regarded as an investment rather than a mere and annoying cost.

In summary, no sensible person would have spent £1,400-£1,500 on training and be willing to pay for a lot of their things for employment without a very good idea of what to expect in employment. So, for them to turn around and say 'Im worked very hard and I'm very tired' just shouldn't stand. However, nothing's perfect and there's certainly room for considerable improvement - within FR and all other firms.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7039
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:08 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 16):



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 16):
However, nothing's perfect and there's certainly room for considerable improvement - within FR and all other firms.

Has someone hijacked Pearsons username, or has he had a road to damascus moment?  Smile
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 8):
ut also the Eire Government.

I highly doubt the "Irish" government will get involved. Maybe if it was EI yes, but for FR, I severely doubt it.

Quoting Oneworld1 (Reply 12):
Irish government. Eire was the countrys name up to the 40's I think.

Eire is the name of Ireland in Irish... and does not mean "Irish". But your point is right, if we're writing in English there is no need to use a foreign langauge, it would just be like saying "but also the Deutsch government" instead of the "German government".

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 13):
French government has no interest if FR pulls out and FR has no interest in not serving France anymore!

Totally agree with you. Look at Carcassonne Airport, what would it be without FR, it's only commercial flights are operated by FR. Yet I'd like to see FR gone, and maybe EI would come back on TLS-DUB year-round as they did before FR started Dublin - Carcassonne.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 17):
Has someone hijacked Pearsons username, or has he had a road to damascus moment?

Who's Pearson? I thought I was Pe@rson. IMPOSTER!

I have always, and will always, say that nothing is EVER perfect with ANYTHING or ANYONE. Everything/everyone has flaws/downsides. So, you should obviously aim for brilliance - and obviously ideally achieve it - while realising that something to one person won't be good whereas to another it'll be fantastic. You also can't please everyone and can't please everyone equally.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:33 pm

Quoting Lehovec (Reply 15):

- no crew food

My company doesnt pay for my meals either.

Quote:

- paying for training

My company doesnt pay for my training. Infact, I dont get any - I have to master any new skills on the job.

Quote:

- paying for uniform

*Looks down at suit that compant didnt purchase* Yup, not paid for by the company, and it gets fairly expensive buying a new suite every other year or so, dry cleaning it, buying shirts etc.

Quote:

- paying for ID pass
- paying for car park
- not getting language payment

My company doesnt pay for my car, carparking, fuel or transportation costs either. I dont get luggage payment when I work away either.

Quote:

- no basic salary whilst on crewlink contract
and the list goes on

And I have previously worked on no basic salary.

I hardly think any of those 'issues' are any different from the huge raft of other jobs out there. Ryanair may be using a different model from that which the airline industry is used to, but it doesnt mean they are a bad employer because of it.

As someone else said, if you film for months on end, you *will* get enough material for an hour or two, whatever company you film at.

Working at McDonalds is different to working at the Hilton.
 
legendDC9
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:24 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:39 pm

I watched the show on Monday and really left it with nothing but a shrug, which is actually channel 4's fault and much less Ryan Air's. The build-up to this show was so great that at the very minimum you expected to see drunk pilots, engine flame-outs and maybe the occasional fist-fight between the crew. But what do we get? tests with open books, temporary ID's and planes that are not really all that clean because guess what... you can't do a full clean on a 25 minute turn. If anyone has a problem with that, it's certainly not the masses who pay a few pennies for the service and are simply happy getting from point A to point B. Give me a break, move on.
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: France To Consult With UK, Irish On Ryanair Safety

Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:58 pm

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 5):
It just shows you how damaging inaccurate tv programmes can be - they can ruin businesses and the airline is left without the option of giving an unedited explanation.

Which parts were inaccurate? Cabin crew WERE filmed asleep during flights. Cabin crew WERE filmed talking about writing references for each other. Cabin crew WERE filmed admitting that they breached security regulations on a regular basis. Senior cabin crew WERE filmed telling juniors there was no time for a full security check. An aircraft with a faulty evacuation slide WAS filmed departing without inspection. Need I go on?

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