SeeTheWorld
Topic Author
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NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:13 am

INDIANAPOLIS, Feb. 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Northwest Airlines today announced an expansion of its Indianapolis flight schedule with plans to provide new nonstop service to San Francisco, an additional daily flight to Los Angeles, the return of seasonal service to Seattle and improvements to its schedule to New York's LaGuardia Airport.

Wow! What a surprise! Typical response.
 
LGAtoIND
Posts: 416
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:19 am

What are the improvements on IND-LGA? All I see is 2x D9S and 1x CRJ, so it looks the same to me.
 
panam330
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:26 am

Didn't see this one coming now, did we? sarcastic 

Regardless of the nature of the flights, I wish them luck.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3221
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:56 am

Gee, I wonder what prompted Northworst to start this service. Could it have been AirTran jumping on it two weeks ago with 2X daily service?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
mlsrar
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
Gee, I wonder what prompted Northworst to start this service. Could it have been AirTran jumping on it two weeks ago with 2X daily service?

Regardless of your recent negativity towards NW, healthy competition is perfectly legal in this competitive environment.

Personally, I do not see them sticking around this route very long.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
Humberside
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:38 am

What are NW's current IND routes?

Thanks
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
northwestair
Posts: 514
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
Gee, I wonder what prompted Northworst to start this service. Could it have been AirTran jumping on it two weeks ago with 2X daily service?

I thought their name was AirTramp Big grin
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
airtran737
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Northwestair (Reply 6):
I thought their name was AirTramp

I've also been called AirTrash

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 4):
Regardless of your recent negativity towards NW, healthy competition is perfectly legal in this competitive environment.

I'm not saying that competition isn't legal, but this is just another example of how NW doesn't play nice with anyone other than themselves. Do you really think the IND-SFO was something that NW had planned? It is a knee jerk announcement, "what AirTran is doing IND-SFO? Yeah ....we'll do that route too, do we have a 747 lying around that we can put on that leg?"


By the way, what aircraft are they going to use on the route? I'd assume an A319, but I could be wrong.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
rumorboy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:07 am

Thats ok. They will lose money and then get it from there employees. Its been working like that now for a few years. Employees will pay. Always have, always will. I can see it now. "judge we lost millions of dollars and we have to give our executives a bonus to stay so we need another 5-10 percent from our employees its the only we can survive".
 
mlsrar
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
Do you really think the IND-SFO was something that NW had planned? It is a knee jerk announcement, "what AirTran is doing IND-SFO? Yeah ....we'll do that route too, do we have a 747 lying around that we can put on that leg?"

It was a strong candidate during the first round of IND expansion, not a knee-jerk reaction to FL's entry. Personally, I don't see this sticking around, nor having the success that NW has had with IND-SEA.

I think that FL will be able to outlast NW, though likely drop to 1x daily in the long-run.

All indications are that a 319 will be deployed.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
wedgetail737
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:14 am

NW pilots will probably be striking by this point.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:41 am

I was told months ago that NW wanted to establish long haul (3+ hours) service out of IND. This to me meaning west coast service. This would of course go along with that. However the timing is suspicious. I guess this tells everyone that NW plans on keeping IND as a focus city. Will FL respond?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:52 am

It is good to see the increased west coast service. IND is surely lacking flights to the west as there is so much competition to the Northeast and Florida. This is an old ATA route that supported 757s, so hopefully it can support these FL and NW flights.

All I hope is that the increased competition doesn't dilute the market to the point where AirTran backs out as there is a chance if FL goes, then NW will go too as it prefers to connect people via hubs. Competition is great, but if NW is in it to just drive FL out, then we will be in a worse position then when we started.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Indy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:02 am

Even with FL announcing the service on Jan 1 it still left service to LAX and SFO a bit thin. This will however give good coverage to the two markets. I don't think IND-SFO will support much more than 2 nonstop flights a day. Maybe 3 if we are lucky. I don't think this will phase FL much.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
All I hope is that the increased competition doesn't dilute the market to the point where AirTran backs out as there is a chance if FL goes, then NW will go too as it prefers to connect people via hubs.

Well this was the thinking with TZ. TZ left IND and NW didn't cut back to hub only flying. They kept their schedule in the 40's. This just starts the climb back to 50. With the new flights and the upgrade at LGA this will put 3 more mainline flights in to IND. Plus of course the seasonal mainline service to SEA and CUN.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
73G
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
but if NW is in it to just drive FL out, then we will be in a worse position then when we started.

Theres no 'if' about it. But thats alright. Northwest, an airline on the brink of extinction, will lose their shirts protecting their market share against a much healthier competitor. To be honest, I'm surprised DL hasn't found a way to stretch the range of the CR7 to make it work on this route. Maybe they can weight restrict it to 25 pax or so.
 
as739x
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:15 am

Well you knew FL saw this coming. They are ready for NW. It does get very old by NW. Knock someone out of their market, then once the other carrier is gone they also cut the service. Has NW posted a timetable on the flight yet? Will it also be late night with a red-eye return to IND?

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
nkops
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:16 am

I just hope they stick with it, and don't try to drive FL out, then cancel the route. Good luck to both FL and NW
:evil:
 
Indy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:19 am

Flight 772 from LAX arrives in IND at 11:19pm.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 621
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:37 am

Some healthy competition to the west coast? I see nothing wrong with that. Maybe it will keep prices down, which is something IND is becoming known for.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 5):
What are NW's current IND routes?

Do a little poking around on nwa.com and it will yield these results.

[Edited 2006-02-15 19:39:22]
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
Indy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:48 am

With the 304 additional daily departing seats being added to the schedule this summer (not including the return of SEA) won't this bring NW's total daily departing seats out of IND to nearly its higest ever? The additional seats (2 x 319's and 1 crj upgrade to DC9) are about the same as 7 of the 44 seat CRJs that NW used to run out of IND to STL, DFW and AUS. Plus one of the DCA flights had been upgraded to mainline in the past year as well as 2 other LGA flights to mainline that were originally CRJs as well.

BTW what are the chances of AUS coming back and perhaps DEN or PHX?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 19):
BTW what are the chances of AUS coming back and perhaps DEN or PHX?

I am somewhat doubtful of PHX and DEN. NW would be competing with Southwest and US Airways/America West to PHX and United and Frontier to DEN. Those other airlines all have connections beyond PHX or DEN and NW would not. In order to get market share on those routes, NW would have to have some very low prices and compete against multiple LCCs head to head.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 19):
BTW what are the chances of AUS coming back and perhaps DEN or PHX?

If FL decides to start it, I'd say you have a good chance of seeing the route.
 
iowaman
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 4):
Regardless of your recent negativity towards NW, healthy competition is perfectly legal in this competitive environment.

Personally, I do not see them sticking around this route very long.

NW is only doing this because FL is, not to help the competitive enviroment. They obviously don't give a damn if they loose money by running half ass empty planes with poor yields to compete with G4 on FSD and FAR-LAS, or by running FNT-RSW, TPA, MCO. Do you really think NW is doing that to make money? I don't think so. How about DL starting ATL-MLI, BMI and MCO-MLI, BMI after FL does, and cancel CVG-MLI and BMI? Jee, I don't see CID getting CID-ATL, a larger market with no competition compared to Bloomington, IL. And as far as making money out of MLI and BMI as far as DL, the CVG yields are much better, but no, they have to try to run FL out, and push FL out, then jack up fares and whine that no one is flying them anymore, and leave. The real looser in this situation is the airport and the passengers. I'm so tired of this, and NW is not doing this because they see an oppurtunity here, or they would of already had this last year. I personally hope FL kicks a$$ on this route and NW liquidates soon and so does DL, It would be a better world without them.
 
kcrwflyer
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 22):
NW is only doing this because FL is, not to help the competitive enviroment. They obviously don't give a damn if they loose money by running half ass empty planes with poor yields to compete with G4 on FSD and FAR-LAS, or by running FNT-RSW, TPA, MCO. Do you really think NW is doing that to make money? I don't think so. How about DL starting ATL-MLI, BMI and MCO-MLI, BMI after FL does, and cancel CVG-MLI and BMI? Jee, I don't see CID getting CID-ATL, a larger market with no competition compared to Bloomington, IL. And as far as making money out of MLI and BMI as far as DL, the CVG yields are much better, but no, they have to try to run FL out, and push FL out, then jack up fares and whine that no one is flying them anymore, and leave. The real looser in this situation is the airport and the passengers. I'm so tired of this, and NW is not doing this because they see an oppurtunity here, or they would of already had this last year. I personally hope FL kicks a$$ on this route and NW liquidates soon and so does DL, It would be a better world without them.

Thats a bit harsh....

We all know that NW doesnt care about going competeing on routes that other carriers start at strong NW cities....proposterious.

All NW is all about making money, pleasing passengers, flying profitable routes, and having great fleet utilization.

Good day to you all.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 23):
All NW is all about making money, pleasing passengers, flying profitable routes, and having great fleet utilization.

Sarcasim or serious?

I see sarcasim in it. They don't make money. They are doing a poor job of pleasing customers in my opinion by gutting service, and they have very questionable routes. I'm undecided on fleet utilization. Maybe its what NW wants but I don't see them actually doing it.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
burnsie28
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 22):
They obviously don't give a damn if they loose money by running half ass empty planes with poor yields to compete with G4 on FSD and FAR-LAS, or by running FNT-RSW, TPA, MCO. Do you really think NW is doing that to make money? I don't think so.

I know that full flights dont equal yeild, but looking at most of the flights in AIMS, those flights are genrally quite full especially to Cedar Rapids to Las Vegas. Im booked LAS-FAR 3 months out its over 50% sold, that pretty good for this far out.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 22):
NW is only doing this because FL is, not to help the competitive enviroment.

Seeing how when NW announced Indy, they mentioned future cities to employees, SFO was one of them, they may have just accelerated it.
 
stirling
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:59 am

I see that Spirit is adding DTW-SFO....any competitive response yet from NW?
(insert sarcasm)
Something along the lines of new hourly service?
Delete this User
 
iowaman
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 25):
those flights are genrally quite full especially to Cedar Rapids to Las Vegas.

On NW? NW doesn't even operate CID-LAS n/s.

My point was, you and I know NW wouldn't even consider operating FAR-LAS in bankruptcy, unless someone else did.
 
notdownnlocked
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 27):
On NW? NW doesn't even operate CID-LAS n/s.

My point was, you and I know NW wouldn't even consider operating FAR-LAS in bankruptcy, unless someone else did.

No, NW would never consider CID-LAS on their own accord and they should be lawfully be prohibited to start a route such as this...How dare they? If an LCC comes in and starts a new unserved route, there has to be a no compete clause that states any time a legacy airline starts a route in direct competition with a LCC the management should should be immediately subjected to the death penalty. Just as well anytime a new LCC joins a route flown by a legacy the legacy should immediately cease and desist from performing flights on said routes and therefore turn over all monies made.
 
stlgph
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:35 pm

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 9):
It was a strong candidate during the first round of IND expansion, not a knee-jerk reaction to FL's entry. Personally, I don't see this sticking around, nor having the success that NW has had with IND-SEA.

of course it wasn't.....except for the part where it was.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 27):
On NW? NW doesn't even operate CID-LAS n/s

Whoops meant Des Moines

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 27):

My point was, you and I know NW wouldn't even consider operating FAR-LAS in bankruptcy

Interesting, because that route was outlined a couple years ago in the "heartland strategy"
 
iowaman
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 30):
Whoops meant Des Moines

Okay, I'll agree with you there, DSM-LAS is doing quite well, but also has much more O&D.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 30):
Interesting, because that route was outlined a couple years ago in the "heartland strategy"

Nothing personal, I just have a hard time believing that.
 
nkops
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 26):
I see that Spirit is adding DTW-SFO....any competitive response yet from NW?

That's funny!!! NW seems more concerned about FL then with us.... which is fine with me. We seem to co-exist in DTW ok right now
:evil:
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):

I've also been called AirTrash

That's a shame coming from anyone with affiliation to NW. Look at their fleet, their faded/peeling paint jobs, their horrendous interiors, etc.

Quoting Indy (Reply 11):
I was told months ago that NW wanted to establish long haul (3+ hours) service out of IND.

They damn near have it already to the east coast, PHL-IND on the CRJ, with a long enough take off line at PHL, is well over 2.5 hours. LGA-IND could easily hit 3 hours block time.  Smile

Quoting Nkops (Reply 32):

That's funny!!! NW seems more concerned about FL then with us.... which is fine with me. We seem to co-exist in DTW ok right now

Yeah... just wait. Those old DC-10s will be running DTW-SFO to compete with you guys now, lol.
 
fedexexpress
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:35 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:52 pm

Its about time to see a carrier going from SFO to IND. Since ATA pulled out service to SFO has lacked. TZ flew a 757 into there. So with Airtran and Northwest on that route this should be okay. Any more than that though it will be too much.
"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
 
Indy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:56 am

Well look who lives. Where have you been hiding the past several months?

2x daily might be a little much for SFO.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
md90fan
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:07 am

Can we expect some more destinations out of IND from NW? Will DFW or IAH come back? Maybe ATL and PHX?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
B742
Posts: 3562
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:13 am

Here's the details of the IND-SFO-IND flight  Smile

Indianapolis - San Francisco
NW522
Depart: 08:00
Arrive: 09:35 (Terminal 1)
Aircraft: Airbus A319
Flight Time: 4h 35m
Days: Daily

San Francisco - Indianapolis
NW523
Depart: 11:50 (Terminal 1)
Arrive: 19:00
Aircraft: Airbus A319
Flight Time: 4h 10m
Days: Daily

The route will partner AirTran which departs SFO for IND also at 11:50  Smile


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Whitebird



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Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 37):
The route will partner AirTran which departs SFO for IND also at 11:50

I want a job as route planner for NW. All you have to do is wait for Airtran or Allegiant to announce a route, and then copy it, changing only the flight numbers and plane types.
 
Indy
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 36):
Can we expect some more destinations out of IND from NW? Will DFW or IAH come back? Maybe ATL and PHX?

DFW is unlikely. From what I've seen posted it wasn't doing well at all. They didn't serve IAH. They served AUS which is probably the only Texas route that might come back. With US and WN serving PHX its likely they will pick it up. ATL is even less likely.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 38):
I want a job as route planner for NW. All you have to do is wait for Airtran or Allegiant to announce a route, and then copy it, changing only the flight numbers and plane types.

It sure looks that way from time to time. Just the other day NW was going to add flights to LAX and SFO because they heard someone else had just announced the service. They then realized it was their own press release they were reading.  Smile

j/k
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
md90fan
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 39):
DFW is unlikely. From what I've seen posted it wasn't doing well at all. They didn't serve IAH. They served AUS which is probably the only Texas route that might come back. With US and WN serving PHX its likely they will pick it up. ATL is even less likely.

That;s what I had thought. Why did AUS do well enough that It might come back? Any other markets maybe?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
as there is a chance if FL goes, then NW will go too as it prefers to connect people via hubs.

Not "a chance" but a certainty.

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 8):
Thats ok. They will lose money and then get it from there employees.

Equally if not even more certain.
 
Indy
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:34 am

The one change I think will come up is SEA going all year just to keep FL out. I think having a monopoly on the route with a 1x A319 would make it a keeper. I don't know what they would add that would be profitable. Only thing I could see them doing in 2006 is perhaps frequency changes and equipment changes on some routes. Maybe a few upgrades to mainline.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
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RE: NW Announces IND-SFO

Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 41):
Not "a chance" but a certainty.

The fact that NW offers alot of nonstop service from IND shows that it isn't entirely accurate. Unless you call IND a mini-hub because of the connecting service that NW offers here which would make the statement true. Unless of course I read your post wrong in which case I have no idea Big grin
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air