FCKC
Topic Author
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Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:42 am

What was written in the last issue of Aviation Letter

"Mexicana has been licensed to begin scheduled service to China , and will acquire two A340s or Boeing 777s to operate the service."

No mention when service will start , neither city to be served (Beijing or Shangai).Also no words about their possible A330 acquisition.

Any news from Mexico ?
 
cuprita
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:53 am

A340 of course.......All airplanes of them is Airbus , its logical..but the better plane is the B777

[Edited 2006-02-15 16:54:00]
PANASONIC DMZ-FZ5
 
navega
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:17 am

Mexicana is quite carefull with aircraft orderes and although they operate a majority of Airbus aircraft I am certain that they will carefully evaluate Boeing also.

They have announced that they will be in the Orient by 2007 so it is official.

I believe it will be more than one city from what I last read.

Shanghai, Peking and even Hong Kong have been mentioned as future routes.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Cuprita (Reply 1):
A340 of course.......All airplanes of them is Airbus , its logical..but the better plane is the B777

Cuprita -
which ham is better -
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5097/serrano3ej.jpg

Serrano

-or



Pata Negra ????

I suggest to replace the A versus B stuff into Serrano versus Pata Negra stuff-
It tastes much better !
But I agree that chances are big, our mexican amigos might chose Airbus -even if some consider the A340 a dying species...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:21 am

777-200ER - blatently. Would love them to get a mixed A332 and A346 fleet but cant see it personally.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
gigneil
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
777-200ER - blatently.

The 777-200ER is insufficient for China routes from MEX. They will get either the A340-500 or the 777-200LR.

N
 
rojo
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting NAVEGA (Reply 2):
They have announced that they will be in the Orient by 2007 so it is official.

From what I have heard, the venture is still not official since the risks are quite high. The new owners started to realize that a bad start in a route like this could cost the airline too much money... lets wait and see!
 
anthsaun
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:13 am

B777-200LR will do the job and will keep MX moto.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 6):
From what I have heard, the venture is still not official since the risks are quite high. The new owners started to realize that a bad start in a route like this could cost the airline too much money... lets wait and see

Mx is evaluating the possibility, indeed is a risky venture but it can work.

About the aircraft, the decision is mainly for the Airbus aircraft, still waiting for the decision for the A330 that is delayed since last year, and still have to wait for the other aircraft, also with an all airbus family the costs are lower, starting from training (crews) as part of the CCQ, MX pilots can jump from the A320 family to the A330/A340 takes only 1 week betwen theory and practice, for the 777 will be a total investment needed, and will take a lot more time (and money).

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
rootsair
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:32 am

what do Hispanophonic airlines have with the A340...seriously...its a shame



A340

Iberia
LAN
Air Madrid
Aerolineas Argentinas
Air Europa
soon Mexicana

777:

none I can think of !!


how sad and depressive... !
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:39 am

MX B763 lease will expire this next December 2006. Last thing I know is that they will introduce 2 second hand A332s and go for 2 new A340s or B777s for it's Shangai new service which is due to start by April, 2007.

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
anthsaun
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:50 am

Do you guys know how far, in terms of new businesses and markets, MX could get if instead of using a B777 or a A340 a B747 joins the fleet for Asia.

Think of if, there is a lot of cargo that MX could move from and to Asia.

There are days when MX sells up to 60 seats to Japan through NH.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
KLM685
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 9):
777:

none I can think of !!

Aeromexico my friend  Wink
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
aa1818
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:38 am

Will these A330's be factory new, long lease, permanent or just as a cheap stop-gate measure. Despite their Airbus short-haul fleet, I don't see this one in the bag for Airbus. I see this as 50-50 weighing the merits of both sets of a/c.

Also why can't MX use 772ER's to China.....Aren't AA are running them from DFW to China/ India???? Finally wouldn't something like the 787 (I know timing is important) be a better investment as it's conservative in size, has excellent range and payload??? Just a thought!!

On the side- that's what my ideal airline would fly- Airbus Short-haulers and Boeing Long-haulers!!!!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
N1120A
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5):
The 777-200ER is insufficient for China routes from MEX. They will get either the A340-500 or the 777-200LR.

I would guess that the A345s AC is dumping will be likely candidates.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 9):
777:

none I can think of !!

Well, they are not Hispanophonic but Varig is Latin American. Aeromexico too, as mentioned above
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Cruiser
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:53 am

Two airplanes....I happen to know a national airline that will have 2 A345's for sale in the middle to end of next year. Who said they were going to buy new?

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
ucunnn
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:19 am

Weird, i just found an article in EL UNIVERSAL newspaper (Mexico CIty) an article about the same info that Mexico will have non-stop flight to China at the most the end of this year. The national touristic board informed that They will open an office in China by may to make the contacts..but the info doesnt make sure if its Mexicana or any Chinese airline who is going to fly.. Because the info says they dpnt know what city in Mexico will touch land and what chinese airline will do it.. However is confuse since it says too that Mexicana is working with them about doing it....weird.


http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/330983.html
 
AM001
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 16):
Weird, i just found an article in EL UNIVERSAL newspaper (Mexico CIty) an article about the same info that Mexico will have non-stop flight to China at the most the end of this year. (...) but the info doesnt make sure if its Mexicana or any Chinese airline who is going to fly..

Right... it'll be a Chinese carrier. I just found this at Reforma:

"Emilio Romano, director general de Mexicana de Aviación, reconoció que será hasta el 2008 cuando esta empresa ofrezca el vuelo DF-Tijuana-China con un avión propio.

"Mientras eso ocurre, Mexicana ofrece vuelos a China mediante alianzas con otra aerolínea y conexiones en Los Ángeles o Vancouver.

" 'Los planes de China se han retrasado, pero esperamos meter un avión propio hasta el 2008 antes de las Olimpiadas' , previó Romano".

Roughly translated as:

Emilio Romano, MX's CEO, recognized that it won't be until 2008 when a MEX-TIJ-China(?) flight will be offered in MX's own metal.

Meanwhile, MX will offer flights to China in alliance with other carriers, and via Los Angeles or Vancouver.

"Plans for China have been postponed, but we hope to have a plane of our own until 2008, before the Olympic games" Romano stated.

It also states that AM's flight to Japan will not be until after the sale of the company, but no further info.

Anyway, it is an article from reforma, which usually gets this kind of info wrong... so take it all with a grain of salt (except, of course, Romano's quote)....

Rgds...

AM001
"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:22 pm

Quoting Am001 (Reply 17):
Anyway, it is an article from reforma, which usually gets this kind of info wrong... so take it all with a grain of salt (except, of course, Romano's quote)....

Can be, but today there was a Chinese delegation for the "Forum" here in MTY, they flew with MX, and it seems some interesting plans here.....

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 16):
Weird, i just found an article in EL UNIVERSAL newspaper (Mexico CIty) an article about the same info that Mexico will have non-stop flight to China at the most the end of this year.

Why not.....

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 13):
Also why can't MX use 772ER's to China.....Aren't AA are running them from DFW to China/ India????

The problem here will be take the plane out of MEX, that´s why, also like i said before, it´s a BIG investment to be done to introduce a new airplane, and because of the airbus commonality, the A340 it´s way cheapper than the 777, also have to check the lease contracts.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
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LTU932
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 13):
Will these A330's be factory new, long lease, permanent or just as a cheap stop-gate measure. Despite their Airbus short-haul fleet, I don't see this one in the bag for Airbus. I see this as 50-50 weighing the merits of both sets of a/c.

Maybe those two A332s they could acquire are going to be the remaining two A332s LH is currently flying. I believe LH will have fully phased out the A330-200 this year once at least most of their A333 fleet is online. Though if there were factory new A330s on the way, chances are they might miss the delivery slots they need.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 13):
Also why can't MX use 772ER's to China.....Aren't AA are running them from DFW to China/ India????

Unlike DFW, those 772ERs or A340s would be weight restricted if they would fly nonstop out of MEX due to the high altitude. However, they could put a tech stop in TIJ and then they could make the distance.

Here are some examples from the Great Circle Mapper as far as ranges go:

MEX-TIJ: 1242 nm
TIJ-PEK: 5542 nm
TIJ-PVG: 5745 nm

However the length of the runway makes me curious as to whether that would influence the possibility of nonstop flights to China without weight restrictions. The runway in TIJ is 9,711 ft long, and maybe they could need an at least 11,000 ft runway to enable them further flexibility.
 
Leskova
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:34 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 9):
what do Hispanophonic airlines have with the A340...seriously...its a shame

And where, precisely, is the shame in that?

All nonsense aside, it's a good plane, one that is very well suited to operating the longhauls it's being placed on by most of these airlines; and despite what some constantly try to establish, yes, it is in fact a plane with good operating costs, one that can be operated profitably.

Yes, there is something more economical available, but so what? It's not like all B767-operators dropped their planes for A330-200s the moment they became available...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
andessmf
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):

I'm sorry Leskova, but it is exactly comments like that that give you your 70 rating...

 Smile

Somebody had to tell you
 
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LTU932
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):
All nonsense aside, it's a good plane, one that is very well suited to operating the longhauls it's being placed on by most of these airlines; and despite what some constantly try to establish, yes, it is in fact a plane with good operating costs, one that can be operated profitably.

Yes, there is something more economical available, but so what? It's not like all B767-operators dropped their planes for A330-200s the moment they became available...

Well said, Frank! The bottom line is that airlines will eventually choose what suits them best.
 
travellin'man
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:53 pm

Crystal ball (ie wild a$$ guess) says Boeing will sell them the planes.....
some SQ A345s as part of a Boeing buyback for SQ buying 777LRs!
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):
Yes, there is something more economical available, but so what? It's not like all B767-operators dropped their planes for A330-200s the moment they became available...

May I add that sometimes, the plane is economical to operate, the problem is to get it.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
Maybe those two A332s they could acquire are going to be the remaining two A332s LH is currently flying. I believe LH will have fully phased out the A330-200 this year once at least most of their A333 fleet is online. Though if there were factory new A330s on the way, chances are they might miss the delivery slots they need.

Sometimes chances are unexpected, like what happened with UDU and UDT (ex-IB A320´s operated by MX), they arrived to MEX on IB c/s, they where expected to be delivered to IB, but MX got them, something similar can happen with other aircraft; i´m not saying it will, i´m saying it can.

Saludos.
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
aa1818
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:46 am

Travellin'man....I see your point, but i can't really see Boeing giving MX to Airbus. If they were already an Airbus long-hauler customer then I could see it, but since it's up for grabs, they may try and hook 'em with some 777's. I'm sure Boeing could create a sweet deal for MX for 5 (plus 5) 772LR's. Would be nice if MX and AM could have some common 777 maintenance base as well??!! Anyways, depite my love of the 777, I'm rooting for MX to join OneWorld soon!!!!!!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
EddieDude
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 25):
I'm sure Boeing could create a sweet deal for MX for 5 (plus 5) 772LR's. Would be nice if MX and AM could have some common 777 maintenance base as well??!! Anyways, depite my love of the 777, I'm rooting for MX to join OneWorld soon!!!!!!

Well, I certainly agree with you that Boeing will work hard to get MX (after all, Airbus did try at some point to sell the A340 to AM). And MX will obviously evaluate carefully all possibilities, it is just that Airbus seems to have the upper hand here. I hope MX gets the best deal possible... it will be interesting to see if this turns out to be a reprise of the IB-saga.

Still no indication of oneworld membership. For one, I would like to see MX improve its phone service in Mexico and start codesharing with BA. That would be nice!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:10 am

The 777LR has a nice sized cargo advantage over A345. I'm not sure if that is a big issue of MX. Also, on the trip to china, the 777LR would burn an average of 6,000 gallons less fuel than an A345. 777 is also a more comfortable aircraft, every study i've ever seen on passenger preference shows this. The studies where they take people into the two aircraft side by side are even more tipped in favor of the 777. The larger fuselage diameter, i guess.

MX has a long history of airbus aircraft, but that said, there are a number of airlines flying airbus narrowbodies and boeing widebodies (UA, for instance). Some would argue Airbus makes a better narrowbody, Boeing makes a better widebody. I'd be inclined to agree.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
rootsair
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 12):
Aeromexico my friend

since when do trhey have them? Weren't they still on oprder?

Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):
And where, precisely, is the shame in that?

Having the A340 instead of the 777 is by definition a shame!
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
JoeCattoli
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 27):
777 is also a more comfortable aircraft, every study i've ever seen on passenger preference shows this

Source??? I don't think so... A lot of people doesn't.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 28):
Having the A340 instead of the 777 is by definition a shame!

Nice and fair...  Yeah sure
Ciao
Joe
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:29 am

Nothing yet has been written in stone! MX perhaps might give us a surprise and get a few B777/787s for B767/757 substitution and expansion!! But I think this is going to another similar IB case and at the end go for A332/345s.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 25):
I'm sure Boeing could create a sweet deal for MX for 5 (plus 5) 772LR's. Would be nice if MX and AM could have some common 777 maintenance base as well??!!

Before with CINTRA, still possible, now, IMPOSSIBLE! AM is getting 2 B777s and has intentions to get 5 more for a total of 7. MX at the most could get for the moment 3 if they want EZE to go 7X and new Asia operations.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 25):
Anyways, despite my love of the 777, I'm rooting for MX to join OneWorld soon!!!!!!

It might happen! MX relation with AC and LH codeshares might end this year, Varig is next... AC's new flights and LH's flights reductions to MEX are a consequence of increase in traffic to Germany/Europe via AA-MIA/JFK.

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Leskova
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 28):
Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):
And where, precisely, is the shame in that?

Having the A340 instead of the 777 is by definition a shame!

Words fail me at such unbelievable insight!

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 27):
MX has a long history of airbus aircraft...

Depends on what your definition of "long" is.

For some time, the 727 was the mainstay of their fleet. In addition, they've had DC-10s, 757s (still around), F-100s, and a lone DC-8-71 freighter. The first A320s appeared in the early 1990s.
 
anthsaun
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:37 am

As far as I recall there was an announcement made in this forum a few months ago about MX not getting the A330's but still going on with the A340's.

By the way... I feel more comfortable inside a B777 than in an A340.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:00 am

Given that the "hot and high" conditions of MEX have led them to purchase JATO-equipped 727s and DC-10-15s in the past, MX will be certain to give a lot of weight to performance capabilities in making a final decision.

BTW, I forgot to mention their lone 767-300 in my prior post. This is a pretty good indicator that they're not adverse to operating a divergent sub-fleet.

[Edited 2006-02-16 22:08:52]
 
EddieDude
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 30):
MX relation with AC and LH codeshares might end this year, Varig is next... AC's new flights and LH's flights reductions to MEX are a consequence of increase in traffic to Germany/Europe via AA-MIA/JFK.

I knew about AC but had no clue that the codeshare relatonship with LH was due to be terminated too. That is too bad! As for RG, I am not surprised. RG must be quite pissed to see MX codesharing with AM on the MEX-GRU-MEX flights. In addition I can totally see MX starting its own flights to GRU in the medium term and codesharing with JJ further down the road.

I can't believe that AA has stolen so much Mexico-Europe traffic. It is hard for me to understand given the U.S. visa requirements and the inferior in-flight service quality of AA versus most European carriers.

Quoting MakeMinesLAX (Reply 34):
MX will be certain to give a lot of weight to performance capabilities in making a final decision

Do A340's have a slight advantage over 777's when departing from hot and high airports?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:11 am

Eddiedude,

It's confirmed!! Last day of MX/AC codeshare will be next March 31st, 2006.

LH's/RG codeshare will end by the end of the year.... Perhaps N405MX has more info on the exact dates.

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 35):
Do A340's have a slight advantage over 777's when departing from hot and high airports?

I'd like to know that too. However, there is an advantage that the A340s have (though nowadays it might just be a minor advantage): they are all ETOPS free, so this would let MX do some more comfortable routings on their flights which might not have been possible for the 777.
 
orbis
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:48 pm

My guess is that no one at Mexicana is seriously planning ahead and that the new owners are more worried right now about the short term problems than for the long awaited long term strategic planning (long haul flights included).

Therefore I can not understand why before venturing in such a risky business like the flights to Asia, Mexicana do not take advantage of the high demand on MEX-Europe Flights and start with a much more secure enterprise.

As for the topic. I would really like to see either type with MX livery. I hope they give us a nice surprise.
we should live our lives as if we were really alive!!! H.M.
 
Leskova
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 35):
Do A340's have a slight advantage over 777's when departing from hot and high airports?

The A340 has an advantage in regards to the "one engine out on takeoff" regulations (or was it "during climb"?): the A340 still has 75% of it's thrust available, while the B777 only has 50%.

And there's no use in arguing that the B777 is more powerful alltogether, or that the A340 would be in just as bad a situation if two engines on it were to fail, because (and correct me if I'm wrong here) the regulation looks at one engine out, not two, not three... not to mention, of course, that two out during takeoff would be somewhat devastating on a B777... (I'm currently knocking on wood that we'll never see a two-out on either plane).

It has been a factor in previous aircraft selections...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:32 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 36):
It's confirmed!! Last day of MX/AC codeshare will be next March 31st, 2006.

Indeed, MX now has forbidden to check-in UMNR´s and some conections or codeshares with AC.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 36):
LH's/RG codeshare will end by the end of the year....

Heard something abouth RG, not so shure about LH; I´ll try to find out.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 37):
However, there is an advantage that the A340s have (though nowadays it might just be a minor advantage): they are all ETOPS free, so this would let MX do some more comfortable routings on their flights which might not have been possible for the 777.

Sometimes the minor advantages are big differences.

Quoting Orbis (Reply 38):
My guess is that no one at Mexicana is seriously planning ahead and that the new owners are more worried right now about the short term problems than for the long awaited long term strategic planning (long haul flights included).

Don´t run before you can´t walk.....  blink 

Quoting Orbis (Reply 38):
I hope they give us a nice surprise.

Together with the Birthday Cake (hopefully).

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
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LTU932
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:09 pm

Quoting N405MX (Reply 40):
Sometimes the minor advantages are big differences.

Indeed. Considering that there will be a most of those flights will see only water, this will be a very critical issue to be considered when they take the decision.

One thing we can all agree on is that neither the 777 or the A340 can escape the fact that they will not be able to operate with a decent payload out of MEX due to the high altitude.
 
anthsaun
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:22 am

From my point of view, MX's new management should work on two fronts at this time.

1.- Recover all the domestic market and routes given to AM in order to compete with the new guys on the Mexican sky.
2.- Work out the overseas markets because nobody else is doing it.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 42):
1.- Recover all the domestic market and routes given to AM in order to compete with the new guys on the Mexican sky.

First step is going, MX is now trying to recover some routes, and starting to open new ones (like MEX-REX).
Second step, will begin later this year, as this is an election year, there are 2 important dates, maybe the most will be july 2 or 3 (as we know the winner), and how the economics will go (specially the dollar, how will be against the peso) so that´s why MX is really taking caution.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
jopavon
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 27):
MX has a long history of airbus aircraft, but that said, there are a number of airlines flying airbus narrowbodies and boeing widebodies (UA, for instance).

And a longer with Boeing. Remember MX had one of the largest 727 fleets outside the US. Airbus got MX in the early 90s.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 25):
Would be nice if MX and AM could have some common 777 maintenance base as well??!!

I don't see them work together

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 30):
LH's flights reductions to MEX are a consequence of increase in traffic to Germany/Europe via AA-MIA/JFK

And don't forget their codeshare with IB which also routes traffic to Europe via MAD.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 35):
I can't believe that AA has stolen so much Mexico-Europe traffic. It is hard for me to understand given the U.S. visa requirements and the inferior in-flight service quality of AA versus most European carriers.

Again, IB I think is also doing a good part.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 36):
It's confirmed!! Last day of MX/AC codeshare will be next March 31st, 2006.

It was comming since AC has been announcing new flights: 2x on YYZ-MEx, YUL-MEx...so I guess more competition ahead.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 25):
I'm rooting for MX to join OneWorld soon!!!!!!

Although, I think BA can be a new partner for MX, I wonder if LH agreement sets a limit on MX codesharing with the big european carriers and MX hasn't been able to codeshare with BA until LH deal is over.

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 42):
1.- Recover all the domestic market and routes given to AM in order to compete with the new guys on the Mexican sky

Well, MX has to strike back. AM has started more frequencies and new flights to MX's traditional destinations like LAX and ORD in the US, YYZ in Canada and TAM, VER, MTT, CME, OAX in Mexico. Most flights will start April 1st. 2006.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 36):
LH's/RG codeshare will end by the end of the year.... Perhaps N405MX has more info on the exact dates

And how about AM's codeshare. Seems to me that it will be over soon. I'm booking a flight to MTY from MEx and AM's flights no longer appear in mexicana.com

[Edited 2006-02-17 18:05:34]

And my vote goes to GET a widebody soon!!! Whatever makes sense in the economic side and that can take MX to more destinations.

[Edited 2006-02-17 18:11:51]
 
N1120A
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
Unlike DFW, those 772ERs or A340s would be weight restricted if they would fly nonstop out of MEX due to the high altitude. However, they could put a tech stop in TIJ and then they could make the distance.

Except that tech stopping is not exactly what people want to do these days.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 35):
Do A340's have a slight advantage over 777's when departing from hot and high airports?

Not particularly, depends on the type. With -5C3 power, the A343 has about 32,000 pounds per side while with GE90-94 power, the 772ER has abaout 93,500 pounds per side. On engine out, the A343 would only have about 2,500 more pounds of thrust.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 37):
I'd like to know that too. However, there is an advantage that the A340s have (though nowadays it might just be a minor advantage): they are all ETOPS free, so this would let MX do some more comfortable routings on their flights which might not have been possible for the 777.

On the North Pacific, ETOPS 180 is all that is needed to have a perfectly comfortable routing

Quoting Leskova (Reply 39):
And there's no use in arguing that the B777 is more powerful alltogether, or that the A340 would be in just as bad a situation if two engines on it were to fail, because (and correct me if I'm wrong here) the regulation looks at one engine out, not two, not three... not to mention, of course, that two out during takeoff would be somewhat devastating on a B777... (I'm currently knocking on wood that we'll never see a two-out on either plane).

See above.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting Jopavon (Reply 44):
And how about AM's codeshare. Seems to me that it will be over soon. I'm booking a flight to MTY from MEx and AM's flights no longer appear in mexicana.com

That was an AM movement, MX can´t see any AM flights (only 5D´s and AF codeshares with AM); but AM is able to check on MX flights. And it´s for entire MX system, not only MX.com

Quoting Jopavon (Reply 44):

3 days ago was succesfully activated the I-ETKT (interline ETKT) with IB; more flights added in codeshare with IB and AA.
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LTU932
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:32 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
Except that tech stopping is not exactly what people want to do these days.

True, but inevitably if they were to operate out of MEX, they would only be able to fly nonstop from Asia to MEX, not the other way around, because of the high altitude. The same problem would apply for AM, if they were to launch service to NGO.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
On the North Pacific, ETOPS 180 is all that is needed to have a perfectly comfortable routing

Ah OK, thanks for the clarification.
 
Leskova
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
Not particularly, depends on the type. With -5C3 power, the A343 has about 32,000 pounds per side while with GE90-94 power, the 772ER has abaout 93,500 pounds per side. On engine out, the A343 would only have about 2,500 more pounds of thrust.

... and using the -5C4 (is that the one just used on the newer models? or when was it introduced) it has 34000 pounds... but not per side, but per engine - making it 64k with the-5C3 or 68k with the -5C4, giving the A340 8500 pounds more thrust...

... and if the B777s don't have GEs but PWs, their thrust goes down to 90k... giving the A340 between 6000 and 12000 pounds more thrust...

Nonetheless, the ability to consistantly climb at a specific angle in a "one out" situation (not sure which angle that was) has been quoted (not just here on a.net) as something that can, in hot and high takeoffs, limit the B777 more than it does the A340.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Mexicana : A340 Or 777?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:53 pm

I think MX will go with the 777 for one reason: the hot and high operating conditions at MEX (Mexico City). With the GE90-94B powered 777-200ER the plane could easily fly a full load out of MEX to TIJ, and the 772ER definitely has the range to fly TIJ-PEK or TIJ-PVG non-stop year-round.  Smile