cumulonimbus
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Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:12 am

Just was wondering about who you guys think is the Frank Lorenzo of Airlines today and why? If I had to pick somebody it would be Good Ol' Johnny O' of Mesa... That Guy seems to treat his employees like dirt, in my opinion runs a substanderd airline while pocketing all the money for himself and is just an all around weasel.

Mike
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:38 am

Ornstein certainly is a candidate, though personally I think the closest person to Lorenzo these days is Doug "The Chainsaw" Steenland at Northwest. Just ask pilots or mechanics at NW.
 
petmbro
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
Steenland at Northwest. Just ask pilots or mechanics at NW.

I second that.
What's ol' Frank been up to lately? I read in Time a couple months ago about Carl Icahn and how he's trying to make an impact over at Time Warner but I've never really heard much of Lorenzo after EA.
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
 
FlyHoss
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:04 am

Jonathon Ornstein was the first name that came to my mind.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
NWADC9
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:04 am

The fools at NWA, especially
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:52 am

Yeah I'd say Steenland is the closest, he's not even nearly as bad as Lorenzo. Last I heard, Lorenzo tried to start up a new airline in 1993, but the U.S. DOT would not permit him to. He therefore took a position with a Mexican based airline (don't recall which one).
JO is not a corporate raider. He seems like more talk than anything. For example, purchasing Atlantic Coast Airlines before the launch of Independence Air, or purchasing a part of Hawaiian Airlines in bankruptcy. JO isn't even close to Lorenzo. Plus, Lorenzo used junk bonds to finance all his acquisitions.

In 1982 he took Continental into bankruptcy, and striking workers were forced to return to their jobs, with no contract...which was the law at the time. In 1989 the Eastern pilots, flight attendants and IAM represented employees went on strike. Lorenzo's luck had run out by then. In 1984 bankruptcy law had changed, giving corporations less freedom than they enjoyed operating under chapter 11 (such as Continental in 1983). In 1990 the judge overseeing Eastern's bankruptcy case found him unfit to run an airline, and Lorenzo was forced to liquidate Eastern and his personal investments a year later. I think a better comparison to Lorenzo in todays world would be Kenneth Lay of Enron.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 5):

Your are correct on notasbad to Fearless Frank. Frank bleeded Eastern for the benefit of Texas Air, the company that OWNED Eastern and Continental Airlines.
Doug is trying to save NW at the benefit of raking lots of people over the coals. Many question the way Doug is trying to save the company. Frank was there to line his pockets(Texas Air) at the benefit of two airlines.
Both were/are relentless in their objectives...which were NOT the same.
safe

[Edited 2006-02-16 19:22:59]

[Edited 2006-02-16 19:23:41]

[Edited 2006-02-16 19:24:34]
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
AA717driver
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:33 am

Who is the Frank Lorenzo of today?

Wall Street.

The Harvard Business School, Wharton, et al, can be charged as accessories before the fact.TC
FL450, M.85
 
deltagator
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting AA717driver (Reply 7):
Who is the Frank Lorenzo of today?

Wall Street.

The Harvard Business School, Wharton, et al, can be charged as accessories before the fact.

I would have to agree with you somewhat here. It amazes me the standards that Wall Street holds companies to these days. Results must be immediate and not long term. If you miss their expectations by even a penny a share you get hammered. It is no wonder a company like Georgia-Pacific gave as one of their main reasons for being bought and take private was so they could invest in their infrastructure without being accountable to Wall Street who didn't see the big picture.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
slider
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:09 am

As long as Lorenzo and Icahn are alive, no one can be awarded the mantle of being the "Lorenzo of today."

I'll have this conversation once those two, gentlemen, are in the ground 6 feet under. Icahn moreso.
 
AirlineAV8tr
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 5):
Lorenzo. Plus, Lorenzo used junk bonds to finance all his acquisitions.

In 1982 he took Continental into bankruptcy, and striking workers were forced to return to their jobs, with no contract...which was the law at the time. In 1989 the Eastern pilots, flight attendants and IAM represented employees went on strike. Lorenzo's luck had run out by then. In 1984 bankruptcy law had changed, giving corporations less freedom than they enjoyed operating under chapter 11 (such as Continental in 1983). In 1990 the judge overseeing Eastern's bankruptcy case found him unfit to run an airline, and Lorenzo was forced to liquidate Eastern and his personal investments a year later. I think a better comparison to Lorenzo in today's world would be Kenneth Lay of Enron.

I'd have to agree with many above and say that NWA negociation tactics are reminiscent of Lorenzo. I have 3 uncles who went to NWA, and Delta, after they flew for Lorenzo- unfortunately they're in a similar situation now! Lorenzo was a ruthless negociater. He would always offer his best deal first (which was never good), and after the unions would turn that down, it just got worse! I was in a model shop one time when Mr. Lorenzo asked to have some models made for him. Before he finished his request, the owner said, "sorry Mr. Lorenzo I can't help you"- and hung up!
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
malaysia
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:21 am

As a little boy, I dreamed of being a Airline Corporate Raider and turn Singapore Airlines into the next Eastern  Smile and parachute with millions of SG Dollars! and restart the carrier as the first ever Equal-Opportunity Carrier in Asia and perhaps the World.

The idea of Corporate Raider in Commercial Aviation turns me on for some reason, even new laws today make it harder for Leveraged buy outs, hostile take-overs, and elimination of unions etc.

I admire Lorenzo's 72 hour suspension of Continental, where he turned it into a pretty much a carrier with lower labor costs in 72 hours.

Id say that Lorenzo saved Continental as a carrier, not Bethune.

Frank Lorenzo was a man who knew the way of Airline Imperialism.

Airlines are cold business, so Lorezno would be a bad cold man, but its the power that he had, which fascinates me, but I would always put my employees first and make it a great workplace.

I want to get close to making an airline so successful and integrated enough to be a nation within itself.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
ssides
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting AA717driver (Reply 7):
Who is the Frank Lorenzo of today?

Wall Street.

The Harvard Business School, Wharton, et al, can be charged as accessories before the fact.



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):
Results must be immediate and not long term. If you miss their expectations by even a penny a share you get hammered. It is no wonder a company like Georgia-Pacific gave as one of their main reasons for being bought and take private was so they could invest in their infrastructure without being accountable to Wall Street who didn't see the big picture.

Wall Street is simply looking out for shareholders' well-being -- they own the company, after all.

When it comes to long-term visions, no Wall Street pricing policy is theoretically designed to be myopic in its approach. That being said, stock prices are supposed to represent the current value of a company, particularly in terms of its earnings. If you think a company has a good long-term future, you invest in it with the expectation that there will be bumps along the way. If you are right, then the stock will appreciate, thus benefitting the forward-looking investor.

And, while a penny-a-share may not seem like much, it usually means upwards of $2 million in earnings for a big corporation such as an airline. Not do-or-die significant, but not chump-change either.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
tu154m
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:07 am

ALL ALL ALL of Delta's management team could work for and get promoted by Mr Lorenzo. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit to walk in and hear he has been hired as a "consultant". Oh yeah, he would probably announce that he "voluntarily" reduced his salary to $500,000, down from $750,000 which includes 6.6 million in preferred stock.
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
malaysia
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Tu154m (Reply 13):
he would probably announce that he "voluntarily" reduced his salary to $500,000, down from $750,000 which includes 6.6 million in preferred stock.

he once did that but reduced it to about 46,000 or something at Continental

I dont know any real Frank Lorenzo right now, but I shall prepare so I can be the Frank Lorenzo of the Future Better get my Accounting up to shape, my Auditing skills up to shape, my management skills up to shape.......... oh I didnt go to an Ivy League School??? oh I dont come from a rich family??? it must be so hard to get there without either those two requirements.

[Edited 2006-02-16 23:48:12]

[Edited 2006-02-16 23:48:26]
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
deltagator
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 12):
Wall Street is simply looking out for shareholders' well-being -- they own the company, after all.

Perhaps, but I tend to think they are more looking after their own pockets moreso than the lowly shareholder out there.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 12):
When it comes to long-term visions, no Wall Street pricing policy is theoretically designed to be myopic in its approach.

Hence the problem. I understand investing for the long term since I do it myself but to hammer a company for a penny miss off of the analyst's estimate is a bit much.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 12):
And, while a penny-a-share may not seem like much, it usually means upwards of $2 million in earnings for a big corporation such as an airline. Not do-or-die significant, but not chump-change either.

A million here, a million there and pretty soon we are talking about some real money.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 12):
That being said, stock prices are supposed to represent the current value of a company, particularly in terms of its earnings

Better sell anything you have in Google then.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
WesternA318
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):
It amazes me the standards that Wall Street holds companies to these days. Results must be immediate and not long term. If you miss their expectations by even a penny a share you get hammered. It is no wonder a company like Georgia-Pacific gave as one of their main reasons for being bought and take private was so they could invest in their infrastructure without being accountable to Wall Street who didn't see the big picture.

This is why I blast Analysts at every chance I can get (you should have seen me at the last Wings Club meeting) and just focus on the pulse of the company. Stockholders are great, we need their cash after all, but for hell's sake, let the damn airline be run by AIRLINE people!  stirthepot 
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
skibum9
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Tu154m (Reply 13):
ALL ALL ALL of Delta's management team could work for and get promoted by Mr Lorenzo. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit to walk in and hear he has been hired as a "consultant". Oh yeah, he would probably announce that he "voluntarily" reduced his salary to $500,000, down from $750,000 which includes 6.6 million in preferred stock.

Come on now...DL's current management is working with the mess that Mullin left them. With that in mind, I would nominate Leo Mullin.

Along a similar line, you could nomintate Carl Icahn and what he did to TWA.

[Edited 2006-02-17 05:22:24]
Tailwinds!!!
 
WesternA318
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:26 pm

Mr. Frye, Mr. Hughes, Mr. Feldman, Mr. Drinkwater, Mr. Smith, Mr. Six, Mr. Hanshue, Mr. Bethune;

WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS!!!

We need more people in the industry like these guys. Hell, Frye and Drinkwater were constantly blasting Wall Street. They fought HARD for their companies, there's no one around like that now, save MAYBE Mr. Grinstein at DL (I'm also thinking about what he did with Western).
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
atcrick
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Kerry "Alpine" Skeen needs to be on the list
natch!!
 
ssides
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 16):
Stockholders are great, we need their cash after all, but for hell's sake, let the damn airline be run by AIRLINE people!

If stockholders simply looked the other way and let airlines be run by A.nutters, you'd have 777s and 747s on every route and $25 first-class upgrades everywhere. It would be great for us aviation enthusiasts, but it wouldn't take long for bankruptcy to set in.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
N757ST
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:14 am

Absolutely no question, Johnny O
 
ouboy79
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:25 am

Need we forget the "beloved" Stephen Wolf? I think the hell he brought Flying Tigers, United, and US Airways should amount to something.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 4):
The fools at NWA, especially

That's an understatement.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 4):
Yeah I'd say Steenland is the closest, he's not even nearly as bad as Lorenzo.


I would say, this is the real the hand behind NWA, and up Doug Steenland's puppet-hole, Gary Wilson.

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
Doug is trying to save NW at the benefit of raking lots of people over the coals. Many question the way Doug is trying to save the company.

Well, he's trying to save NWA in ways that will save his reputation, as well as his golden parachute. And he's selling out his employees in the process, for cheaper ones from China.
Made from jets!
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Who Is The "Frank Lorenzo" Of Today?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:11 pm

I join Skibum in nominating this asshole with a tooth vaneer almost as thick as the one on his management skills...



Bio: One of the new millenium's professional airline crashing executives, Mr. Mullin hailed from absolutely no solid previous airline experience, to CEO of the nation's major carriers. Mullin oversaw the addition of $50 million in bonuses for executive 'retention', $13 million of which he saw for himself, in addition to generous stock options. Don't worry, the man still lead by example by cutting his own $750,000 salary by 10% to carry his load of the sacrifices. In the mean time, he ensured the ruthless furlough of over a thousand pilots, and countless non-union employees. His actions earned him commendation, however, in front of Congress, as he testified for 9/11 committies whilst lobbying to get himself a potential future job with the DOT. Mr Mullin's long distinguished six year career lead to "retirement", and a new position mishandling Johnson & Johnson. His hobbies include employee abuse, money extortion, and frequent job shifting. His longtime idol and mentor was Joseph Stalin.

Favorite self quote, spoken after 9/11: “We're into uncharted waters here. I don't think any of us can really predict exactly when we'll come back. We are expected a lengthy amount of time before we get back to levels that would have prevailed otherwise.”

Sure is taking a lengthy amount of time huh?

DeltaGuy

[Edited 2006-02-18 07:27:45]
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan