iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:01 pm

Obviously all the flights are heading westbound. The jet stream is much stronger than normal today and yesterday. This can't help B6's fuel costs or on time percentage any.

Diversions so far tonight:
Flight# City Pair Diverted(ing) to
351 JFK-BUR LAS
93 JFK-OAK LAS (SLC last night)
205 JFK-LGB LAS
169 JFK-OAK LAS (DEN last night)
355 JFK-BUR LAS (PHX last night, DTW on the 13th)
489 JFK-LGB LAS (LAS last night, OKC on the 14th)
306 IAD-LGB LAS
359 JFK-BUR LAS
95 JFK-OAK LAS (LAS last night, DEN on the 14th)
181 JFK-SAN PHX
221 JFK-LGB PHX (LAS last night)
219 JFK-LGB PHX (LAS last night)
481 BOS-LGB SLC (DEN last night)
475 BOS-OAK SLC (DEN last night, DEN on the 14th)
101 JFK-OAK SLC (DEN last night)
209 JFK-LGB SLC (PHX yesterday)
471 BOS-SJC SLC (DEN yesterday, DEN on the 14th)
215 JFK-LGB SLC (PHX yesterday)
357 JFK-BUR SLC (DEN yesterday)
91 JFK-OAK SLC (PHX yesterday, DEN on the 14th)
173 JFK-SJC SLC (DEN yesterday)
107 JFK-OAK SLC (LAS yesterday, DEN on the 14th)
477 BOS-OAK SLC (OKC yesterday, DEN on the 14th)
185 JFK-SAN SLC (PHX yesterday)
171 JFK-SMF SLC (SLC on the 14th)
217 JFK-LGB DEN (LAS yesterday)
321 IAD-OAK DEN
89 JFK-ONT DEN (LAS yesterday)
483 JFK-LAS DEN

That's all I can find for now..

[Edited 2006-02-17 05:02:59]
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:06 pm

Are other carriers making similar stops?

N
 
mel
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 5:13 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:09 pm

Air Canada Calgary-Cancun A321 today - stop in Winnipeg
Air Canada New York JFK-Vancouver A319 today - stop in Winnipeg
NO URLS in signature
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Thread starter):
Obviously all the flights are heading westbound. The jet stream is much stronger than normal today and yesterday. This can't help B6's fuel costs or on time percentage any

Look how much they are saving flying eastbound  Wink

Is this just happening to B6, or are AA, UA, WN, or anybody else having to make fuel stops ?
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 3):
Look how much they are saving flying eastbound

True, but considering they have to pay landing fees etc. westbound that they wouldn't have to otherwise as well as the additional fuel to climb back up again it's costing them a lot more than they are saving.

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 3):
Is this just happening to B6, or are AA, UA, WN, or anybody else having to make fuel stops ?

WN isn't that I know of, there longest route, PHL-OAK, made it n/s just fine. The 73G's have no problem making these, just are carrying a little extra fuel. AA doesn't have the A320, so they shouldn't have a problem. I don't see any UA flights diverting.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:28 pm

Yes, the jetstream dropped down here to LA, bringing really cold air and some wind and there will be rain.

Only 3 days ago it was 90F outside my door. Today the high was about 60F, and now it's in the high 40s.

When the jetstream dips like this, some airlines fly "around" it, but I don't think the A320 series has the legs to fly around or to fly through it, so they have to take on more fuel. Just a rare situation this time of year though, really.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:32 pm

We had two diversions to AUS for fuel, en route to MEM.

Our 1030p flight also is delayed 45 min due to weather at MEM.

Regards.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/1

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:42 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
When the jetstream dips like this, some airlines fly "around" it, but I don't think the A320 series has the legs to fly around or to fly through it, so they have to take on more fuel. Just a rare situation this time of year though, really.

Yeah, one drawback to the A32x family in the U.S. is that the range envelope only leaves room for about 30-60 minutes extra burn on most Westbound transcons. IIRC the A319 does slightly better b/c it has same engines, weighs less and has the same fuel capacity as the 320.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Yes, the jetstream dropped down here to LA, bringing really cold air and some wind and there will be rain.

Watch out, rain in LAX is like snow an Ice storm in ATL. Locals don't know how to drive in either!  Smile
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
as739x
Posts: 4996
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:43 pm

Alaska #5 made it DCA-LAX, but is took a looooooong time.


737-700
Flight time scheduled: 5 hrs 46 min
Actual flight today : 6 hrs 38 min
Load: 12/111 out of 12/112
Fuel Load: 39.0

737 doesn't seem to have the problem.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:48 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 7):
Watch out, rain in LAX is like snow an Ice storm in ATL. Locals don't know how to drive in either!

People in LA can't drive when the road is dry, I would not want to be there when it rains. From here on out I am flying into LAX, not driving.

The jet stream is dipping big time. It is even getting chilly here. The Lake Mead area barely got out of the 50s.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting MEL (Reply 2):
Air Canada New York JFK-Vancouver A319 today - stop in Winnipeg

That is quite surprising. Perhaps they didn't think they would need to load as much fuel. I understand an A320 getting knocked down, but A319s should have enough range in reserve.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
filejw
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 2:58 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:21 pm

1120A, The 319 has more range but not that much,few hundred miles in practicality.737NG's and 757 have lots more range when you get into flight planning.Airbus 320 family are good for east coast west coast 95% of the time ,this is that 5%.
 
Tbird
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:09 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:46 pm

Does anyone see this as a long term problem for jetBlue in terms of cost? 22 fuel stops at least to me is a huge amount of money to spend. Even if this only happens a few times a year it must cost jetBlue a few hundred thousand in extra expenses. Not to start an A vs. B war but it would certainly seem to me that the 737 would have been a better choice for and airline with so many supposed non-stop transcons. Any insight on this?
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:50 pm

Looks like another day with a strong (160-180 kts.) jetstream...  Sad

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
greenguy01
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:21 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:53 pm

USAirways was making tech-stops out of PHL yesterday on their transcons also. I'm sure that anyone flying Airbiii yesterday from the east coast to the west coast was making tech-stops.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):
Looks like another day with a strong (160-180 kts.) jetstream...

Great!! I love spending 45 minutes to fuel an MD80. Had to put 44,000 lbs on TOL-LAS last night when it usually takes 35,000 lbs. Hopefully they sent us another MD80 with Aux tanks...if not...It'll stop somewhere  Wink
 
gman3
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:13 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:35 am

So far the flights I have checked for UA last night to SFO and LAX were 30 minutes over target
 
TokyoNarita
Posts: 556
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:30 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:43 am

Delta fuel stops due to winds aloft. 2/16

381 CVG PHX OKC M88
1091 CVG PHX OKC M90
499 ATL PHX DFW M88
627 ATL TUS ELP M88

TokyoNarita
 
vulindlela744
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 3:03 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:18 am

I bet Jet Blue had to been thinking......HMMM shoulda bought Boeing. Oh well, too late. I am a f/a for AirTran and we fly the 737-700's from Atl to the west coast. SFO,LAX and LAS. Never, even with the most severe headwinds have we ever had to divert for fuel. I love Airbus for the comfort level but the truth is Boeing definately has longer legs. Would hate to see that fuel bill!!!!!!!!!!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Filejw (Reply 11):
1120A, The 319 has more range but not that much,few hundred miles in practicality.737NG's and 757 have lots more range when you get into flight planning.Airbus 320 family are good for east coast west coast 95% of the time ,this is that 5%.

The 757 has lots more range, yes, but the 737NG's only have slightly (though noticably) more range than their A320 Family counterparts. The A319 has nearly 500nm more range than the A320 and would have significantly less issue with the flights.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):
Looks like another day with a strong (160-180 kts.) jetstream...

Hey OPNL, what are the "floating" numbers on the chart? Is this the tropopause level?

Just wondering, us low-altitude guys don't look athe high altitude stuff much (except as needed for passing FAA exams  Wink )

Thanks!
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:40 am

I bet all the US Airways A321 transcons to SFO/PHX/LAX are tech-stopping. Those things barely have the legs to make it transcon as it is.

[Edited 2006-02-17 20:42:31]
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
timboflier215
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Tbird (Reply 12):
Not to start an A vs. B war but it would certainly seem to me that the 737 would have been a better choice for and airline with so many supposed non-stop transcons. Any insight on this?

AFAIK, the A320 is more economical under normal operating conditions. since conditions such as the current jetstream are fairly un-common, im sure that the A320 makes up the economics during the rest of the year. otherwise, LCCs such as jetblue probably would have gone for boeings...
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 22):
AFAIK, the A320 is more economical under normal operating conditions. since conditions such as the current jetstream are fairly un-common, im sure that the A320 makes up the economics during the rest of the year.

Actually, the 737 has lower fuel burn, lower landing costs (lower weight) and a lower CASM combined with longer range and higher dispatch reliability. Additionaly, maintaniance costs are lower on the 737.

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 22):
otherwise, LCCs such as jetblue probably would have gone for boeings...

Actually, B6 was ready to sign for 738s and F9 had signed an LOI for 73Gs. The problem was that the Boeing sales team didn't take them seriously and made WAY too many demands and not enough price concessions. Airbus came in and made a more competitive offer. in case you are forgetting, the world's largest LCC is an all Boeing airline.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
timboflier215
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:03 am

i hadnt forgotten. i was just under the impression that the A320 was a more economical aircraft, hence the incredible sales figure last year. but im happy to be corrected!
 
jumbojet
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:05 am

JetBlue making more diversions today, 2/17 probably same reasons as yesterday
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 7):
Watch out, rain in LAX is like snow an Ice storm in ATL. Locals don't know how to drive in either!

Tell me about it. I'm a great snow driver, let alone rain driver, but when it rains here, I try to stay off the road because everyone else is freaking out.

The radio is full of "car over the side" announcements during traffic reports in the rain. People don't slow down on freeway exits and just drive off a cliff. Amazing.

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 24):
i hadnt forgotten. i was just under the impression that the A320 was a more economical aircraft, hence the incredible sales figure last year. but im happy to be corrected!

For short haul aircraft, a lot more than fuel burn comes into play. Acquisition cost, availability of aircraft when you need them, service contracts, etc.

The USA is an interesting situation because we here demand that the A320 and 737NG fly long routes more than most other places. The A320 wasn't quite designed for this (there was still strong demand for the 757 for this kind of route), which is one thing B took into account with the 737NG (as 757 sales were declining).

But this is about pushing these planes to their operational limits. Even in the USA (and Canada), most carriers use them on shorter routes than transcon most of the time. But there is no doubt that on the longer routes, the 737NG outperform. Obviously, that doesn't translate into a sales leadership position for Boeing recently.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
The USA is an interesting situation because we here demand that the A320 and 737NG fly long routes more than most other places. The A320 wasn't quite designed for this (there was still strong demand for the 757 for this kind of route), which is one thing B took into account with the 737NG (as 757 sales were declining).

Actually, you are wrong here. The A320-200 and A319-100 were specifically designed with the range to do US transcons, which is why United bought them. The loss of United to Airbus was what prompted Boeing to launch the 737NG program
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
richierich
Posts: 3282
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Vulindlela744 (Reply 18):
I am a f/a for AirTran and we fly the 737-700's from Atl to the west coast. SFO,LAX and LAS. Never, even with the most severe headwinds have we ever had to divert for fuel.

Isn't ATL-LAX considerably shorter (500 miles or so) than NYC-LAX?
None shall pass!!!!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 21):
I bet all the US Airways A321 transcons to SFO/PHX/LAX are tech-stopping. Those things barely have the legs to make it transcon as it is.

Some are indeed making stops in MCI.

However on a strictly technical point of view, the A321-200 does have in general longer legs then the A320, as the type features up to 2 addition Auxiliary Center Tanks.(ACT).

There was a lengthy discussion in TechOps about this a few weeks back including input from pilots confirming the greater range abilities of the A321.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Tbird (Reply 12):
737 would have been a better choice for and airline with so many supposed non-stop transcons. Any insight on this?

No real insight other than this is a yearly problem and always will be with this aircraft. It was a bad business decision not to buy something that can reliably, all year around, fly coast to coast.

As far as operating costs, maybe the A-320 is lower, but certainly not this time of year and it is doubtful that the rest of the year makes up for such expensive cost, such as multiple diversions. Even if it is, what kind of customer base do you lose because of this? That is a greater problem than just airplane costs. I does piss off a lot of people to have to deal with diversions, even if it is because of weather, but when you just do not have the correct equipment for your route structure, that is just bad service.

M
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 30):
As far as operating costs, maybe the A-320 is lower, but certainly not this time of year and it is doubtful that the rest of the year makes up for such expensive cost, such as multiple diversions. Even if it is, what kind of customer base do you lose because of this? That is a greater problem than just airplane costs. I does piss off a lot of people to have to deal with diversions, even if it is because of weather, but when you just do not have the correct equipment for your route structure, that is just bad service.

B6 pax are loyal........a "diversion" won't stop them from flying on B6.......if it happens to a pax a few times however, then there might be some problems...
"Up the Irons!"
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:18 am

i think the subject behind United Airlines buying Airbus a/c has a lot more to do than the range of the a/c being able to fly transcons. Heated debate talks about UA buying those for the p.r. and the politics behind UA wanting more from European nations routes, gates, slots, and an "arms open" approach to UA opening new European cities.

Also, when I noticed how many JetBlue flights were fuel diversions through the past couple days, I have been reviewing CO's flights out of EWR since they fly Boeing a/c, and I was wondering if they took as a big a hit with the heavy jetstream, but their operations really did not look to be so effected, and if at all, I think I saw 2 flights that looked like fuel diversions
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 31):
B6 pax are loyal........a "diversion" won't stop them from flying on B6.......if it happens to a pax a few times however, then there might be some problems

They were loyal to another carrier 6-7 years ago too.

M
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):

OPNL,
where did you get that chart from out of interest?
Thanks a lot,Alex
 
petmbro
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:07 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/1

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:41 am

In February 2004 I remember there was a similar weather system on my FLL-ATL-BDL flight on DL, when we landed in ATL the T-storms rolled in and when we pushed back we had about a 90 minute delay. When we finally landed in BDL, we were only about 20 minutes late.
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
 
727forever
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:50 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:47 am

The reason that the A319 has the longer legs than the A320 is a matter of weight. Under most conditions the 319 can climb straight to cruise altitude of FL370 to FL390 with a full load and full fuel. The 320 and 321 would be too heavy with full fuel and a full load and thus would have to step climb by flying the first couple of hours at FL330 to FL350. The A32X family needs to be above FL350 to achieve their mega fuel savings. Those couple of hours at FL350 or lower for the 320 and 321 will raise their fuel burn just high enough so that they won't be able to make the transcon with alternate reserves.

727forever
727forever
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/1

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 34):

OPNL,
where did you get that chart from out of interest?

Right here: http://aviationweather.gov/products/swh/

Look under Mercator, area B1... This is the whole chart--I just posted a small section of it earlier...

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 20):
Hey OPNL, what are the "floating" numbers on the chart? Is this the tropopause level?

http://aviationweather.gov/products/swh/info.php

[Edited 2006-02-17 23:57:41]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 33):
They were loyal to another carrier 6-7 years ago too.

true, but B6's service is very good (while the others have deteriorated)...

and as I said, if it happens a few times to a pax, I wouldn't be surprised to see them reconsider flying another airline...
"Up the Irons!"
 
hawaijahaz
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:48 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:04 am

My brother is on the evening B6 fight from JFK to SJC. Do you think that flight will also have to make a fuel stop?

thanks.

Priyanshu
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Hawaijahaz (Reply 39):
My brother is on the evening B6 fight from JFK to SJC. Do you think that flight will also have to make a fuel stop?

Winds can change, but I would keep check on the flight status if you are picking him up. He would probably call from where ever they stop, if they have to?

M
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:27 am

WN ---

PHL-LAX stopping in TUL
PHL-OAK stopping in MDW

[Edited 2006-02-18 01:53:03]
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/1

Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 41):

PHL-LAX stopping in TUL
PHL-OAK stopping in OMA

185 PHL-LAX was going to fuelstop TUL but the payload dropped off and they were able to launch non-stop...

343 PHL-OAK was going to fuelstop at OMA, but will now fuelstop at MDW instead...

[Edited 2006-02-18 01:43:08]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
chris133
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:41 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:47 am

WN
BWI-lax no problem today but it did take 6:38 and the fuel load was around 41,000 (counting all the reserves)
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 30):
As far as operating costs, maybe the A-320 is lower, but certainly not this time of year and it is doubtful that the rest of the year makes up for such expensive cost, such as multiple diversions. Even if it is, what kind of customer base do you lose because of this? That

I fly IAD-OAK three or four times a year. While I always fly UA because I'm premier elite, I wouldn't fly JetBlue even if I wasn't PE. Why fly on a "non-stop" that isn't when you can fly an airline that is truly non-stop?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 29):
However on a strictly technical point of view, the A321-200 does have in general longer legs then the A320, as the type features up to 2 addition Auxiliary Center Tanks.(ACT).

The US birds don't have the ACTs to my knowledge. Also, the ACT has, at least on the A320, proved useless

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 30):
As far as operating costs, maybe the A-320 is lower

They aren't. The 737 has the lower operating costs

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 32):
i think the subject behind United Airlines buying Airbus a/c has a lot more to do than the range of the a/c being able to fly transcons. Heated debate talks about UA buying those for the p.r. and the politics behind UA wanting more from European nations routes, gates, slots, and an "arms open" approach to UA opening new European cities.

Actually, United was completely set to reorder the 737. In case you are forgetting, they already had a huge 737Classic fleet. The specific issue was range. United wanted something smaller than a 757 that could do transcons so they could add frequency. Boeing wasn't building it and hadn't thought to do that with the 737. Boeing lost the order. Boeing built the 737NG

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 44):
I fly IAD-OAK three or four times a year. While I always fly UA because I'm premier elite, I wouldn't fly JetBlue even if I wasn't PE. Why fly on a "non-stop" that isn't when you can fly an airline that is truly non-stop?

Are you Premier or Premier Executive, because there isn't Premier Elite. Also, B6 offers better frequency on the route and both carriers fly Airbus narrowbodies on it (with B6's having higher rated engines). B6 has little if any trouble with routes out of IAD given that they are shorter than JFK, let alone BOS routes to the west coast.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
Are you Premier or Premier Executive, because there isn't Premier Elite. Also, B6 offers better frequency on the route and both carriers fly Airbus narrowbodies on it (with B6's having higher rated engines). B6 has little if any trouble with routes out of IAD given that they are shorter than JFK, let alone BOS routes to the west coast.

Premier executive. So sorry I made a mistake. That's one for me and dozens for you.

I guess you missed the first post in this thread. IAD-OAK flight 321 couldn't make it without a fuel stop. UA's direct flight had no such problem.

Who cares about higher rated engines when the B6 flight can't make it without a fuel stop? UA seems to be able to make the IAD-OAK run using either A319's or 757's. Without stopping in Denver for fuel.

If I'm going to have to make a stop in Denver on United, at least I get to use the Red Carpet Club.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 47):
I guess you missed the first post in this thread. IAD-OAK flight 321 couldn't make it without a fuel stop. UA's direct flight had no such problem.

They also fly a smaller plane with less frequency. Beyond that, it is entirely possible that United's dispatchers prepared better for the strong jetstream than B6, but it doesn't reflect on the carrier's general planning. Would you be panning United if one of their A320's on IAD-LAX had gotten knocked down?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 47):
Who cares about higher rated engines when the B6 flight can't make it without a fuel stop? UA seems to be able to make the IAD-OAK run using either A319's or 757's. Without stopping in Denver for fuel.

Um, a 757 doesn't compare at all to an Airbus narrowbody as far as range goes, but look at this story. I was on a United p.s. flight (lighter aircraft because of the low density configuration) that got knocked down on the eastbound from LAX to JFK at IAD because of the threat of a t-storm at JFK and the need to vector around traffic. We had only been up in the air about 6 or so hours when the captain got on the PA and said we were fuel critical and had to divert to Dulles, where we then spend 3:37 on the ground and a bunch of us going to London had to be pushed back onto another flight, with another large group heading back to Israel having to be escorted to their LY flight that had been sitting there for them. United's dispatchers and the pilots hadn't planned enough fuel onto the plane so even though the 757 is easily autonomous to 8 hours, we had to set down after 6. In other words $hit happens and sometimes stops have to be made. It doesn't make it a bad airline and didn't keep me from flying nearly 80,000 miles with them last year.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 47):
If I'm going to have to make a stop in Denver on United, at least I get to use the Red Carpet Club.

And on B6 you can watch TV.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 47):
Premier executive. So sorry I made a mistake. That's one for me and dozens for you.

Ha, if you think you have only made one mistake, you have another thing coming.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
notbluejet
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:00 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:33 am

We will see come June/July when the winglets start being tested.
I have heard 4-5% increase in fuel efficiency but have also heard 2-3%. No one will know untill they are up in the air and the real numbers come in. Either way this might be that extra little kick to get the A320s across the continent without issue.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: JetBlue Making Lots Of Fuel Stops Tonight (2/16)

Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 47):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 47):
I guess you missed the first post in this thread. IAD-OAK flight 321 couldn't make it without a fuel stop. UA's direct flight had no such problem.

They also fly a smaller plane with less frequency. Beyond that, it is entirely possible that United's dispatchers prepared better for the strong jetstream than B6, but it doesn't reflect on the carrier's general planning. Would you be panning United if one of their A320's on IAD-LAX had gotten knocked down?

UA also flies that route with a 757. But in any event, who cares about frequency when you have to stop to make unscheduled fuel stops?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 47):
I was on a United p.s. flight (lighter aircraft because of the low density configuration) that got knocked down on the eastbound from LAX to JFK at IAD because of the threat of a t-storm at JFK and the need to vector around traffic

Nice try. I'm talking about IAD-OAK. A route that UA aircraft seem to have no problem making without a fuel stop, and B6 does. And excuse me, but what relevence is your JFK tale? We are talking about an airline that has bought aircaft to fly scheduled routes that they can't reliably make at certain times of the year. Not an isolated event such as the arrival airport being shut down.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 47):
In other words $hit happens and sometimes stops have to be made. It doesn't make it a bad airline and didn't keep me from flying nearly 80,000 miles with them last year.

I'm happy that you are happy with B6. That doesn't change the fact that they should have bought aircraft that could fly transcon if their business plan calls for transcon flights. And at least now I know why your legal posts are so riddled with errors. Anyone who has time to fly 80,000 miles a year isn't spending much time with the law books!
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

Who is online