KarlB737
Topic Author
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:45 am

Courtesy: Associated Press

Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060217/delta_pilots.html?.v=7
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:52 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:58 am

I can hear the drum beats far off in the distance. Heard them before in 1986 with TWA. TWA, what happened to TWA? Oh dear God, not again!!
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:17 am

Some pilots held signs that said "career employees, turnstile management," and "it's not the cost of fuel, it's the lack of leadership." Another sign read: "Employee sacrifices should not enrich management."
No truer signs could be held...it's too bad you don't have the non-union employees blowing the same horn, because it applies to every single non-management employee on property.

On Thursday, the union warned that if the bankruptcy court approves the severance payouts, it could hurt efforts to agree on more pilot concessions...The Air Line Pilots Association said the Atlanta-based airline's Feb. 8 bankruptcy court request for the officer severance plan would be bad for employee morale.
Damn right...not just the pilot's morale, but everyone. If these needless payouts are approved, expect talks to stall even more- this is another turn of the proverbial knife in the pilot's backs.

Delta has been seeking $325 million in new concessions from its 6,000 pilots. It recently offered to lower the request to $315 million, including an 18 percent wage cut.
10 mil..big whoop. Nice good-faith negotiations on the part of the company.

Delta pilots who are furloughed get up to six months of pay depending on years of service, according the union, which says the company wants to reduce the furlough benefit to the equivalent of up to three months of pay.
While giving management golden parachutes. In addition to this needless request, management also wants unhindered furlough power...so, they can boot out any number of pilots for any reason (no more running to the force majure clause), and then pay them practically nothing. This isn't management anymore, this is a dictatorship.

Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
papatango
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:58 am

Has any Delta pilot raised the issue of the millions of $ DALPA took from Delta post 9/11 becasue of their UA+1 stance?
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:13 am

If the pilots strike Delta will go on an involantary strike, is that what you really want. I feel bad for you guys but to put everyone out of a job is not cool. Please reconsider.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:15 am

Please reconsider? You mean, allow the company to have all of their bullshit requests? Sure.

I understand the gravity of any strike, but why not tell the company to reconsider messing with labor? Enough is enough.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:23 am

We all know Delta doesn't care if all Delta employes jumped off of E concourse and got hit by a passing 777 as long as the fligh did't delay. I can get another job but, I cant say the same for everybody. Everyone has had to suffer from the BS of upstairs, but we keep working, partly because we don't have a union to back us on a strike and the other because we know if we strike there wont be a job to walk back to.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
BOS2LAF
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:21 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:30 am

I don't blame them for being p*ssed off. Management needs to take a lesson from Continental and Gordon Bethune. They need to be honest about whats going on, and show that they're all in it together. Not slashing pay while giving themselves golden parachutes. Thats just arrogance.

While I dont blame them for being irate about whats going on, a strike would not be the most helpful solution. A useful threat maybe, but following through would be a mistake.

[Edited 2006-02-17 23:32:39]
 
WDBRR
Posts: 599
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:28 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:22 am

Hasn't anyone learned from the labor strife at Eastern ?
Both management and employees need to work together,
otherwise it will just tear the company apart. If Delta folds,
there will be a big fight on who moves into the ATL superhub.
 
CVG72
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:14 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:28 am

Come on, Delta, pull on through this. You guys are a great, convienent airline. You can do it. And I'm going to SXM through ATL on the 13th so come on!

CVG72
Roll Tide // Next: UA/EV/LH CVG-EWR-FRA-DUS-MUC-EWR-CVG
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting Papatango (Reply 3):
Has any Delta pilot raised the issue of the millions of $ DALPA took from Delta post 9/11 becasue of their UA+1 stance?

We all agree the DL pilots made a lot of money. Still do if you ask me (but I may be wrong.) While I hardly ever agree with unions I do see a bit of their point though. The previous management wrangled some concessions out of them with the statement that while it was painful it wouldn't have to ahppen again. Now the newer management is coming back to the well and wanting even more. Granted, the newer management seems to have a better grasp on the situation than the previous yahoos but it still kind of stinks.

Personally I doubt they will strike. I think both sides will reach a medium somehow where they both think they are getting screwed but will help the company in the long run. DL will pull through these issues. If folks like UA and US can get through it (some of them twice) I'm sure DL can get the pieces together.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:45 am




Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 7):
I don't blame them for being p*ssed off. Management needs to take a lesson from Continental and Gordon Bethune. They need to be honest about whats going on, and show that they're all in it together. Not slashing pay while giving themselves golden parachutes. Thats just arrogance.

 checkmark 

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
I understand the gravity of any strike, but why not tell the company to reconsider messing with labor? Enough is enough.

Absolutely. Promises made to labor groups should not be negotiable. Management may label those promises as impossible to uphold, but the fact is, it's their job to make it all come together.

The pilots have been doing their part. I'd say it's time for management to do theirs.

BTW, congrats on your 3000th post, DeltaGuy!




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
AirlineAV8tr
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:20 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2):
Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.

DeltaGuy

Amen!! Pilots take a 32% pay cut while management gets a "Golden Parachute"? It's GOT to stop! Management's refusal to sacrifice their severance, while their employees are doing all they can to bend over backwards and keep this great airline in the air, is disgusting. I'm tired of people attacking DL pilots about their salary. Take a look at managements severance package! Looks nice doesn't it? Sure these guys/Gals were some of the highest paid. But imagine living on a salary, and becoming used to living on that salary, only to take 32% away- WILLINGLY, only for management to say "we want more"! Disgusting......
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Papatango (Reply 3):
Has any Delta pilot raised the issue of the millions of $ DALPA took from Delta post 9/11 becasue of their UA+1 stance?

We did not take anything. I don't disagree that the pay was high, but it was a negotiated contract signed by both sides.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
We all agree the DL pilots made a lot of money. Still do if you ask me (but I may be wrong.)

Delta pilots now make less than the pilots at Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier, Continental, American, Hawaiin, and others. No, the Delta pilots do not still make a lot of money.
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 12):
Pilots take a 32% pay cut while management gets a "Golden Parachute"?

The pilots took a 32% cut over a year ago, and recently took another 14% cut.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 12):
Amen!! Pilots take a 32% pay cut while management gets a "Golden Parachute"? It's GOT to stop!

Oh it'll stop. It'll stop when they pilots cut their noses off to spite their faces, atrike the company, and burn the place down so there is no airline to come back to.
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:01 pm

Well you pilots can go on strike for whatever benifits you want but will you have a job to get them from.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
tu154m
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:45 pm

Just hurry up and do something. Get on with it. Put your $$$$ where your mouth is and shut it down. Enough is enough. All talk and no action makes Jack a very dull boy..........
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
ptharris
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:58 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:34 pm

OH MY GOD!!! It's EASTERN all over again. I can faintly here Taps being played in the background....

I understand why the pilots are fighting, and yahoo for you. But wouldn't it make more sense to strike a company that's a bit more financially solvent? Strongarm your way into a better car and bigger house when the price isn't so expensive for "Ramp Agent Joe" and his family at home. Don't like what you're paid, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!! Union's brainwash members to look only forward and not around. There's other carriers to fly for. Don't ruin one then be forced to go to the other... they'll see you coming and get you for bottom basement price! Why, because they know you're out of work and NEED a job! Oh, one other thing to remember... you're union rep, keeps his/her job even after you lose yours. What a pity...

Delta Pilots: Good luck to you! You're going to need it. I hope while you're on the picket lines you don't turn around an notice the Delta Air Lines sign missing.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
db373
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:01 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 6):
We all know Delta doesn't care if all Delta employes jumped off of E concourse and got hit by a passing 777 as long as the fligh did't delay.

Wasn't it the lovely pilots that pretty much kept DL from ordering the 777?

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 13):
Delta pilots now make less than the pilots at Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier, Continental, American, Hawaiin, and others. No, the Delta pilots do not still make a lot of money.

Link? Last I saw, DL was still #4 on the pilot payscale....
Keep Delta My Delta
 
cairo
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:45 pm

I think the pilots should demand as much as they think they're worth and strike if they want to. Unions can perform a valuable role in the capitalist system.

What I don't understand is this: why do the pilots let their emotions dictate whether they will strike or not? Why isn't it just purely an objective financial issue?

The 'golden parachutes' are estimated by the company to be as little as 3
million dollars (assuming 20% of mgmt is terminated) and at most (if every single executive got fired) 14 million dollars. WHO CARES??? Can we all agree that whether or not the 'parachutes' are activated it will have no effect on the financial health of Delta?

The shareholder equity in Delta has already been completely destroyed. Delta's creditors, in effect, now own Delta. Delta has been given a second chance and is in a very fragile state, but the pilots are worried about severance pay for management purely because it pisses them off, not because it has any effect on the financial health of Delta. There are all kinds of things employees can do positively if they want to help ensure their future, but this doesn't make sense to me. Why worry about ego and things that have no effect on finanances when Delta's finances are in absolute critical condition? Anyone care to explain?

Cairo
 
tu154m
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:56 pm

Just got a call from a friend who works for DL at ATL. Evidently there was a work slowdown today by the pilots at DL. He also stated that every single pilot he spoke to said they were going to strike and Gerry has a rude awakening coming. Again, just heresay from a friend who works there.............
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
AirlineAV8tr
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:20 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:10 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 15):
Oh it'll stop. It'll stop when they pilots cut their noses off to spite their faces, atrike the company, and burn the place down so there is no airline to come back to.

After managements behavior, that may be the best. After all the nearly 50% pay cut, it's probably more benificial to look elswhere, and tell management to enjoy their million$. If DL goes under, it would be horrible, but you can't blame a workgroup that has sacrificed so much already. Obviously, you support management. All I can say is....What will management walk away with, compared to what the pilots will? If you still think that's fair, or you think that DL pilots should give more to them....well, I guess you've never flown for an airline, and can't see the games being played here. Imagine your paycheck arriving 47% short, while your boss has implimented a "golden chute" to save his a$$, and not yours.

[Edited 2006-02-18 06:18:11]
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
deltamd88
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:17 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:18 pm

Quoting Tu154m (Reply 21):
Again, just heresay from a friend who works there.............

I sure hope so

I have been a loyal DL customer for quite some time now. I love the airline, the employees are great and treat their customers well. However, the pilots have taken many cuts and there comes a time when they need to take a stand and say 'enough is enough'. I would hate to see the airline go Ch. 7, but something has to give. I know DL has cut their losses dramatically over 2004, but mgt. needs to look in other places to cut costs. I only wish they would look back to Lorenzo and EA, there are many lessons to be learned there, EA did not die in vain. I have a ROA-ATL-PHL flight with them on the 16th, I would hate to see them fold, but I cannot blame the pilots for striking either.
 
AirlineAV8tr
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:20 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2):
Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.

DeltaGuy, you could not be more correct!
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
The pilots have been doing their part. I'd say it's time for management to do theirs.

BTW, congrats on your 3000th post, DeltaGuy!

Haha, I didn't even notice it till you told me...thanks for noticing then Big grin

But I do agree...the picketing signs that say "it's not the cost of fuel, it's the lack of leadership" are spot fucking on. Make them earn their keep, instead of rewarding sheer incompetence.

Might I remind us of something else that most of you 'in the know' are aware of already- the pilots could work for free and the company still wouldn't be any better off. Why shake the proverbial money tree till it's purple just for a little bit of cash that'll only piss the employees off even more?

Tu154m, that comes at no surprise. I'm sure there is/will be plenty of slow taxi times, sick outs, etc etc...same as United +1, except now it's lower than "LCC +1".

Quoting Cairo (Reply 20):
WHO CARES??? Can we all agree that whether or not the 'parachutes' are activated it will have no effect on the financial health of Delta?

Alot of people care. It's not merely +-10mil, it's the principle. It's a lack of leadership, asking employees to forgo more of their salary so management can be double-breasted and take money that's not theirs. At this point, 10mil IS alot and every cent counts. 10 mil not spent on their stupid severence is 10mil less the employees have to kick back. The 'real' Spirit of Delta is long since dead and decaying in the grass north of 26R/8L. Jerry, Mullin, all of them are nothing more than vultures.

Quoting Db373 (Reply 19):
Wasn't it the lovely pilots that pretty much kept DL from ordering the 777?

Look around...there's 8 777's on property. Did the union have something to do with additional 777 orders? Partly. Was management back then also much more stubborn? Yes. You're also very mistaken about DL's pilot pay. DL pilots make pennies compared to other far smaller airlines. You don't work your whole life to be rewarded by crap wages.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:34 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 20):
What I don't understand is this: why do the pilots let their emotions dictate whether they will strike or not?

I don't think the pilots are basing the strike on emotions. I'll let a Delta employee correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me they're basing it on values. Big difference.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
AirlineAV8tr
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:20 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:49 pm

I just got of the phone with one of the two uncles I have flying for DL. He has been there 17 years, and says: "I started over with Eastern, and it looks like I may be starting over again. I give so much of my life to my proffesion, only to be asked to give more of what I can't afford to give. Had management joined us in this sacrifice, I'd give everything for the effort to keep it flying. Tell the people that think we're 'greedy' to either work double the hours for the same pay, or take half of your pay and throw it down the toilet. What irritates me the most is if the severance package is approved, a portion of my pay won't be going to the survival of the airline, but in to the pockets of the people that destroyed it."

I thought you may have wanted a DL pilot's view of all this.
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
MX757
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:05 pm

The bottom line here is Leadership. If Delta's executives are not willing to forego more pay and benefits cuts ("The Golden Parachute") how can they expect their labor groups to continue taking more and more concessions?

When CO's CEO Larry Kellner wanted $500 million pay and benefit reductions from CO's labor groups the first thing he did was give himself a 25% pay reduction and forego all bonuses for all of 2005. The rest of the executive group took a 20% pay reduction an no bonuses for 2005 also. And look what happened! All of the union labor groups with the exception of the F/A's agreed to the concessions the first time around! The F/A's agreed after the second time around!

Now to me that is Leadership, and it steered CO away of a possible 3rd trip into BK. It also keeps CO on strong fiancial footing to keep us competitive and allows for continual growth.

BTW I am a union CO employee and I voted yes to the concessions because Larry took the concession first and I believed him when he said had to do it. The company showed all the union groups what CO's finiancal situtation was going to be without the cuts and how bad thing were going to get. Our union agreed with the company and strongly urged it's rank and file members to agree to the terms which we did. (Over 70% of the members voted "yes".)
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:14 pm

^^^ what he said ^^^

When Jerry initially took the helm, he surprised an already group of weary employees by reducing his pay and forgoing bonuses, etc. He initally won the respect of the people, but actions speak louder than words, and this new setup only discredits him and all of his associates. Nevermind the fact that he choice to forgo a severence package for himself, that's just a drop in the bucket. This remains all his doing.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
legacytravel
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:05 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:29 pm

I too ladies and gentleman had to take 3 different paycuts back in the 90's to try and save our union jobs from being outsourced to China and Mexico.
We agreed to the first two before I left and took up a job someplace else. I am normally anti-union but in this case I have to agree with the pilots on this one. This is not team play here it is screw the workers and line our pockets. If the management there would pass on the golden parachutes that would send a signal to all employees that we are in this together.
Dont be afraid to look and change jobs there is a huge world out there with different challenges for all. I have started my own business making more money now than I ever could have "working for someone else". And I can thank Master Lock Inc. for dipping into the well one to many times and forcing me to get off my dead A** and do something different. It might take awhile but all employees will find something else and will usually come out ahead.
So I am behing the pilots 100% on this one. If you have to sacrifice a few lambs to save the whole herd that is what you do.
Best Wishes to all involved.
Mark in MKE
I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
 
User avatar
antoniemey
Posts: 1222
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 20):
The 'golden parachutes' are estimated by the company to be as little as 3
million dollars (assuming 20% of mgmt is terminated) and at most (if every single executive got fired) 14 million dollars. WHO CARES??? Can we all agree that whether or not the 'parachutes' are activated it will have no effect on the financial health of Delta?

That 3-14 Million could pay a lot of CSA's, Rampers, Caterers, and F/A's for a day's work, and that WOULD make a difference. It could also buy a lot of ticket and boarding pass stock, a whole lot of bag tags, some Ground Service Equipment, or even *gasp* fuel to keep those planes flying.

Delta MAY be hemorraging Billions of $$ per year, but 14 million WILL make a difference SOMEWHERE.

And again, it is also the principal of the matter...

in every job I'd have, if I got fired, I was stuck. No paycheck AT ALL until I found another job. No benefits until I found another job. But, at each of those companies, the same situation existed... if an executive got fired, even if it was because he was the worst person at his job on the planet, he got a couple of million dollars severance pay, sometimes some nice stock options, and he had a new job before he could get the money in the bank. No, from where I'm sitting living Paycheck to Paycheck, that smells, BADLY.

I have no problem with peopel with fancy degrees and such making more than me, I have no problems with the people that run the company making more than me. I do have a problem with top management getting paid to leave the company in any manner other than retirement. I imagine most of DL's pilots (And a lot of other workers) as well as a lot of NW employees feel pretty close to the same way.

I'll get off my soap box now.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:37 pm

Look DL guys;

I paid a more than decent fare to fly on your airline at a premium fare later this afternoon. If I get stuck with your employees that voluntarily wave signs in my face telling me that I shouldn't be flying with you because your bosses sucks, well, I'm sorry... I didn't pay for harassment (at one end) or a guilt-trip (at the other end).

That said, any more of your flag-waving affecting my travel, and I'll make a note to never fly your airline again unless I have a family member dying back home. You've already screwed me on a number of occasions (not that you're any worse than the "others"). Well done DL. Piss off your clientele. Way to make a point.

Your pre-emptive striking is absolute bullshit at the very best, and will be your demise at the very worst.
We can agree to disagree.
 
TL8490
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:50 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:05 pm

Reality is that the pilot profession has been devalued. It is not just Delta ..look at NW right now. You can make the arguement that Southwest pays more to their pilots...very true...but they do not have a sustainable model with oil at over $60 a barrel longterm, their hedges will run out someday.

What the pilots should be doing is trying to up their equity stake in the new shares that will be issued after they emerge from bankrupcy...there will be many opportunities to make make money and control the destiny of Delta..if the pilots do not become too shortsighted.
 
Delta07
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:07 am

This is slightly off-topic but I have a friend who was a flight attendant supervisor in the office (not sure of what the title is). Notice, I said "was" He had been a senior flight attendant for years and then moved up to supervisor in Delta's office and I've been in contact with him recently and he said that he was no longer there because he was tired of all the BS. He was telling me that the pilots having it rough and the flight attendants attitude has changed because they're under stress wondering if they will have a job tomorrow. He told me that people FA/Pilots/etc... are leaving every single day of the week...they go through employees like kleenex. That's why he left.

Anyway, just thought I would mention that as a side note. I used to hold Delta in high regards in my heart but now, I'm ashamed of them...corportate that is, not the pilots but all here who have read the above know what I mean. Is the end nearing for another major airline???.....
NO URLS in signature
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:17 am

Hard as it is to say this being a loyal DL flyer, but looks like I better start using my SkyMiles pretty quickly.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 22):
If DL goes under, it would be horrible, but you can't blame a workgroup that has sacrificed so much already

This work group you speak of was THE very last to open there wallet and give up dollars to help the company. They stalled as long as humanly possible, long after the other groups at DL had taken pay cuts.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ptharris
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:58 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:29 am

So, we've heard the percentage paycuts.... so, what is the going pay rate of pilots now? Are the pilots afraid to post this? I'm surprised nobody has asked.

Quoting Wukka (Reply 32):
I paid a more than decent fare to fly on your airline at a premium fare later this afternoon. If I get stuck with your employees that voluntarily wave signs in my face telling me that I shouldn't be flying with you because your bosses sucks, well, I'm sorry... I didn't pay for harassment (at one end) or a guilt-trip (at the other end).

Absolutely. See what the selfish "I want money and I want the management to hurt because of it!" does? If for some miricle DL pulls through a strike and bankruptcy, who the hell is going to be flying them? They may have got what they want, but if they've pissed too many passengers off... who's paying the wage?

Personally, I think it's horrible timing on the pilots part. I'm all for them getting an "across the board" wage, but careful planning, I feel, would better them and the company rather than just them. Because what will happen if the company folds? The claim will be something like "Well, they didn't have the spine to take care of their employees" or "That'll teach them!". It sure won't be "What do I do now?" or "That wasn't very productive".

When they're bleeding financially they'll still be cutting payroll checks to ya. But if you knock the feet from under the company when it's hurting worst, they'll walk out of the board room with their stash and leave you hanging. Let those knuckleheads pull the company out of the hole and then start making demands. But, this is just my opinion.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
ual777
Posts: 1497
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Wukka (Reply 32):
That said, any more of your flag-waving affecting my travel, and I'll make a note to never fly your airline again unless I have a family member dying back home. You've already screwed me on a number of occasions (not that you're any worse than the "others"). Well done DL. Piss off your clientele. Way to make a point.

Your pre-emptive striking is absolute bullshit at the very best, and will be your demise at the very worst.

They aren't striking. They are doing informative picketing. Go have your employer take half of what you make, cut your health benefits, and axe your retirement and come back with a smile.

"Thank you sir, may I have another...."

I support you DL and NW guys. You guys are being reasonable.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 19):
Link? Last I saw, DL was still #4 on the pilot payscale....

Comparing captain hourly pay rates for the same size airplane, the A320, B737NG and in some cases the 717, here is what you come up with. All numbers taken from www.airlinerpilotcentral.com, which is a website run by a UPS pilot.



Southwest 73G 190
Continental 738 163
American 738 158
Frontier 319/318 157
Alaska 737/M80 154
Airtran 73G/717 153
Delta 738 149
Midwest M80/717 148
Hawaiin 717 148
JetBlue 320 139 (At JB, you get 1.5x the rate for all time over 70 hours)
Spirit 319/M80 138
Northwest 320 137
United 320/737 129
Aloha 737 128
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:00 am




Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 39):
United 320/737

Does he know something we don't know?  scratchchin 




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 40):
Does he know something we don't know?

don't know what you mean. But, for United the pay rate is the same for a 320 or 737, so I posted it that way.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:19 am

I can here the fat lady singing.

Hurry up and shut her down. DL management have come up with some good ideas, largely as a result of the song experience to try and whoo passengers back but if things are like this, it may be to little to late.

There IS overcapacity in the USA. i know that plenty of routes are growing, but if we cut total supply of seats back say, 10-20%, you'd still see MOST poeple still flying but at prices that were slightly increased. This would cause equilibrium in the market to be reached. I strongly believe this would have already happened in the US marketplace had the Chap 11 laws not been in place.

If you want evidence, look what happened with Ansett, Qantas and Virgin Blue. If Chap 11 style laws were in place, Ansett would still be around, both Ansett and QF employees would be in trouble and virgin would be making much more modist profits.

Given that I think this is where Virgin America comes in. If there enough airlines on life support, the presence of something like that could be just enough to knock one or two players out of the market.

AS for the pilots... I do feel for you guys. I suggest you all go off and get Airbus type ratings and apply at Emirates.
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 8):
Hasn't anyone learned from the labor strife at Eastern ?

Obviously not.

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 8):
Both management and employees need to work together,
otherwise it will just tear the company apart.

To late, eh?

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 8):
If Delta folds,
there will be a big fight on who moves into the ATL superhub.

ATL - either FL or UA
SLC - F9 or CO
CVG - WN

Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 7):
I don't blame them for being p*ssed off. Management needs to take a lesson from Continental and Gordon Bethune. They need to be honest about whats going on, and show that they're all in it together. Not slashing pay while giving themselves golden parachutes. Thats just arrogance.

 checkmark 

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 12):
"Golden Parachute"

is being smoltered and turned into cash for DL employees..... Then I woke up

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 18):
OH MY GOD!!! It's EASTERN all over again. I can faintly here Taps being played in the background....

*hears a trumpet in the backround*

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 18):
GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!

Where?
signed:
All DL employees

Quoting Db373 (Reply 19):
Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 13):
Delta pilots now make less than the pilots at Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier, Continental, American, Hawaiin, and others. No, the Delta pilots do not still make a lot of money.

Link? Last I saw, DL was still #4 on the pilot payscale....

Comparing all planes, DL is 4. But it's pretty outrageous comparing a 777 to a 737.

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 25):
But I do agree...the picketing signs that say "it's not the cost of fuel, it's the lack of leadership" are spot fucking on.quote]

If Qantas can make over $775 mil. USD with those same prices......

[quote=DeltaGuy,reply=25] DL pilots make pennies compared to other far smaller airlines.

WN is hardley small, they just don't have as many destinations  Wink

Quoting MX757 (Reply 28):
When CO's CEO Larry Kellner wanted $500 million pay and benefit reductions from CO's labor groups the first thing he did was give himself a 25% pay reduction and forego all bonuses for all of 2005. The rest of the executive group took a 20% pay reduction an no bonuses for 2005 also. And look what happened! All of the union labor groups with the exception of the F/A's agreed to the concessions the first time around! The F/A's agreed after the second time around!

Now to me that is Leadership, and it steered CO away of a possible 3rd trip into BK. It also keeps CO on strong fiancial footing to keep us competitive and allows for continual growth.

BTW I am a union CO employee and I voted yes to the concessions because Larry took the concession first and I believed him when he said had to do it. The company showed all the union groups what CO's finiancal situtation was going to be without the cuts and how bad thing were going to get. Our union agreed with the company and strongly urged it's rank and file members to agree to the terms which we did. (Over 70% of the members voted "yes".)

A reason that CO is not in bankruptcy (now please don't close the CLE hub)

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 30):
This is not team play here it is screw the workers and line our pockets.

management gets 15% of the stock, employees get 100% of the shaft!

Quoting Wukka (Reply 32):
Your pre-emptive striking is absolute bullshit at the very best,

More Danish embassies will be burning for that one.....  flamed   duck 
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
deltamd88
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:17 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:18 am

I have travel booked with DL on the 16th and 19th of March. IF DL folds say on the 1st of March, will my tickets be accepted on another Skyteam (or any) airline? Or will I be up s**t creek? I will be leaving from ROA, the only other Skyteam airline there is NW.
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting DeltaMD88 (Reply 44):
I have travel booked with DL on the 16th and 19th of March. IF DL folds say on the 1st of March

you are safe. Negotiations will go on until March 1st, and if there is no deal, the arbitrators have up to 45 days from that time to decide whether or not to throw out the contract. They will use all 45 days. And even then, if the contract is thrown out, I don't think you would see a strike right away.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 36):
This work group you speak of was THE very last to open there wallet and give up dollars to help the company. They stalled as long as humanly possible, long after the other groups at DL had taken pay cuts.

Exactly. It wasn't like the pilot group was chomping at the bit to help out. They had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the table. Back during the contract negotiations a few years ago pilots were walking around with "United +1" stickers on their bag, a reference to the contract they felt they deserved. A contract that, in the post 9/11 world, put them where they are today. Hey guys and gals, how about taking "United +1" now.

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 38):
Go have your employer take half of what you make, cut your health benefits, and axe your retirement and come back with a smile.

If it saves my company and my job, you betcha I will.

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 22):
After all the nearly 50% pay cut, it's probably more benificial to look elswhere, and tell management to enjoy their million$.

What a convenient argument to take the spotlight off of what is the real truth: the fate of the company rests on the pilots. Stop pointing fingers everywhere else, and make a decision.

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 22):
If DL goes under, it would be horrible, but you can't blame a workgroup that has sacrificed so much already.

I sure can. As noted above, they were late to the table.

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 22):
Obviously, you support management.

It's not a black or white issue. I support the side that keeps the airline flying, people working, the economy in Georgia growing.

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 22):
All I can say is....What will management walk away with, compared to what the pilots will? If you still think that's fair, or you think that DL pilots should give more to them....well, I guess you've never flown for an airline, and can't see the games being played here.

I can see the games being played by both sides, and last time I looked "management" wasn't out there picketing. Like everything else in business, this is a negotiation. The difference is this: in the auto business, for example, the threat of a strike doesn't stop people from buying a car. However, the threat of an airline strike, stops people from buying tickets on that airline. This is why we need comprehensive RLA reform, but that's a whole different ballgame.

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 22):
Imagine your paycheck arriving 47% short, while your boss has implimented a "golden chute" to save his a$$, and not yours.

Y'all voted for that contract change, didn't you?
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 36):
This work group you speak of was THE very last to open there wallet and give up dollars to help the company. They stalled as long as humanly possible, long after the other groups at DL had taken pay cuts.

not true. Tell me, who took a pay cut prior to the pilots and how much was it? Do the research and get back to me.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13841
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 22):
After all the nearly 50% pay cut



Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 14):
The pilots took a 32% cut over a year ago, and recently took another 14% cut

If you take a 32% cut then another 14% cut, you end up with a 42% cut, not a 50% cut, not that you feel all that much better about it.

All these threads make this same kind of mistake, and it pisses me off. Pilots are supposed to have a good grasp of mathematics, no?

Quoting Cairo (Reply 20):
What I don't understand is this: why do the pilots let their emotions dictate whether they will strike or not? Why isn't it just purely an objective financial issue?



Quoting MX757 (Reply 28):
When CO's CEO Larry Kellner wanted $500 million pay and benefit reductions from CO's labor groups the first thing he did was give himself a 25% pay reduction and forego all bonuses for all of 2005. The rest of the executive group took a 20% pay reduction an no bonuses for 2005 also. And look what happened! All of the union labor groups with the exception of the F/A's agreed to the concessions the first time around! The F/A's agreed after the second time around!

What Cairo refers to as "emotion" used to be referred to as "principle".

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 39):
United 320/737 129

Let's see: UA's pilots are getting the least amount of pay, and the UA executives gave themselves 15% of the company after spending three years in bankruptcy. Pretty good illustration of what the DL pilots don't want to see happen, no?

The only weapon the pilots have is to withold their labor. If the pilots strike management will cave, mainly because they have no principles. I hope the pilots do strike, so we can bring some attention to fairness in the workplace. Lord knows Congress won't do anything about it now - they're all in the pockets of the lobbyists.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 48):
If you take a 32% cut then another 14% cut, you end up with a 42% cut, not a 50% cut, not that you feel all that much better about it.

very true. But its not the pay rates that have been cut 50%. The total value of our contract, when you include pension cuts, vacation cuts, work rule cuts, etc, has been cut over 50%.

I have never heard a pilot claim the pay rate has been cut 50%, nor have a I seen one post that here. I have seen many uninformed people read that our contract has been cut 50% and assume that means 50% of the pay rates.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: a380787, AAlaxfan, alphonze, Baidu [Spider], boscmh, gatibosgru, gennadius, Hamlet69, IPFreely, LFW, sassiciai, VirginFlyer, ZK-NBT and 277 guests