airlinebuff77
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:10 am

SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:47 pm

Which cities are Southwest hubs? Did HOU get added recently? I heard they were also taking over AA's hub in St Louis in overall number of flights.
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:53 pm

Southwest has hubs?  Wink Southwest says they don't have hubs, but I think you can call PHX, MDW, and LAS, to name a few, somewhat of a hub(s). Yes, Southwest has 67 daily flights in STL while AA mainline has around 58-59 mainline flights. I don't know if your question is disregarding AA Connection, but that is what I'm assuming.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Airlinebuff77 (Thread starter):
I heard they were also taking over AA's hub in St Louis in overall number of flights.

If you count AA connection WN is definitely behind.

There largest WN stations in order (as of Nov. 12th) are:

LAS
PHX
MDW
BWI
HOU
OAK
LAX
DAL
MCO
SAN
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:07 pm

As Stl1326 stated WN, does not have hubs at least in the traditional sense.

Quoting Airlinebuff77 (Thread starter):
Did HOU get added recently?

Yep, 34 years ago!

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
mrstl
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:58 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:21 pm

AA with AA connection and Eagle has 200+ daily flights in STL. However, if I remember correctly, WN's overall passenger market share in STL has gone up to around 30%+
 
chrisjake
Posts: 895
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:19 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:41 pm

i just noticed this the other day.....

if you go to the southwest route-map on their webite and look at all the non-stops they have out of LAS, its hard not to call that their hub! IIRC, i counted only 13 of their total destinations are NOT served nonstop from LAS.


chris
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting Airlinebuff77 (Thread starter):
Did HOU get added recently?

Is Houston Hobby a "recent" thing?

Good heavens no. Hobby was WN's second real hub after Dallas Love.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:07 pm

Southwest has no hubs per se, they have a totally different model altogether.

"They have a totally different model"

(a slight plagiarism from the classic film "Airplane")

Most of you all are too young to remember Governor Huey P. Long of Louisiana.

The constant refrain from his administration, as well as his campaign slogan, was "every man a king."

Think of Southwest that way - every station a hub.

That's not entirely true, but here's what it boils down to.

Southwest puts planes on routes as supported by O&D traffic.

Some stations support more flights than others, to more destinations.

Cities like that support a lot of connections.

Southwest doesn't schedule based on connecting traffic, those opportunities just happen.

Yes, there are published connections in their schedule at places like MAF, LBB, AMA. That doesn't mean they are hubs. But LAS, PHX, HOU, MDW, & BWI are not hubs in the truest sense of the word.

Instead of a plethora of hubs, look at WN as a big collection of robust focus cities. Using the accepted definition, that's what they really are.

And it may be a matter of semantics, really. But a true hub & spoke system's focus is the connecting traffic. That's not how WN looks at .any of their stations. They build their schedule based on the passenger loads, and the connections are secondary
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4472
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Chrisjake (Reply 5):
if you go to the southwest route-map on their webite and look at all the non-stops they have out of LAS, its hard not to call that their hub! IIRC, i counted only 13 of their total destinations are NOT served nonstop from LAS.

A designation of a hub has nothing to do with the number of flights a carrier has. A hub is passengers transfering between banks of flight at an airport to reach their final destination. Southwest does not schedule its flights to connect in banks.
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 7):
Southwest doesn't schedule based on connecting traffic, those opportunities just happen.

Which, to me at least, is identified by the unofficial term "incidental hub." Which carries a very different meaning from the grossly inefficient high cost banked hubs of the legacies which the same seem determined to take to the proverbial grave with them. Though Southwest has what might be considered incidental hubs -- where connection possibilities "just happen" -- they have nothing that even remotely resembles the banked hubs-by-design of the legacies.

ATL, in fact, began its life as Delta's hub by their observation that connecting opportunities "just happen" when an airline has numerous flights to, from and through a particular airport. As always, leave it to the legacies to take a good idea and ruin it with excesses, such as making aircraft utilization and operational efficiencies captive to the need to schedule flights to arrive and depart in droves from an airport at the same times. Beside inviting congestion and delays, facilities and staff are pushed to their limits (and often beyond) for 1-2 hours at several intervals each day, while the same facilities become virtually deserted at other daytime hours. Not how it started for DL at ATL or NW at MSP or fill in the blanks with any legacy and their hub(s) but what it was allowed to become by typical legacy management who seem forever inclined to turn a sound idea into a self-defeating monstrosity -- sort'a like the person who mistakenly assumes that if taking one aspirin every four hours has good results, taking ten every four hours will be even better, which, of course, is anything but true in the long run.

So far, at least, it seems that Southwest has no inclinations toward creating anything resembling a banked hub. None other than Southwest's current CEO has even stated clearly that they prefer as much as possible to take pax from point A to point B non-stop or at least direct (same aircraft making one or more stops in going from A to B), for at least three very simple reasons: customers prefer to go non-stop, it costs less to carry pax on one flight, and it costs considerably more to take pax between A and B on two flights.

This, hopefully will help clear up some of the confusion over semantics. The "hubs" of Southwest are indeed so worlds apart from the hubs of the legacies as to question whether the same term can correctly be used for both. When referring to "Southwest's hubs," it is only proper to add the adjective "incidental" to differentiate their operations from the very different "banked" hubs of the legacies.
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9):
A designation of a hub has nothing to do with the number of flights a carrier has. A hub is passengers transfering between banks of flight at an airport to reach their final destination. Southwest does not schedule its flights to connect in banks.

Well, in that case, I guess one could say South West's hub is the United States.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:02 pm

Just for the record; according to a report by Citigroup and confirmed by Southwest Spokesperson Linda Rutherford, Chicago Midway is expected to overtake Las Vegas as Southwest airport with the most departures by 2007.
 
commavia
Posts: 9807
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 9):
As always, leave it to the legacies to take a good idea and ruin it with excesses, such as making aircraft utilization and operational efficiencies captive to the need to schedule flights to arrive and depart in droves from an airport at the same times.

Thankfully, this is a trend that is being reversed of late in the airline industry, as more and more airlines (led by AA at ORD and then DFW) have been depeaking their largest hubs (only the largest ones that have large enough O&D bases to support it) and changing around the proverbial equation so that, as the saying goes, "the planes aren't waiting for the people, the people are waiting for the planes."
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:21 pm

When is a hub not a hub? When the airline says it's not.  Smile

Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
stlgph
Posts: 9058
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 13):
When is a hub not a hub? When the airline says it's not. Smile

of course and their published timetables say/suggest otherwise.

[Edited 2006-02-19 06:08:43]
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:24 pm

compare that route map to:




who has the bigger "hub"? (LAS hub in red)
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:51 pm

Southwest has more flights, by far. Most of those LAS destinations on HP are only once-daily, in a pair of red-eye banks.

Walk through Concourses A and B about 10 p.m. on any given evening. Madhouse doesn't begin to describe it.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: SWA Hubs

Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 16):
Southwest has more flights, by far. Most of those LAS destinations on HP are only once-daily, in a pair of red-eye banks.

Walk through Concourses A and B about 10 p.m. on any given evening. Madhouse doesn't begin to describe it.

Yep, WN does have more flights than HP (US). In LAS HP has 128 daily flights including the US flights to CLT, PHL, and PIT. If you break it down it looks like this:

93 HP mainline, 26 HP express, and 9 US mainline. HP serves 57 destinations from LAS.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)