acjflyer
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What Happens To SLC?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:17 pm

If DL ever takes a hit and has to liquidate what would become of SLC? Who would move in and take over the gates? I've heard everything from B6 moving in, to CO making it one of their hubs, even FL putting in some flights. Anyone heard anything relevant on this topic?
 
AZFLYER84
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:35 pm

I think if DL would decrease their ops at SLC, B6 would increase ops at SLC, Wn would add another 8 gates, Air Tran would start service, and Us would open another couple of gates, but there would be alot of open gates though.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:24 pm

Yeah, I'd expect UA to increase its presence given that it is the 'second' legacy after DL there really (enough flights per day from DEN to access almost anywhere easily), also given that Western used to operate duel hubs in both SLC and DEN. There is definately a lot of business to be had here.

CO would do well given that it is week in the west, as is AA.

As for Jetblue... YES highly likely, given the background of their CEO already having established operations in SLC before. He's very well connected in that city and I'm sure he'd be able to win a lot of business contracts from companies that are headquatered there, IF, and ONLY IF, he had a sizeable network. In other words, as long as the product is good enough to meet their needs, he's already first in line for the corporate contracts.

So my bet would be Jetblue, CO and UA.
 
TedEx
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:32 am

I wonder what OO's role would be like in SLC with a DL liqudation.
 
luv2fly
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:47 am

My thoughts is it would become a focus city for a couple of airlines and would benifit from lower fares due to increase in carriers offering service now.

F9 I could see as first to build up flights.
B6 also would increase flights.
CO I could see building up slightly.
WN slight increase
US slight increase
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NWDC10
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:05 am

WN would probably add alot of flights and make it a sizeable operation. Robert NWDC10
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:30 am

In the event of Delta going bye-bye, it seems highly likely that Southwest would ramp up their presence at SLC, if in no other way by adding frequencies to fill the void left by DL's demise in markets currently served by WN. Can also see the possibility of SLC becoming more prominent as a second-tier focus city for WN.

SLC post-Delta would also seem to potentially be a natural for JetBlue to seriously consider as a focus-city or incidental (non-banked) western hub.

And virtually guaranteed, if/when DL is gone, Alaska would start SEA-SLC-SEA as soon as possible at least 3-4 times daily with 737 and/or MD80 service and, more than likely, PDX-SLC-PDX, with mainline or Horizon CR7 (or some combination thereof) service 2-3 times daily. Might even see BOI-SLC-BOI 1-2 times daily by Horizon with DH4 or CR7.

The significant number of pax who presently use SLC as nothing more than a connecting point would be quickly absorbed by other airlines who can take them from the same point A to the same point B city-pair combinations, albeit through different hub cities.
 
NWDC10
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:44 am

With WN adding flights in SLC if DL goes CH7, WN would be the largest/dominant carrier in SLC. Robert NWDC10
 
AV8AJET
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting NWDC10 (Reply 7):
With WN adding flights in SLC if DL goes CH7, WN would be the largest/dominant carrier in SLC. Robert NWDC10

Not quite, OO could continue outta of SLC with their own flights branded under OO. They wouldn't have the same amount of flights but they would still dominate the SLC market and airport.
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
COERJ145
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 8):
Not quite, OO could continue outta of SLC with their own flights branded under OO. They wouldn't have the same amount of flights but they would still dominate the SLC market and airport.

I was thinking the same thing, but remember what happened the last time a carrier tried CRJ ops under their own name?(aka Indy Air) They crashed and burned, OO isn't that stupid.
 
AV8AJET
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 9):
I was thinking the same thing, but remember what happened the last time a carrier tried CRJ ops under their own name?(aka Indy Air) They crashed and burned, OO isn't that stupid.

True however I would imagine they would have very little competition on certain routes and would probably try to fly more United Express flying outta SLC. I don't see OO trying the same thing as Indy Air (buying Airbus etc.) although my strong opinion is if UA & US can make it out of bankrupcy as long as they were in, then DL going under isn't likely. Just my 0.02 cents.
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
VgnAtl747
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 8):
Not quite, OO could continue outta of SLC with their own flights branded under OO. They wouldn't have the same amount of flights but they would still dominate the SLC market and airport.

Don't forget that OO has no res system or anything. Flying under DL, they're in a similar position as OH. It would take a lot of work to operate independently, as there is no reservations infastructure at all, it all goes through DL.

It's certainly possible, but it would be an awful lot of work. I think it would be more likley that another carrier would acquire OO simply for their equipment and presence at SLC, and have them continue to operate it, just under another name.

I know OO isn't wholely owned- do they currently fly for anyone other than DL??
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
Humberside
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 11):
I know OO isn't wholely owned- do they currently fly for anyone other than DL??

UA I think
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VgnAtl747
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 12):
UA I think

You may be right-

OO works ground for UA at my airport, but the actual flight services are by Colgan Air (not sure what their airline code is). Before Colgan, they were operated by Mesa, still with OO ground though...
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
acjflyer
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 12):
UA I think

OO does indeed operate for UA with flights through DEN,ORD,SFO,and LAX.

http://www.skywest.com/routemaps/rm_img/united_72.gif
 
Lono
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:17 am

I think if that were to happen that AS would step in..... they have kicked DL butt since the WA merger... no reason for them to stop now... I have to think that they are planning more "Kick DL Butt" strategy anyway... DL has shown they cannot defend against AS superior service levels...
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ramprat74
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 2):
Yeah, I'd expect UA to increase its presence given that it is the 'second' legacy after DL there really (enough flights per day from DEN to access almost anywhere easily), also given that Western used to operate duel hubs in both SLC and DEN. There is definately a lot of business to be had here.

We (UA) have been cutting back mainline in SLC the last few years. About 80% of our flying into SLC is Express. Western never had SLC and DEN as hubs at the same time. I believe SLC became a hub in 1983/1984.
 
N766UA
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:06 am

Why are we so sure of B6 increasing service alot? They only had 1 gate when I was there 2 months ago... has that changed lately?
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N1120A
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 17):
Why are we so sure of B6 increasing service alot? They only had 1 gate when I was there 2 months ago... has that changed lately?

It has to do with Neelman's Mormon background and ties to the city. In fact, he got into trouble for opening SLC before SYR (or was it ROC) and B6's call center is in SLC.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
N175UA744
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:49 am

I hope DL works things out. I live near Salt Lake, and losing a major player like Delta would be a blow. And plus, its that much less spotting I would be able to do:P
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 16):
Western never had SLC and DEN as hubs at the same time. I believe SLC became a hub in 1983/1984.

Neither were hubs, but both were focus cities.
SLC with services to the big cities as well as up thru Eastern Idaho,Wyoming,and Montana.
DEN had services to big sities then into South Dakota,Wyoming, and Billings.
Bith served Western in its own way.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
N766UA
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:37 am

oooo I didn't know they had a call center etc. in SLC.
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 20):
Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 16):
Western never had SLC and DEN as hubs at the same time. I believe SLC became a hub in 1983/1984.

Neither were hubs, but both were focus cities.

According to Western route maps in my timetables collection...

1979-1981: both SLC and DEN could be considered as major focus cities for Western, perhaps even small hubs

1982: SLC was clearly becoming a major hub for Western, serving 26 destinations non-stop while DEN had shrunk to only 9 destinations served non-stop

1984: SLC was clearly Western's major hub with no less than 46 cities served non-stop; DEN had been reduced to only 2 non-stop routes, YYC and the spoke to the SLC hub. LAX had been established as a second hub or major focus city with non-stop flights to 14 cities in the western U.S. plus HNL, YYC, YVR and 6 Mexico destinations: MZT, GDL, PVR, ZIH, MEX and ACA.

1986: Virtually identical to 1984 for mainline; Western had added Skwest as a "Western Express" regional partner at SLC at some point after 1984, with service to several smaller cities not previously served by Western.

1987: Western merged into Delta who for about 2 years kept Western's SLC, DEN and LAX operations much the same as 1984-86 except under the Delta banner; as I recall, Western's aircraft were re-painted into full Delta liveries in what seemed like no more than a few months.
 
goCOgo
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
B6's call center is in SLC.

I thought the B6 call center was in their call center employees' homes. Is this reservations only, or are all of their home-based call center employees in and around SCL?

Anyway, F9 and B6 and everyone elso could increase, but if CO had the capital avalable to pick up the gates and enough aircraft, they could replace DL there. Unfortuantely, I don't know if they could get that much money.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
SeaTran
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:41 am

I think AirTran would most assuredly step in with service.
 
BigJimFX
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:42 am

Don't worry.... The Mormans will think of something!
I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
 
piercey
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:59 am

Continental. They could pick up a western hub with ease and, if the CLE shut down happens (at which point my life will suck  Sad ) they'd, in theory, have more resorces at SLCs disposal.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
panam330
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:22 am

If DL shut down, opportunity would be breaking down F9's door, at least in my opinion.
 
L1329II
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
It has to do with Neelman's Mormon background and ties to the city. In fact, he got into trouble for opening SLC before SYR (or was it ROC) and B6's call center is in SLC.

Do you have any basis other than assumptions on this one? There is no "call center" in SLC. In fact I read somewhere (no i cant find it) that some B6 SLC operations are being moved (or have been moved) to NYC. All "call center" staff work from home through the Internet back to B6 headquarters.

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 25):
Don't worry.... The Mormans will think of something!

The LDS Church - in correct terminology - is the largest employer in the state of Utah also just about every 4 - 8 weeks there are approx 5000 - 6000 LDS missionaries that travel in and out of SLC. SLC is very important to the church.

If you have to be cynical please at least learn how to spell Mormon correctly.  Wink
"By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"
 
peachair
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:30 pm

Guy's,

Lets stop already. All of this Moday morning quarterbacking. I am so tired of hearing all of this SH**.

Most of you all don't have enough time invested in this business to make these assumptions. Have some respect for the men and women who have busted their asses for MANY years for this business. Transferred/ uprooted their families and changed their lives all for the belief in their airline (DL/NW/CO/AA/UA etc..)

Yes this is a FORUM, and we sit here at our computers and revel in the dynamics of this industry. "What would happen if.....".

How many of you stop to consider the human aspect of what is going on? Do you not know that there are intelligent men and women who give 110% of their working lives trying to do whatever it takes to make DL/NW and the rest of the "legacy" carriers successful? These people have families and bills to pay just like you.

Most of us have taken a 20% paycut over the last 2 years. MANY talented DL/NW people are now GONE - because they dont want to stick around for the next cut.

No doubt things are bad. We are embarking on many changes that will shape the future of our industry. Those of us who have been here for 20+ years are trying hard to keep people motivated and to reassure them that there is a future for them, not knowing whether there is or not.

Almost EVERYBODY at Delta (my company) is trying to do their job with the same caring effort they have always given, not knowing whether or not they will have a job tomorrow. Worrying about their kids, their future, their retirement -whether they can even picture their lves without DL. Many of you who post on this forum - how old are you? Can you picture your life at the age of 40, still working at B6? FL? Is your job a "career" job? .

Yes, we are disappointed in the pilots - but this isn't easy for them either. You try taking a 50% pay cut. They are mad -but they will not let this company fold.

Our industry is no longer the same. I hate seeing what has happened to our business, to our industry. I've said it before, I'll say it again. B6/FL it can happen to you too, and for a select number of airlines - it WILL happen to you. WN? they just keep rollin'. Why - I don't know...they just do. They are the ONLY airline in the USA that have all of us beat, and they do it consistently.

I can't speak for NW. But I know DL will get past this. We have to.

Peachair
 
skymileman
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:22 pm

I think if DL went away, a lot of cities who have service from SLC would never see a replacement for that service. For example, cities in MT would never receive new service. The low-costers really only seem interested in big markets.
 
BigJimFX
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:31 pm

Quoting L1329II (Reply 28):
If you have to be cynical please at least learn how to spell Mormon correctly

My Wife-To-Be would probably kill me for that. She's a Mormon! Silly

All cynicism aside, I think you proved my point for me. There are a large number of people coming in and out of the city JUST for LDS stuff. At leaset enough for a Mini-Hub.
I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: What Happens To SLC?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting PeachAir (Reply 29):
WN? they just keep rollin'. Why - I don't know...they just do. They are the ONLY airline in the USA that have all of us beat, and they do it consistently.

It ain't magic, and it isn't like they "just do" because of some mystical 34-year string of nothing but good luck. Sure, you have to be lucky to be good, but you also have to be good to be lucky.

Quoting PeachAir (Reply 29):
Do you not know that there are intelligent men and women who give 110% of their working lives trying to do whatever it takes to make DL/NW and the rest of the "legacy" carriers successful?

With all due respect, it may be that WN "just keep rollin' " because their men and women do the same, but with one difference that makes all the difference. It's called common sense plus a sound premise and credible leadership directing their efforts. They may not be the most intelligent men and women in the airline industry (maybe they are--I don't claim to know) but I'll take wisdom, common sense, and hard work devoted to a sound premise over mere intelligence and hard work every time. Even off-the-charts intelligence and 150% effort do not ensure success when the premise to which such people are giving their "all" is seriously flawed and credible leadership at the top is conspicuous by its absence -- as with the U.S. legacy airlines. But that is another topic, so I'll sign off here.

[Edited 2006-02-20 01:27:33]