Pe@rson
Topic Author
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There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:32 am

It never ceases to amaze me how many people herein say 'free meal' or 'free drinks' or free whatever. Nothing is free. As Stelios Haji-Ioannou totally rightly said:

'The so-called freebies that other airlines offer aren't freebies at all. They're a rip-off. I look at it like this. If someone came up to me with a plastic tray of airline food and said, "Will you give me a tenner for this shit?" I would say "no" . There's no such thing as a free lunch so we don't pretend to provide one.'

Why do so many A.netters say it's all free? It's not.

Similarly, nearly all UK supermarkets provide inclusive - but not free - carrier bags, yet most people think they're free.

[Edited 2006-02-19 16:50:34]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
nikeshashar
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:38 am

If you turn your views around you can see that no one is going to run a business at a loss. If you are running an airline you are not going to give anything away with recovering your cost. Your airline ticket price does not include just the direct costs but all the indirect costs. Thats what brings load factors and seat revenue per mile into play in Airline Accounting.

I understand your point in you saying that people call it free but they generally do not look at it in a way that the airline will calculate everything it is paying for and then adjust ticket prices according to that. The only thing an airline is not allowed to make a profit on is TAX and FUEL SURCHARGES. Those are pre-determined.
 
ozvirginuk
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
It never ceases to amaze me how many people herein say 'free meal' or 'free drinks'

But Pe@rson, didn't you know that "free meal" and "free alcohol" is the most improtant thing about flying .......  stirthepot 

I jest.....

Oz
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Ozvirginuk (Reply 2):
But Pe@rson, didn't you know that "free meal" and "free alcohol" is the most improtant thing about flying .......

LOL.  Wink

It's just annoying when I read 'free X' all the time. Nothing's free.  Smile
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ozvirginuk
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 3):
It's just annoying when I read 'free X' all the time. Nothing's free. Smile

Try explaining that to the thousand of Y class pax who do nothing but complain about declining service standards. Don't hear them complaining about declining proces.....

Pe@rson, you have hit on one of my personal favourite bugbears.......

Oz
 
sabenapilot
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:52 am

How come some airlines still try to make us believe they can give away free flights then???

Where's the hidden rip off in that case, Pe@rson?

 stirthepot 
 
ozvirginuk
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 5):
How come some airlines still try to make us believe they can give away free flights then???

Where's the hidden rip off in that case, Pe@rson?

Some airlines do give away free flights. The costs are offset by those pax paying high yielding fares. Of which there are loads....
 
commavia
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:14 am

To be honest, I much prefer the system we have now in the United States -- the growing trend is that the "free" food of yesteryear is gone, replaced with either buy-on-board products or, more commonly, a smile from the gate agent and a general boarding area announcement that "we welcome you to buy food and bring it onboard." Personally, the old "free" stuff was crappy 9 times out of 10 anyway, so I'd much prefer to pay less (which we in America decidedly are now a days) and pick up a little pizza or McDonalds at the airport.
 
Orion737
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:19 am

yes but you Americans dont have to pay £1.50 for a scoldingly hot cup of dishwater. You still get a 'tea or coke' on the house.

Our carriers, some full service, have even taken away that.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
You still get a 'tea or coke' on the house.

 banghead  'On the house' implies it's free - which it isn't.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ozvirginuk
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
To be honest, I much prefer the system we have now in the United States -- the growing trend is that the "free" food of yesteryear is gone, replaced with either buy-on-board products or, more commonly, a smile from the gate agent and a general boarding area announcement that "we welcome you to buy food and bring it onboard." Personally, the old "free" stuff was crappy 9 times out of 10 anyway, so I'd much prefer to pay less (which we in America decidedly are now a days) and pick up a little pizza or McDonalds at the airport.

Got to agree with you there Commavia. If you pay less, AND have to option to bring what YOU want to eat on board, then it's great. Couple that with lower fares, and everyone's happy....

Aren't they???
 
Sabena 690
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 9):
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
You still get a 'tea or coke' on the house.

 banghead  'On the house' implies it's free - which it isn't.

Not that I agree with your Ryanair views, Pearson, but you got the right emoticon there concerning Orion's reply and his "coffee on the house":  banghead 

Some people will never get it...

Frederic
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Sabena 690 (Reply 11):
Not that I agree with your Ryanair views, Pearson

I also don't understand why people keep bringing my views of Ryanair into completely unrelated threads. Most odd.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Leskova
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
I also don't understand why people keep bringing my views of Ryanair into completely unrelated threads. Most odd.

As soon as I see a non-Ryanair-related thread by you, I'll agree with you...  Wink

Nonetheless: true, there is no "free lunch" - just as much as there is no free coffee or coke or whatever.

But in the end it comes down to choice: some people like booking all-inclusive holidays, others book breakfast-only or without any meals... they pay the price for it, accept it - and that's it.

There's really no need to constantly keep rehashing the same stuff over and over... yes, LCCs offer lower fares but don't include anything into the fare - while non-LCCs include some extras into the fare but, consequently, have a higher fare.

If I'm willing to pay €100 more for a flight from FRA to LHR than I'd be paying from HHN to LTN (or STN, or whatever), then that's my choice.

If someone else isn't willing to pay that amount extra, then that's his or her choice.

I can live with that... and it's certainly not something that I spend more than about 5 seconds per month thinking about... at least unless I come accross threads like this one...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 13):
As soon as I see a non-Ryanair-related thread by you, I'll agree with you...

And this is?  sarcastic 

Quoting Leskova (Reply 13):
But in the end it comes down to choice

Of course. But the problem still remains: a lot of people wrongly believe that it's all free.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Leskova
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Nikeshashar (Reply 1):
The only thing an airline is not allowed to make a profit on is TAX and FUEL SURCHARGES. Those are pre-determined.

Since when are Fuel Surcharges pre-determined?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
luv2fly
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 13):
As soon as I see a non-Ryanair-related thread by you, I'll agree with you...

Nonetheless: true, there is no "free lunch" - just as much as there is no free coffee or coke or whatever.

But in the end it comes down to choice: some people like booking all-inclusive holidays, others book breakfast-only or without any meals... they pay the price for it, accept it - and that's it.

There's really no need to constantly keep rehashing the same stuff over and over... yes, LCCs offer lower fares but don't include anything into the fare - while non-LCCs include some extras into the fare but, consequently, have a higher fare.

If I'm willing to pay €100 more for a flight from FRA to LHR than I'd be paying from HHN to LTN (or STN, or whatever), then that's my choice.

If someone else isn't willing to pay that amount extra, then that's his or her choice.

I can live with that... and it's certainly not something that I spend more than about 5 seconds per month thinking about... at least unless I come accross threads like this one...

Regards,
Frank

Frank I have to agree with you 110%. It is after all, all about having a choice. Not everything needs to be reduced to the lowest denominator. It is like retail they are different sectors that cater to defferent cliental.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Leskova
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 14):
And this is?

Oh please - the only reason why you quoted Stelios was that you couldn't find a quote from O'Leary saying the same thing...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ltbewr
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:46 am

Inclusive is probably the more correct term. When airlines were still largely regulated as to fares, airlines used food and beverage services as selling points to encourage customers to use their airline over competitors. As competition shifted to price, something had to give to compensate, so hence he delcine or end of 'free' or included items such as food, meals, snacks, pillows, blankets, IFE and so on. In the past those costs could be averaged out, but with the terrible financial situations of many airlines, things have permanently changed.
 
Kangar
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:58 am

So what if folks mistakenly believe they're getting something for free. Ignorance can be bliss, they're probably a lot happier than folks who know the terrible truth.
If some folks misstating the facts on something as small as this gets to you, you're in for a very frustrating life.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
yes but you Americans dont have to pay £1.50 for a scoldingly hot cup of dishwater.

Oh dear god.  tapedshut 

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
commavia
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
yes but you Americans dont have to pay £1.50 for a scoldingly hot cup of dishwater. You still get a 'tea or coke' on the house.

This is true. I can't think of a single U.S. carrier that charges for non-alcoholic drinks. American Eagle recently tested the concept on its shorter LAX hub flights to regional California destinations. The "test" was dropped within a month because people were so infuriated by it. I recently flew EasyJet LGW-AMS-LGW and I couldn't believe that people were paying several dollars for a tiny (not even full size) can of Coke or juice box of apple juice.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:21 am

If we may not say it is free any more, than you may not compare fares of FR or other cattle transport companies with the ones of legacy carriers. Because it is a different deal. One airline doesn't give you anything but an airport that is barely within 200 miles of the city they advertise, others give you a convenient airport and infrastructure, peanuts and drinks, and sometimes more than just that.

It is a different animal, so we would have to set ground rules for comparison: Never compare FR to any other airline, because it is a cattle transportation company, not an airline. Never compare fares of U2 to LH because it is a different deal. And never compare free or not free drinks because it is a different deal as well. Or just drop those childish discussions and let people get free drinks if they want, others may have included drinks, on some airlines they can just dream of drinks. Whatever. No need to worry...

Just a lame attempt to advertise the poor service of FR and the others out there...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
whitehatter
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
yes but you Americans dont have to pay £1.50 for a scoldingly hot cup of dishwater. You still get a 'tea or coke' on the house.

Our carriers, some full service, have even taken away that.

and who pays for that? The Free Coke Fairy out of the goodness of its heart?

Here's a clue. The airline charges for it as part of the ticket. Unless someone found a magic Free Coke Tree planted in the middle of Heathrow recently...
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
AirlineAV8tr
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:28 am

Continental Airlines- Complimentary meals at meal times. ALWAYS

Continental Airlines- Work Hard, Fly Right!
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
ozvirginuk
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 23):
and who pays for that? The Free Coke Fairy out of the goodness of its heart?

Here's a clue. The airline charges for it as part of the ticket. Unless someone found a magic Free Coke Tree planted in the middle of Heathrow recently...

 rotfl 

That must be how the bankruptcy ridden US carrier stock their flights....
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 17):
Oh please - the only reason why you quoted Stelios was that you couldn't find a quote from O'Leary saying the same thing...

I can assure you that I wouldn't.

I just find it most odd that people think it's free - when it's not.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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mariner
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:39 am

Where does it stop?

It used to be - in Japan - that they would quote a fare for the bullet train, but when you came to pay it was double the quote.

The fare they had quoted was the cost of riding on the train. Then you had to pay for the seat - which was the same price as the "fare" - so the ticket was double the quote.

We can only hope that the pricing system has changed - or that Mr. O'Leary does not visit Japan.

 Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 24):
Complimentary meals at meal times

Which is not free.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ozvirginuk
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 28):
Which is not free.

I guess some people don't get the point...

Oz
 
egmcman
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
It never ceases to amaze me how many people herein say 'free meal' or 'free drinks' or free whatever. Nothing is free. As Stelios Haji-Ioannou totally rightly said:

'The so-called freebies that other airlines offer aren't freebies at all. They're a rip-off. I look at it like this. If someone came up to me with a plastic tray of airline food and said, "Will you give me a tenner for this shit?" I would say "no" . There's no such thing as a free lunch so we don't pretend to provide one.'

 checkmark 

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
yes but you Americans dont have to pay £1.50 for a scoldingly hot cup of dishwater. You still get a 'tea or coke' on the house.

Refills I think you will find or at least that was the case when I was in Orlando. Hot drinks in the US aren't that hot because of the legal implications of a person spilling a hot drink. I tried to get it through to you in the BD topic but you still can't accept it.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 17):
Oh please - the only reason why you quoted Stelios was that you couldn't find a quote from O'Leary saying the same thing...

It's me possibly me saying it about BD's fares. Here's a MOL quote if you like 'No, we shouldn't give you a bloody cup of coffee. We only charge 19 euros for the ticket'
 
legacy135
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:30 am

I never called it "free" but inclusive. I prefer to fly the airlines with "inclusive" customer service. If I go to a restaurant I prefer the one with inclusive service as well. Some people prefer the cantine or McDonalds. I go to McDonalds as well sometimes, but to enjoy is in a place, fork and knive are inclusive and you won't need to drink from plastic or paper cups. It's a question how you live. Some people buy at Harrods, some at Marks&Spencer and some at Woolworth.

Companies as EasyJet, FlyBE or Helvetic could come into my evaluation as well, as those companies have high operational standarts. Unfortunately high praised Ryanair never. Although cheap, this company is a rip of as they don't care at all. Furthermore I have a good knowledge of their operational standarts. They are "to satisfy authorities" but far away from a real "Safety Culture".

Cheers
Legacy135  Wink
 
AirlineAV8tr
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 28):
Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 24):
Complimentary meals at meal times

Which is not free



Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 31):
I never called it "free" but inclusive. I prefer to fly the airlines with "inclusive" customer service

OK, I'll re-phrase it. "CO, 'inclusive' meals at meal time. Always."
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:34 am

Totally inacurrate, but say a meal cost the airline $2 each. If the airline carried 40 million passengers per year, that'd be $80 million per year - just on crappy meals.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
If someone came up to me with a plastic tray of airline food and said, "Will you give me a tenner for this s***?" I would say "no" .

You have anwered a rhetorial question once raised by Herb Kelleher (patriarch of Southwest/WN) to make a point in the manner he assumed it would be answered! The actual wording of the question, as posed by Herb, was something like "sure I can give you lunch, but will you pay me $10.00 more?"

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 24):
Continental Airlines- Complimentary meals at meal times. ALWAYS

Always? Even on the 12 noon (or thereabout) IAH-AUS and EWR-BOS flights?

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 14):
Of course. But the problem still remains: a lot of people wrongly believe that it's all free.

"Complimentary" or "inclusive" are not free at all--of course. Beverage and snack/meal service that is not buy-on-board is either 1) paid for by a relative handful of pax who pay coach fares that are typically 2-10 times higher than those paid by the masses on the same flight in the same Y cabin who paid loss-leader fares or 2) paid for by the airline's (hopefully) positive margin between revenue and costs.

Even if Coca Cola (or Pepsi if you prefer) and SKy Chef catering were to be so generous as to provide their products for no charge to airlines, their costs would be passed on to someone else to be paid (and potentially so on and so on...) until someone was ultimately made to pay for the costs of their "free" products. In the ultimate sense, nothing could be more absurdly false than to insist that any airline offers free meals, or even beverages.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 34):
"Complimentary" or "inclusive" are not free at all--of course

Indeed. By 'inclusive,' I meant included within the price, i.e. that you've indirectly paid for it.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
It never ceases to amaze me how many people herein say 'free meal' or 'free drinks' or free whatever. Nothing is free. As Stelios Haji-Ioannou totally rightly said:

'The so-called freebies that other airlines offer aren't freebies at all. They're a rip-off. I look at it like this. If someone came up to me with a plastic tray of airline food and said, "Will you give me a tenner for this shit?" I would say "no" . There's no such thing as a free lunch so we don't pretend to provide one.'

Why do so many A.netters say it's all free? It's not.

Similarly, nearly all UK supermarkets provide inclusive - but not free - carrier bags, yet most people think they're free.

I learned an acronym in micro-economics: TANSTAAFL - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch".

 Smile

Russell
Things aren't always as they seem
 
satx
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:22 am

I actually like CO having meals. No,they're not free and they're not even good meals, but they're just like any other airline meal and it's probably great for when you have to rush to catch your flight and you can't manage to buy your own meal at the airport.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:27 am

Don't get me wrong, folks: I don't care if an airline provides meals or not (OK, I expect it on long-haul flights). It's just frustrating when people keep referring to them as free, when they're not.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
andessmf
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
yes but you Americans dont have to pay £1.50 for a scoldingly hot cup of dishwater

No, you pay $5 at you local Starbucks!!

But anyway, sometimes I go to eat at McDonalds, sometimes I pay (by choice) over $150 to wine, dine and then ** the wife. But like people say, its only a matter of choice.

To me, I get really price sensitive over a ticket if I am going on vacation, since the getting there is just not as important as the money I spend once I'm there.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 39):
sometimes I pay (by choice) over $150 to wine, dine and then ** the wife.

I had a fair idea what you were implying, until I saw you only put two **. Hmm.  Wink
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
SAS330
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
To be honest, I much prefer the system we have now in the United States -- the growing trend is that the "free" food of yesteryear is gone, replaced with either buy-on-board products or, more commonly, a smile from the gate agent and a general boarding area announcement that "we welcome you to buy food and bring it onboard." Personally, the old "free" stuff was crappy 9 times out of 10 anyway, so I'd much prefer to pay less (which we in America decidedly are now a days) and pick up a little pizza or McDonalds at the airport.

Excactly, this is our US Culture. Lunch and dinner from Mc Donalds, Pizza Hut, Burger King etc... So tell me what is so different between the crappy stuff at the airport or on bord? I am going so sick of this bad provided quality. Wished we could have european or asian standards.
 
andessmf
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RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting SAS330 (Reply 41):

The great part about living in the developed world is the ability to really complain about inane crap. If you are a business traveller, flying becomes a great part of your life and I completely understand the requirement to have great service. But for most people travelling by air is maybe 3 trips a year. Frankly, I travel so little by airplane that I really enjoy the fact I'm flying. I do't particularly care about how I do it. I guess I'm a flying purist. After all, some Ferrari purist believe that an A/C system for a $200,000 (the F40) car is for sissies.

So you want European or Asian standards, then pay for them. I come from and visit third world countries. Everytime I come back home I realize that I am lucky to be in a place where I have plenty of choices to make regarding how I spend my money. If I don't like something, I DONT return, instead of complaining all over the place how terrible it was. Everybody can do whatever their means allow them to. When I got married 9 years ago I couldn't dream of the things I can do now, and nine years from now I wish to look back and say the same thing.

For Gods sake people, now you got me all ranting...lets all just enjoy flying. After all, the best food to eat at LAX is at the In'n'Out. Will be there when my sister gets married in September.
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
Similarly, nearly all UK supermarkets provide inclusive - but not free - carrier bags, yet most people think they're free.

An extremely poor example to try to illustrate a possibly valid point. Why? Well try getting a 'free' airline meal without buying an airline ticket. Not possible. Now walk into a supermarket that you have never ever bought anything in, pick up a carrier bag, buy nothing and walk out. You have not stolen the bag because they are provided 'free'. Clearly the bag is not 'inclusive' because you have not spent anything. So if it really is not 'free' and cannot be 'inclusive' what is it? Since the supermarket will not charge any of its other customers anything more to recover the cost of the bag you took, its cost will wash straight through to the supermarket's bottom line. Unless the supermarket reduces the dividend it pays to its shareholders it is clear that the supermarket has paid for the bag and equally clear that it was free to you.

Sorry to be so pedantic but it is going to get worse!

These two guys go to a supermarket together. They both want to buy a loaf of bread. The type they both prefer is being promoted as 'buy one, get one free'. The first guy puts two loafs in his supermarket basket and pays for just one at the checkout. The second guy, whose family only eats small quantaties of bread and has no room in his freezer for a loaf, puts one loaf in his supermarket basket and pays for one at the checkout. Now who has paid for the first guy's second loaf. Since it is the supermarket's bottom line that has benefitted from the second guy not taking the second loaf to which he is entitled it is clear that it is the supermarket's bottom line that must carry the cost of the supermarket purchasing that second loaf that the first guy did not have to pay for.

Now when these same two guys decided to travel on an airline together and paid exactly the same for their tickets and . . . Well, you know the rest of the story, don't you? The second guy was neither hungry or thirsty and the F/A did not force feed him. But the difference here is the food. The airline paid for it and then had to chuck it away. But the drink . . . Well that certainly got consumed at a later time. So the food was 'inclsive'. But because the drink was not consumed by the second guy, the airline did not have to buy new inventory to replace it and the non-consumption of the drink therefore washed through to the airline's bottom line profit. Hence the drink consumed by the first guy was not 'inclusive' but 'free' because the airline's bottom line would have been higher if he had not accepted and then drunk it.

So there is such a thing as a free lunch - but probably not on an airliner! But drink is another matter!
 
nubes
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:45 am

RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:35 am

In Holland we say: (roughly translated) Only the sun comes up for free..
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 38):
It's just frustrating when people keep referring to them as free, when they're not.

Why is it frustrating? Because on your airline nothing is free/complimentary/included or what? What exactly is so frustrating when people say that? That their perception suggests that things are free which you have to pay for on FR?

Let people say what they want...

And then, does the term 'free' not come from 'free of charge'? So it could mean included, as well as in fact free...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
EWROwznj00
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:31 am

RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:58 pm

Pearson, forgive my slowness tonight, for my brain is fried from an accounting project. But, I'm not sure I'm getting your point. You are correct when you say it's not free; in reality, it's included in the price. So what exactly are you trying to say? Are you wondering why people say things such as meals and drinks are free, when in reality it's been paid for by the price of the ticket?
Yes, there is a typo in my username. No need to point it out.
 
SongStar
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:22 pm

I'm looking around...trying to find the proverbial dead horse you all keep beating...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...this thread is hurting my head..."free" "inclusive"....ugh...yes, someone, somewhere has paid for the meal, coke, tea, pretzels...whatever...but to the "average" passenger the perception is that it is Free...who cares...seriously...the only thing really free...my charming disposition....oh wait...i think it's actually inclusive...someone, somewhere...has paid for that too  Smile  Smile
 
aaden
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:48 pm

Quoting Kangar (Reply 19):
So what if folks mistakenly believe they're getting something for free. Ignorance can be bliss, they're probably a lot happier than folks who know the terrible truth.
If some folks misstating the facts on something as small as this gets to you, you're in for a very frustrating life.



so true

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 42):
But for most people travelling by air is maybe 3 trips a year. Frankly, I travel so little by airplane that I really enjoy the fact I'm flying. I do't particularly care about how I do it. I guess I'm a flying purist

thats me
 
g4resagent
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 21):
I can't think of a single U.S. carrier that charges for non-alcoholic drinks.

Allegiant is one. We charged for everything: alcohol ($5), Pepsi products ($2/can), snacks ($1-3), and SoBe and Starbucks Frappuccino ($4).

[Edited 2006-02-20 07:21:39]

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