juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:26 am

Qantas does not want to share LAX-SYD with Singapore Airlines.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...self/2006/02/19/1140283949283.html
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
Qantas does not want to share LAX-SYD with Singapore Airlines.

There is a shocker...UA wants it to them selfs too! Wait till AC starts!

-m

 airplane 
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Well, they already don't have it to themselves, but that is a side issue. United operates the route and Air Canada will as well starting next year.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:37 am

Australia is almost always among the most expensive tickets from SAT. Take a look at the lowest priced, most restricted tickets from SAT over the next few months from Sabre...

$133.00 West Palm Beach, FL
$163.00 Chicago, IL - all
$163.00 Orlando, FL
$171.00 Washington, DC - all
$173.00 El Paso, TX
$173.00 Phoenix, AZ
$181.00 Buffalo, NY
$203.00 Albuquerque, NM
$203.00 Boise, ID
$203.00 Las Vegas, NV
$203.00 Los Angeles, CA
$203.00 Spokane, WA
$209.00 Albany, NY
$213.00 Denver, CO
$213.00 San Francisco, CA
$225.00 Baton Rouge, LA
$231.50 New York, NY - all
$245.00 Cleveland, OH
$263.00 Columbus, OH
$284.00 Paris, France - all
$299.00 Aspen, CO
$299.00 Vail, CO
$306.00 Guadalajara, Mexico
$325.00 Atlanta, GA
$329.00 San Jose del Cabo, Mexico
$330.00 Calgary, Canada
$331.00 Geneva, Switzerland
$331.00 Zurich, Switzerland
$353.00 Montego Bay, Jamaica
$359.00 Acapulco, Mexico
$359.00 Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
$371.00 Rochester, NY
$385.00 Amsterdam, Netherlands
$389.00 Stockholm, Sweden
$403.60 Anchorage, AK
$416.00 Copenhagan, Denmark
$418.00 Berlin, Germany
$418.00 Munich, Germany
$420.00 Edinburgh, Scotland
$438.00 Nassau, Bahamas
$441.00 Cheyenne, WY
$449.00 Burlington, VT
$450.00 Milan, Italy
$450.00 Rome, Italy
$455.00 Nice, France
$459.00 Butte, MT
$463.00 San Juan, Puerto Rico
$482.00 Istanbul, Turkey
$483.00 Dublin, Ireland
$488.00 Athens, Greece
$497.60 Maui, HI
$501.00 Telluride, CO
$504.00 Portland, ME
$537.60 Honolulu, HI
$630.60 Fairbanks, AK
$654.00 Tokyo, Japan
$671.71 Quebec, Canada
$680.00 Shanghai, China
$684.00 Caracas, Venezuela
$711.00 Bangkok, Thailand
$723.00 Taipei, Taiwan
$726.00 Hong Kong, HK
$745.00 Lima, Peru
$755.00 Singapore, SG
$790.00 Tel Aviv, Israel
$863.00 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
$865.00 Buenos Aires, Argentina
$878.00 Cairo, Egypt
$885.00 Jakarta, Indonesia
$907.00 Seoul, South Korea
$910.00 Abu Dhabi, Uae
$934.00 La Paz, Bolivia
$954.00 Santiago, Chile
$969.00 Bangalore, India
$1007.00 Montevideo, Uruguay
$1163.00 Sydney, Australia
$1175.00 Melbourne, Australia

$1211.00 Cape Town, South Africa
$1294.00 Christchurch, New Zealand
$1396.00 Nairobi, Kenya


Good luck if they want my business. Then again, if they fly the A380 to the US first, and the seat pitch is decent, then maybe I'll fly them at some point.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:52 am

Amazingly they (Qantas) didn't mention about AC which is pretty cool. I guess AC isn't much of a threat to QF unless I'm mistaken. I wonder if SQ will codeshare on AC's flight if they can't get access to SYD-LAX routing?.
 
twolz2rn
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:03 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:53 am

well no duh they want it to themselves!

until UA fixes their IFE, Qantas is my choice
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:05 am

AC will have their brand new and improvement IFE too on their 767-300ERS, A330-300 and two newer a/c 777s and 787s. Available in AVOD.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:23 am

A few questions:

1. Will QF be using the A380 on this route?
2. What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

Someone is going to lose on this route. I don't think QF, maybe UA if they don't upgrade their product enough, or perhaps AC. My bet is AC, but we'll see.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
A few questions:

1. Will QF be using the A380 on this route?
2. What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

Someone is going to lose on this route. I don't think QF, maybe UA if they don't upgrade their product enough, or perhaps AC. My bet is AC, but we'll see.

MEL-LAX and SYD-LAX and SYD-LHR are the three planned routes for now...


I don't think AC is going to lose out..........loyal customer base, not to mention, MUCH nicer, more efficient, and newer planes...

UA better get its act together, or its going to be the loser in this...
"Up the Irons!"
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
Will QF be using the A380 on this route?

Reportedly yes. However it has been written QF will place A380 on the single LAX-MEL sector first instead of the current 3xdaily SYD-LAX route.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

New 777s that start delivery in 2007. AC gained access to the right as part of the new liberalized bilateral negotiated between Canada and the US last year.

Here is Air Canada's press releases.
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...y=1401250761&view=13213-0&Start=10
Funny enough the Australian Minister of Tourism welcomes the Air Canada service
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060127/wl_canada_afp/australiacanada

At the end of the day, I see Qantas as the bigger looser with Air Canada's entry on the route. I am certain that Air Canada will help supplement United on the route and has coordinated this launch with their Star partner, somewhat similar coordination UA has had with AirNZ when it dropped AKL services, and also has until this year tempered capacity on the LAX-LHR sector in deference of AirNZ.
I also presume this will also allow UA to free and aircraft by not adding the the 2nd supplemental seasonal winter flight it has been running last few years to Australia.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SFORunner
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:23 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/agreements/html/australia_e.html


Routes and Associated Rights

CANADA

Points of Origin
Canada

Intermediate Points
San Francisco, Honolulu, Tahiti, Fiji, a point to be agreed

Points in Australia
Sydney. One other point in Australia to be named by Canada.

Points Beyond


Any point or points specified above may be omitted on any or all services, but all services shall originate or terminate in Canada.

1. The additional point in Australia to be named by Canada and the additional point in Canada to be named by Australia shall be any point with an airport designated for international operations.

2. Points to be named by either Contracting Party may be changed on 6 months notice given to the other Contracting Party.



It would seem that LAX is an Intermediate Point "to be agreed".
 
oneworld1
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:38 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 10):

Where does HA fit in to this?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 10):

Actually, the new US/Canada bilateral is what gives AC the rights to fly this route.

Quoting Oneworld1 (Reply 11):
Where does HA fit in to this?

They don't. They are a US flag carrier and because of that can fly US-Australia under the bilateral free and clear
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
oneworld1
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:38 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):

Sorry, I didn't express myself well. Will HA not be the loser 'in all this', with AC's entry into the market?
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:28 am

Quoting Oneworld1 (Reply 13):
Sorry, I didn't express myself well. Will HA not be the loser 'in all this', with AC's entry into the market?

Actualy HA will win with this. Moveing AC from HNL SYD to LAX SYD will leave them and QF in the market.

-m

 airplane 
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
2. What will AC use

AC will be using their brand new B777-200LR a/c for YYZ-LAX-SYD using the 5th freedom right. Can you imagine SQ have access to Australia and USA market, we'll have 4 Star Alliance carriers flying the south pacific from USA to Australia and / or New Zealand, AC, NZ,SQ and UA.
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:54 am

I think Qantas should have the route, what will Australia get for letting SQ operate the route? The price wont change SQ is expensive to fly with now so i wouldnt think they would be charging much less than Qantas. If all things work out within 2 years we will have QF, JQ international, DJ international, UA, AC operating the route. Look how the tasman route has ended up, started off a couple of airlines operating it now its a bloodbath because NZ and Aus let it happen.
My opinion anyway.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 3):
Australia is almost always among the most expensive tickets from SAT. Take a look at the lowest priced, most restricted tickets from SAT over the next few months from Sabre...

Not to be mean, but uh, no shit!

Australia is only what, 9000 miles away from SAT. That's gonna cost a bit more than West Palm Beach, Florida don't you think?
PHX based
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
Can you imagine SQ have access to Australia and USA market

Do you mean SQ flying Australia-US non stop? Frankly, I can't. It is logical QF wants to defend its self-interest.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
jetfuel
Posts: 1027
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:08 am

You seem to forget about all the airlines that have tried SYD-LAX and failed. The fact is QF has a reputaion and people are happy to pay for that.

Air New Zealand, Northwest and Continental all tried and failed. UA has cut back whislt QF is adding more flights. What makes you think Singapore is going to be any more successful.

Reality is Australia has feared Sinapore Airlines for many years. Rumors of start up in Australia and the so called Ansett rescue that they never did. They have done Ausraltia no favour.... oh hang on they put to death one of our citizens.

Serious SIngapore only takes traffic into SIN becasue they want the tourist dollar, otherwise it would just be a little island that everybody forgot about
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
SEAPlane10
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:38 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 17):
Australia is only what, 9000 miles away from SAT. That's gonna cost a bit more than West Palm Beach, Florida don't you think?

The price per mile of the tickets to Australia, however, is quite high in comparison to other distant (5,000 miles or greater) destinations: Paris = $.052/mile; Istanbul = $.074/mile; Bangkok = $.078/mile; Tokyo = $.10/mile; Sydney = $.138/mile
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
Serious SIngapore only takes traffic into SIN becasue they want the tourist dollar, otherwise it would just be a little island that everybody forgot about

And it just happens to be in the middle of a monoply route Aussie-LHR
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:43 am

Interesting how Qantas is threatened by Singapore, but OK with AC and United.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4885
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
AC will be using their brand new B777-200LR a/c for YYZ-LAX-SYD using the 5th freedom right.

Are you sure? Considering the 773ER has about the same range or a bit more than the 744ER and the 744ER can make LAX-SYD easily I see no reason why the 773ER can't, so personally I expect AC to use the 773ER. The 772LR will do the new YVR-SYD non stop. They could start LAX-SYD with a 772LR and upgrade to a 773ER I surpose.

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
You seem to forget about all the airlines that have tried SYD-LAX and failed. The fact is QF has a reputaion and people are happy to pay for that.

Air New Zealand, Northwest and Continental all tried and failed. UA has cut back whislt QF is adding more flights. What makes you think Singapore is going to be any more successful.

So QF have a reputation and SQ don't?

NZ lost the AN feed, and they aren't US or Australian based so they struggled at the front end once AN dissappeared. NW had the sarga of going through Japan, while they did still fly LAX-SYD non stop 3x weekly and on the other days LAX-HNL-SYD they decided to quit because they couldn't go through Japan and pick up enough pax. So they decided to quit altogether. CO never served LAX-SYD non stop and didn't have the equipment to do so at the time. Their aircraft were jam packed but they were by far the cheapest on the route and had to stop in HNL when UA, QF and NZ were all doing LAX-SYD or LAX-AKL non stop.

So UA has cut back? Why then in the Southern summer do they offer 3 additional flights from both LAX and SFO to SYD? Because demand isn't there? Sure UA have admited themselves that the Australian market is so so, but they need to get out of Chapter 11 which they soon will and then get a new product.

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
Serious SIngapore only takes traffic into SIN becasue they want the tourist dollar, otherwise it would just be a little island that everybody forgot about

And the fact that SQ has a reputation.
 
jetfuel
Posts: 1027
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 23):
So UA has cut back

UA used to fly MEL_LAX non-stop. They have definitely cut their pacific services.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 23):
NZ lost the AN feed, and they aren't US or Australian based so they struggled at the front end once AN dissappeared.

And the same would apply to SQ - they have no feed either.

IF the service couldnt work for CO, NZ or NW then why is SQ so sure it will.

THE REAL PROBLEM WITH AUS-USA services is there is no competition on any service out of LAX except to SYD. More servives need to opert out of MEL and BNE.

AT least AC and UA are on the American continent and have some justification for operating to Australia. How would SQ feel if an American carrier came into SIN and started operting services on their lucrative routes???

I am all for encouraging competition - let's see another American carrier fly to Australia.

THE OTHER REASON QF seems to have a monopoly is the totally atrocious UA service. Their cabin ammenites and attitude towards passenger comfort is appauling. IF an American carrier operated a quality service I gurantee QF might have a problem, until then its staus quo. I just wish somebody like CO had the equipment and teamed up with Virgin Blue in Australia to operate an alliance
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 24):
UA used to fly MEL_LAX non-stop. They have definitely cut their pacific services.

Actually, United has expanded their Pacific services. The reason they cut LAX-MEL non-stop is because QF got the 744ER, which enabled them to under cut UA big time.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4885
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 24):
UA used to fly MEL_LAX non-stop. They have definitely cut their pacific services.

They cut that due to the operational requirements of the P/W Powered 744's. They probably only continue to serve MEL because they serve SYD from both LAX and SFO meaning that they can put those going through to MEL on 1 744, and maybe a bit of cargo. They cut AKL aswell which was for totally different reasons.

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 24):
And the same would apply to SQ - they have no feed either.

IF the service couldnt work for CO, NZ or NW then why is SQ so sure it will.

Because SQ will use smaller 773ER's seating 278 and SQ are SQ, they have a very good reputation, better than that of CO, NZ or NW.

I agree that there needs to be more competition out of MEL and BNE and that it would be great to see another American carrier in Australia!!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 26):
They cut that due to the operational requirements of the P/W Powered 744's. They probably only continue to serve MEL because they serve SYD from both LAX and SFO meaning that they can put those going through to MEL on 1 744, and maybe a bit of cargo.

Yes, the SFO-SYD service is timed to connect to the LAX-SYD-MEL service in Sydney so that United is able to spread the load well and make money. Additionally, they get significantly more cargo uplift this way. In fact, the main reason they added 3 more flights per week on a dedicated LAX-SYD-LAX run is cargo. As far as the operational requirements, it is not the PW4056 engines that are the problem for UA to Oz. Their 744s have plenty of range as compares to other 744A aircraft, just not as much as the 744ER. In fact, the 744ER is available with both GE CF6 power and PW4062 power. The PW4062 actually has more power and a lower SFC IIRC than the 62,000 pound CF6 on the QF birds.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 26):
They cut AKL aswell which was for totally different reasons.

AKL was cut for 2 reasons. UA was already codesharing with NZ and couldn't support a 744 on the flight. Their 772ERs are the right size, but are only certified to 648,000 pounds as opposed to 656,000 and hence have less range than their 744s. This forced them to take weight restrictions into an already small station on significantly smaller, higher CASM aircraft. It just didn't make economic sense
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SFORunner
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:23 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Actually, the new US/Canada bilateral is what gives AC the rights to fly this route.

AC still need approval from the folks in Canberra as LAX is not explicitly listed as a "Intermediate Point" the Canada / Australia bilateral (above). More of a formality, IMHO.

The US and Singapore have a bilateral that would (in theory) give SQ the right to fly LAX - SYD, but as we know the SYD side is still subject to approval (or denial).

Let's look at it this way:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060127/wl_canada_afp/australiacanada

SYDNEY (AFP) - Australian Tourism Minister Fran Bailey welcomed plans by Air Canada to launch daily flights on the lucrative Sydney to Los Angeles route, a prized air corridor long sought by Singapore Airlines.

Air Canada Thursday announced it will apply to Australian authorities to begin a daily Toronto-Los Angeles-Sydney service following the delivery of the airline's new Boeing-777 fleet in early 2007.

"Air Canada will have to seek regulatory approval before being able to begin flying (the route) in the first half of 2007," a spokesman for Bailey said.


Why would AC "apply" for authority to fly LAX - SYD if the US/Canada bilateral simply provided AC all the authority it required to fly the route? Answer: it doesn't by itself.

[Edited 2006-02-20 04:14:37]
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 28):
AC still need approval from the folks in Canberra as LAX is not explicitly listed as a "Intermediate Point" the Canada / Australia bilateral (above). More of a formality, IMHO.

Actually, based on how the US/Canada bilateral is written, it may be the US/Australia bilateral that governs here, not the Canada/Australia one.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4885
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
In fact, the 744ER is available with both GE CF6 power and PW4062 power. The PW4062 actually has more power and a lower SFC IIRC than the 62,000 pound CF6 on the QF birds.

Ok, I thought it was only avaliable with GE's.

There was another reason AKL was cut and that was the fact that they had 96 staff here for 1 daily flight and that in itself would have cost a few $ million a year. They couldn't lay them off so they quit and like you say since they already had the NZ codeshare. They did say when they first put the 772ER's on the run that they were here to stay, but sadly they couldn't sustain the route.
 
SFORunner
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:23 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
Actually, based on how the US/Canada bilateral is written, it may be the US/Australia bilateral that governs here, not the Canada/Australia one.

Perhaps. The point I make is that it's not "automatic" but more apt to happen than SQ's entry.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2253
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
Serious SIngapore only takes traffic into SIN becasue they want the tourist dollar, otherwise it would just be a little island that everybody forgot about

And Qantas is quite happy to heavily exploit this little island for its own advantage. Of course SQ wants the tourist dollar - what's your point? Everyone does. Fact of the matter is though that whereas Qantas has full rights to fly between Singapore and Europe at the moment, SQ doesn't have reciprocal rights bewteen Australia and the US.

Some argue that this simply levels the playing field, otherwise SQ would simply suck all the traffic between Oz and Europe. But that's just what you get for being at the end of the world with a connection to nowhere. Get used to it.
 
airtropolis
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
They have done Ausraltia no favour.... oh hang on they put to death one of our citizens.

and prevented millions of dollars worth of drugs from entering the OZ market and destroying even more lives or would that be a good thing in your opinion?

It is unfortunate that this saga has led to so many divisive opinions on this site, but I guess if people's minds are closed, they're closed. The main premise of the issue of open skies between the 2 countries and beyond is the free trade agreement they have, in my opinion, there really is no point in the 2 countries having a free trade agreement if Australia chooses to make exceptions, it really makes a mockery of the idea of free trade!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):

Actually, United has expanded their Pacific services. The reason they cut LAX-MEL non-stop is because QF got the 744ER, which enabled them to under cut UA big time.

hence the need for 777-300ER or 7478I

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 32):
Fact of the matter is though that whereas Qantas has full rights to fly between Singapore and Europe at the moment, SQ doesn't have reciprocal rights bewteen Australia and the US.

thus QF pushing Boeing to get the 777-200LR capable of flying SYD-LHR nonstop...
"Up the Irons!"
 
deputydawghere
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:45 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:47 pm

I agree with Jetfuel, "THE OTHER REASON QF seems to have a monopoly is the totally atrocious UA service. Their cabin ammenites and attitude towards passenger comfort is appauling." I fly to Sydney every year for a holiday. Last year when returning to the states I was apalled with the service and attitude of United's flight attendants; just terrible. One particular attendant, as fat and old as the hills, definitely from Pan Am, was absolutely terrible with passengers. In addition, the 747-422 I was on was in poor condition, interior wise. I've always been a fan of United's, but if they don't do something about the morale of their employees they'll lose business and Qantas will have nothing to fear as far as them being a competitor. By the way, my ticket to Sydney this July is on Qantas.
N/A
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 34):
hence the need for 777-300ER or 7478I

748I would be the best, given that UA would already be at a disadvantage to the QF 744ER with the 77W. Beyond that, they would be competing against the QF A380, which will undercut the 744ER on CASM but will be bested by the 748I

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 30):
There was another reason AKL was cut and that was the fact that they had 96 staff here for 1 daily flight and that in itself would have cost a few $ million a year.

Well, that would have been ok if they could at least fill the cargo belly of the 772ER or the PAX cabin of the 744, but with the weight restrictions, UA had no chance

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 30):
They did say when they first put the 772ER's on the run that they were here to stay, but sadly they couldn't sustain the route.

UA's main problem was that they couldn't run the 648,000 pound 772ER to AKL with a full cargo and PAX load and maintain ETOPS 180. If the PW4098 hadn't been an abject failure, they would have easily sustained the route and likely thrown a 777 on LAX-MEL non-stop
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8572
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Beyond that, they would be competing against the QF A380, which will undercut the 744ER on CASM but will be bested by the 748I

Not to mention, the 747-8I is an evolutionary derrivitive from the 747-400 and would likely integrate into UA's fleet very smoothly, GE-engines aside.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 24):
IF an American carrier operated a quality service I gurantee QF might have a problem, until then its staus quo. I just wish somebody like CO had the equipment and teamed up with Virgin Blue in Australia to operate an alliance

When AC starts the route with the their new 777's QF will have some serious competition on the route. I know it's not an American carrier, but I think with the STAR feeds from UA and US/HP they could possibly hurt QF on the route.

We'll see I guess

Kris
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:18 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 37):
Not to mention, the 747-8I is an evolutionary derrivitive from the 747-400 and would likely integrate into UA's fleet very smoothly, GE-engines aside.

Yep. The common type rating will help a lot. Remember also that part of United's exit financing came from GE
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:34 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 17):
Not to be mean, but uh, no shit!

Australia is only what, 9000 miles away from SAT. That's gonna cost a bit more than West Palm Beach, Florida don't you think?

As already stated, the cost per mile is still more than other long-haul flights. Why you decided to focus on Florida is beyond me, but next time I'll cut it off so it doesn't confuse you.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:15 pm

I wonder if AC will take over UA LAX-MEL from YVR or YYC or YUL. So what do you think of having AC introduce LAX-MEL from any point in Canada?..Use the 777-300ER or 777-200LR..
 
paulkaz
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:27 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:02 pm

This afternoon(monday) the AustralianGoverment refused SQ rights to fly Aus-US.SQ tried to cherry pick the most profiable business route.Perhaps if they had proposed MEL or BNE they may have appeared a bit more genuine.
If they are so keen to pursue an open market why dont they argue for JFK -LHR rights.They would not stand a chance.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:13 pm

Quoting Paulkaz (Reply 42):
This afternoon(monday) the AustralianGoverment refused SQ rights to fly Aus-US.SQ tried to cherry pick the most profiable business route

Got a link or source? Everything seems to be saying the decision will be made tomorrow (Tuesday).

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 41):
wonder if AC will take over UA LAX-MEL from YVR or YYC or YUL

Don't think so. Its not the same. Not every city will work with MEL. LAX and possibly SFO can make this route profitable.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2131
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 23):
So UA has cut back? Why then in the Southern summer do they offer 3 additional flights from both LAX and SFO to SYD? Because demand isn't there? Sure UA have admited themselves that the Australian market is so so, but they need to get out of Chapter 11 which they soon will and then get a new product.

They re-emerged from CH11 at the start of Feb and they will start making the upgrades to the International fleet in the third quarter of '06 having put $400m aside for this, amongst other things.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 pm

I guess we'll not see A380 do LAX-SYD routing. Unless the Australia government decide to postpone until SQ recieve their 380. Who knows. Time will tell. Will MEL be handling A380 or just SYD?
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4981
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 24):
is the totally atrocious UA service. Their cabin ammenites and attitude towards passenger comfort is appauling.

Is this statement based on personal experience or is it based on hearsay?
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4981
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
they couldn't run the 648,000 pound 772ER to AKL with a full cargo and PAX load and maintain ETOPS 180.

The ETOPSchart on Great Circle Mapper suggests that ETOPS180 is not a consideration on AKL-LAX.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 46):
guess we'll not see A380 do LAX-SYD routing. Unless the Australia government decide to postpone until SQ recieve their 380. Who knows. Time will tell. Will MEL be handling A380 or just SYD?

QFs first A380 route will be MEL-LAX, followed by SYD-LAX and then SYD/MEL-LHR.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85