SAA201
Topic Author
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 2:37 am

SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:41 pm

Hi all

Can't find any press releases on this, but browsing the online schedules I notice that from the end of Feb 2006 SAA will reduce to current daily JNB-Zurich service to just 3 flights per week. Outbound flights from JNB to ZRH will then be on Tues, Thur and Sat evenings.

The daily JNB-BOM service reduces to 4 times weekly from the end of March 2006. Outbound flights will then on Tues, Thur, Sat and Sun.

All of the above flights are operated by A340-200's.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13075
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:52 pm

Quoting SAA201 (Thread starter):
I notice that from the end of Feb 2006 SAA will reduce to current daily JNB-Zurich service to just 3 flights per week. Outbound flights from JNB to ZRH will then be on Tues, Thur and Sat evenings.

I wonder why JNB-ZRH is being reduced in particular. Or could this mean that sometime soon SA is going to start codesharing some of these flights with LX, as LX will soon join the Star Alliance.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:19 pm

Well, one goal of partnerships and alliances is to reduce overcapacity. If you reduce offer, price will raise. If Star Alliance sees two own carriers competing each others, they will stop it.

Less pax but a better average income...

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
If Star Alliance sees two own carriers competing each others, they will stop it.

you mean like SQ / NH and UA all operating daily NRT-LAX ? or LH and SQ on FRA-SIN with 3 daily flights between them ? or UA and LH side by side on IAD-FRA ? or any one of dozens of other routes ?
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:32 pm

Of course my generalisation is wrong. It all depends on the market...I think you understand what I mean...

The only reason why the route is still operated by both carriers is because the relationship between them is more than bad and noone wants to lose the childish game...

RJ100
none
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:38 pm

I'm surprised that BOM is being cut back, because I know several Indian businesses with significant interests in SA who fly quite frequently between India-SA. Its a lot easier than flying EK via DXB. However, I have a feeling that BOM will go back to daily before the start of the summer package tour rush out of India.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
SAA201
Topic Author
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 2:37 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:50 pm

It could perhaps be because SAA will soon start reconfiguring their A340-200's. The current config is 42J+194Y. This will change to 24J+226Y over the next few months. The new lie-flat seats currently installed on A343's and A346's will now also be fitted to the A342's.

As for the reduction to Mumbai, I've heard that some kind of revised Visa requirement for entry into SA have contributed to a decrease in pax loads on the route. Apparently a large portion of pax that traditionally connected in JNB from India to South America are now electing to connect elsewhere due to these new requirements.

The reductions in frequencies could also possibly be to free up aircraft for SAA to start new routes once they become part of the Star Alliance. There is apparently talk of new routes to either of (or all of) MUC, SIN, BKK, SYD and MIA. Other changes likely are ORD replacing ATL on a one-for-one basis and more frequencies to IAD.

Not too sure which routes will be added immediately or if some (or all) of the planned new routes will have to wait till next year when the 3 A343's get returned from Jet Airways.
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting SAA201 (Thread starter):
The daily JNB-BOM service reduces to 4 times weekly from the end of March 2006. Outbound flights will then on Tues, Thur, Sat and Sun.

Very Strange, especially since South Africa along with Mauritius is going to be those countries which would nt require a visa for Indians after March 2006 provided they have return tickets confirmed---Why would they pull the plug when the tourisim boom is expected
 
SAA201
Topic Author
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 2:37 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:18 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 7):
South Africa along with Mauritius is going to be those countries which would nt require a visa for Indians after March 2006 provided they have return tickets confirmed

My apologies, I seem to have misunderstood the visa requirements. Thanks for the clarification Karan69. Perhaps that was an excuse for lower pax loads on the BOM route in the past then?
 
behramjee
Posts: 4343
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:58 pm

The India-South Africa route is fiercely competitive with KQ-ET-EK-QR-SA and now EY-GF being part of the game.

SAA probably are reducing capacity in the off season to get their A 342s as someone said to be refitted with a new cabin look.
 
Ibhayi
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:23 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:23 pm

After a group of Nigerian's snuck into South Africa at 3am, when a flight from Lago's arrived, Nigerians are stereotyped in South Africa as being the drug dealers - they arnt far wrong, Home Affairs took the stance to implement a transit visa. Why they dont have some body there 24/7 is but a sweet mystery of life.

It should not affect the airlines, the inability of Home Affairs to complete their designated duties compatently. SAA could request to home affairs to remove the transit visa and in return SAA will notify home affairs of late arrivals and departures so they can have people ready to avoid such incidents happening in the future.

Although this is Africa so it wont happen.
fat girls give the best head because they're hungry
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Ibhayi (Reply 10):
Although this is Africa so it wont happen.

That sums it up so painfully well! Africa runs by it's own clock and it's pointless to get upset about things...just chill out and go with the flow.

I'm surprised to read that the three 343E's will be coming back sooner than I expected. They will undoubtably be very useful in fleet when the new routes are started.

The new J/Y seating ratio for the 342's seems to be much better for that size of aircraft. Does anyone know how the reconfiguration of the 346's is going?
 
andz
Posts: 7626
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 11):
Does anyone know how the reconfiguration of the 346's is going?

Last time I flew 346 in November the seat pitch in Y was much better, not sure if they are all done.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting SAA201 (Reply 6):
There is apparently talk of new routes to either of (or all of) MUC, SIN, BKK, SYD and MIA. Other changes likely are ORD replacing ATL on a one-for-one basis and more frequencies to IAD.

As a note, however, they can't add frequencies to IAD and add MIA. SAA has only three unused USA frequencies, and they tentatively plan on putting those to use on MIA flights, which will operate on the days IAD flights do not. The other options they are looking at are making IAD daily and ORD 4x a week (which would make more sense, given Washington's strong local market), or making IAD and ORD daily and not starting MIA.
a.
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:05 am

SAA has returned two 744 to their owner
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Ibhayi
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:23 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 14):
SAA has returned two 744 to their owner

SAA are Moron's.

As is the CEO, MORON deluxe, open up the dictionary to disfunctional retard and his pic is there.
fat girls give the best head because they're hungry
 
SA7700
Posts: 2936
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
given Washington's strong local market), or making IAD and ORD daily and not starting MIA.

I am sorry but I beg to differ. I flew from JNB-IAD-JNB during November / December 2005. The loads from ACC-IAD-ACC were shocking. From ACC-IAD there was about 60 Y-class pax, ± 20 pax in J-class and no pax in F-class. From IAD to ACC there was about 49 pax in Y-class, 9 in J-class and no pax upfront in F-class. This was on B744's.

Unless SA can get rights from Ghana to carry pax on the ACC-IAD-ACC sectors, which is highly unlikely at this stage, I personally don't see the strong Washington market that you are mentioning, unless you have more info that I am not aware off.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 16):

I am sorry but I beg to differ. I flew from JNB-IAD-JNB during November / December 2005. The loads from ACC-IAD-ACC were shocking. From ACC-IAD there was about 60 Y-class pax, � 20 pax in J-class and no pax in F-class. From IAD to ACC there was about 49 pax in Y-class, 9 in J-class and no pax upfront in F-class. This was on B744's.

One experience doesn't say much. Washington is the second largest local travel market between the US and Africa. New York City is the largest, while Miami and Houston are 3rd/4th-ish.
a.
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
One experience doesn't say much. Washington is the second largest local travel market between the US and Africa. New York City is the largest, while Miami and Houston are 3rd/4th-ish.

Okay then,how do you foresee SA using their 21 weekly frequencies once they join Star Alliance and move from ATL? If I were to make a guess,it would be 7 X JFK-A343 via DKR,7 X IAD-A346 via SID and 7 X MIA-A342 via CPT. The interesting one to watch is IAD. Will it be dropped for ORD?

[Edited 2006-02-20 23:24:11]
 
SA7700
Posts: 2936
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
One experience doesn't say much.

Taking into account that it was peak season (South African summer holidays) and the SA ATL and JFK flights were packed, it does tell me that everything is not kosher.

During the ACC-IAD sector I spoke to one of the F/A's back in Y-class and she told me that SA were experiencing low loads, most if not all of the time, on the ACC-IAD-ACC sectors. This was also when she told me that they had 60 pax in Y-class.

Maybe it will change once ATL is dropped. We will just have to wait and see.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: SAA Reduce Flights To Zurich And Mumbai

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 18):

Okay then,how do you foresee SA using their 21 weekly frequencies once they join Star Alliance and move from ATL? If I were to make a guess,it would be 7 X JFK-A343 via DKR,7 X IAD-A346 via SID and 7 X MIA-A342 via CPT. The interesting one to watch is IAD. Will it be dropped for ORD?

I foresee a daily JFK-DKR-JNB and 3x weekly MIA-CPT-JNB. The other 11 frequencies split between IAD-ACC-JNB and ORD-SID-JNB, but I don't know exactly how.
a.