GSPITNL
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The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:05 am

I recently was speaking to a couple Delta pilots and wanted to dicuss the future of Delta Airlines.

The first pilot was from my GSP-ATL flight on a Boeing 737-200. He said that most of the stuff that we hear on the news etc is DALPA trying to scare the general public and Delta Management to believing that they will strike. When I Asked him if they would, he said very firmly NO WAY! He said that Delta and the Pilots will agree before that happens and that the strike would do nothing but put over 10,000 people out of work and ruin the state of Georgia's economy. I then asked him what the future of Delta was and he was very positive saying that he has heard many things and that the 787 is in Delta's future and that he expects Delta to be the largest International carrier out of the United States by 2010. He also said that he and his fellow pilots are pretty certin that they will be out of BK by mid 2007 and in the black again by 2008.

Now the second pilot i talked to wasnt quite as talkative but he did confirm the same thing regarding DALPA trying to scare management to cut them down to around 250 Million in cuts vs 350 million in cuts. He also said that there will never be a Delta strike with the Pilots Union.

What are your thoughts? Where do you think Delta will be in the future?

I think that the pilots will not stirke and reach a deal with Delta for around 225 Million in cuts.

As far as Delta's future. I think they are on line to come out of BK by the middle of 2007 and that they should return to profitability by 2008. I see a large 787 order upon exit from BK and possibally a 747 order with there new International hopes. I see them going to China and Austrailia in the future and returning the joy of flying in the US. I think that Delta will give all their planes the new leather and personal IFE's. I see a reduced amount of RJ's by 2010 and more mainline flights with 738's which will be ordered.

Please try and keep this thread positive as we do enough Delta bashing!

Thanks in Advance for your input!!
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
Delta4eva
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:18 am

it's all politics...there is no way that DL pilots would strike, making them unemployed. They are just trying to scare management and management is doing the same thing. I think that DL's future does look bright and I could agree that DL will be come the U.S.'s most international carrier by 2010 maybe even before. But dont expect to see a 787 order until they exit bankruptcy.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
flydreamliner
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:19 am

I think I enjoy flying on delta more than any other legacy carrier in the US. I'd love if they flew more international. I'm not sure if I see them as the largest international carrier by 2010 though. Buying 747s? Those are pricey. I see more 777 and 787s, and a program to replace and unify their mainline jets (732s, M80s, M90s, etc) with 738's (and perhaps other 73G variants). But all of this can't happen until they have money again, which might be a little bit. Delta has a good relationship with their pilots i believe, I don't think they'll strike.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
Cadet57
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:28 am

Well given the state of delta. The pilots know if there is a strike. They will be out of work. The pilots union are a bunch of smart cookies. It's just a scare tactic to get the management to play some hardball. They wont do something stupid like this that they know will put em on the street. Just look at the NW mecs.
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congaboy
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:36 am

Definately a tactic on the part of DL pilots...I live in "Delta-land", and have alot of neighbors who are DL pilots. They live a very nice life-style, and even when they have given back 30%, its still a good job. To loose it would be dumb, and how many more times do we need to see this game being played.

As much as I dislike DL today (from a customer standpoint), I do believe they will emerge as a leaner company. THey have been battling AirTran here in ATL for years now, and have been making adjustments as they learn to compete with a bonafide LCC. That will only make them better. As far as new aircraft, they will most certainly take a page out of the UA playbook. You won't see new DL aircraft for years.
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DL4EVR
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:53 am

As for some 744s...I'm pretty sure DL's plan is to stick with twinjets.
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AA777223
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:04 am

I think we will see a large 787/777 order, as I think they need them to accomplish their ambitious international plans. I think we will see expanded use of the 764 in the interim. They will most certainly emerge from BK much leaner, but I highly doubt they will surpass AA and their other competitors as the largest international carriers out of the US, but I will certainly enjoy watching them try. I am not a huge DL fan, as a customer, but I would love to see them succeed. I wish them the best of luck.
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dalb777
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 6):
I think we will see a large 787/777 order

In previous threads, people speculated DL will order the 777-200LR. Do you think DL will seriously consider buying the LR to expand to destinations the ER's can't make non-stop? I know that they won't buy anything until after they get out of BK, but I'm just curious as to the possibility of the LR in the future DL fleet. Maybe the addition of the LR is a start on them becoming the largest international carrier out of the United States???
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twolz2rn
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:16 am

yeah...747's don't seem to fit in well...even with the international expansion...i would think 777LR (MAYBE 773 for the highest passenger volume routes) and 787 are more likely to fit...
 
GSPITNL
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 7):
In previous threads, people speculated DL will order the 777-200LR. Do you think DL will seriously consider buying the LR to expand to destinations the ER's can't make non-stop? I know that they won't buy anything until after they get out of BK, but I'm just curious as to the possibility of the LR in the future DL fleet. Maybe the addition of the LR is a start on them becoming the largest international carrier out of the United States???

I dono how feasable the LR would be for DL. However if they could get approval for ATL-SYD and other such routes, I could see the 772LR in the future of DL in the long run. I think the biggest orders will be either a 787 or 777-200ER. I would really like to see DL pick up the LR and be able to run long distance locations with non-stop flights.

Time will tell on the LR but the ER and 787 seem almost positive once they get back in the Green  Smile
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
Evan767
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:19 am

Well that's a relief. Everyone at my mother's station is really in a depressing state right now because of those damn pilots.

Here's a few reason for you guys NOT to strike:

You will lose your own job which still pays a great amount of money and is the norm compared to the other airlines.

You will lose your benefits. Have fun paying for your flights. You know Delta treats us generously when it comes to flight benefits at least.

You will put tens of thousands of employees out of work and the economy will go into a decline.

You will have wasted ALL of that money you spent on training to become a pilot, and it will be incredibly hard to find another job with another airline. You will also lose all of your many years of seniority and be at the bottom of the totem pole. If you do find another job with an airline, they are likely to not pay you as much as DL even with the cuts, as you will be on your first year with the new airline.

So please don't strike. It would be selfish and incredibly greedy.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
ckfred
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:30 am

I tend to think that Delta will survive, simply because it only has one major union, ALPA, and its labor relations have been better than other legacy carriers.

That said, Delta has to try to differentiate itself from the other large U.S. carriers, once it comes out of bankruptcy.

In the days of regulation, you knew you were dealing with Delta, because its reservations agents all had southern accents, its flight attendants were predominantly southern, and its meal service was southern. My father used to fly Delta, if he needed to go to Atlanta, Nashville, or Louisville, because Eastern's food was plain and boring, while Delta had grits on breakfast flights.

As an international carrier, DL does have to have a level of sophistication that WN doesn't have or need, but it should try to have a more southern feel on its domestic service.
 
gigneil
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:33 am

Just a slight update to the original poster... If DL went under, way more than 10,000 people would be out of a job.

I would imagine closer to 50,000, if not even closer to 100,000.

N
 
MKEdude
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:36 am

Once DL puts their union troubles behind them, then an exit from bankruptcy will not be far off. I would expect a big order for the 777/787 so they can start phasing out the older 767s, continue beef up their expanding Europe operations, and make a bigger push into Asia.

I don't see the 748 in their plans however. DL and the 747 were never a good mix. Yes they used to fly a few but it was the 70's, and everybody was experimenting!
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
congaboy
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):
Just a slight update to the original poster... If DL went under, way more than 10,000 people would be out of a job.

I would imagine closer to 50,000, if not even closer to 100,000.

As a resident of suburban ATL, I would very much agree. DL is an economy by itself. Major regional impact if they go...which is another reason why they won't.
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
n917me
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:39 am

Even though I don't think they will strike, no one thought Pan Am or Eastern would go away...more recently TWA. How many TWA employees still work at American??? not many.
 
alaska737
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:41 am

i wish the best of luck to DL and NW as well
 
GSPITNL
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):
Just a slight update to the original poster... If DL went under, way more than 10,000 people would be out of a job.

I would imagine closer to 50,000, if not even closer to 100,000.

N

You are completely right. That is my error. Thank you for your correction  Smile
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:58 am

Rumor mill is going strong again, I see. As far as what the OP said that the pilots said, I sure hope it is true, as regardless of what many people say, DL has already made quite a progress in restructuring, though they are obviously nowhere near their goals just yet.
As far as new orders go, yes, DL would likely order the 787, but no, they won't order any 772LRs. I even think DL could dispose off their 772ERs if Boeing were to really launch the 787-10, because then DL could combine both their small 777 fleet and their huge 767 into one friggin' huge 787 fleet. DL currently doesn't have any routes that a 787-8 couldn't do, and if DL were to seriously think about ATL-SYD (for the love of God), a 787-9 could do the job as well as a 777, and except maybe MEL, there is no market of interest in 772LR range that couldn't also be done with a 787-9. Not to mention that it will cost quite a few $$$ less.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
Rumor mill is going strong again, I see. As far as what the OP said that the pilots said, I sure hope it is true, as regardless of what many people say, DL has already made quite a progress in restructuring, though they are obviously nowhere near their goals just yet.
As far as new orders go, yes, DL would likely order the 787, but no, they won't order any 772LRs. I even think DL could dispose off their 772ERs if Boeing were to really launch the 787-10, because then DL could combine both their small 777 fleet and their huge 767 into one friggin' huge 787 fleet. DL currently doesn't have any routes that a 787-8 couldn't do, and if DL were to seriously think about ATL-SYD (for the love of God), a 787-9 could do the job as well as a 777, and except maybe MEL, there is no market of interest in 772LR range that couldn't also be done with a 787-9. Not to mention that it will cost quite a few $$$ less.

While some will disagree, I woudn't be suprised if Delta ordered 787-3s for domestic routes. The 787-3 would be an ideal replacement for the 767-200s and non-ER 767-300s.

Some claim that Delta intends to completely remove widebodies from domestic service. This is completely untrue. The domestic 767-300 non-ERs and 13 767-400ERs will REMAIN on domestic routes. These domestic routes served by 767-300s cannot warrant a 787-8 with BusinessElite seating, nor can it warrant many continuous narrowbodies.

BTW, here are other reasons why Delta would order the 787-3 over the 787-8 for domestic routes.
- The 787-3 is more fuel efficient than the 787-8
- The 787-3 can use the existing 767 gates
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gigneil
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
- The 787-3 is more fuel efficient than the 787-8

I dunno about that... they're practically the same weight.

N
 
atmx2000
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
I dunno about that... they're practically the same weight.

N

There is a several percentage point difference in OEWs. But the 787-3 is also configured for a 2 class configuration. The question is whether that configuration is heavier than Boeing's 3 class configration used in the 787-8 spec.

But I imagine the improved efficiency question would be a function of how the wing changes effect aerodynamics and whether the engines will tweaked enough for the 787-3 and whether they are as efficient at the lower thrust settings needed on the 787-3.
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OttoPylit
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 14):
DL is an economy by itself. Major regional impact if they go...which is another reason why they won't.

I don't know. After all, if you talk to people like Cairo, he says that if DL were to go under, the impact on GA and the entire country would be less than 1%. (sarcastic) RE: Ga. House Offers Help To Delta (by OttoPylit Feb 19 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2614740



Delta will be fine. The pilots always use these scare tactics to try and prove something, and they talk a lot of smack, but in the end, most of them know there is too much to lose. You have a lot of junior FO's that are willing to strike, and some captains who will threaten it for protection of what they believe is their's. However, when it comes down to it, many of them will think real hard about it and know that it will ruin everything they have ever worked for. Even with these cuts, being a pilot is still better than any real job, as they say. And other airlines have it much worse. Your still only working 75 hrs a month and more if you want to. Many senior captains will want something there to retire for. Many mid-level captains or senior FO's want to move up and don't want to start all over again after putting in their time "at the bottom." So only the junior FO's are the only ones wiht nothing to lose. Everyone also knows that the end of Delta is not just the end of pilots, but the end of the line for everyone. Dispatchers, gate agents, rampers, scheduling, operations, reservations, flight attendants, cabin service, everyone. The better part of 50,000 lives tumbled by the acts of a few. Not to mention the huge drain it would put on the local Atlanta and Georgia economy for the better part of a decade, probably.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 6):
I highly doubt they will surpass AA and their other competitors as the largest international carriers out of the US, but I will certainly enjoy watching them try.

I see, if DL and the pilots come to an agreement on what the company wants, DL emerging from BK by the end of the year and profitable by mid-2007. I see DL's international expansion rising rapidly and orders for more 777's and 787's while continuing to place orders for more 738's. Europe and S. America are the main focuses for expansion, and with DL already being the LARGEST carrier across the Atlantic, the expansion will only increase the foothold. But DL will not overlook Asia, and will re-commit to getting rights to fly to China, maybe a few lower Asian states, and maybe(hopefully) one day Australia.



OttoPylit
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WesternA318
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:29 am

For all the crazy ass DL pilots who like to scare the flying public and DL management:

CE Woolman is spinning in his grave becasue of you, and of people like your union reps and management freaks like Leo Mullin and Ron Allen. DL was a great airline at one time, I hope Grinstein can bring it back. Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

For all the widget-lovers:

Keep supporting DL. Rock on!
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tinpusher007
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 22):
Your still only working 75 hrs a month and more if you want to.

Don't say things like that. Those 75 hours are only hours spent in the cockpit actually flying. They do not include time spent away from home, sitting around the airport or waiting out delays. Its not as simple as a "real job" having a 40 hour work week and pilots having a 75 hour work month...not even close!
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
rwsea
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 7):
In previous threads, people speculated DL will order the 777-200LR. Do you think DL will seriously consider buying the LR to expand to destinations the ER's can't make non-stop? I know that they won't buy anything until after they get out of BK, but I'm just curious as to the possibility of the LR in the future DL fleet. Maybe the addition of the LR is a start on them becoming the largest international carrier out of the United States???

I don't see DL having a need for the 747, but I see them having a great need for the 73G, 738, E-190 and E-170 for domestic service. These planes could be used to replace M88/M90/732/733 and to reduce reliance on the CRJ.

Internationally they will get the 787 to replace the 763/764, and will probably go with the 777-LR. I could see them using on the following routes:

ATL-JNB
JFK-DEL
JFK-Chennai
JFK-BOM
JFK-JNB
ATL-HKG
ATL-PEK
ATL-PVG
 
AirlineAV8tr
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:58 am

I don't mean any disrespect, but speaking with two pilots can hardly get a good barometer of DALPA's view as a whole. I have two uncles with DL, and while one is more on the side of the pilots that you spoke with, the other is almost vicious in his promise of a strike. He is the older of the two, and has recently been screwed by management on an upgrade issue- so his views tend to be biast a bit. I have asked both of them if management did'nt pull their petition severance, what would happen, and they both said that they WOULD strike, but only if managements stand did not soften up- which I believe it will.
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
airlinespotter
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting GSPITNL (Thread starter):
As far as Delta's future. I think they are on line to come out of BK by the middle of 2007 and that they should return to profitability by 2008. I see a large 787 order upon exit from BK and possibally a 747 order with there new International hopes. I see them going to China and Austrailia in the future and returning the joy of flying in the US. I think that Delta will give all their planes the new leather and personal IFE's. I see a reduced amount of RJ's by 2010 and more mainline flights with 738's which will be ordered.

Are you kidding me? I do not see Delta will be a making any profit by 2008 and a large order of 787 or 747 upon exit from BK. And new leather with personal IFE's on all planes? They will be very lucky if they make it even by 2008. I do think Delta will REDUCE capacity therefore Delta will be smaller than it is now. Now, if you think they will give ALL their planes the new leather and personal IFE's, then they will not remove Songs. In any case, Delta will servive. My 2 cents.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 23):
For all the widget-lovers:

Keep supporting DL. Rock on!

Haha. Thanks for the nod to the widget-lovers. Some of us go out of our way (including more than one connection) to fly on the widget. Why? Because some of us have experienced, at least one time, the true Delta spirit that so many of DL's employees exhibit. I've had my share of shitty flights on Delta, but because of the majority of the employees, I keep going back.

Here's to 75 more years of Delta Air Lines.

Quoting Airlinespotter (Reply 27):
Are you kidding me? I do not see Delta will be a making any profit by 2008 and a large order of 787 or 747 upon exit from BK. And new leather with personal IFE's on all planes? They will be very lucky if they make it even by 2008. I do think Delta will REDUCE capacity therefore Delta will be smaller than it is now. Now, if you think they will give ALL their planes the new leather and personal IFE's, then they will not remove Songs. In any case, Delta will servive. My 2 cents.

Actually, I, many others and maybe even Delta Air Lines see profit by 2008 based on their current transformation plan. The narrow-body/wide-body domestic fleet will continue to be refurbished with leather interiors and PTVs on the 738/757/763/764 fleets. Domestic capacity will be reduced vs. today (making Delta smaller than it is now), while International capacity will continue to increase.

Hmmm...I also see a fleet of Boeing 787s being delivered beginning in 2011/2012 replacing the 763/764 fleet. Delta will also re-evaluate it's 777 fleet and either a) order a few 777-232LRs or b) drop the 777 from the fleet and concentrate on one widebody platform (being the 787).
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
deltaownsall
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:20 pm

That all sounds very nice... As much as I'd love for DL to get some 744's, I really doubt that it will ever happen. They seem to be pretty set on their more efficient twin-engined jets and will probably stick to that, especially in their current and forecasted fiscal situation. What I would really like to see is Asian expansion, which seems reasonable considering the boom in that part of the world and the endless future business possibilities there. I'll be content though just as long as DL sticks around...they've been my carrier for life and I'd really hate to see them go...its funny how airlines become sentimental like that.
 
adriaticus
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 28):
Thanks for the nod to the widget-lovers. Some of us go out of our way (including more than one connection) to fly on the widget. Why? Because some of us have experienced, at least one time, the true Delta spirit that so many of DL's employees exhibit.



Quoting DeltaOwnsAll (Reply 29):
I'll be content though just as long as DL sticks around...they've been my carrier for life and I'd really hate to see them go...its funny how airlines become sentimental like that.

Ditto on both counts.

Long live, Delta; keep up the best service among US carriers servicing Mexico.

__Ad.
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deltamd88
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 5):
As for some 744s...I'm pretty sure DL's plan is to stick with twinjets.

Agreed, DL just finished off their tri-jet fleet  Sad to have an all twin, I cant see them going back to using anything with more engines than two although a 747 would be nice. As for the leather and IFE, if DL wants to become the largest international carrier from the US they NEED to do this, maybe not the leather, but most deff. the personal tv's. They will also need to step up their in-flight service with amenity kits in all cabins and better food. I REALLY hope what the pilots said comes true, it will be great to see Delta flying high again! Maybe like another CO?!  Wink
 
phuebner
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting N917ME (Reply 15):
How many TWA employees still work at American??? not many.

My father worked for TWA for 37 years. A week after 9/11 he lost his job. Luckily he was able to retire with benefits. When 9/11 occurred the personnel that American laid off were the TWA employees. The most senior TWA pilots were brought into American at a much reduced seniority. American pretty well treated the TWA employees with disrespect. Granted I might seem bitter, I still like to fly American. If anything, it helps ensure my father gets to keep his benefits.
Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
 
AirlineAV8tr
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 32):
American pretty well treated the TWA employees with disrespect. Granted I might seem bitter, I still like to fly American. If anything, it helps ensure my father gets to keep his benefits

And from what I've heard as well, you have every right to feel that way.
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:08 pm

I'd much rather see DL survive than NW at this point...I'm glad to hear that the likelihood of a strike is minimal at best. Hopefully DL can pick up some good employees from what's left of NW and forge ahead to bluer, less turbulent skies.

Coming from a UA family, I've always heard good things about DL, and I wish them and their employees the best. I don't agree with how things are being handled at NW at all (not like UA are saints, but that's a different, well hashed thread already) and perhaps they deserve to fail.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
rdwelch
Posts: 449
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RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:31 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 11):
My father used to fly Delta, if he needed to go to Atlanta, Nashville, or Louisville, because Eastern's food was plain and boring, while Delta had grits on breakfast flights.



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 28):
Because some of us have experienced, at least one time, the true Delta spirit that so many of DL's employees exhibit.

I used to fly to ATL from FLL when I was younger on DL to see my dad who was an instructor for Southern Bell in the 70's. I remember the F Class F/A giving me some extra butter for my grits on the Saturday morning flights. Coke and grits in the morning was the way to go for me as a teen on those flights. I work for an LCC, but I agree with so many of these posts, aside from Coke and UPS, DL going under would be such devastating impact to that region economically.

Even though my dad, (and me for that matter) are ex-USAF guys, he used to always say that DL pilots were the best except when they landed, because they were all ex-USN pilots, and they tended to flare 20 feet high to catch the third wire.

Gus/
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:29 pm

DL is the number 2 civilan employer in the state of Georgia.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:29 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
and will probably go with the 777-LR. I could see them using on the following routes:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
ATL-JNB

Could also be done with a 787-9. Of course, ETOPS could be an issue, though.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
JFK-DEL

Too much competition.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
JFK-Chennai

DL can't even fill the CDG-MAA flight properly, no need to waste an expensive plane like the 77L on that route.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
JFK-BOM

Again, too much competition.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
JFK-JNB

Doubtful whethere there's the demand for both DL and SAA to operate flights on this route.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
ATL-HKG

Could be done with a 787-9.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
ATL-PEK



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
ATL-PVG

Can be done with 772ERs as a combined flight.
Again, as much as I'd love to see the 772LR flying the Widget, DL simply doesn't have the need for it.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:02 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 22):
And other airlines have it much worse. Your still only working 75 hrs a month and more if you want to. Many senior captains will want something there to retire for. Many mid-level captains or senior FO's want to move up and don't want to start all over again after putting in their time "at the bottom." So only the junior FO's are the only ones wiht nothing to lose. Everyone also knows that the end of Delta is not just the end of pilots, but the end of the line for everyone. Dispatchers, gate agents, rampers, scheduling, operations, reservations, flight attendants, cabin service, everyone. The better part of 50,000 lives tumbled by the acts of a few. Not to mention the huge drain it would put on the local Atlanta and Georgia economy for the better part of a decade, probably.

"only 75 hours a month". I hope you're kidding. Yeah, 75 hours is how much you get paid for. I'm sure you realize that 75 hours a month means 16-18 days per month at work AROUND THE CLOCK.

These pilots have a lot more than just their jobs to lose, they have the integrity of the profession in their hands. At some point pilots will put their foot down and quit before they take another paycut, and that point is rapidly approaching at many carriers I'm afraid.

You say flying is "fun". Well, I agree that the actual flying is fun, but what about the unpaid hours before and after each flight that are spent coordinating with gate agents, rampers, passengers, air traffic control, dispatch, managment, etc etc etc. I would hardly call doing that fun, especially since you don't even start to get paid until the plane is moving.
 
GSPITNL
Topic Author
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:10 pm

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 38):

It took exactly 38 posts to go negative  Sad. KAUSpilot, your a very selfish man! You would rather see the pilots strike and put over 50,000-100,000 people out of work than take a pay cut. I'm sure glad your not on the DALPA BOD! People like you are the reason we have no more Eastern and TWA etc!!! Greed is going to be the killer of you!

Long Live The Widget!! Long Live Delta!!
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 24):
They do not include time spent away from home, sitting around the airport or waiting out delays.

Do you think business travelers don't have the same waiting around airports and waiting out delays? And they work 40+ hours a week.
 
VgnAtl747
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 3:59 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 41):
Do you think business travelers don't have the same waiting around airports and waiting out delays? And they work 40+ hours a week.

Well said!
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
GSPITNL
Topic Author
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:10 pm

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 43):
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 41):
Do you think business travelers don't have the same waiting around airports and waiting out delays? And they work 40+ hours a week.

Well said!

 checkmark 
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:35 am

What bankruptcy judge has not thrown out the labor contracts? The writing is on the wall, and the employees of DL and NW know it. They will not strike. Remember, the union leaders are always the most aggressive people in the union; they have to justify their jobs; and frankly, a lot of rank-and-file are growing weary of their leaders as they have management.

Having said that, DL has a long road to hoe, and profits are not coming anytime soon. At least NW has a strong Asian operation. DL is the most vulnerable legacy carrier:

AA has loads of cash and a fairly competent management;
CO has Newark (one of the strongest O&D markets), cash, and competent management;
NW has Asia and the Tokyo hub;
UA has the Tokyo hub, London Heathrow, and one of the strongest route systems;
US has strong management and somewhat lower costs.

DL has ATL and a strong European network, but both are more vulnerable than what the five carriers above have. Plus, DL management is on par with UA's - questionable at best.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 38):
Trust me, the job isn't so great that these guys will do it for sub-par wages

So your saying being unemployed is better?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 43):
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 41):
Do you think business travelers don't have the same waiting around airports and waiting out delays? And they work 40+ hours a week.

Well said!

Of course I realize this, my mother used to travel multiple times a month on business. However, Otto Pylit's original post said "You're ONLY working 75 hours per month", insinuatiing that while the average Joe at a "real job" works a 40 hour work week which translates into 160 hours per month, pilots are ONLY WORKING 75 hours per month which is very far from true.

Furthermore, SOME business travellers may fly almost as often as pilots do, but I would submit that this would be the exception, rather than the rule, especailly the way companies are cutting back on business travel. And, I highly doubt those business pax are paid by the hour, they are more than likely salaried employees. Let us also not forget that the number of hours that pilots are RESTRICTED to flying per 24 hour period, per month and per year is mandated by the FAA. Joe Business passenger probably doesn't have the same constraints.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
FlyMIX
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:42 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:15 am

I was flying on DL last week, and both crew members were ready and willing to strike.

Nobody, especially the pilots, want DL to fail. But how much can you give away, while management continue to pay themselves at top rates, including bonuses? Many on this site seem to target pilots as greedy because they are a unified group that has had enough of being treated like part of the problem, instead of the solution. How many of you out there consider yourselves overpaid and greedy?

Obviously, DL needs to trim down. But there is a point where the company tries to cross the line and take advantage of the situation. That is clearly what is happening at NW. A strike threat is more about reminding management to treat pilots (and hopefully all employees) with some respect. Negotiate a settlement, and don't just throw out the contract of a labor group that has already shown that they are willing to talk.

As far as increased international travel goes: It will only help if fares stay higher on those routes. With all the US major carriers and many foreign carriers now increasing their international flying, this could be a problem.

I wish the best for all DL employees, from pilots to rampers to gate agents to CFO's and management. As with all carriers here in the USA, further slashing pay is not going to save DL from going under...fixing the business plan and getting a handle on fares and fuel costs will.
 
congaboy
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:48 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 47):
especailly the way companies are cutting back on business travel.

Not really...load factors are higher lately because the biz traveller is returning combined with ASM cutbacks. Personally, I am travelling more now than I did in 2003/2004.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 47):
And, I highly doubt those business pax are paid by the hour, they are more than likely salaried employees.

That's right...which means we get no over-time pay when we are flying on evening flights, doing our email offline or reviewing proposals. I understand your point that 75 hours per month is not your total time at work, and only the time you are paid. When considering how much a pilot is working, certainly door to door is way more than flight hours. FWIW, I have alot of respect for how well the majority of pilots have transitioned from the difference the pilot of 1978 has changed to the pilot of 2005.
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:41 am

Lets face it, times have changed. Most seasoned DELTA regulars bring their own food and entertainment. I prefer safety and on time performance to perks. I'm a DL Million Miler and I see a bunch of caring but bewildered staff hanging on for their dear jobs. I don't know the recipe for success. US airline financial models vary greatly. I can tell you the flights I travel with DELTA are typically 80% capacity or better. Many are oversold and I am paying max fares due to my last minute travel needs. I just hope the revenues earned stay with the organization and don't leave with senior management (options) should the short term results net positive.

Hang in there DELTA pro's, (avoid a strike until there are no further options) "good luck, we're all counting on you!"
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Future Of Delta Airlines

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:56 am

You know, I think the question for many of these employees is, "Do I still like my job, and would I accept my position today at my current pay?"

Continous pay cuts and poor management decisions are tough to live with, and I'm not sure how "beaten down" I would feel if in a similar circumstance.

Having said that, I really believe that each employee must dig down deep and look inside themselves and decide whether they want to continue working at a company they disdain. Because, ultimately, the loser is the individual as they become increasingly frustrated, unhappy, and bitter. It can certainly happen to anyone under trying circumstances.

I would suggest that if you hate your job and the company so much, you would be doing yourself a favor (and those still there who like their jobs and want to work for the company's success) by finding another company to work for. This is not an easy question to answer, but I believe there are hundreds, if not thousands, or airline employees that need to answer it.