gr8slvrflt
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AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:16 pm

Beginning in May: BWI to DTW and BWI to MKE (seasonal) plus MDW to CLT and a 6th MDW to MSP.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060221/nytu062.html?.v=40

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060221/nytu061.html?.v=40
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
fedexexpress
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:21 pm

Where do you think the next Airtran hub will be?? Any thoughts?
"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:22 pm

I wonder if we can expect NW's typical response. Good for FL though, glad to see them boosting the BWI ops.
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cltguy
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:41 pm

AirTran will also be adding a 3rd CLT-BWI flight.

I think the addition of CLT-MDW is a very obvious pre-emptive move by AirTran against SWA. Charlotte has been a looooooooong rumored future destination for SWA and the CLT-MDW and CLT-BWI routes are ones that SWA would obviously run. Will be interesting to see if this delays SWA pending arrival in CLT.

In May AirTran will have 9 flights a day from CLT. 4 to ATL, 3 to BWI, and 2 to MDW all on Boeing 717 aircraft.
 
mlsrar
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:47 pm

This will be their second attempt at MKE-BWI.

I do not foresee NW throwing a CRJ on the route like the first round.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
GSPITNL
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 3):
AirTran will also be adding a 3rd CLT-BWI flight.

I think the addition of CLT-MDW is a very obvious pre-emptive move by AirTran against SWA. Charlotte has been a looooooooong rumored future destination for SWA and the CLT-MDW and CLT-BWI routes are ones that SWA would obviously run. Will be interesting to see if this delays SWA pending arrival in CLT.

In May AirTran will have 9 flights a day from CLT. 4 to ATL, 3 to BWI, and 2 to MDW all on Boeing 717 aircraft.

Would be nice if FL could keep WN from coming into CLT.
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
chase
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:37 pm

MDW-CLT is also a former TZ route, so it jives with AirTran's strategy at MDW of "let's do TZ's old routes out of MDW". Hopefully FL can profit on this route.
 
usairways85
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:43 pm

Didn't FL use CRJ's the last time they served BWI-MKE

MDW-CLT is a good route, but if WN ever enters CLT they will likely be able to swing the advantage on the route their way pretty easily. They have the ability to throw more aircraft on the route. In the course of a year MDW-PHL went from 3 or 4 to 9 flts a day.
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 7):
Didn't FL use CRJ's the last time they served BWI-MKE

Yes, IIRC this routing was one of the last RJ flights before the contract between Air Wisconsin and FL expired.

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 4):
This will be their second attempt at MKE-BWI.

I do not foresee NW throwing a CRJ on the route like the first round.

True, but they'll still have to fight off YX who flies a 328 on the route.
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:05 am

AirTran needs to start staking out a claim in certain markets because their options are somewhat limited. These are probably good moves over the long term. The BWI-DTW market has been begging for a competitor for many years.

As far as NW's response, I'm sure they will respond, but AirTran understands NW very well. Bob Fornaro was Senior VP at NW in the early 1990s and many of the current VPs at NW worked for him - there are no illusions there. Everyone knows everyone quite well.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 2):
I wonder if we can expect NW's typical response

You mean near ancient aircraft?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
firstclasser
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:21 am

Do you think there would be a market for ISP? I know southwest has a stronghold, but would it be suicidal for them to enter another airport in the NYC area? LGA can be a headache, and they have more destinations than B6. I think that ISP-MDW would be a great routing, as people would prefer FL over SWA
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:26 am

BWI-MKE is the one that puzzles me. I thought that route was always a poor performer (MKE in general a poor performer for FL). You would think if FL is limited aircraft wise, they would want to focus where they have been more successfull (IND, SRQ, CAK, MDW, etc..).

MDW-MSP must be getting better in light of gaining another flight. The last time I read about that route, on this board, the loads were light.

Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
airtran737
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:29 am

MKE-BWI was a good route in the summer months, thus it's only a seasonal flight. We used to have two mainline a day on it, then we added a CRJ, shortly there after we went to CRJ's only and then we dropped it all together after NW announced it. It's good to know that FL realizes that MKE is still alive.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:32 am

I forgot about NW being off this route now. That should surely help.
 
airtran737
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:43 am

NW dropped MKE-BWI last summer. I don't think they will be starting it up again.


filler
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:52 am

Yep sounds like they are moving in on NWA routes in case the pilots strike.....The DTW route is a big one for NWA and to have Airtran move in spells trouble for NWA...... I don't see the strike lasting to long if at all. Bush will step in and order everyone back to work....We will have to wait and see on the 24th on what happens.
 
toltommy
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:39 am

I think it's great news for those of us close to DTW! DTW-BWI flights start at $59 each way, never could figure out why WN never flew the route. Just e-mailed my sister who lives in BWI, now it'll make more sense for her to fly home.

roughly how many daily flights does FL operate at BWI now?
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:45 am

DTW must be working out pretty well. Other than the FNT-LAS and IND-SFO, LAX , I'm not aware of any retaliation by NW against FL. Kind of unusual.
 
73G
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 17):
roughly how many daily flights does FL operate at BWI now?

Currently, there are 35 departures out of BWI:

BOS x 8
ATL x 6
MCO x 4
TPA x 3
FLL x 3
ROC x 3
DAY x 3
CLT x 2
RSW x 1
FPO x 1
SRQ x 1
 
chase
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:46 am

I'm wondering when we'll see BWI-IND on FL?
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:55 am

Looks like FL has picked up the former FLYI gate at CLT for a 2nd gate. I'd say more FL flying in CLT is on the way.

http://www.airtran.com/cities/charlottenc.aspx
 
Mexicana757
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:18 am

Glad to see FL add another destination out of MDW. And CLT is a great choice as there is no one on the MDW-CLT route. ATA was on it and of course dropped it. US used to be on this route 3X daily but with CRJs, but that was around three years ago.

I guess FL will have the fourth gate by May at MDW. Lets see what other routes FL has up their sleeve out of MDW. A MDW-SFO flight would work for them since ATA will be dropping out of the route sometime in April.

Quoting Firstclasser (Reply 11):
I think that ISP-MDW would be a great routing, as people would prefer FL over SWA

I dont think FL would ever open MDW-ISP. They arleady have MDW-EWR, and if they need more flights to the NYC area, I'm sure they would add more frequencies to this route.
 
sbagdon
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:21 am

NW's response, for DTW/BWI?

5/24, same day? $958.

5/25, same day? $138.

Steve B.
 
ORDagent
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:04 am

The FL rep was in my office here in Chicago last week. They are very confident that they can make money on the old TZ routes as they will have less capacity. Securing the fourth gate has been top priority for MDW. They are really wanting a east/west hub. My bet is on IND as it is finishing an expansion for an airline that has seriously downsized (TZ).
 
Indy
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 24):
Securing the fourth gate has been top priority for MDW. They are really wanting a east/west hub. My bet is on IND as it is finishing an expansion for an airline that has seriously downsized (TZ).

Having to fight just to get a 3rd or 4th gate pretty much eliminates an airport from hub contention. Just no room in MDW. Don't know if they will do it in IND or not. If they will add another hub at all. BTW I don't think the expansion was for TZ which btw has completely pulled out as far as passenger ops go in IND. The current airport was built in the 1960's. Replacing the terminal was necessary if you really wanted to compete. The extra space is just a bonus.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
congaboy
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:14 am

Just as WN went after US, looks like FL is smelling blood in Eagen, MN. Let the games continue...
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Chase (Reply 6):
MDW-CLT is also a former TZ route, so it jives with AirTran's strategy at MDW of "let's do TZ's old routes out of MDW". Hopefully FL can profit on this route.

The 738s were always way too much airplane for MDW-CLT. FL ought to be able to make it work with 717s.

On another note, I think it's interesting that FL hasn't tried MDW-BWI. Both are large stations for them, but it's definitely a WN route.

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 26):
Just as WN went after US, looks like FL is smelling blood in Eagen, MN. Let the games continue...

BWI-MKE is hardly a strike against NW...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 27):
BWI-MKE is hardly a strike against NW...

That isn't a strike, but all the new DTW, MSP and IND flights are.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 26):
Just as WN went after US, looks like FL is smelling blood in Eagen, MN. Let the games continue...

Don't you mean the way Delta smelled blood by going after both US Airways and Indy Air and bankrupting themselves in the process.

Southwest isn't going after US Airways or United, per se, WN is filling in gaps at large O&D markets where fares are too high. They are picking the markets with the most long-term opportunity. AirTran is doing the same thing. They are not looking for a fight with Northwest - they are a conservative company that is looking for long-term opportunities, just like Southwest.

Delta and American, on the other hand, are chasing market share in short-term markets, i.e. Delta to anywhere AirTran or jetBlue flies, American DAL-STL/MCI. That's the best way to lose a lot of money. At least with AA, they probably believe delaying the repeal of the WA by going into DAL is cheaper than rolling over.
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 27):
BWI-MKE is hardly a strike against NW...

No, but BWI-DTW certainly cuts into the hub premium that NW can't be happy about. After all...

Quoting Sbagdon (Reply 23):
NW's response, for DTW/BWI?

5/24, same day? $958.

5/25, same day? $138.

And the 6th MSP-MDW flight further assures NW will maintain their slim, if not negative, margins on that route too.

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 30):
No, but BWI-DTW certainly cuts into the hub premium that NW can't be happy about.

No one likes competition, but a direct attack on NW? I remain skeptical. It's more like an opportunity to offer lower fares than the incumbent carrier. If that constitutes smelling blood, then so be it. Just for the record, I mean to type DTW-MDW in my original post.

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 30):
And the 6th MSP-MDW flight further assures NW will maintain their slim, if not negative, margins on that route too.

I don't think NW operates that route for O&D... the high-yielding O&D is at ORD, which would explain the smaller aircraft and greater frequency up there. If FL thinks they can stimulate more O&D than is there, again it's hardly an attack on NW.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:14 am

Can anyone here comment on how DTW-ATL, MCO, SRQ; MSP-MDW is performing load wise? I would suspect they are filling up the aircraft very well.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 32):
Can anyone here comment on how DTW-ATL, MCO, SRQ; MSP-MDW is performing load wise? I would suspect they are filling up the aircraft very well.

I flew MDW-MSP on TZ a couple of times and was always surprsied about how full it was-- not that they filled the plane (because they didn't), but because they were able to do exactly what I suggested that FL had to do on MDW-MSP: stimulate O&D that isn't there now. After all, it's not a bad drive if you have the time. I would imagine that FL is real successful on the route. There are certainly people going up to the twin cities... it's a matter of keeping them from driving or taking the train.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 31):
No one likes competition, but a direct attack on NW? I remain skeptical. It's more like an opportunity to offer lower fares than the incumbent carrier.

True enough, this is far from a shot across the NW bow directly, but an increase in competition anywhere where NW solely enjoys said hub premium indeed puts pressure on NW if only in a post hoc fashion.

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 34):

True enough, this is far from a shot across the NW bow directly, but an increase in competition anywhere where NW solely enjoys said hub premium indeed puts pressure on NW if only in a post hoc fashion.

I would agree with that... it would help if I hadn't made the stupid typo in my first post (must have been thinking about my own flight to MKE on Friday).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Midway737
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 16):
Bush will step in and order everyone back to work....We will have to wait and see on the 24th on what happens.

I doubt Bush will help. He didn't help with United(?) when it when on strike last time during his administration.

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 22):
I guess FL will have the fourth gate by May at MDW

Already plan to have 4 gates by now. It been announced last month.
 
N742AT
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Midway737 (Reply 36):
Already plan to have 4 gates by now. It been announced last month.

Well last time I had a chat with VP Jack Smith he said we would be only using 3.5 gates in MDW, that we would not get control of the last gate we would be borrowing it for now. By the end on summer he said that MDW is expected have 40 flights which we be extremely hard with 3.5 gate, but he said we would have to make it work.
 
stlgph
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:45 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see Indianapolis to Baltimore come in the near future.

Not thinking that Indianapolis will be a hub hub in the future, but perhaps more of a stop over. Flights from BWI stop in IND before heading out to LAX or SFO, or eventually SEA, etc.

I suspect that Baltimore sees Air Tran 737's or is it an all 717 station...anyone fill me in please?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jerion
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 32):
Can anyone here comment on how DTW-ATL, MCO, SRQ; MSP-MDW is performing load wise? I would suspect they are filling up the aircraft very well.

I fly MSP-MDW on FL once a month (usually flying out on Fri and returning on Sun evening) and the flights are pretty full. Business Class fills up quick.

I love the 717's!
L10/D9S/D10/M80/M88/732/733/734/735/73G/738/72S/757/762/763/320/319/318/ERJ
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:53 am

   yes! thank you!!! finally airtran starts increasing their service hear in MKE, to bad its only seasonal but a good start, finally a good use for FL's second gate
btw - is it 2 flights for BWI-MKE because it shows two at the bottom of the press release

[Edited 2006-02-22 01:08:45]
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
Mexicana757
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Midway737 (Reply 36):
Already plan to have 4 gates by now. It been announced last month.

Do you know which gates FL is using? I know they have been moved to A10 and A12. Are the other two gates A14 and A16?

Off topic, do you know or anyone else here, who currently is using gates A4A and A4B?
 
hoosiercfi
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:38 am

[quote=Sbagdon,reply=23]NW's response, for DTW/BWI?

5/24, same day? $958.

5/25, same day? $138.[/quote

I wonder if NW will ever learn that monopoly pricing irritates and angers most people to the point that it tarnishes their name.

Most other airlines have priced their monopoly flights accordingly, so they aren't ripe for the picking.

Everyone knows US as a carrier that would charge $1000+ for a short flight from CLT, and Charlotte residents practically begged for someone to come in and take down US.

Who wants to bet that Detroit and Minneapolis residents are hoping for the same thing?
 
pilottim747
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
I flew MDW-MSP on TZ a couple of times and was always surprsied about how full it was-- not that they filled the plane (because they didn't), but because they were able to do exactly what I suggested that FL had to do on MDW-MSP: stimulate O&D that isn't there now.

Don't forget that FL has also tried hard to get the MSP-BOS and MSP-EWR markets by having short connection times at MSP. Fares to BOS certainly have dropped and I wouldnt be surprised if EWR fares are lower as well.

Also, some people going to southern destinations (CLT, DFW, MCO, and SRQ) can connect in MDW instead of ATL (yeah, FL flies MSP-MCO but its only one flight daily).

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
N742AT
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 38):
I suspect that Baltimore sees Air Tran 737's or is it an all 717 station...anyone fill me in please?

FL operates both 737's and 717's out of BWI. Just started most recently doing 737's in BWI, its only on one or two flights a day though.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:56 am

From BWI, 73Gs are flying to ATL, BOS, FLL, MCO & TPA.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
quickmover
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 43):
Don't forget that FL has also tried hard to get the MSP-BOS and MSP-EWR markets by having short connection times at MSP. Fares to BOS certainly have dropped and I wouldnt be surprised if EWR fares are lower as well.

Also, some people going to southern destinations (CLT, DFW, MCO, and SRQ) can connect in MDW instead of ATL (yeah, FL flies MSP-MCO but its only one flight daily).

FL has also taken up a 2nd gate at MSP. Certainly more space than they need right now, which will mean more MSP flights to somewhere.
 
N742AT
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 32):
Can anyone here comment on how DTW-ATL, MCO, SRQ; MSP-MDW is performing load wise? I would suspect they are filling up the aircraft very well.

DTW has been a great city for FL. We now fly two runs to MCO daily, most flights to ATL are more that 85% full, the SRQ run just started but I suspect it will do well. Now the MSP-MDW run is pretty much hit and miss there is one flight a day to MSP that is always full but the other flights are hit and miss, more good days than bad since we are adding a 6th MSP-MDW.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:09 am

I don't think NW is too surprised to see competition on DTW-BWI, everyone thought Southwest would've added this route years ago, since they have no service to the East out of DTW.

AirTran has been applying for SCASD grants to launch FNT-BWI service for the past 3-4 years, and been rightfully unsucessful each time. FNT is too large a market and too close to DTW to be awarded SCASD money when there are smaller communities that can desperately use the assistance to expand air service. FNT could hold its own. In fact prior to the DTW suprise announcement back in August for service that started in November, NW was probably expecting AirTran to fly BWI-FNT at some point in the future.

One must now really begin to question AirTran's long-term commitment to FNT. Are they really growing market share in Southeastern Michigan, or is DTW poaching their base at FNT. My opinion is that it is a little of both.

Also, looking at the flight times, the service really is not very effective for business travel, at least for Detroit-based passengers.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: AirTran Adds New Flights From BWI & MDW

Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 5):
Would be nice if FL could keep WN from coming into CLT

Why? Being self-employed, seems you would like lower fares, no matter the airline! ‘No low-fare rival? You’ll pay’ http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/business/13892239.htm

Quoting Chase (Reply 6):
MDW-CLT is also a former TZ route, so it jives with AirTran's strategy at MDW of "let's do TZ's old routes out of MDW". Hopefully FL can profit on this route.

It was a good route for TZ. I don't know what the average loads were, but I commuted and it was normally around 120 or so. I guess not enough yield, but many people I talked to in CLT had not ever heard of ATA. Definitely a marketing problem there. I know FL will do a lot better job or advertising. Good luck FL!

M

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