User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3795
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:59 pm

Lufthansa will place an add on order for more A380's according to their CEO and he also comments on the 747-8

Fair use excerpt

By Vicki Kwong and Susanna Ray
Feb. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's second-largest airline, plans to buy more Airbus SAS A380 planes to replace or add to its fleet of long-range aircraft, Chief Executive Officer Wolfgang Mayrhuber said.

``We definitely will grow the A380 fleet in the long term,'' he said, without giving a time frame.

``We have 15 firm orders for the A380 and five options, and anything above and beyond that for our long-range fleet hasn't yet been decided,'' said Michael Goentgens, a Lufthansa spokesman in Frankfurt.


On the 747

Mayrhuber said ``options are growing'' if the airline wants to add to its fleet of Boeing 747s. ``We're looking at this airplane,'' Mayrhuber said. ``We have no firm assessment.'' Lufthansa operates 29 Boeing 747-400s, according to it's website.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
jush
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:10 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:01 pm

Well that Lufthansa is considering the 748 is no suprise to me. They wanted this aircraft years ago and already said it.

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``We have no firm assessment.''

I hope they will have one soon - they always said they are interest but nothing firm yet. Let�s hope they will decide soon that they will buy it.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
nijltje
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:26 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:58 pm

It's a good sign if a company wants to place an add on order for a plane not even in commercial use. To me LH has a lot confidence in the A380, no?
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting Nijltje (Reply 3):
To me LH has a lot confidence in the A380, no?

They've re-ordered A340-600s too and have a fleet of A330s so it seems they are well pleased with Airbus widebodies. And that's not to mention the biggest fleet anywhere of A343s. They obviously love the 747 too but, yes, they seem to have confidence in Airbus.
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3795
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:05 pm

Quoting Nijltje (Reply 3):
It's a good sign if a company wants to place an add on order for a plane not even in commercial use. To me LH has a lot confidence in the A380, no?

Exactly. That is why I posted the thread. Unfortunately I would be in breach of Copyright if I posted more on the article. Once the story has been "on the wire" for a certain period of time a search via the link I provide will give the full interview and Mr Mayrhuber's comments on the A380 are very positive in relation to their view on the delays the program has had. I feel they will exercise their options sooner rather than later after reading them.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:10 pm

I personally hope LH is going to order additional A388´s , probably some A388F´s and a huge order for the A350 this year.

The replacement of the B744 could be a little downgrade in capacity with the order of B777-300ER´s.Probably with some facilities in the lower deck as incorporated in the A346 to get add floor space in the main deck.This could result in a 370 to 380 seat config in 3-class layout.

So they would have a (long awaited) Boeing order and would replace the B744 with a very capable airplane.

In summary they would extend their modern A388 and A330/340-fleet with the most logical choice and add. would have the B777-300ER as the best replacement for the B744.

Johnny  Smile
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:34 pm

If there is a new Boeing in LHs future, its the 747-8.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 7):
If there is a new Boeing in LHs future, its the 747-8.

I agree - the question that LH (and many other airlines) is considering is whether is needs an aircraft to slot inbetween the A346 and the A388.....and do the economics of maintaining another type in the fleet work out. LH currently has 29 744s in its fleet - with 15 A380s on order (and followup orders to come).....we are not talking about a huge number of 744s left over that will need replacement, and some 744 routes will also be flown by A346s possibly with increased frequency. On the other hand, there is expansion to consider, with LH needing all the capacity it can get at FRA and continued growth at Munich, and in the coming years LH will look to begin replacement of its A343 fleet (my prediciton is that the A343s will be very slowly phased out over time). LH could move to an A333/A346/747-8/A380 long haul fleet.

My guess is that we will see a LH order for the 747-8 in the future.....say for about 15 pax aircraft and additionally some cargo aircraft. Only a guess.
 
jush
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:10 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
My guess is that we will see a LH order for the 747-8 in the future.....say for about 15 pax aircraft and additionally some cargo aircraft. Only a guess.

Nice assessment of the situation but I don't think they will opt for Cargo 748s.

Not gonna happen IMO.

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``We definitely will grow the A380 fleet in the long term,'' he said, without giving a time frame.

To what level...20-25 A380s? Sounds to me like they would rather dump their remaining 744s and ignore the 747-8.

Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out... arrow 
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 9):
Nice assessment of the situation but I don't think they will opt for Cargo 748s

IMO, LH will not order pax748s, I can see LH having around 25 A380s and 5 B748Fs to replace some of the MD-11s. For some reason I cannot see any airline ordering pax A380 and B748s, the operational cost of running a moderate fleet of the 2 largest commercial aircraft would be staggering.

On a side note, I flew YYZ-FRA last year on a LH B744(ABVL), most uncomfortable cabin I have ever been flown trans-atlantic in. The seat killed my back, pitch was way less than AC or BA, food was indigestible and the FA's turned of the airshow so I was sitting in a dark 744 cabin staring at the wall for 3 hrs, horrible!! On the other hand, FRA-BUD on LH A321 was on of the best short-haul flights ever!!

Krisyyz
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out...  

Plain wrong. LH is very sensitive when it comes to the point of becoming dependent on one manufacturer. Surely it will stay an airline mainly flying Busses, but I´m sure there´ll be new Boeings in LHs fleet - when the product and price makes sense. The 747-8 as pax-aircraft and as freighter might as there is no alternative if you need exactly that size, as well as possibly the 787, and maybe the 772LRF in the distant future when the MD-11Fs get old by LH standards around 2015, or they want to expand with a similar-sized aircraft. 777 pax I don´t see at all. The big Airbus widebody fleet of same size and the huge maintenance base for them makes that almost unthinkable.
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5006
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:54 pm

What engines for LH´s A388?

Thx

Micke//SE  Confused
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 13):
What engines for LH´s A388?

RR
 
PlaneDane
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:08 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``We definitely will grow the A380 fleet in the long term,'' he said, without giving a time frame.

To what level...20-25 A380s? Sounds to me like they would rather dump their remaining 744s and ignore the 747-8.

Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out...

Agreed. LH will be all Airbus before too long.

I don't really know why any Boeing aircraft are even being mentioned anymore other than to extract better pricing from Airbus. Airbus must surely know this as well.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6807
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:09 am

The 747-8 is too little too late for LH. They wanted it before the A380 came along but now they have the A380. And you can forget about the freighter version too. Mr. Mayrhuber has made it clear recently that LH Cargo would rather convert used aircraft rather than buy new ones.
 
wdleiser
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
To what level...20-25 A380s? Sounds to me like they would rather dump their remaining 744s and ignore the 747-8.

Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out...

Lufthansa will not be all Airbus. The 737's are old makes (300/500's). They already have lots of Airbus narrowbodies so it only makes sense to keep them. Lufthansa still flies plenty of 747's and I believe they will fly what will make them the most money. The political pressure on Lufthansa by Airbus and the EU to me does not work as well compared other nations. Lufthansa is a business and will make their decision based on the proper aircraft.


What I don't understand is why Boeing didn't make a 747 the same size as the 744 but with new and improved engines and wings while also making the 748.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:55 am

No mention of the 787 for LH? Do the A330's and A32X's fill their European needs or could there be a need for 787-3's??? Just a question. I don't think the 777 has a place at LH. If they are pleased with teh A346's operation (and they do seem to be pleased) then there is no need for the 777-3ER. The 747-8 Pax and Cargo seem to make some sense- but that depends on LH forcasts for the future. It seems to me thast with the A350, LH will not have any need for for Boeing widebodies. 747 routes get upgraded to A380, or downgraded to 2x widebodies i.e A350/ A340 and with a combination of A350/ A340 surely they can MATCH the 747's capacity. Honestly, I think Lh will become an all Airbus customer (even if they don't intend it, simply because Airbus a/c seem to fill ALL their needs. Boeing may have a chance in the second wave of competition in about 10 years with new S/H and some L/H. And then the EU/ Airbus pressure may be much less since Airbus seems to be outsourcing a lot more- China, Dubai, Russia, India.

Sorry for the long-winded 'speech' but that's my TT$0.01 (=£0.001)

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
B742
Posts: 3559
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:26 am

Good luck to both Airbus and Boeing for future orders, I realy hope they go for additional A380's and 747-8's!  Smile

Imagine the A380, 747-8 and A346 in one fleet, awesome! The only thing their missing is the 77W  Wink  cloudnine 

Rob!  wave 
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:30 am

This forum seems to always overlook one reason why LH must operate and express interest in buying more WhaleJets. LH very much needs a third runway at FRA (whether or not they operate the WhaleJet). If LH were not taking full advantage of the WhaleJet, the opponents of the new runway could argue that it is not needed, that use of (or increased use of) the WhaleJet would obviate the need for a new runway. By buying, operating, and saying they intend to buy more WhaleJets, LH eliminate part of their opponents' case against the new runway. Until the new runway is approved, LH absolutely must say they will buy more WhaleJets -- even if it were transparently obvious that LH don't need any more.
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:37 am

If they do get 748s I hope they will fit Y class with PTVs.

Saying that, I hope they will do this on the 380s as well.



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
Lp0815
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
By buying, operating, and saying they intend to buy more WhaleJets, LH eliminate part of their opponents' case against the new runway.

Why does this depend solely on buying the A 380?
Wouldn't it be enough for LH to say: we increase our fleet with abc type of aircraft?
That and the predicted growth of LH traffic and traffic in general ex/to FRA should be sufficient as argument, shouldn't it?
Time waits for nobody
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17057
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
This forum seems to always overlook one reason why LH must operate and express interest in buying more WhaleJets. LH very much needs a third runway at FRA (whether or not they operate the WhaleJet). If LH were not taking full advantage of the WhaleJet, the opponents of the new runway could argue that it is not needed, that use of (or increased use of) the WhaleJet would obviate the need for a new runway. By buying, operating, and saying they intend to buy more WhaleJets, LH eliminate part of their opponents' case against the new runway. Until the new runway is approved, LH absolutely must say they will buy more WhaleJets -- even if it were transparently obvious that LH don't need any more.

I am shocked that politics would enter into it! Shocked I tell you!!! Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 22):

Why does this depend solely on buying the A 380?
Wouldn't it be enough for LH to say: we increase our fleet with abc type of aircraft?
That and the predicted growth of LH traffic and traffic in general ex/to FRA should be sufficient as argument, shouldn't it?

The runway opponents will -- if given the opportunity -- present the argument that growth in the number of passengers can be accomodated either by building a new runway or by operating larger aircraft that accomodate more passengers per flight. LH must be able to answer that by saying "We already operate the largest airliner available and we intend to buy more of them. Despite that, we still need the new runway."

If, hypothetically, Airbus were ever to offer a stretched WhaleJet (before FRA's third runway is approved), LH would be forced to pursue it whether they had a place for it in their fleet or not.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8530
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:08 am

That is no argument against the runway opponents. "The A380 needs more feeder flights to fill" is what they say in return. The 4th runway at FRA is needed in any case, the present siutaion is that most if not all LH growth takes place in MUC which might have a third runway earlier than FRA has their 4th.

The blockade and the threat of a night curfew is holding back investments at LH Cargo and is preventing the creation of new jobs in the Frankfurt area.

Still, I believe that LH will go for the 747-8 and eventually might run a mixed cargo fleet of 777Fs and 747-8f, the latter may be under the JADE flag.
powered by Eierlikör
 
A319XFW
Posts: 1519
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:41 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:27 am

LH has now got 3 hubs - FRA, MUC and ZRH (with Swiss).
Does anyone think that they will expand the A380 from FRA to the other 2 hubs? But they did say that they wanted to keep Lufthansa and Swiss seperate. And perhaps MUC and ZRH don't have the traffic to justify an A380 (yet?).
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11744
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 24):
We already operate the largest airliner available and we intend to buy more of them. Despite that, we still need the new runway."

Interesting note. That new runway is direly needed... as well as new runways or runway reconfigurations at a few dozen other airports! (LHR, NRT, and SFO are the only ones I'd argue *need* runway additions/reconfiguration more than FRA.)

If LH does buy more A380's, that will really help Airbus sell more to other airlines (the old vote of confidence).

When does LH receive its first A380? Does LAX generate enough traffic for LH to fly the A388 there?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
wdleiser
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:58 am

If LH buys the 777 it will be for Lufthansa Cargo. I believe they are strongly interested in the 777LRF.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
Mr. Mayrhuber has made it clear recently that LH Cargo would rather convert used aircraft rather than buy new ones.

When did he say that? One of the reasons LH was angry with Boeing when they shut down the MD11 line was that they were actually forced to buy used planes, something they did not want to do at all!

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 22):
Wouldn't it be enough for LH to say: we increase our fleet with abc type of aircraft?
That and the predicted growth of LH traffic and traffic in general ex/to FRA should be sufficient as argument, shouldn't it?

No, won't work - as much as I like this town (and, yes, I really do like Frankfurt), but that arguement certainly won't work here... actually, it wouldn't work anywhere in Germany.

But considering what was printed in this article (sorry, but it's in German)...
http://www.ftd.de/ub/in/50824.html
... with the comment "Nach dem Kauf weiterer Maschinen würde keine Gesellschaft mehr Flugzeuge dieses Typs nutzen" (After further purchases, no airline will operate more planes of this type) - I'm really interested in seeing what they're planning... after all: EK has quite a bit of a headstart in numbers.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
bolu340
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:36 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:39 am

Hi to everybody!!

Watch LH ordering this year more A340-500/600 as well as B787 and 747-8.

LH needs an a/c to replace A306 plus they need extra capacity in FRA plus they need an a/c between A346 and A380.

It has been rumoured, LH plans in about 3-4 years to move all A340 fleet to MUC and leave FRA with A380 and maybe B747-8...

Don´t forget a A306 replacement is badly needed in FRA to feed all those A380.

And do not expect very soon the 4th runway in FRA...MUC will get its 3rd one earlier.

Best regards
 
airbazar
Posts: 6807
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
This forum seems to always overlook one reason why LH must operate and express interest in buying more WhaleJets. LH very much needs a third runway at FRA

A third Runway at FRA is a Fraport issue not a Lufthansa issue. Buying more A380's is a LH issue not a Fraport issue. They are not related. I don't think Fraport will stop persuing a 3rd runway only because LH decides to buy more A380's or vice-versa. Many other airlines besides LH will be operating the A380 at FRA. In fact, LH may not even be the largest operator of A380's at FRA.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 31):

A third Runway at FRA is a Fraport issue not a Lufthansa issue. Buying more A380's is a LH issue not a Fraport issue. They are not related.

You think LH are neutral on the question of a new runway at FRA? Or you think that the bureaucrats will not take into account LH's operations in deciding the question?
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 31):
In fact, LH may not even be the largest operator of A380's at FRA.

Er, I bet they will be!
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 5):
Unfortunately I would be in breach of Copyright if I posted more on the article.

Why not just post a link to the article?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...100&sid=aap47tbn_nKo&refer=germany

[Edited 2006-02-23 22:15:18]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
A350
Posts: 1010
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
We have 15 firm orders for the A380 and five options...

And I always thought LH has ten options for the A380  confused 

A350
 
Lp0815
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 31):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
This forum seems to always overlook one reason why LH must operate and express interest in buying more WhaleJets. LH very much needs a third runway at FRA

A third Runway at FRA is a Fraport issue not a Lufthansa issue. Buying more A380's is a LH issue not a Fraport issue.

Erm,
last time I counted FRA already had three runways...
Time waits for nobody
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
LH could move to an A333/A346/747-8/A380 long haul fleet.

LH definitely need something for new respectively thin&long routes ... i.e. A350 or B787

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 15):
Agreed. LH will be all Airbus before too long.

Something wrong does not become true when it's repeated all the time .. they are more than clear statements from LH on this.

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 17):
What I don't understand is why Boeing didn't make a 747 the same size as the 744 but with new and improved engines and wings while also making the 748.

The 773ER is just too close to the 744, which most cariers also fly with not more than 400 seats ..
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3795
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 34):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 5):
Unfortunately I would be in breach of Copyright if I posted more on the article.

Why not just post a link to the article?

If you had quoted my full sentence you would realise that the article is embargoed for Bloomberg Subscribers only for a period of time. 12 hours later it's released for general use. Which is why, 12 hours later, you can provide a full link. At the time, posting the full article would be in breach of Forum rules.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 29):
... with the comment "Nach dem Kauf weiterer Maschinen würde keine Gesellschaft mehr Flugzeuge dieses Typs nutzen" (After further purchases, no airline will operate more planes of this type) - I'm really interested in seeing what they're planning... after all: EK has quite a bit of a headstart in numbers.

Leskova My German is rather poor, is this quote in relation to carriers which have currently ordered the A380 not placing follow on orders? Clarification would be appreciated.

As to whether LH actually get's the 748, we'll just have to wait and see. LH Cargo make their own decisions on what they require, but LH Group have always maintained that they will retain 2 suppliers. It will be interesting to see what they do.

Thanks and Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:23 pm

Although LH Technik is a separate company, they are huge maintenance group that as long the number of aircraft at LH is large enough, they could order anything from 737NG (though I doubt it), 787, A350, 77W, 748.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 27):
That new runway is direly needed... as well as new runways or runway reconfigurations at a few dozen other airports! (LHR, NRT, and SFO are the only ones I'd argue *need* runway additions/reconfiguration more than FRA.)

Off topic, but I would add HND to that list too but I won't say whether it needs to be ahead of FRA or not. These airport desparately need runway capacity.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out...

I don't think so. As I've said many times, LH will buy whatever will fit into their business model and I believe they said they will not become an operator of one single manufacturer. Remember that in the past, despite having a fleet dominated by Boeing aircraft, they also operated DC-10s. If there is a choice, then LH will consider it.

So, as for a major longhaul fleet, a possible introduction of the 747-8I on routes, where the A346 is too small and the A380 too big, would make sense. And to wrap it up, a possible order for 787-3s to replace the A300s also sounds reasonable, but my guess is that this order will happen later on, not really soon because those A300s still seem to have some more life in them, unless they are already counting a lot of cycles now, considering that LH also flies them on the FRA-HAM route.

Regarding the question of thje 787-8/9 or the A350, that's a separate matter. LH has introduced brandnew A333s for thinner medium to longhaul routes, so those still have a long life ahead.
 
cslusarc
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:17 pm

I have to be honest with you all. I don't believe that LH would need any 747-8Is in its fleet. I doubt that it would be advantageous for LH to dump its 744s on the second-hand market. I think that LH would continue to operate (some of) their 744s past 2020.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:30 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 40):
And to wrap it up, a possible order for 787-3s to replace the A300s also sounds reasonable, but my guess is that this order will happen later on, not really soon because those A300s still seem to have some more life in them, unless they are already counting a lot of cycles now, considering that LH also flies them on the FRA-HAM route.

Since LH is one airline that always got a very good price for its used aircraft
maybe they will replace their A300s sooner as we think as long as they can still them. The A300-600 is very popular with cargo airlines.
Or is that a very unlikely option ?
I know that LHs A300s have more cycles than anyothers so it is also possible that LH needs to fly them as long as poosible and scrape them afterwards because no other airline would buy them anymore.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 40):

Regarding the question of thje 787-8/9 or the A350, that's a separate matter. LH has introduced brandnew A333s for thinner medium to longhaul routes, so those still have a long life ahead.

Mayrhuber said that they are planning to replace their 737s as well as their A340-300s around 2010. They will decide between 787-8/9 or the A350 this year or 2007.
I guess since they are already in talks with Boing about the 747-8I they are also discussing the 787 as well.
I also think that they have also interest in the 787-10 since Mayrhuber said once they are interested in the longer versions of the A350 and 787.

[Edited 2006-02-24 07:33:45]
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:50 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 38):
Quoting Leskova (Reply 29):
... with the comment "Nach dem Kauf weiterer Maschinen würde keine Gesellschaft mehr Flugzeuge dieses Typs nutzen" (After further purchases, no airline will operate more planes of this type) - I'm really interested in seeing what they're planning... after all: EK has quite a bit of a headstart in numbers.

Leskova My German is rather poor, is this quote in relation to carriers which have currently ordered the A380 not placing follow on orders? Clarification would be appreciated.

Hmm... that's an interesting angle, I hadn't thought of that; but I doubt it has anything to do with other carriers placing follow on orders - after all, just because he manages LH, he doesn't know what's going on in other boardrooms.

What I'm reading from that line is that Mr. Mayrhuber is saying that LH will order further A380s, and as soon as they do, they'll have the largest A380 fleet worldwide, follow-on orders by others or not.

Basically, they seem to be heading towards being able to say "Lufthansa: flying more A380s than anyone else".

Whether or not that happens or not... well, that remains to be seen.

Hope that clarified the quote for you.


As for that ever-lasting LH/Boeing-argument: it's basically worthless.

One side thinks they have strong proof because LH hasn't ordered any Boeings in the last years (quite a few of them completely discounting the possibility that Airbus might simply have had the better overall-offers for LH - often trying the usual nonsense of "political pressure by the EU and Airbus"), while the other side goes by LH's repeated statements that they do not want to be dependant on one manufacturer (then again, we all know that, if the right offer comes along, strategies like this can change without a moment's notice).

In the end, whatever actually does happen: we'll see some time down the line.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:59 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 42):
Since LH is one airline that always got a very good price for its used aircraft
maybe they will replace their A300s sooner as we think as long as they can still them. The A300-600 is very popular with cargo airlines.
Or is that a very unlikely option ?
I know that LHs A300s have more cycles than anyothers so it is also possible that LH needs to fly them as long as poosible and scrape them afterwards because no other airline would buy them anymore.

It seems a bit unlikely now because the delivery slots of the 787 are pretty much booked. But if Boeing is willing to offer them good delivery slots and good prices, then your theory might materialise and we should see the first LH 783 quicker than we think.

Quoting Columba (Reply 42):
Mayrhuber said that they are planning to replace their 737s as well as their A340-300s around 2010. They will decide between 787-8/9 or the A350 this year or 2007.
I guess since they are already in talks with Boing about the 747-8I they are also discussing the 787 as well.
I also think that they have also interest in the 787-10 since Mayrhuber said once they are interested in the longer versions of the A350 and 787.

For the 737 replacement, people might say LH will definitely order more A32X aircraft. But then again, LH has lots of 737 pilots who will need to learn to fly the A32X, while with 737NGs, it might not require a lengthy course, but likely a shorter one. And also, LH operates 737NGs through PrivatAir, so I personally wouldn't rule out the 737NG yet as 737 Classics replacement.

As for widebody longhaul twins, it will be a close call. It could be a race between the A350-900 and the 787-8/9, unless Boeing does launch the 787-10. In any case, LH will decide on those aircraft based on operating economics and a decent range. I personally don't think range will be that important, since those aircraft aren't likely to go very far in terms of range in their network.

That being said, I wonder about the future fleet at DE. I don't know how much influence LH has today when it comes to matters with Condor, since TCX seems to be the majority owner of DE today (I missed the startup of the relationship between TCX and Condor, so please fill me in on this), but if LH was to make a fleet decision for DE, it would definitely be the 787-8, which would serve as an excellent replacement of the 767 fleet DE currently operates on holiday longhaul flights.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:09 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 44):
I don't know how much influence LH has today when it comes to matters with Condor, since TCX seems to be the majority owner of DE today (I missed the startup of the relationship between TCX and Condor, so please fill me in on this), but if LH was to make a fleet decision for DE, it would definitely be the 787-8, which would serve as an excellent replacement of the 767 fleet DE currently operates on holiday longhaul flights.

I think the ownership is still a 50/50 partnership between LH on one side and KarstadtQuelle on the other, with KarstadtQuelle usually focussing on the sales side and LH focussing on the airline operations side, so LH at least has a consulting position (if not a deciding position) whenever DE orders aircraft.

Regarding their history... this page is quite nice:
in German: http://www5.condor.com/tcf-de/geschi...E83B09D77A544E25EF9EB503.as5worker
in English: http://www5.condor.com/tcf-us/histor...7AB6A74DCEB23DB06F631905.as5worker

Interesting to see that they even left the Condor->Thomas Cook->Condor stuff in there...  Wink

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8530
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 31):

A third Runway at FRA is a Fraport issue not a Lufthansa issue. Buying more A380's is a LH issue not a Fraport issue. They are not related. I don't think Fraport will stop persuing a 3rd runway only because LH decides to buy more A380's or vice-versa. Many other airlines besides LH will be operating the A380 at FRA. In fact, LH may not even be the largest operator of A380's at FRA.

It has been mentioned already but the new one will be the 4th runway in FRA, 2 are for take off and landing, one is for take offs only and the new one will be landings only.

The new development was initiated by the former LH CEO Juergen Weber at a speech in FRA in 1995. The new runway is very much a LH issue, as LH is the biggest user in FRA, and the biggest customer for Fraport.

LH has also a 5% share interest in fraport.

As to the 747-8, LH 's CEO Mayrhuber said in SIN that they are looking at the project,like they look at any other new plane. Still, chances they buy some 20 or so are better than the chance that they replace their present 744 fleet 1:1 with 380s.
powered by Eierlikör
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:30 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 45):
I think the ownership is still a 50/50 partnership between LH on one side and KarstadtQuelle on the other, with KarstadtQuelle usually focussing on the sales side and LH focussing on the airline operations side, so LH at least has a consulting position (if not a deciding position) whenever DE orders aircraft.

Regarding their history... this page is quite nice:
in German: http://www5.condor.com/tcf-de/geschi...orker

Thanks for the link and information, Frank!

Quoting Leskova (Reply 45):
Interesting to see that they even left the Condor->Thomas Cook->Condor stuff in there...

Interesting indeed. I've heard lots of stories regarding the reasons why TCX Germany was rebranded back to Condor Flugdienst, but that's a matter for separate discussion.   Thanks again, Frank!

- Richie

[Edited 2006-02-24 08:33:57]
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3795
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 43):
Hope that clarified the quote for you.

It did, don't forget I warned you my German was rather poor  Smile

Quoting Leskova (Reply 43):
In the end, whatever actually does happen: we'll see some time down the line.

I agree, we'll see sometime in the future. I thank you Leskova for your considered response, appreciate it.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
pavlin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:34 am

RE: LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8

Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:26 pm

A380 sure, but no more 747s

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, ASG32Mi, AsiaTravel, Baidu [Spider], BobMUC, changyou, GRJGeorge, ikolkyo, KarelXWB, lightsaber, OO-VEG, Phen, starbucks, steman, tvh, Yahoo [Bot] and 170 guests