ANCFlyer
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AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:00 pm

Yet another pressurization problem with AS . . . two in as many days according to the article.

Things that make you go   .

So, with 110 aircraft in the fleet, and two incidents in two days, four in two months, what's that make the odds? I understand pressurization problems occur occasionally, but I think AS has had it's share.

Excerpts from the quoted source:

An Alaska Airlines flight en route to Seattle landed at Los Angeles International Airport a few minutes after takeoff because of cabin pressure problems, an airline official said

It was the second Alaska flight in as many days to fail to reach its destination because of pressurization problems.

Flight 397 left Ontario International at 6:37 a.m. The MD-80 landed at Los Angeles International,

Alaska Airlines has had three additional similar problems in the last two months.


http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...6-02-23-alaska-emergency-lax_x.htm

[Edited 2006-02-23 15:06:23]

[Edited 2006-02-23 15:07:18]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
qxq400
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:04 am

I believe that there is some union sabatoge going on here. How can and airline operate 100,000 of flights with no problems then in a short while have so many? Either the mechanics are incompetent,OR someone is trying to give AS a bad rap. I for one believe in the second,I do not believe for one second that the Mechanics are missing all these problems. My opion is that there has got to be some Piloits are engaging in a work slow down. I think that they are still mad about there contract and about the whole SEA ramp situation.
Welcome baby Madison Renee
 
pgtravel
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting Qxq400 (Reply 1):
How can and airline operate 100,000 of flights with no problems then in a short while have so many? Either the mechanics are incompetent,OR someone is trying to give AS a bad rap. I for one believe in the second,I do not believe for one second that the Mechanics are missing all these problems. My opion is that there has got to be some Piloits are engaging in a work slow down. I think that they are still mad about there contract and about the whole SEA ramp situation.

I think there's a good chance it's just increased scrutiny from the media. These types of problems do happen, but in the past they wouldn't get picked up. Now that there's the human story of Menzies taking over ramp operations in SEA, the media wants to pick up on everything. Not sure if the frequency of these incidents is normal or not, but I guarantee you they had at least some problems like this before the media attention.

And it doesn't seem like it would be a pilot slowdown. I can't ever imagine a pilot would cause depressurization to get back at the company. Delaying a flight on the ground is one thing, but this is outrageous.
 
cyclonic
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:40 am

Why am I not surprised?? This is AS after all. Looks like they have slipped back to their bad old cost cutting ways.
I hate to say it, but i'm dreading hearing a AS plane having a fatal incident..
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
mbg
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:45 am

Hi,

Wasn't one of the pressurerization related divertions due to a catering truck slamming into the plane and the workers going hush-hush about it?

Cheers,

mbg
 
1011
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:59 am

This happens a lot on all airlines. No big deal. The A/C was N943AS
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:09 am

Anyone have stats on other similiarly sized airline fleets with pressurization problems?

I realize this happens . . . as 1011 has said . . . but two in two days, four in 45 days? I'm certainly no conspiracy theorist by any stretch, however . . . media hype notwithstanding, AS does seem to be having a bout with their pressurization . . .

Quoting 1011 (Reply 5):
No big deal.

Unless you're aboard the aircraft. Seemed to be a big deal when the MD80 with the crease in the side had it's problems . . . . video footage inside the aircraft didn't exactly project a relaxed and complacent atmosphere.

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 2):
Delaying a flight on the ground is one thing, but this is outrageous.

Agreed . . . I can't imagine any pilot doing this purposely . . . even if he/she were mad as hell at the company, this involved putting their own ass on the line as well as the pax and aircraft . . . not going to happen.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:27 am

FYI:
In another thread, someone inaccurately posted that the
oxygen masks dropped. This was not the case.
Simply a matter of 1 of the air conditioning packs having a problem.
Although there have been more events than normal in the past week,
they are magnified because the local Seattle media loves AS bashing.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 7):
Although there have been more events than normal in the past week,
they are magnified because the local Seattle media loves AS bashing.

Apparently so does the local ANC media . . . it was all over up here last night and this morning . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
rwsea
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:21 am

So basically AS has degenerated into an airline where you will get on to the plane at least 90 minutes late, and once you're on, there is a better than average chance that you'll have the pleasure of quickly returning to the ground due to depressurization issues.

Yes these things are blown out of proportion by the media, but they seem to be happening all too much lately. AS certainly isn't doing much to help their rapid decline in reputation.
 
flashmeister
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:36 am

The real question is this: does anyone have the data on pressurization incidents for other carriers? (specifically the number of incidents per total number of cycles for the carrier)

Media reporting or not, comparing these will answer the question at hand.
 
WeAreUnited
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:01 am

Obviously... Alaska is taking this very seriously. See article below. Something does seem to be "odd" about all of these occurrences.

Alaska begins fleet-wide pressurization system inspections.


Checks initiated as additional precaution following recent pressurization-related incidents


February 22, 2006

Alaska Airlines Maintenance and Engineering began a comprehensive, fleet-wide inspection of aircraft pressurization systems today as an additional precaution following a number of recent pressurization-related incidents.

Initial investigations conducted by Maintenance and Engineering, in conjunction with Alaska’s Safety Division, have found no connection between the incidents, except that they all do involve pressurization issues. Nevertheless, the fleet-wide inspections underway will provide an additional safeguard. These checks are above and beyond the regularly scheduled maintenance checks of the pressurization systems on Alaska’s aircraft.

"It is important for us to further satisfy ourselves and the flying public that we have no systemic issues and that we are taking all appropriate steps to prevent a recurrence of these incidents," said Kevin Finan, Alaska’s executive vice president of operations.

Finan noted that when these incidents occur, Alaska’s Safety Division investigates each incident to determine the cause. This involves everything from a complete maintenance inspection of the aircraft to interviews with the crew, depending on the nature of the incident. Following this thorough review, Safety brings forward their findings and any further recommendations to prevent a recurrence.

"Based on the completion of the additional inspections, we may take additional actions," Finan said.
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:30 am

Happens a lot more than the media reports...  yawn 

Anyone have pics of the Cessna 150 the B6 fleet agent ran into in LGB about 3 weeks ago? Practically tore a parked aircraft in half....why wasn't that in the news?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 10):
The real question is this: does anyone have the data on pressurization incidents for other carriers? (specifically the number of incidents per total number of cycles for the carrier)

Previously asked and unanswered . . .

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Anyone have stats on other similiarly sized airline fleets with pressurization problems?

Goes without saying I trust AS . . . however, I don't want to hop on my ANC-LAS flight in a month and have to rtn to ANC because we can't pressurize . . . I will not be one of the widgets freaking out when the masks pop down . . . been there before . . . but I will be concerned about continuing to LAS (and the return). My g/f, well that's a different story . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
as739x
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:40 am

OK, I have not looked into this mornings incident. But if this was a pack issue as the PDX flight, its just media crap. Media and poublic don't understand airplanes, period.

The A/C has to return our divert if the pack goes out. In the PDX-DEN flight, if a pack is out, they are required to fly at 25,000 feet to DEN. More fuel burn and a different flight plan due to the terrain. Same goes if this mornings ONT-SEA flight was the same. Specially with MD80s. The terrain between ONT and SEA is high. If they have to fly without a pack the route of flight takes them direct Cresent City area in NW California. They clearly would not have enought fuel for this.

Those of you so cynical of Alaska knwo AS is a safe airline. Now I may come off defensive, but hey, its my airline and you would all do the same.

I'll look a little more into 934 when I go to work.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
I'll look a little more into 934 when I go to work.

Believe me when I tell you, I have the utmost respect for AS and it's flight deck crews, being a life long Alaskan, I've seen those guys perform miracles on approaches . . . and landings . . . always safe . . . so I mean no affront to AS or it's crews (air or ground).

But one has to wonder - new media hype notwithstanding - so many depressurizations.

I invite any info you have . . . . the 'real deal' not the Channel 2 News or CNN info . . .

Thanks.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Cyclonic (Reply 3):
Why am I not surprised?? This is AS after all. Looks like they have slipped back to their bad old cost cutting ways.
I hate to say it, but i'm dreading hearing a AS plane having a fatal incident..

Typical AS fatalism on a.net, I'm surprised you're the only one in fifteen replies so far.
 
Chugach
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Apparently so does the local ANC media . . . it was all over up here last night and this morning . . .

Seems to me, though, that the Anchorage media isn't nearly as harsh as the Seattle media is about the airline. Seattle's media is downright venemous.

I have always felt far more comfortable flying AS then most other airlines simply because I know how outstanding their crews are. Although I will admit that the Menzies mess in SEA has inspired me to carry on my luggage more than I used to Big grin
GO ROCKETS
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:04 pm

TWO more aircraft, both AS737s returned to ANC today for pressurization problems . . .

Now what? Are we seeing paranoid pilots?? Are we seeing a real effort by some covert force to disrupt AS?

Regardless, this is now 6 aircraft in 45 days, 4 aircraft in 48 hours? I'm sorry, but those odds are not adding up!


http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=3703&z=1
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Chugach
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:16 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
I'm sorry, but those odds are not adding up!

Well, in light of this news, count me among those who are starting to wonder. That must be a fresh news story, too; adn.com and ktva.com haven't picked it up yet. If some scumbag actually is trying to sabotage aircraft, I hope he/she gets what they deserve.
GO ROCKETS
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 19):
. That must be a fresh news story, too; adn.com and ktva.com haven't picked it up yet.

According to the Channel 2 NBC Broadcast at 6pm this evening . . . and the FAA is now investigating . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 17):
Seems to me, though, that the Anchorage media isn't nearly as harsh as the Seattle media is about the airline. Seattle's media is downright venemous.

The Seattle media gets a big chubby from trying to scare people. You get used to it.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
TWO more aircraft, both AS737s returned to ANC today for pressurization problems . . .

Are one of the lastest two Alaska # 65? A local radio station is reporting AS # 65 JNU-ANC depressurized shortly after take off from JNU this afternoon (Thursday) It flew to ANC at about 12,000 feet.

One of the pax interveiwed said it was scary, flying close to some of the mountain tops. She went on too say the flight deck kept them imformed for the duration of the flight. Normal flying time between JNU-ANC is about a one hour and twenty five minutes. Kudo's to the flight deck.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
S12PPL
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:43 pm

I'm beginning to re-think if I want to continue flying AS. They are beginning to have Maint. problems again. I think they need to really get it together....
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
AgnusBymaster
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:48 pm

Personally, I'm going with the paranoid pilots theory. This will probably pass over and nobody will think anything of it in a month or so.
 
cvg2lga
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:30 pm

Quoting Cyclonic (Reply 3):
I hate to say it, but i'm dreading hearing a AS plane having a fatal incident..

Then don't say it and just keep it to yourself. You should be dreading more than AS having a fatal accident ANY airline having a fatal accident. Death is life and life comes to death but its nothing pleasant. I think we all dread hearing of the next fatal accident.
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:49 am

Link from this mornings news report on Channel 2.

http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=3720&z=1

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 22):
Are one of the lastest two Alaska # 65? A local radio station is reporting AS # 65 JNU-ANC depressurized shortly after take off from JNU this afternoon (Thursday) It flew to ANC at about 12,000 feet.

Apparently this is one of the flights. It isn't specifically mentioned in the referenced source, but it was verbally discussed on the news, and confirmed by the AS PR person on the phone from Seattle.

Nothing in the Anchorage Daily News . . . . surprise, surprise.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Goldenshield
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:15 am

Not to sound nit-picky, but a plane can't return to somewhere that it never took off from in the first place.  Wink
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
1011
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:36 am

This is from the JNU newspaper

Alaska Airlines plane bound for Anchorage suffers cabin pressure trouble Alaska Airline flight 65 experienced cabin pressure problems shortly after leaving Juneau bound for Anchorage yesterday afternoon. [Thursday]

Alaska Airlines official Amanda Tobin says about 45 minutes into the flight the flight crew received an initial indication that there might be a issue with cabin pressurization.

She says the flight immediately descended to about 10 to 12-thousand feet and proceeded on to Anchorage were it landed without incident.

Tobin says one passenger reported some ear pain, and on the advice of medics did seek medical attention.

Juneau resident Bunti Reed was a passenger on the plane. We talked to her shortly after the jetliner landed in Anchorage.

She says the plane was at about 32-thousand feet and beverage service had just started, when they felt the plane start to descend.

Reed says they could tell they were making a rapid descent.

When the plane got to about 12-thousand feet the pilot announced that that the plane had been losing cabin pressure but it had been stabilized.

Reed says it was a tense few minutes when the plane was descending.

She says after the plane leveled off the pilot announced that they'd be flying the rest of the way to Anchorage at about 12-thousand feet.

Reed says the flight crew and pilots were very professional and the passengers seemed to take the incident in stride.

Although, Reed says, the passengers were all a bit stunned. She says it was a pretty quiet plane for awhile
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:14 am

This is for ANCFLYER.
There is supposed to be a link within this link that provides a link to
the NTSB's reports on airline pressurization problems. I didn't see it, but
you can try KOMOTV.com later today.

http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=42034

Granted, the person interviewed was an Alaska Airlines pilot for a long time,
so some people may say that he is biased in favor of AS, but basically
I agree with what he is saying.

From what I can tell, all the recent events have different causes.
Not great for AS' reputation, but not anything for an informed traveller
to be worried about.

On a different note, I am working to get a 737-200 set up for ANCFlyer's
LAS trip with some nice intermediate stops in YEG and YYC enroute to LAS.
 devil 
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 29):
Not great for AS' reputation, but not anything for an informed traveller to be worried about.

As I suspected . . . thanks for that info, HWS.

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 29):
On a different note, I am working to get a 737-200 set up for ANCFlyer's LAS trip with some nice intermediate stops in YEG and YYC enroute to LAS.

 rotfl 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
CO767FA
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Qxq400 (Reply 1):
I believe that there is some union sabatoge going on here.

Why is it that you automatically assume this to be the case? It could just be coincidence, right? Odds may point to other factors, but we won't know until the FAA makes its findings public.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 29):
On a different note, I am working to get a 737-200 set up for ANCFlyer's
LAS trip with some nice intermediate stops in YEG and YYC enroute to LAS.

Is this the trip for the speculated LAS meet that I've heard little about, perchance?  scratchchin 
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 32):
Is this the trip for the speculated LAS meet that I've heard little about, perchance?

Why, yes it is . . . you're invited of course . . .

See this thread . . . it shall be a weekend of debauchery for certain!
LAS Meet Thread 3/24/25/26... Part IV (by AAFLT1871 Feb 5 2006 in Non Aviation)

Note to self: Self, posting a link with flight info therein probably wasn't a good idea . . .  laughing 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
lincoln
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 2):
I think there's a good chance it's just increased scrutiny from the media. These types of problems do happen, but in the past they wouldn't get picked up. Now that there's the human story of Menzies taking over ramp operations in SEA, the media wants to pick up on everything. Not sure if the frequency of these incidents is normal or not, but I guarantee you they had at least some problems like this before the media attention.



Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 10):

While not similarly sized fleets, a several weeks ago, someone posted a "If you think AS is so unsafe, see how your favorite airline does" post. Comparing Alaska and Continental's information from the NTSB database over the same period of time (somewhere between 12 and 24 months) and it was something like:

1 in 57,000 flights on Alaska would have an NTSB-reportable incident
1 in 530,000 flights on Continental would have an NTSB-reportable incident.

...take that info for what it is, and know that may not be statistically valid.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
gipper913
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 31):
Why is it that you automatically assume this to be the case?

I must admit thinking the same thing re: union sabatoge. Why? AS and their unions are very much at odds recently, and it does seem like a whole lot more likely than mere coincidence. Plus, would you expect any more out of union thugs?  Wink

That said, let's wait for final reports.

As to the media hysteria, ABCnews via their Seattle affiliate had a good analysis:

'They Happen Literally Every Day To Every Major Airline'

February 23, 2006

By KOMO Staff & News Services

SEATTLE - Alaska Airlines planes have made emergency landings or had cabin pressure problems three times in just the last two months. But just how big are these problems?

Last Friday, a Chicago-bound Alaska jet returned to Sea-Tac because of a suspected fuel leak. On Valentine's Day, another Alaska flight bound for Denver came back after oxygen masks suddenly dropped.

Passengers may have been surprised, but ABC News aviation expert John Nance just smiles: "This type of thing--they happen literally everyday to every major airline."

Back in December, an Alaska MD-80 made an emergency landing after a hole in the fuselage caused the jet to lose cabin pressure. A ramp worker hit the plane with a baggage cart and failed to report it.

Of the three incidents, Nance says fuselage incident is the only major emergency. Nance says people in the industry understand pressure problems and emergency landings are not rare -- passengers just don't hear about them.

Part of the problem, Nance explains, is how people talk about the incidents.

"We scare ourselves to death sometimes calling everything an emergency. We label the terminal a 'terminal'; we call landing a 'final approach.' But what we have really is a system that's safe because we refuse to let one iota get by without getting upset," Nance says.

An Alaska spokesperson tells KOMO 4 News that's exactly what the airline is doing.

"Minor problem or not, we take every incident very seriously. We address them all with proactive steps," says Amanda Tobin.

Travelers we talked to are understanding: "Things can happen and sometimes they happen in a serious of events but we have lots of confidence," says Eric Anderson as his family prepares to board an Alaska flight.

Alaska says their investigation into the three recent pressurization problems revealed three different root causes; even so, the company says they're conducting a fleet-wide inspection of all their pressurization systems in the next 10 days.

http://www.komotv.com/news/printstory.asp?id=42034
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HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Returns To LAX From ONT, Pressurization

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 33):
Note to self: Self, posting a link with flight info therein probably wasn't a good idea . . .

I have heard that YEG has an all night back bacon diner that is
out of this world!
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!

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