swissgabe
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Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:47 am

As per the Swiss Travel Trade Magazine "Travel Inside" (todays newsletter), Swiss will lease an Airbus A300-600 from Hapag Lloyd and will use it on the sectors from ZRH to SSG, YAO, DLA and NBO/DAR. This will make available the needed additional aircraft for the 2nd JFK flight operated by Swiss which will start from 01 May 2006. Flights to NBO/DAR will also increase in JUN to 4 iso 3 rotation a week.
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B742
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:50 am

Intresting, will the AB6 be in full Swiss colours?

Will Swiss change the config of the Hapagfly AB6 into their usual config?

When I first looked at the title I though it said A340-600, I nearly had an heart attack  Wink

I wish LX would get some more A340's from somewhere, perhaps LH  Smile

Are LX looking at the A340E and A350 for possible future replacements, baring in mind the A340 fleet is still pretty young  Smile

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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:54 am

This has been discussed on a couple of other threads. Check the one on news for LX Summer 2006.
 
ChrisZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:03 am

I think it's sad to replace those african routes with a hapag-fly aircraft. passengers from cameroon, kenya,... they love nothing more than seeing a SWISS aircraft at night on the ramp, which they will board for their flight to europe. they know they get european quality and safety (not saying african carriers are unsafe) people down there mostly don't even know swissair is not swiss anymore.... check-in counters with swissair logos, travel agencies and everything mostly the same  Smile.
i really hope the A300 gets swiss livery, because this still means something in those countries and it's important not to screw up what you have (VERY GOOD paying passengers). a similar thing already happened in abu dhabi, after swiss pulling out of the arabian gateway, not many locals want swiss back, they switched to other airlines and now spend their money on those carriers

wouldn't it be possible to operate the A300 on the JFK route? (range wise)

regards,
chris
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petertenthije
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:11 am

I thought Hapag Lloyd had not A300s? Perhaps you mean A310, HL does have two or three of them left.
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:15 am

This will be interesting to watch - the big question of course is whether Swiss will re-congifure the aircraft to its cabin standards.......flying the A300 in a charter configuration will be a costly mistake, passengers will be unhappy. Even after all that has transpired, Swiss still has a rather good reputation for longhaul service, especially to Africa.....and Europe-Africa routes are generally among the highest yeilding services in all classes, so it would be foolish for Swiss to use a charter-congifured aircraft on these routes.

I am not optimistic.....ventures like these generally go wrong, that is, when established carriers lease in "unusual equipment" with different seating and product standards. Sabena had problems on routes operated by Citybird, LH has had headaches on flights operated by Condor, and most recently, BMI used the Icelandair 757 on the IAD-MAN route.......nothing wrong with the 757, but the product offered onboard was very different from the one available on the BMI A332s - the result, BMI no longer flies IAD-MAN. Lets hope that Swiss has learned from these mistakes and does better.
 
legacy135
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting ChrisZRH (Reply 3):
wouldn't it be possible to operate the A300 on the JFK route? (range wise)

We looked at it years ago in Balair, when it came to replace the DC-10. JFK basically looked possible, but only with restrictions and a good potential for diversions, as we had it in the beginning with the old version of the A310, our HB-IPK which led numerous JFK flights into BOS or BGR. Sure, the BB version was supposed to carry some 300 passengers, on the other hand there wasn't much cargo on those flights. LX probably has a strong demand for cargo as well, limitng those flights even more.

On the other hand, I am quite sure, this plane is going to wear LX colors and will recieve an interior, offering a fair comfort. An average passenger probably can't see a differnece between a A300-600 and an A330. If LX is not going to outfit this plane to their standart, I won't understand anymore....

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Crosswind
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 4):
I thought Hapag Lloyd had not A300s? Perhaps you mean A310, HL does have two or three of them left.


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Hapag Lloyd operate this Lufthansa A300 on lease, which presumably will be sub-leased to Swiss.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
This will be interesting to watch - the big question of course is whether Swiss will re-congifure the aircraft to its cabin standards.......flying the A300 in a charter configuration will be a costly mistake

As far as I know the aircraft isn't in charter configuration, but is in Lufthansa's short-haul scheduled layout.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
BMI used the Icelandair 757 on the IAD-MAN route.......nothing wrong with the 757, but the product offered onboard was very different from the one available on the BMI A332s - the result, BMI no longer flies IAD-MAN.

The use of the 757 was not the reason for bmi ending MAN-IAD. The route was always their weakest Trans-Atlantic service, and when bmi were given approval for LHR-BOM then it was naturally this route that was for the chop. The 757 was used for the summer to allow bmi to honour their forward bookings, there was never any intention to continue the agreement into the winter... Without the Icelandair 757 the route would have ended much earlier than it actually did, the onboard product is not the issue - look at Contiental flying the 757 and 767-400 side-by-side on each of their 2 daily MAN-EWR routes. If product were so important the 757 would be empty, which is not the case!

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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:48 am

Considering that it is a plane for Africans routes, and Swiss still seems to market it's self as Swissair in Africa (just look at the checkin counters, ground equiptment, uniforms...) I think they should pain the planes in the Old brown/black cheatline SWissair scheme (just like a long A310)  Smile


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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
When I first looked at the title I though it said A340-600, I nearly had an heart attack

Hey, thats what I read too. For that reason, the A300-600 should be designated as the A300B4-600.

How long is the lease for? Why aren't they leasing an additional A332, is it too big?

[Edited 2006-02-23 22:03:03]
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ka
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
Why aren't they leasing an additional A332, is it too big?

Try finding one! There are not really many choices out there. And then find one with a price tag LX can afford, as LH is not willing to pay for extra planes at LX, yet.

After this summer alot can change, though.

KA.
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 8):
I think they should pain the planes in the Old brown/black cheatline SWissair scheme (just like a long A310)

That would be amazing !!  cheeky 
When will Swiss/Lufthansa paint one of their plane in Swissair colors as a retro livery ?  cheerful  Ok I guess they have no money for it but... Let's dream anyway !
Swissair forever !
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 8):
(just look at the checkin counters, ground equiptment, uniforms...)

I don't know what you are talking about. I lived in Africa for four years and flew home (to ZRH) numerous times on Swiss. Their identity in Africa was exactly the same as it was elsewhere - Swiss.

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 11):
When will Swiss/Lufthansa paint one of their plane in Swissair colors as a retro livery ?

Just as soon as they buy the rights to do so from the receivers of the defunct Swissair. Swiss is a "new" airline with no ownership of the old Swissair brand. The minute they painted a plane in Swissair colours they'd be in court and liable for all the debts SR left behind!
 
SWISSER
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:45 am

So who will fly them?
Hapag fly crew?
Nobody at SWISS is Type rated for an AB6...
What time is top of descent?
 
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viasa
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 13):
So who will fly them?
Hapag fly crew?

It would be Lufthansa crew.
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 13):
So who will fly them?
Hapag fly crew?
Nobody at SWISS is Type rated for an AB6...

On the original thread where this first came up...
Any News @ Swiss In Summer 2006? (by Mozart Feb 6 2006 in Civil Aviation)

...it said that the plane would be wet-leased. So it won't be operated by LX crews.
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 7):
As far as I know the aircraft isn't in charter configuration, but is in Lufthansa's short-haul scheduled layout.

If so, then that would be quite an increase in capacity: CY280 as opposed to CY230 on the current LX A332. In point of fact, it would have the highest capacity of any plane in the LX fleet! (The A343 seats 238 in three classes.) So Swiss's "biggest" route is ZRH-DAR? Who'd have thought it?!
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
How long is the lease for? Why aren't they leasing an additional A332, is it too big?

They tried to get at least one of the former Blue Wings A330s, that were stored for quite some time at CGN. But they are all currently made ready for a new life at TP at ZRH (sic).

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rootsair
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:11 am

Why do they lease A300's ....I mean for an airline like Swiss that says they have a modern fleet with great fuel efficiency and all they can lease are A300's...something must be wrong there!
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 17):
They tried to get at least one of the former Blue Wings A330s, that were stored for quite some time at CGN. But they are all currently made ready for a new life at TP at ZRH (sic).

TAP seem to be buying all three but the rumour persists that LX will still end up operating one - and soon...

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 18):
Why do they lease A300's ....I mean for an airline like Swiss that says they have a modern fleet with great fuel efficiency and all they can lease are A300's...something must be wrong there!

It may currently be flying with Hapag Lloyd but it's essentially a Lufthansa plane. Hence the plane is being transferred (with appropriate LH crew) from one branch of the Lufthansa empire to another. It makes perfect economical sense.
 
lsgg
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:18 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 12):
Swiss is a "new" airline with no ownership of the old Swissair brand.

Oh yeah I forgot that one... So a retro Crossair livery ? Big grin

Ok I know some LX aircrafts haven't been repainted in the new LX livery...
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 20):
Ok I know some LX aircrafts haven't been repainted in the new LX livery...

As recently as five days ago I saw two ERJ-145s still in full Crossair colours. Of course, they'll be leaving the fleet next month.
 
Knightsofmalta
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 8):
Considering that it is a plane for Africans routes, and Swiss still seems to market it's self as Swissair in Africa (just look at the checkin counters, ground equiptment, uniforms...) I think they should pain the planes in the Old brown/black cheatline SWissair scheme (just like a long A310)

I don't know if they'd go as far as that but I once saw the original designs Tyler Brulé had presented SWISS as proposals for their livery when they first started. Originally he'd intended for the engines of the aircraft to be painted a light brown. Pitty they did'nt actually do that, it looked different and would have stuck out among the Eurowhite liveries so popular these days.
 
Knightsofmalta
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 16):
If so, then that would be quite an increase in capacity: CY280 as opposed to CY230 on the current LX A332. In point of fact, it would have the highest capacity of any plane in the LX fleet! (The A343 seats 238 in three classes.) So Swiss's "biggest" route is ZRH-DAR? Who'd have thought it?!

Currently the aircraft is flying with a seating capacity of 300 so I suppose it's in a charter configuration. SWISS will be operating the aircraft with 36 Business Class seats. However, in total it's seating capacity will be less than that available on the A. 330. I have know idea really but does anybody know how long it takes to refurbish an A. 300? Maybe that's why it won't be available until May.
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:16 pm

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 23):
Currently the aircraft is flying with a seating capacity of 300 so I suppose it's in a charter configuration. SWISS will be operating the aircraft with 36 Business Class seats. However, in total it's seating capacity will be less than that available on the A. 330.

Thinking more about it, that makes sense. The A332 currently used on the ZRH-NBO-DAR route (which I've flown almost 30 times on SR and LX) has an MTOW of 230000Kg and is configured C48Y182. LH's A300-600s have an MTOW of 150000Kg. I assume it couldn't carry C48Y182 all that way. I wonder how many it will seat? There's a chance that those lucky passengers could have a generous amount of space.

The ZRH-NBO-DAR route is doing well so a smaller plane could be a problem. Going from three to four flights a week should help.
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:35 pm

Besides a A300-600R is a nice aircraft to fly on if confirgured with comfort in mind - like the QR ones, not like the AA ones. The main difference the Swiss passengers could notice in temrs of comfort is the lack of individual IFE on this plane, as LX A330s have PTVs.
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:40 pm

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 25):
The main difference the Swiss passengers could notice in temrs of comfort is the lack of individual IFE on this plane, as LX A330s have PTVs.

Good point. When the route was flown by LX MD11s the C Class passengers were each given a "laptop" DVD player and a wallet of DVDs. That was great. Perhaps they'll do the same on the A300.
 
ChrisZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:18 pm

yeah those DVD players were cool. also the BBJ operated to newark only has those DVD players, no PTV's
and PM, i have flown some routes to africa and know people working there for SWISS, you wount believe all the stories...

chris
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
I am not optimistic.....ventures like these generally go wrong, that is, when established carriers lease in "unusual equipment" with different seating and product standards.

Agree on that !

Additional: NO WAY this plane is going to be painted in LX colours, I would take any bet .....

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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting Swissgabe (Thread starter):
This will make available the needed additional aircraft for the 2nd JFK flight operated by Swiss which will start from 01 May 2006.

Is this a second JFK flight from GVA? Because there are already two non-stops from ZRH, no? And the one to EWR as well. It would make sense to me to start another GVA-JFK since the flight is ALWAYS full.

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Knightsofmalta
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 29):
Is this a second JFK flight from GVA? Because there are already two non-stops from ZRH, no?

So far the second JFK flight has been operated as a code-share by American Airlines. Now that LX is joining the Star Alliance, the agreement with AA was cancelled.
 
ChrisZRH
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:14 am

and will AA continue to operate their 1 o'clock fligth?

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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 30):
So far the second JFK flight has been operated as a code-share by American Airlines. Now that LX is joining the Star Alliance, the agreement with AA was cancelled.

Its a third flight from ZRH actually. They will keep the once per day service from GVA. All these flights will be operated as codeshare with UA.

http://www.swiss.com/web/IE6/sw-nw-p...6.htm/?newsid=86116&startflag=true
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:26 pm

AA will still be running a daily 763 into ZRH, but the schedule is changed.
LX's new frequency will operate with the same schedule as AA used to (out of ZRH at 1.10pm, into ZRH at 10.45am)
while AA changes their schedule to

AA64 JFK 5:20PM ZRH 7:05am + 1
AA65 ZRH 10:05am JFK 12:50pm

I guess this is a schedule more for people going to Zurich, since connections are pretty much gone, without LX.
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:27 pm

I think many people forget that the AB6 is actually MORE efficient on some routes than the A332. She has very short legs, and is probably a bit more expensive to maintain, but as a short-medium haul high density people mover, the AB6 really is extremely capable, more so than the 767-300ER on the shorter missions. I dont have time now, but im sure someone will find me the numbers and post them. Its a smart move I think.
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Knightsofmalta
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:46 am

The latest news is that the aircraft will not be repainted in the LX livery but will retain it's current Hapag Lloyd livery. The only thing which will be changed is that the advert for the Hapag Lloyd homepage will be removed from the aircraft.

The aircraft has been leased until November by which time LX is confident to have found a more suitable aircraft, either an A. 340 or an A. 330.
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 35):
The only thing which will be changed is that the advert for the Hapag Lloyd homepage will be removed from the aircraft.

So what kind of interior will it have?
 
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RE: Swiss To Lease Airbus A300-600!

Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:38 am

The same it has now, which is also why the plane won't be painted in the LX livery. To be honest, I don't know exactly what the interior of the plane is like now but seeing as it's currently flying in a charter configuration, the cabin is not very likely to be that hot! All I've heard is that it has 300 seats, 36 of which are Business Class. In economy, only 210 seats will be sold, although I'm sure if this is due to any payload restrictions.