cmb320
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 1:24 pm

NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:22 am

Effective May 2, according to El Paso Times, flights to MSP will end.

Lasted quite a bit longer than I thought they would.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:05 am

 Yeah sure Big suprise, everyone loves spending close to 4 hours in an RJ...not to mention that that was one spendy leg. Ever priced a flight on it?
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:31 am

Too bad, but no doubt the O&D wasn't there to make the route profitable ... as for connections, why would anyone from ELP connect via MSP when DEN, SLC, DFW, ORD, etc. provide shorter routes to almost anywhere?
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 2):
Too bad, but no doubt the O&D wasn't there to make the route profitable ... as for connections, why would anyone from ELP connect via MSP when DEN, SLC, DFW, ORD, etc. provide shorter routes to almost anywhere?

I think they were banking on the O&D from Minneapolis, as a lot of Minnesota-based companies had moved manufacturing ops to Ciudad Juarez, Mexico (right across the border). I also know many Hispanic families that had relatives that had moved to the MSP area...however, I don't think that the market (for personal travel, at least) would bear the costs of travel via NW (the fares were pretty high).
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting CMB320 (Thread starter):
Effective May 2, according to El Paso Times, flights to MSP will end.

The Northwest Airlines system seems to be shrinking more and more by the day!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 4):

The Northwest Airlines system seems to be shrinking more and more by the day!

Nah, they're still adding A319's to cities that should only be served by props like TVC. People call WN the short haul king, I guarantee NW has far more sub-300nm mainline routes to the middle of nowhere.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:14 am

Interesting, because in the NW newsletter, about the routes they wanted to fly the new Regional jets on, MSP and DTW to ELP were both on the map.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):
Interesting, because in the NW newsletter, about the routes they wanted to fly the new Regional jets on, MSP and DTW to ELP were both on the map.

Holy cow, I couldn't imagine DTW-ELP on a CRJ. I would imagine MSP-ELP already has payload restrictions. Another route ended by NW and a tiny tiny more chance at every city they cut of WN coming (not that WN would serve MSP-ELP).
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:47 am

Yeah, I always figured with as many companies in MSP that have ops over in Juarez that a 319 could be justified. The very thought of 4 hours on a CRJ is a nightmare. Too bad, ELP is a great city and I am happy I got to live there for a year. I hope I can return some day. Still, there are plenty of connections on mainline (AA to ORD, DFW, CO to IAH, US/HP to PHX and LAS, UA and F9 to DEN and WN to a lot of points west).

BTW...I've always thought WN should do an ELP-MDW flight...sure would make connecting from the East coast/Midwest easier.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5447
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting LV (Reply 8):
BTW...I've always thought WN should do an ELP-MDW flight.

I guess the possibilities of this are dependent on whether or not WN and ELP have mended fences with respect to the public dispute over the airport's expensive expansion/renovation project a few years back.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
guess the possibilities of this are dependent on whether or not WN and ELP have mended fences with respect to the public dispute over the airport's expensive expansion/renovation project a few years back.

Wow, another airport that Southwest gets into disagreements with... one more on the list:

SEA, SAN, ELP, DFW...

Is it me or can't Southwest play well with others?
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:00 pm

Does NW still have MEM-TUS on a CRJ?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting CMB320 (Thread starter):
Holy cow, I couldn't imagine DTW-ELP on a CRJ

Funny, people still fly a CRJ/ERJ to SAT from SFO and LAX everyday!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
Is it me or can't Southwest play well with others?

Is it me or is Tornado still upset about WN going to PHL instead of ABE?  Wink.
There are a lot of airlines that don't like certain airports. WN seems to be happy with LAS.  Silly
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):

Is it me or is Tornado still upset about WN going to PHL instead of ABE? Wink.

You of all people, who can IM me on AIM any time, know that I lived 290 miles away from Allentown airport at the time, considered Allentown a giant ghetto I'd wouldn't be caught dead in, and had NO intentions of living here when Southwest chose Philly over Allentown. Additionally, I'm trying my damnedest to get out of this God-forsaken Valley as we speak because Allentown, Philly, and the rest of this area all suck, so NO I'm not upset about it. I frankly don't want them here, because they'd take all the jetbridged gates and make the RJ's of GOOD airlines use the steps... AND their current route network out of PHL if it were transposed to here would be of NO use to me anyways for my most usual trips. If I wanted to reap the benefits of the "Southwest Effect" all I gotta do is pay the PTC my $2 toll and take a 70 mile drive.

I wonder though, when I move out of here back to Pittsburgh in a month God-willing, what's gonna be the newest thing you clowns use to bash me?
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
You of all people

Hahahahaha.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
I wonder though, when I move out of here back to Pittsburgh in a month God-willing, what's gonna be the newest thing you clowns use to bash me?

Probably when you start complaining that WN is diluting US yields in PIT and forcing them to cut flights.  Wink
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2534
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
I wonder though, when I move out of here back to Pittsburgh in a month God-willing, what's gonna be the newest thing you clowns use to bash me?

He'll say you moved there because they have WN.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 12):
Funny, people still fly a CRJ/ERJ to SAT from SFO and LAX everyday!

Erj and Crj are totally different animals.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):

Probably when you start complaining that WN is diluting US yields in PIT and forcing them to cut flights. Wink

US was cutting flights LONG before WN came to town. They only came to town because US DID cut flights. You're wrong again. And as far as US goes, I'll probably still fly CO out of PIT, even if it means the B1900 to CLE. If I cared about US, I'd still be flying them now, because they're the #1 carrier here too.
 
DFW13L
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:22 pm

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 11):
Does NW still have MEM-TUS on a CRJ?

I don't show any in SABRE. Looks like the route is gone.
See, I knew American Eagle was first class all along!
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 18):
I don't show any in SABRE. Looks like the route is gone.

So is MSP, all NW service is gone from TUS now, along with ONT.
 
AirWest
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:13 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:58 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 19):

So is MSP, all NW service is gone from TUS now, along with ONT.

Are they cutting MSP-TUS? I thought is still NW883, MSP-TUS, at least that is what I found for now.
"And now I wish I was somewhere other than here"- JB
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):
Interesting, because in the NW newsletter, about the routes they wanted to fly the new Regional jets on, MSP and DTW to ELP were both on the map.

I saw the same NW newsletter and the only thing I could think of is, "what are they smoking in Eagan?" Despite the influx of Hispanics to the Upper Midwest and formerly upper-Midwest businesses to that region, the market simply isn't there. I even thought to myself that NW would've had a better shot running ELP-MEM than ELP-MSP... as sick as that sounds.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:39 pm

Quoting LV (Reply 8):
BTW...I've always thought WN should do an ELP-MDW flight...sure would make connecting from the East coast/Midwest easier.

AA does ELP-ORD...and I hear it's a quite popular route.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
propatriamori
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:42 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:33 pm

I don't know how true this is or not,

but the EP times article did mention that NW was not pulling out of ELP because the route was unprofitable. It was written up as more of a "NW can make more money with the equipment on other routes and needs to do so due to the current company financial situation". There were words from a NW spokesperson to that effect.

Personally, the option came up for me to fly this route several times, connecting to the NRT flight, but the return flights always had a long layover in MSP. There are many Japanese companies operating in Juarez and perhaps NW failed to fully capitalize on that traffic, with the layover in MSP choosing AA through DFW instead was a no-brainer.

AA does ELP-ORD 3x daily now, and does quite well. I think after WN, AA has to be the number two airline in ELP.

Im surprised UA or F9 haven't pulled out of the Denver flights yet...
 
alphascan
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting Propatriamori (Reply 23):
Im surprised UA or F9 haven't pulled out of the Denver flights yet...

F9 is usually pretty flexible where it sends its equipment..or in this case, Horizon's RJs and would normally redeploy the equipment if it could bring in more revenue on another route. However, in the case of ELP, F9 has a res call center in nearby Las Cruces, NM. That may play a role in the decision to stay IF as you suggest, the route is not performing up to system standards.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
cmb320
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 1:24 pm

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:48 am

Why would F9 pull out of ELP? Are the loads no good? F9 has been flying to ELP since nearly the start of their operations have they not?
 
STJ
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:19 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:31 am

I am surprised to since I load these flights 3 or 4 times a weekend and they are usually always full or as full as we can get them as they usually are weight restricted. As far as profitability I am surprised also since we always have a lot of military on the flight and the government tickets are always profitable. I always thought NW would just change one of the CRJ daily flights to a DC-9 or 319 eventually.
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 16):
Erj and Crj are totally different animals

Really, last anyone checked they are both cramped and not appealing to the majority of flyers used to a standard passenger aircraft such as a A320 or 737.
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 7):
Holy cow, I couldn't imagine DTW-ELP on a CRJ. I would imagine MSP-ELP already has payload restrictions. Another route ended by NW and a tiny tiny more chance at every city they cut of WN coming (not that WN would serve MSP-ELP).

I remember the days n the 80's when AA ran a DC-10 into ELP from DFW.
One Nation Under God
 
joeman
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 2):
as for connections, why would anyone from ELP connect via MSP when DEN, SLC, DFW, ORD, etc. provide shorter routes to almost anywhere?

True, but if I want to be loyal to the hometown "hub" carrier in CLE in travelling to SEA, I go via IAH down on the Gulf, or EWR over there by the Atlantic.

My point is, the legacies devote way too much concentration in running nearly all domestic US service through their superhubs, even for larger markets involving those medium/large O&D cities except for the chosen few.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Airwest (Reply 20):
Are they cutting MSP-TUS? I thought is still NW883, MSP-TUS, at least that is what I found for now.

Blah, I could of swore they were cutting that, I guess not. I know they cut MSP-RNO and ONT though.
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 11):
Does NW still have MEM-TUS on a CRJ?

Did NW ever fly this route? NW used to have a MSP-TUS flight on a CRJ, I dont recall a MEM (or DTW) flight recently.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 30):

Blah, I could of swore they were cutting that, I guess not. I know they cut MSP-RNO and ONT though.

NW is still serving TUS once daily via MSP using A319/320s. They used to have twice daily service, however, maybe thats the service cut you're thinking of.

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
Probably when you start complaining that WN is diluting US yields in PIT and forcing them to cut flights.

Not true at all. As much as US continues to disappoint me in PIT it is not cutting flights because of WN. When will WN be adding flights in PIT anyway if they are doing so hot?
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 7):

Holy cow, I couldn't imagine DTW-ELP on a CRJ. I would imagine MSP-ELP already has payload restrictions. Another route ended by NW and a tiny tiny more chance at every city they cut of WN coming (not that WN would serve MSP-ELP).

Uh, i would imagine it would be more like an EMB-170/190  Wink
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 31):
Did NW ever fly this route? NW used to have a MSP-TUS flight on a CRJ, I dont recall a MEM (or DTW) flight recently.

Yes I believe it was Saturday only MEM-TUS on a CRJ.
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
Nah, they're still adding A319's to cities that should only be served by props like TVC.

Why should TVC only be served by props?
 
leo777
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:09 pm

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:35 pm

There are only 2 flights from ORD-ELP, there used to be 3 flights from ORD-ELP that was pre 9-11. I just looked at the schedules on aa.com.
You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 35):
Why should TVC only be served by props?

Did anyone say avros and CRJ's weren't allowed?
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 37):

Did anyone say avros and CRJ's weren't allowed?

Tornado 82 said:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
Nah, they're still adding A319's to cities that should only be served by props like TVC.

Seeing how many of the DC-9's are full, an upgrade to an A319 may be a downgrade by one seat if it replaces a DC-9-50.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 38):

Seeing how many of the DC-9's are full, an upgrade to an A319 may be a downgrade by one seat if it replaces a DC-9-50.

And welcome to the reason NW needs Q-400s. Nothing beats the waste of $2/gallon Jet-A on a route where ya never even set your altimeter to 29.92. That said, I'm still having a hard time believing these mythical load factors in a city of that size.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2534
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: NW To End ELP Flts

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:59 pm

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 35):

Why should TVC only be served by props?

For the same reasons some other cities are????

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 37):
Did anyone say avros and CRJ's weren't allowed?

Of course theyre allowed.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 38):
Seeing how many of the DC-9's are full, an upgrade to an A319 may be a downgrade by one seat if it replaces a DC-9-50.

How does one know this?

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 39):
And welcome to the reason NW needs Q-400s. Nothing beats the waste of $2/gallon Jet-A on a route where ya never even set your altimeter to 29.92. That said, I'm still having a hard time believing these mythical load factors in a city of that size.

Hey, hey, hey!!! How dare you diss NWs "Get Out of Bankrupcy" plan that includes:

1. Over protection of territory
2. Rediculous amounts of capacity in some markets
3. ( last but not least) Undercapacity in "unprotected" markets.

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