Simpilicity
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Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:13 pm

recently had the misfortune of transitting LAX.

Flew QF BNE/LAX & ARRIVED early before 0700 & had to sit on aircraft as U.S. customs/immigration not open !!! (hello).

Had to leave Tom Bradley Int Term to go to AA flight from Term 4, so had to enter LA & go thru security at Term 4.

Later on AA flight reading AA magazine, maps of airports in back, it says there's a tunnell from TBIT to Term 4 to aviod having to go thru serurity again, so why couldn't we use it???

On return flights, recd. DEN/LAX & LAX/BNE boarding passes at DEN.

Again, but in reverse, arrived term 4 to them have to go to TBIT, where TSA security told me could not go thru to gate with AA boarding pass stating QF175 on it, but had to get another piece of QF paper rather than AA paper, so spent hour in queue for this, only to then go to bus terminal gate 116 to go on tour of LAX for 30 minutes to a remote stand. As a result of all this nonscience took off 70 minutes late. QF flight attendants said this happened all the time because of TSA security nonscience. They even made a joke of not congregating in groups around the toilets, because they had to say it, but had no intention of even enforcing it.

Moral of the story, avoid LAX like the plague, fly via SFO or HNL or avoid the U.S. altogether & go to Canada instead, the yanks don't really want our money!!!
 
LAXintl
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:35 pm

Considering you have a history of bashing on this board prior, I'll take your comments somewhat lightly.

As far as customs, the Federal Inspection Services have core hours of 0700-2300 at TBIT. Airlines schedule within those guidelines or must pay for additional staffing cost if they wish to come and go outside of this.
Its quite regular that early arrivals wait for the official opening hours. If you wish to place blame on any party, I'd suggest you place it with Qantas.

As far as the tunnel between T-4 and TBIT yes it indeed does exist, however is used to channel international customs passengers from T-4 during times its facility is closed to that of TBITs. Its not meant as a direct always open connector between the terminals but instead a sterile customs corridor.

Lastly, I'd ask for you to please identify an airport where one can arrive off an international flight and not have to reclear security prior to boarding a domestic flight?
I travel over 25 weeks a year and whether its Japan, Europe, South America must always clear thru local security at some point of my journey.
A matter of fact to my knowledge the rescreening of transit passengers is both encouraged as best practices and even governed by bilateral security agreements between multiple nations. The idea being is that you cant breach security at one airport (possibly one with weak security) and be able to travel freely without encountering rescreening downline. Its quite a prudent approach in my view.
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remcor
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:42 pm

Well, all that may be true, but LAX does still suck. I really wish that LAX was able to go through with its master plan! Knowing how quickly things move in California, it'll now probably be another decade before we see a major terminal renovation.

[Edited 2006-02-24 04:43:18]
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
As far as customs, the Federal Inspection Services have core hours of 0700-2300 at TBIT.

Get real is LAX a 24 hour airport or not? Seems like you want to be a 24 hour airport, when it suits you.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
As far as the tunnel between T-4 and TBIT yes it indeed does exist, however is used to channel international customs passengers from T-4 during times its facility is closed to that of TBITs. Its not meant as a direct always open connector between the terminals but instead a sterile customs corridor.

Perhaps this tunnel should be opened up to arriving INT pax to get to T4 especially as it already exists. It would certainly shorten queues at your so called security, which brings me to the point, why is it called security at all? It would be incredibly easy to breach, not that any terrorist would use a commercvail flight/airport anyway. Let's face it, a terrorist would probably fly in on a learjet & land at any of hundreds of strips in California/nevada desert & be undetected if he was smart.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
Lastly, I'd ask for you to please identify an airport where one can arrive off an international flight and not have to reclear security prior to boarding a domestic flight?

surely you're not suggesting than entering the good old u.s. of a. at customs/immigration is not a secure point? Realy this nonscience has gone on too long.

Maybe we should just tell people thinking of going to the u.s. not too bother, the whole place is a mess, huge deficit, it'll be owned by China soon anyway. Besides, they're shooting lawyers there now. Dodgy Cheney shot lawyer recently & if VP thinks he can & gets away with it, then soon everyone will be taking pot shots at lawyers. (what did the guy owe Cheney or didn't he do what he was told?)
 
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:06 pm

I have to agree LAX is not the most pleasant place to transit. My experience when arriving into Terminal 4 on QF from MEL last December is waiting on the aircraft for 30 minutes because another QF flight arrived before us and CBP said the Immigration area was too full. Terminal 2 is not the good either. I came in on CA and felt the arrival terminal to be a bit worn.

LAX is a very busy International airport and I hope the city will move forward with their master plan to make it a more efficient airport for International arrivals.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 3):
Get real is LAX a 24 hour airport or not? Seems like you want to be a 24 hour airport, when it suits you.

Sure if airlines wish to fund the service. There is very little if any activity or demand between midnight and 7am. Besides JFK and possibly MIA I am not aware of any airport that has 24hour FIS coverage in the US.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 3):
Perhaps this tunnel should be opened up to arriving INT pax to get to T4 especially as it already exists

It would then loose its sterile status. What you are suggesting is to have passengers that have cleared customs and headed to AA domestic flights mix with inbound international arrival passengers walking over to TBIT for clearance.


At the end of the day, its standard worldwide practice to rescreen passengers arriving off international flights prior to boarding domestic or even other international services.

Even airport such as Singapore which keep winning awards from convenience rescreen ALL passengers at each gate for their connecting flight. Others like Heathrow, Narita, rescreen passengers upon entry to the transit area.

It is indeed a free country, you are free to vote via your dollars to choose another airport like SFO or HNL or even another country if you dont feel the US does not deserves your presence.
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hawaiian717
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 3):
Get real is LAX a 24 hour airport or not? Seems like you want to be a 24 hour airport, when it suits you.

Just because there isn't demand to keep FIS staffed 24 hours doesn't mean the airport can't serve flights 24 hours a day. There are plenty of domestic flights as well as international departures outside the 0700-2300 window that TBIT FIS is open.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 3):
Perhaps this tunnel should be opened up to arriving INT pax to get to T4 especially as it already exists.

If you had arriving INT pax using this tunnel to transit to T4, you'd then be mixing uncleared arrivals from T-4 heading to TBIT with cleared arrivals from TBIT heading to T4. Not going to happen.
 
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
At the end of the day, its standard worldwide practice to rescreen passengers arriving off international flights prior to boarding domestic or even other international services.

In New Zealand if you've arrived on an International flight and your connecting to a Turbo-prop flight on NZ or QO then you don't go throu Domestic Security, just re-check-in your luggage and head direct to the gate and board the aircraft. If by your comment your meaning flights that can be considered a threat due to the aircraft, speed it travels etc then yes you have to

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Even airport such as Singapore which keep winning awards from convenience rescreen ALL passengers at each gate for their connecting flight

With all the things that SIN offer, like spa baths, swimming pools, gyms then I'm not surprised they keep winning awards because all the treats totally make up for the hassel of going throu secuirty.

I'm surprised Simpilicity flew QF considering he doesnt like QF or JQ
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max999
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:57 pm

This is not the first time these types of complaints have been aired on here. People being arbitrarily denied visas after doing the paperwork and going to the interviews, innocent visitors being unnecessarily hassled by immigration when they arrive, and the list goes on. These complaints have taken a sharp rise in the past several years.

While I understand the need for security, it is important that the United States remains friendly to all peoples. We should be welcoming as possible and stay true to the fact that we are a country of immigrants.

However...

What doesn't help our country is this culture of unilateralism and the 'my way or the highway' attitude which has come from the very top levels of our government and has filtered down to even the lowest level TSA employee. The result is our government treating many foreigners in the most condescending manner possible.


[Edited 2006-02-24 06:07:03]
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rongotai
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:06 pm

What is not standard interrnational practice is the requirement to go through immigration when you are transiting LAX on the same flight e.g. NZ2 AKL-LAX-LHR. This situation is so appalling that I no longer go tghrough the US for my frequent NZ-Europe trips. I go through SIN or HKG instead.

Another thing that is not standard international practice is the level of rudeness and downright beligerence offered to passengers by (some, not all) immigration officials at LAX - even to those who aren't doing anything other than get off the plane so they can clean it.

The final thing that is not standard international practice in developed countries is the risk of random denial of entry to passengers who have met all published immigration requirements. This hasn't happened to me, but it happens often enough to make it too high risk to go through the US on business trips to Europe.

[Edited 2006-02-24 06:12:12]
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
It would then loose its sterile status. What you are suggesting is to have passengers that have cleared customs and headed to AA domestic flights mix with inbound international arrival passengers walking over to TBIT for clearance.

then couldn't a wall be built that divided the tunnel or another tunnel be built. This would seem to be a very low cost option?
 
cvg2lga
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting Max999 (Reply 8):
What doesn't help our country is this culture of unilateralism and the 'my way or the highway' attitude which has come from the very top levels of our government and has filtered down to even the lowest level TSA employee. The result is our government treating many foreigners in the most condescending manner possible.

You are right in that this attitude doesn't help. But remember whenever someone is "the lowest level" employee of any company, you do what the boss says, or you get the hell out the door. It is that way... or the highway of unemployment. What also doesn't help is the fact that people think just because they came up with a solution and it makes sense to them that it must be the right and only right answer. Often times they are not thinking about things that those who were charged with making this decision have reviewed such as studies, statistics and specifically as mentioned, keeping the sterility of the environment. Perhaps it would only make more congestion to open this tunnel up with a dividing wall for cleared and non cleared pax. But then I don't know this is just what I thought when reading the posts.
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LAXintl
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 10):
then couldn't a wall be built that divided the tunnel or another tunnel be built. This would seem to be a very low cost option?

I'm not sure this is really practical.

Firstly the tunnel (which in some portions is a covered walkway outside adjacent to the tarmac) is not really that large and dividing it I would guesstimate only for allow 2 people walking side by side on each side of the divider.

In addition the entire end at AA would need redesign as it currently feeds down from a sterile corridor from the gates upstairs and the T-4 FIS area.
Any passengers making use of the tunnel from TBIT to T-4 would need to be channeled to an area prior to the security check points for the required screening prior to accessing any T-4 gates.

As such its just as easy to use the current method of using either the upper or lower roadways between TBIT and T-4.
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Simpilicity
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:08 pm

I think with QF again flying SYD/SFO from Jun-Jul QF will find experienced travllers will flock to SFO services to avoid LAX. This will surely lead to less QF services to LAX & more to SFO (initially only 3/week on trial basis for something like 6 weeks then again in DEC-JAN).
 
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:08 pm

I'm actually sitting at LAX right now awating my next flight on American and frankly, I don't see this as a bad joke or any kind of joke for that matter.
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting Cmk10 (Reply 14):
I'm actually sitting at LAX right now awating my next flight on American and frankly, I don't see this as a bad joke or any kind of joke for that matter.

Did u fly in internationally? Or r u talking domestic to domestic?
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:46 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 15):
Quoting Cmk10 (Reply 14):
I'm actually sitting at LAX right now awating my next flight on American and frankly, I don't see this as a bad joke or any kind of joke for that matter.

Did u fly in internationally? Or r u talking domestic to domestic?

This discussion is about transferring from int to dom or v.v. Sorry if not 100% clear on that.
 
B707321C
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
Lastly, I'd ask for you to please identify an airport where one can arrive off an international flight and not have to reclear security prior to boarding a domestic flight?
I travel over 25 weeks a year and whether its Japan, Europe, South America must always clear thru local security at some point of my journey.

I think you are mixing up Security checks with Passport control and Customs control. Arriving off an international flight, Passport and customs needs to be cleared before departing on a domestic flight in most places. Security can be different. In a lot of airport no further check are needed as long as you stay in the secure zone.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:58 pm

Quoting B707321C (Reply 17):
I think you are mixing up Security checks with Passport control and Customs control

In general as a recommend and best practice International arriving passengers will clear security prior to reboarding a domestic or often international flight.

This in most cases is done in the transit area of airport such as in Europe/Asia or via entry to terminals/concourses as done in the US.

The reason behind this is that government authorities in general do not want the liability of having a person somehow eluded security in a foreign port being given further free reign to sterile areas and another potential flight.

Such follow up screening requirements have been even spelled out in bilateral treaties amongst countries to ensure compliance on occasion.
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as739x
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:29 pm

Moral of the story is SYD-SFO starts March 29th.

Working here at LAX for 4 months has been and eye opener. A select few airlines have a nice setup. Some of those carriers though do not. Connecting to codeshare partners doesn't seem to be LAX's best aspect.

ASLAX
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max999
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 11):
You are right in that this attitude doesn't help. But remember whenever someone is "the lowest level" employee of any company, you do what the boss says, or you get the hell out the door. It is that way... or the highway of unemployment. What also doesn't help is the fact that people think just because they came up with a solution and it makes sense to them that it must be the right and only right answer. Often times they are not thinking about things that those who were charged with making this decision have reviewed such as studies, statistics and specifically as mentioned, keeping the sterility of the environment. Perhaps it would only make more congestion to open this tunnel up with a dividing wall for cleared and non cleared pax. But then I don't know this is just what I thought when reading the posts.
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travelin man
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 16):
This discussion is about transferring from int to dom or v.v. Sorry if not 100% clear on that.

Maybe I'm confused, but when arriving in SYD from LAX, don't you have to go to an entirely DIFFERENT terminal to catch a QF domestic flight? Don't you have to go through security again? I'm not sure about this, but I know QF has a separate domestic terminal in SYD.
 
hb88
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
It is indeed a free country, you are free to vote via your dollars to choose another airport like SFO or HNL or even another country if you dont feel the US does not deserves your presence.

And we do.

Avoiding the personal snipe there, like another member here I make frequent trips back to New Zealand and never if I can possibly help it, ever fly via LAX. I also strongly advise friends, family and aquaintances to do likewise. The whole immigration clearance issue for transiting pax is a mind-numbing joke and never mind the third-world terminal or scary Men With Guns everywhere.

After a 11hr flight facing another 12hrs in the air, the last thing you want is to have to clear immigration, wait for bags, check back in, clear immigration, clear security, then wait in a stuffy departure lounge with perhaps a magazine shop if you're lucky.

As for the "do not congregate around toilets inflight" announcement - when I heard that on the last QF flight I took LHR/LAX/AKL it got a few laughs. But I do wonder which particular genuis was released from his padded cell long enough to scribble that one down...

"Sir... yes, YOU SIR, stay seated for 11hrs, thank you for your cooperation."

In any case, I think it's a legitimate gripe - how many pax have brought tickets to a destination without realising the consequences of transiting through the US? It makes a very long flight much longer and more stessful. Last time I transitted Miami, it was at least a little more relaxing as I completely missed my connecting flight to Sao Paulo because of the idiotic immigration/check/recheck business. In situations like that, it's always wise to give up trying to get anywhere and chill.

Sorry, but give me Changi, Dong Muang or KL any day of the week - particularly the rooftop pool at Changi - good stuff for stretching before hitting the air for another long hop.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:03 am

As the Osmond family sang in the early 1970's, "One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch".

There are wonderful friendly Americans (of which I like to think I am), and there are ignorant, self-important, idiots in positions of power. There are security people in the United States that are genuinely concerned with keeping airports safe and others who see their job as a "fiefdom" to compensate, perhaps, for other "inadequacies".

I believe the spirit of the original discussion refers to facilities, not staffing. Let us return to that topic, as personnel problems can be found in every airport on the planet.

LAX was never designed as a connecting airport. The facilities are mainly designed for O&D passengers. The astonishing population growth of California in the last 50-60 years has left most facilities and services in the state strained to the point of collapse. Try driving from southern Orange County to the Santa Clarita Valley or from San Bernardino to Ventura during any rush hour (a redundant term anymore) or during rain - the meaning of the word "eternity" will become crystal clear. Add to this mixture NIMBY's that cannot see tomorrow much less any future event that does not involve their SUV or extra-tall mocha soy double skinny latte, and you'll understand why LAX (and every other aspect of California) is the way it is.

Putting the issue of "security" aside, LAX desperately needs something like a monorail or AirTrain (a la EWR) to connect the terminals. Even if it was outside of security, it would be MUCH easier than having to negotiate the ridiculously large number of busses and drop-off/pick-up vehicles already on the lower level. No tunnels, no short-cuts, but a circular tram could make domestic-to-international (and vice-versa) as well as domestic-to-domestic connections in different terminals a lot simpler.

The only issues I might see any solution to in security is some kind of stand-by staff for delayed flights. If a QF flight is delayed and doesn't arrive until say 3 AM, it would be ridiculous to expect passengers who have already been delayed to wait on the plane another 4 hours, especially at the end of a 14 hour flight.

I do agree that unless you absolutely have to, don't transit via LAX.
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andessmf
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 23):
LAX was never designed as a connecting airport

Love the post and the good use of the word 'eternity'. Made the mistake last year of getting into I-10 at 5:00 pm. Could have walked faster to my destination!!

But you are right, most airports werent built for connecting traffic. The best way to do it now would be a single security point for all passangers and connected terminal that would allow travel between them, w/o going thru security again.
 
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Thread starter):
Moral of the story, avoid LAX like the plague, fly via SFO or HNL or avoid the U.S. altogether & go to Canada instead, the yanks don't really want our money!!!

LAX is just fine. You just don't like it. And what you think only amounts to a rant on the a.net civil fourm.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 3):
Maybe we should just tell people thinking of going to the u.s. not too bother, the whole place is a mess, huge deficit, it'll be owned by China soon anyway. Besides, they're shooting lawyers there now. Dodgy Cheney shot lawyer recently & if VP thinks he can & gets away with it, then soon everyone will be taking pot shots at lawyers. (what did the guy owe Cheney or didn't he do what he was told?)

What does this have to do with anything?

Dude, the only thing shot is your credibility.

B
 
sllevin
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 3):
Perhaps this tunnel should be opened up to arriving INT pax to get to T4 especially as it already exists.

Let me get this straight...you want to go through and have access to your checked bags (which can include all kinds of things that cannot be carried onboard), and then go through to the domestic flight without any kind of security check?

I'll be the first to agree that security is moderately cursory, but did it ever occur to you that it's also used to see who's really jumpy about it? Believe it or not, most people who would be violating the law (and, say, planning to kill many others) aren't exactly Cool Hand Luke.

Quoting Hb88 (Reply 22):
After a 11hr flight facing another 12hrs in the air, the last thing you want is to have to clear immigration, wait for bags, check back in, clear immigration, clear security, then wait in a stuffy departure lounge with perhaps a magazine shop if you're lucky.

No doubt that not having a true 'transit' portion of the airport makes it more cumbersome. But you have to be a realist -- the amount of transit pax is simply not high enough to justify that expense. Only four flights come to mind: the NZ AKL-LAX-LHR, RG's former GRU-LAX-NRT, AF's CDG-LAX-PPT, and TN's CDG-LAX-PPT (and are those two the same flight just a codeshare?)

LAX just isn't, for the most part, a natural transit point.

As far as 24 hour FIS services, if the airlines want to pay for it, then great. Clearly, the airlines have asked for lower fees in exchange for limited hours.

Steve
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 26):
Let me get this straight...you want to go through and have access to your checked bags (which can include all kinds of things that cannot be carried onboard), and then go through to the domestic flight without any kind of security check?

N O !!!

Customs & immigration is the only real security at most U.S. airports. (in the travel industry we laugh at U.S. so called security, enforced by many on minimum wages who barely speak english in many cases - the U.S. would be better to dispand it completely - not kidding anyone, just inconveniencing everyone & if u piss people off they might not come back. With the U.S. economy & deficit going down the toilet, all u yanks out there better start learning Chinese fast as they'll be your masters soon !!!

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 26):
I'll be the first to agree that security is moderately cursory, but did it ever occur to you that it's also used to see who's really jumpy about it? Believe it or not, most people who would be violating the law (and, say, planning to kill many others) aren't exactly Cool Hand Luke.

Wake up !!! Al qiuda or whoever, can very easily get into U.S. much easier than going thru a commercial airport. It's incredibly easy to cross the border from Canada (thousands of miles of eg. border with Washington State & further east, when you could cross anytime of day ort night, especially in winter, or Mexico (hell pooor Mexicans can do it ) or they fly in a on Learjet full of cocaine & avoid radar, it's not rocket science !!!

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 26):
As far as 24 hour FIS services, if the airlines want to pay for it, then great. Clearly, the airlines have asked for lower fees in exchange for limited hours.

LAX - the non 24 hour airport. Everyone just laughed that the U.S. have a runway open but not customs/immigation facilities open.
 
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 21):
Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 16):
This discussion is about transferring from int to dom or v.v. Sorry if not 100% clear on that.

Maybe I'm confused, but when arriving in SYD from LAX, don't you have to go to an entirely DIFFERENT terminal to catch a QF domestic flight? Don't you have to go through security again? I'm not sure about this, but I know QF has a separate domestic terminal in SYD.

Yes thats correct about QF in SYD
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don81603
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 16):
This discussion is about transferring from int to dom or v.v. Sorry if not 100% clear on that.

Both times I've transited LAX was International to international flights (YYC to TPE and vice versa via LAX. The trip to TPE< I made sure I had sufficient time to transit CBP (I knew there was a possible lengthy delay, as I deal with CBP at land ports on a fairly regular basis). On the way back, no hassles at all, as everyone was screened by CBP in TPE, so when we landed, just the routine questions, and we were on our way. The only "hassle", if you can call it that I experienced on the whole trip, was BNE having 5 near full 744's arriving at the gates within 5 minutes of each other. Lined up worse than anything I'd ever seen, including the lines at land ports to the US just after 9/11.

Did any of this really bother me? Hell no! Life is too short to worry about petty inconveniences. If you "Don't have time for this nonsense", then in my opinion, you didn't plan your trip properly. As a rule, for an international connection, I like to allow 3 hours. 2 for domestic. I always arrive at the airport 2 to 3 hours before departure, in case someone in line ahead of me has no clue what they're doing and slows the whole line down.

95% of these CBP, customs, immigrations and all other issues are "created" by not following the saying of a fiction charactor in Tom Clancy's books: "Always use rule 6P: Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 4):
Terminal 2 is not the good either. I came in on CA and felt the arrival terminal to be a bit worn.

A bit? I think the airport in Beirut is glorious compared to good ol' T2.
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ZKOJH
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:57 pm

Im doing LHR-AKL via LAX on NZ1 at the end of april, and made up my mind that this will be the last time I go via the states, LAX has lost the plot, just waiting for NZ to open up AKL, VIA THE EAST from LON ! sometime this year ,
Vietnam time..
 
CTHEWORLD
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:22 am

I travel through LAX internationally quite often, INS/Customs in Terminal 7 moves quite nicely, and luggage is rechecked in the secured area, then you just pop upstairs to the terminal. Simpleton, maybe you shuold try a different airline...or for the sake of the UA employees, keep your whiny butt on QF.
 
SA7700
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 30):
A bit? I think the airport in Beirut is glorious compared to good ol' T2.

How does Beirut compare to the 1996-version of Cairo airport? That was an experience I will never forget - in retrospect it was actually quite hilarious!  Smile

Back to LAX - I am planning a RTW on Star for December and was torn whether to fly from AKL-LAS via SFO or LAX. I just decided to rather go via SFO.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
PITA333
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:29 am

Yeah, I agree that LAX can be a complicated airport if you need to get out of TBI and go to one of the other terminals. I try to avoid TBI at all costs. I really don't care for it AT ALL.
 
cyclonic
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:59 am

Unfortunately, its sad that a rockin' town like Los Angeles has ended up with an airport like LAX. Its not so bad for domestic, but for International travellers, its is a joke.

At least i've had some friendly staff there, and i've found a pleasant smile and lots of nice manners usually helps a bit.

A lot of it is about being prepared. Thats why QF allows 8 hours between flights if you're transiting at LAX. I you know what you're in for, then you'll be able to deal with the situation a lot better.

However, if you find its going to be too much (and I guess after 12 hours in the air, anything can be too much), you'd be better transiting at another airport.
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
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PA110
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:17 am

First off Simplicity, the word is NONSENSE, not NonScience. Second, LAX has never claimed to be a 24 hour airport. Third, it is no secret that U.S. airports are not set up for international transit traffic. If you think LAX sucks, try JFK.

Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't use it.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
Guest

RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 16):
This discussion is about transferring from int to dom or v.v. Sorry if not 100% clear on

Is it?

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 3):
Maybe we should just tell people thinking of going to the u.s. not too bother, the whole place is a mess, huge deficit, it'll be owned by China soon anyway. Besides, they're shooting lawyers there now. Dodgy Cheney shot lawyer recently & if VP thinks he can & gets away with it, then soon everyone will be taking pot shots at lawyers. (what did the guy owe Cheney or didn't he do what he was told?)

Are you sure? Sounds like it's a little anti-American tantrum.

B
 
SA7700
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 36):
try JFK

Strangely enough I have never had a problem connecting at JFK, even from T3 to T7. Maybe the inner-loop Airtrain at JFK makes it an easier process than it would be at LAX where there is not such a facility, other than bus transfers.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 36):
Third, it is no secret that U.S. airports are not set up for international transit traffic.

Why is that? Even though I'm South African, I have transited internationally through JNB in no time - and this is Africa. How long, for instance, has NZ been flying via LAX to LHR? I am not sarcastic, just interested.


Thanks for your reply

Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
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PA110
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:56 am

The major U.S. international gateway airports were built in an era when there were few, if any, international transit routes via the USA. The overwhelming majority of passengers originated or terminated their journey in the USA.

[Edited 2006-02-25 18:56:53]
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
SA7700
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 39):
The major U.S. international gateway airports were built in an era when there were few, if any, international transit routes via the USA. The overwhelming majority of passengers originated or terminated their journey in the USA.

So was JNB and you also have to take into account that South Africa saw very few, if any, transiting pax through JNB during the apartheid-era. However, after 1994, the airport underwent major changes and is undergoing further renovations and extensions as we speak.

Is politics or money really the issue in the USA, with regards to airport renovations?


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
BA
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 30):
A bit? I think the airport in Beirut is glorious compared to good ol' T2.

Beirut has a new terminal that was completed in 2000.

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Simpilicity
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 36):
Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't use it.

that's my point, people are so annoyed they say, I don't know whether I want to go the the U.S. ever again & the U.S. needs every tourist dollar it gets. Tourism is one industry they can't give to the Chinese, unlike most manufacturing.

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 37):
Are you sure? Sounds like it's a little anti-American tantrum.

Hey someone's got to tell u. Have u seen your deficit lately. Nice debt for your children !!!
 
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 42):
Hey someone's got to tell u. Have u seen your deficit lately. Nice debt for your children !!!

And posting this on the a.net civil forum is going to do what exactly?

Here's a thought, why don't you save your political opinions for the non av forum, and keep this about aviation.

On that note, if you don't wanna conx thru LA, and if you can't stand the US, and if you don't wanna come here, just don't. You won't be so miserable, and the US will be happy you're not here.

B
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:38 am

That's right and I totally agree with Simplicity. In my experience, transit in SFO is the best. That's why I always keep avoiding flying to transit in LAX before I board the plane to Vancouver. I always go there many times. I would like to share my experience about transit in LAX. When I arrived in LAX by Qantas, we walked from the TBIT to the AA Terminal via the tunnel. The custom and immigration are too small in AA termial and there are not enough customer officers. Also, there was no one helped me to tranfer my lugguage to Alaska Airlines terminal. So I had to carry them to AS terminal. What a long way to walk across the road. I was sooo tired and wasnt comfortable to see LAX airport and terminal. Too crowded in AA terminal and all the terminals. I was really stressful too much because I was worried that I may miss the flight to YVR. I was not really enjoy visiting LAX.

Last year, I chose ANZ to SFO. I felt much better than LAX. There were lots of people helping me around in SFO. No more stressful and not many crowded. People in SFO were friendly. It looked very clean in SFO I've ever seen. I was really impressed with SFO service.
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AirWillie6475
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:40 am

LAX has one of the most smallest areas of land to operate in compared to ORD or DEN which have 3 times the land area of LAX. The terminals are built very closely. Transfering to the other terminlas is not that hard just get on a bus. And yes you have to go through security if transfering to a domestic flight, that goes for every airport. I remember last time I flew Int to Frankfurt from LAX, when we arrived we went through another set of security to board our connecting domestic european flight. By the way when you said avoid U.S alltogether try going through Vancouver, I had to wait about 1 hour in line at customs. Also if you go through SFO, flights are never ontime there. I think LAX is one of the most efficient large aiports in the U.S. International flying has it's own separate problems, it's not the airports fault. Don't forget LAX is the 5th biggest in the world(3rd in U.S), so you need some patience when going through it, it's not you avarage local airport.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 44):
The custom and immigration are too small in AA termial and there are not enough customer officers.

A couple things to keep in mind regarding LAX compared to SFO.

SFO only has a single FIS facility. LAX on the other hand at the urging and funding of airlines has multiple FIS facilities. Smaller individual FIS facilities exist at T-2, T-4, T-5 and T-6/7 in addition to the larger TBIT.

While I agree the new SFO international terminal is very nice, I also very much like the fact that at LAX individual major carriers can have its own facilities and the convenience it offers in online connections. No need to transfer facilities as one needs to at SFO for instance.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 45):
Also if you go through SFO, flights are never ontime there. I think LAX is one of the most efficient large airports in the U.S.

Indeed per DOT records LAX was one of best airport in the country for ontime performance.
SFO suffers from both weather, ATC, and general capacity issues which reduce its performance.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 27):
LAX - the non 24 hour airport. Everyone just laughed that the U.S. have a runway open but not customs/immigation facilities open.

LAX is very much a 24hour airport. No curfews or noise issues restricting 24 hour operations, unlike many airports around the world including some in your own Australia.
However due to a total lack of demand for international flights at odd hours like 3am, the FIS service core hour are set for 0700-2300 daily. If there was demand for flights on the back side of the clock airline funding would provide for FIS services. Its a simply supply/demand equation.

As I've said before only JFK and possibly MIA are the sole 24hour FIS airports in the US.

Lastly of the top 10 airports in the world, its funny that not a single one has 24 hour customs either. ATL, ORD, LHR, FRA, DFW, HND etc all have either curfews or limited FIS hours. So LAX not being 24/7 is not an unusual fact at all.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Guest

RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 46):
Lastly of the top 10 airports in the world, its funny that not a single one has 24 hour customs either. ATL, ORD, LHR, FRA, DFW, HND etc all have either curfews or limited FIS hours. So LAX not being 24/7 is not an unusual fact at all.

But logic and facts don't matter man, HE doesn't like it! And if HE doesn't like it, the whole country sucks!  Wink

B
 
sllevin
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 44):
In my experience, transit in SFO is the best.

The same exact issues would occur at SFO. I don't believe that SFO is 24x7 customs and immigration, and you certainly have to re-enter security after re-checking your luggage.

I wasn't aware there were countries that allowed you access to your checked baggae inside security; to be honest, I would seriously question the "security" of such a system.

The 24 hour comment is a total farce. Many international airports, such as SYD, AKL, LHR, NRT have curfews and don't even allow the landings 24x7. If you arrive early, you hold in the air, and if you don't have enough fuel to hold, you divert to an alternate airport.

The only valid point is that LAX, like all airports in the US, are sub-optimal for international transit because they don't have secure 'transit' facilities. While the case could be made for MIA (and I personally DO think MIA should have built a secure transit facility) it makes no sense anywhere else when you are dealing with no real transit traffic.

Steve
 
satx
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RE: Transitting LAX A Bad Joke!

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Thread starter):
the yanks don't really want our money!!!

Oh, we want your money alright, but do you have to come with it?  Wink

On a more serious note, have you made your feelings known to Qantas and the LAX management? If not, maybe you should start with them and then come on here to relay what they had to say about it. Just bitching about it to A.netters isn't going to solve the problem on its own. If you don't want to go down that path, then perhaps you should just transit elsewhere and be done with it?

Anyway, LAX may be a joke of an airport in some ways, but it has redeeming qualities as well. It also fares decently enough among other high-volume airports. For instance, when flying out of LHR T3 I had to go through "reverse security" after strolling along the gate area just to get back into the duty-free area. WTF is that about?
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