airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:45 am

Everyone has been so busy speculating over the future of NW and DL, what with the possible strikes and the bankruptcy and such that I haven't seen any threads about the future of Alaska. I did a search, and found nothing about it.

We've all seen the incidents that Alasks has been dealing with lately, they all seem to be happening WAY to close together. In fact I don't remember any other set of incidents so close together.

I find it strange that the airline can continue to operate without any sort of (visible) worry after the recent incidents, which include multiple depressurizations, POSSIBLE depressurizations, ignorant ground workers, and workers getting into fights with other airlines workers.

The latest I read was this: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...2002826382_webhandlerfight24.html, having to do with the fight.

Here is a list of the pressure problems. (from http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ocalnews/2002825573_alaska24.html)

Feb. 23: Forty-five minutes after departing Juneau, Alaska, the altitude-warning horn sounded aboard Flight 65, indicating insufficient cabin pressure. The 737-400 descended to 10,000 feet and continued to Anchorage as planned. One passenger was treated for ear pain. The cause of the incident is under review.

Feb. 22: Flight 397 from Ontario, Calif., to Seattle landed in Los Angeles because the crew believed the MD-80 was pressurizing more slowly than usual. A post-flight inspection indicated the system was functioning within normal levels.

Feb. 21: Flight 100 from Portland to Denver returned to Portland after oxygen masks in the 737-400 deployed 15 minutes after takeoff. The reason for the deployment, and whether it was linked to a pressurization problem, are under review.

Feb. 18: Flight 1 from Washington Reagan National to Seattle was diverted to Washington Dulles after pilots noticed a problem with the 737-700's pressure six minutes after takeoff. Mechanics found a rear door had not been latched properly.

Feb. 14: Flight 578 from Seattle to Denver returned to Sea-Tac 15 or 20 minutes after departure after the 737-400's pressurization system malfunctioned. Five passengers were treated for ear and sinus pain. The cause was an electrical malfunction.

Dec. 26: Flight 536 from Seattle to Burbank, Calif., made an emergency landing at Sea-Tac after a 1-foot-by-6-inch hole opened in the fuselage of the MD-83 at 26,000 feet, causing the plane to lose pressure. A ramp worker had bumped the plane with a baggage loader before takeoff and failed to report it.



In that article, the FAA doesn't appear worried about what has been happening, and I find that damn strange as well. Maybe Alaska is not "major" enough to worry about, but I think if it was NW, DL, CO, UA, or AA that the FAA would be ALL over it.

Another thing is Gang graffiti spray painted in the hold of at least one aircraft..

IMO- the problem stems from the outsourcing of the ramp workers. The company they have doing it now is extremely incompetant, and is more of a liability then anything.

If these problems continue, I can't see Alaska being able to continue operating, and I can see them going away a LOT faster then NW or DL.

Thoughts?

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

Alaska aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They are profitable, gang graffiti isn't isolated to Alaska, the reported incidents aren't all that rare on other airlines, the FAA is behaving fairly within it's remit. My thoughts? It's not worth thinking about...
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
spirtofalaska
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:36 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
My thoughts? It's not worth thinking about...

exactly. Words right out of my mouth!
you fo'Coffee?
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:43 am

http://www.king5.com/sharedcontent/northwest/flash/alaska2.htm

I think Alaska has great futures ahead for them,,, only if......... They clean the Execs house. The airline is really headed in a bad direction, and the real blame could be aimed directly at Bill Ayer and crew.

Some will throw the blame on the media for all of the recent exposure, but remember that passengers will contact the media too. I think that Alaska has a serious road to climb after all of the issues they have exposed on them. Menzies is a huge black eye on Alaska, and to continue with them would be a disaster.


Clean house, and fix what the Bill Ayer crews have destroyed... The front line employees. The current execs forgot who makes the airline successful. They have dismantled work groups, outsourced work, and lost the trust of the remainder of the work staff.

On a side note, the passenger bookings and future bookings have to be affected. I have a source in res that says everytime an incident occurs, they have had passengers call and cancel reservations. Perhaps Alaska should be concerned about the customers and employees.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:48 am

Talk about AS's future is premature. The company is in relatively good financial shape, posting a profit in the last quarter of 2005.

That being said (and despite the bad press they're getting in the Seattle media), the outsourcing of the SEA ramp has been an internal and external disaster. It has generated a lot of anger and bitterness among Alaska's employees, caused operational chaos over the summer and revelation that Menses still hasen't gotten their operational act together to the point that their presence has become a liability to the company's reputation for stellar customer service.

Worse still, the whole is now less about operational efficiency than it is about managerial hubris. AS management seem hell-bent on making the outsourced operation work whatever the cost to fleets or customer reputation. Hopes they could ride out the storm don't seem to be working though...

AS management need to swallow their pride and do the right thing: bring the ramp work back in-house.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:53 am

Outsourcing they're ramp work was a terrible idea to begin with. I think everyone could see where that idea was headed. It was a horrible choice that is proving to be a horrible choice day in and day out. Menzies is a horrible company, which I doubt fully screens it's employees.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 3):

Clean house, and fix what the Bill Ayer crews have destroyed...

This I will agree with, and I'd be at the head of the line to sign a 'Menzies Out' petition. But, that said, the media attention will die down and turn it's attention to another airline for a while, and AS will be fine.

I would like to see Ayer and his cronies removed from office, but this is the fourth or fifth thread in as many days regarding the "impending doom" of Alaska, and barring a major incident (a fatal crash that points the finger firmly at Alaska negligence), I maintain my conclusion: AS will ultimately be fine. There are bigger and older airlines that are in worse situations...

As a sidenote, I'm an AS shareholder (albeit a small number of shares), and at the last Shareholder AGM, I spoke to several other shareholders regarding their opinions of Ayer and his gang, and most were airing on the side of negative. If something happened to cause a serious dip in ALK value, I think we'd see a large number of shareholders call an Interim Shareholder GM and ask for the head of Ayer and his buddies on a plate.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
as739x
Posts: 5022
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:54 am

Sorry to disagree, but this same crap happened when we had our own ramper. The reason that Menzies is making a name for themselves is that Seattle media has practically set up shop at Sea-Tac and as you said internally its been very bitter. Fact being though, Alaska rampers made the same mistakes, sent the wrong bags to wrong cites, etc. When I started with AS a was shocked in the mistakes AS rampers made. Now I am not saying it was the right thing to do, but let not forget Menzies at SEA gets into the news if one of their rampers slips on an oil spot.

I think Alaska's futures is good. I agree with you IFE and Spirit.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
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RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:57 am

MISSION STATEMENT
To Have The Best People,
Provide The Safest and Best Service,
For The Best Value,
To Each Customer Each Day.

VALUES

Alaska Spirit
Alaska Spirit is the heart of Alaska Airlines. It springs from our rich heritage as a pioneer in a state where aviation plays a vital role in the life of every resident. Throughout our system, the Alaska Spirit defines the unique character of Alaska Airlines. Our fun loving, energetic, and adventurous personality flows from this spirit, as does our belief in service and community involvement. From our Alaska Spirit comes the pride, passion, and perseverance that sets Alaska apart.

Resourcefulness
Our bias towards action and our readiness to adapt to change and to master difficult challenges exemplify the "CAN DO" heritage of Alaska Airlines. We embrace an atmosphere where hard work, initiative, and teamwork are a tradition, and where creativity and innovation flourish.

Integrity
Our actions will reflect our absolute commitment to ethical and honest behavior. When faced with uncertainty we will always use our best judgment to do the "RIGHT THING."

Professionalism
As proven professionals, we each bring a high level of individual skill, expertise, and commitment to our work. We take great pride in the fact that our individual and collective accomplishments have earned broad respect and a reputation for safe, reliable, quality service.

Caring
Caring about and helping people is the soul of Alaska Airlines. We regularly go the extra mile to help our customers, our community, and each other with friendliness, caring, and genuine concern. We believe our lives are enriched by individual acts of kindness and compassion.

CRITICAL SUCCESS FACTORS

Safety
We have an uncompromising commitment to safety. The well being of our employees and customers will override any other consideration.

Continual Improvement
Our continuous improvement is driven by the willingness of each individual employee to embrace change, to pursue innovation and creativity, and to learn.

Quality People
We will attract and develop talented people who share the values and spirit of Alaska employees.

Profitability
Our corporate and individual success depends upon consistently producing profits sufficient to support growth and provide a reasonable return to our investors.

Quality Service
We differentiate ourselves from our competition by providing genuinely personal and caring service to our customers and continually finding better ways to meet their needs.

Reliability
We will provide a consistent, on time service upon which our customers can depend.






I guess we could say they are failing miserably at their own goals.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 7):
Sorry to disagree, but this same crap happened when we had our own ramper. The reason that Menzies is making a name for themselves is that Seattle media has practically set up shop at Sea-Tac and as you said internally its been very bitter. Fact being though, Alaska rampers made the same mistakes, sent the wrong bags to wrong cites, etc. When I started with AS a was shocked in the mistakes AS rampers made. Now I am not saying it was the right thing to do, but let not forget Menzies at SEA gets into the news if one of their rampers slips on an oil spot.

I think Alaska's futures is good. I agree with you IFE and Spirit.

ASLAX

No doubt that Alaska is a great airline. The media is not parked at Sea Tac. I can say that the national news scene is picking up on the recent mishaps. Don't forget that Ayer and gang should have known that this could happen before they made the decisions they made.

I think it was poor planning, poor exec decisions, and poor relations with employees that have Alaska in the rut they are in. Will Alaska pull out of this? I am sure, but under a new leadership structure. Granted I have very little positive to say about the status of the airline, I could never be happier to see Alaska be successful. They really need to curve back to what they were before all of this. I think they know what steps to take, but I think pride is going to be the death of it if they continue running the ship the way they are.

I agree, swallow it, and do what is right. The experiment failed, and it is not showing any signs of letting up. I think several airlines watched this unfold, and learned some valuable lessons. Safety is a huge issue, and Menzies has nothing safe about them.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
I guess we could say they are failing miserably at their own goals

That must be subjective. I've never had a bad Alaska experience - always professional, they took care of me when I was on crutches (most excellently I might add), they've always flown me safely, the people I've dealt with have been an absolute pleasure, the service is quality, the service is reliable, and I'm happy to report as a shareholder that they are profitable.

Not too many failings to count there then...
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 10):
That must be subjective. I've never had a bad Alaska experience - always professional, they took care of me when I was on crutches (most excellently I might add), they've always flown me safely, the people I've dealt with have been an absolute pleasure, the service is quality, the service is reliable, and I'm happy to report as a shareholder that they are profitable.

I think AS is fine. I like to fly them, and I've never had a bad experience. I just make sure I don't have to check my bags...

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
cmsgop
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 7:09 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:17 am

I Fly them 6 times a year.SEA To PSP and SNA. I really Like them, I also like my Mileage Plan and free upgrades :*) Nothing like free Booze!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 10):
That must be subjective. I've never had a bad Alaska experience - always professional, they took care of me when I was on crutches (most excellently I might add), they've always flown me safely, the people I've dealt with have been an absolute pleasure, the service is quality, the service is reliable, and I'm happy to report as a shareholder that they are profitable.

Not too many failings to count there then...

CRITICAL SUCCESS FACTORS

Safety
We have an uncompromising commitment to safety. The well being of our employees and customers will override any other consideration.

Failed or failing grade. Menzies alone is a huge part of this.


Continual Improvement
Our continuous improvement is driven by the willingness of each individual employee to embrace change, to pursue innovation and creativity, and to learn.

Failed. They said this in September, and said everything was improving.... Today I beg to differ.


Quality People
We will attract and develop talented people who share the values and spirit of Alaska employees.

Failed. I suppose they think Menzies workers share the same values.



Profitability
Our corporate and individual success depends upon consistently producing profits sufficient to support growth and provide a reasonable return to our investors.

Pass for now. If they don't clean house, the cheeks will find other seats!



Quality Service
We differentiate ourselves from our competition by providing genuinely personal and caring service to our customers and continually finding better ways to meet their needs.

Pass on top/Fail on bottom. The employees of Alaska are the cream of the crop. Throw in Menzies, and you have the cream of the crap.



Reliability
We will provide a consistent, on time service upon which our customers can depend.


Fail.... Big time!!! Menzies is 80 percent of this one.




IFEMaster, there is no doubt that you were well taken care of, especially when you were on crutches. I have flown Alaska several times before all of the issues that have arisen. I was very happy with them, and I again have nothing but high marks for the employees that work to make the airline successful (NOT THE EXECS BTW). I just think it is time for the employees to have a fresh leader, and a fresh breath of fresh air (I guess we could throw the customers into that one too! LOL!) Even the Eskimo on the tail is starting to wear an oxygen mask!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
rwsea
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:20 am

Of my last 4 flights on AS, the experience has been the following:

12/19 - SEA-SMF: Departure 2 hours late due to late arriving aircraft
12/21 - SMF-SEA: Departure 90 mins late due to pilot calling in sick (and a second pilot taking a WN flight, even though an AS flight arrived 40 minutes earlier).
1/4 - SEA-SFO: On Time
1/6 - LAX-SEA: 90 minutes late, boarded one plane, to be told to get off due to mechanical - luckily I have status and was in F, so I was able to be reacommodated on a flight leaving soon rather than waiting for that plane to leave


The truth is that AS is scheduling themselves too thin, and this is taxing the fleet. The Menzies issue doesn't help either - a flight from DCA-SEA in November arrived on time, but I waiting nearly an hour for baggage.

AS needs to get competent people running their ground operating (I don't care if it is Menzies or who, but they need a total revamp). Secondly, they need to leave more slack in their aircraft utilization so that these mechanicals and other issues don't continue to ripple throughout the system.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:28 am

The news I got was a little fresh, and changed dramatically in the last few minutes. Apparently the Port and another agency did door searches of employees at the airport today. Nice to see them being proactive! WTG!

[Edited 2006-02-25 00:59:59]
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:18 am

People mentioned the management is screwing the people who MAKE the airline over. The front-line people. Pilots, F/A's, ticket, baggage, all of them.. That is true, but it is happening system-wide.

The layoffs of the Alaska employees and the hiring of the "outside" workers has brought a REAL hatred for management. Look at what NW did to their mechanics. And the replacement F/A's they've trained?? This adds fuel to a fire. The Alaska employees are scared as hell for their jobs, and it is starting to show. The UPPER MANAGEMENT is trying to cut cut cut but what they cut is safety.

I hope alaska doesn't go away, but if these "incidents" continue the publis will stop flying them. They'd rather have no meal, old hag F/A's, and planes that are 30 years old then the problems they see with Alaska.

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5986
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 16):
That is true, but it is happening system-wide.

Actually, to a large degree, industry wide.

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 16):
The layoffs of the Alaska employees and the hiring of the "outside" workers has brought a REAL hatred for management. Look at what NW did to their mechanics. And the replacement F/A's they've trained?? This adds fuel to a fire. The Alaska employees are scared as hell for their jobs, and it is starting to show. The UPPER MANAGEMENT is trying to cut cut cut but what they cut is safety.

I think this is a perfect example of what's going on. While I agree with your synposis to a point, it nonetheless shows that employees are scared for their jobs, so are reacting - that is why so many things are getting to the media. It isn't just because Alaska is bad, but because employees are trying to leverage themselves to save their jobs/benefits. I don't begrudge them for that necessarily, but call a spade a spade.

F9Animal, I think this is definitely the thread to post your info on, and I think you approached it the same way I might (if I agreed 100% with you) which is to state the company's own goals and use that to contrast with reality. The problem is, we don't necessarily know what reality is at this point. Unrelated incidents? Facts twisted by the news? Incomplete details? Potential (and I stress that it is only for conversation - not an accusation) employee sabotage? Or is it really, really bad management, bad contractors, and poor maintenance? Anybody with the true facts please share.

The bottom line is, we just don't know the whole picture. It could be a variety of things playing out at one time. Menzies errors combined with some unrelated pressuriztion issues, and right at the time that the media and employees getting together to paint a picture of an unsafe airline. Kind of a perfect storm, but not one that warrants "Just one more crash..." and "They can't survive this..." type of comments.

In the end, F9Animal, you seem to have a real passion for this beyond the casual observer, which is fine, but I don't think it reflects the big picture of all that is going on.

Please, though, feel free to post as you wish. It's certainly good to have the discussion.

-Dave
-Dave
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3227
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:06 am

Alaska is going to be fine, I think their current issues need to be resolved, but I don't think they're as serious as the media and some a.netters want to believe they are. They're one of the few airlines in the country turning a profit right now, their stock price is the second highest (last time I checked) among U.S. airlines, and their on-time performance should be improving soon as the new 738s come on and give their fleet some breathing room. One Alaska Air Group employee I met told me that AS is looking at having Swissport take over ground ops at SEA, and that Menzies is very likely to be shown the door sometime soon...I suppose we'll have to wait and see how the situation shapes up.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 17):
F9Animal, I think this is definitely the thread to post your info on, and I think you approached it the same way I might (if I agreed 100% with you) which is to state the company's own goals and use that to contrast with reality. The problem is, we don't necessarily know what reality is at this point. Unrelated incidents? Facts twisted by the news? Incomplete details? Potential (and I stress that it is only for conversation - not an accusation) employee sabotage? Or is it really, really bad management, bad contractors, and poor maintenance? Anybody with the true facts please share.

The bottom line is, we just don't know the whole picture. It could be a variety of things playing out at one time. Menzies errors combined with some unrelated pressuriztion issues, and right at the time that the media and employees getting together to paint a picture of an unsafe airline. Kind of a perfect storm, but not one that warrants "Just one more crash..." and "They can't survive this..." type of comments.

In the end, F9Animal, you seem to have a real passion for this beyond the casual observer, which is fine, but I don't think it reflects the big picture of all that is going on.

Please, though, feel free to post as you wish. It's certainly good to have the discussion.

-Dave

Hey Dave,

We may not see eye to eye on everything, but I think we both agree that Alaska needs to change some things. Another thing we can agree on is that Alaska is a great airline, just that some of the people at the wheel should not be at the wheel.

I could share tons of stories about some of the things I observed at Menzies. You would be in shock. I could share things that involve security issues that would make the hair on the back of your neck stick up for years. One of them involves hiring of felons. Some of the felons hired were holding management positions. <--- Well I guess that is a common issue, but not common with todays airline security requirements.

Aircraft being struck, and not reported. The first news story involving decompression due to a beltloader hitting a plane was not the first time a plane was hit and not reported. Luckily that aircraft met the earth safe!

I do hold a deep passion about the recent issues. I just don't want to see someone get hurt or killed over poor safety practices. And yes, if something is not changed quickly, we will be facing a very sad news story. I don't want to be the one that says, "I told you so."

I have lost sleep at night, worrying about this. Jokes aside, I really have alot to share. When Alaska and Menzies would not listen, the media did.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 19):
We may not see eye to eye on everything, but I think we both agree that Alaska needs to change some things. Another thing we can agree on is that Alaska is a great airline, just that some of the people at the wheel should not be at the wheel.

I could share tons of stories about some of the things I observed at Menzies. You would be in shock. I could share things that involve security issues that would make the hair on the back of your neck stick up for years. One of them involves hiring of felons. Some of the felons hired were holding management positions. <--- Well I guess that is a common issue, but not common with todays airline security requirements.

Aircraft being struck, and not reported. The first news story involving decompression due to a beltloader hitting a plane was not the first time a plane was hit and not reported. Luckily that aircraft met the earth safe!

I do hold a deep passion about the recent issues. I just don't want to see someone get hurt or killed over poor safety practices. And yes, if something is not changed quickly, we will be facing a very sad news story. I don't want to be the one that says, "I told you so."

I have lost sleep at night, worrying about this. Jokes aside, I really have alot to share. When Alaska and Menzies would not listen, the media did.

I saw some troubling things too when I worked there, so I totally understand what you are saying. As you say, I just hope no one gets killed over it.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Chugach
Posts: 962
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:13 pm

Coming from a customer's perspective (I'm MVP Gold on AS), I have mixed feelings about Ayer. I think in some ways he is stuck between a rock and a hard spot because he has had to make some difficult decisions in order to keep the airline solvent. AS has grown considerably over the last several years with the start of east coast service, and as a result I think they have gone through some growing pains.

But there is little to no doubt from an outsider's perspective that AS was a much happier place in the days of Steve Kelly. I can't remember if the "Alaska is MY Airline" campaign was under Ayer or Kelly, but regardless it seemed to reflect the attitude of employees under Kelly. Now granted the industry has changed since then, but employee morale flows down from the top, and if the employees don't trust their management, it creates for a bad working environment. And it seems like employees no longer trust management, which is a direct reflection on Ayer, whether he likes it or not.
 
nonfirm
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:04 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 21):
Steve Kelly

It was John Kelly Who is probably happy he don't work at Alaska anymore.
 
Chugach
Posts: 962
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:37 pm

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 22):
It was John Kelly Who is probably happy he don't work at Alaska anymore.

My bad! Don't know where I got Steve from.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:42 pm

There was a time, I'd prefer AS over any other carrier, ANC-SEA or west coast. Then the time came when the service went down, the on time rankings went down, the baggage "mis-directions" went up . . . and that was in the early 2000s.

That's the time I began to avoid AS . . . except on intra-Alaska routes where they have us by the balls . . .

I will fly them next month out of state for the first time in five years. To be perfectly honest, I don't expect much but a "bus ride" to LAS and back. I will check luggage, I always do - I hope it arrives.

I'm sorry to say I just don't have a lot of positive expectations . . . just a ride to LAS and back with luggage arriving on the same ride. If that's all I get I'll be fine.

AS, while a decent, safe, fairly reliable carrier is but a shadow of what it was in the 80s and 90s. Unfortunately.

It will survive, and I'm sure it will get better.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5986
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 19):
We may not see eye to eye on everything, but I think we both agree that Alaska needs to change some things. Another thing we can agree on is that Alaska is a great airline, just that some of the people at the wheel should not be at the wheel.

To be honest, I have almost no knowledge or opinion on current management. If you tell me they're lousy, I'll have to take your word for it, and I'd be dishonest if I said otherwise.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 19):
I could share tons of stories about some of the things I observed at Menzies. You would be in shock. I could share things that involve security issues that would make the hair on the back of your neck stick up for years. One of them involves hiring of felons. Some of the felons hired were holding management positions.

Why is the focus on Alaska, and not Menzies? Shouldn't we be hearing about Menzies in the news? Alaska is not the only company using them, and again, it's unclear if the situation at Alaska is fully related to Menzies, or if it's a variety of things coming together at once.

Having said that, I have zero defense for either Menzies as a company or Alaska's decision to stick with them. I realize that AS management is in a really tough spot. Giving up and going back to the unionized company ramp workers would be a major blow to management bravado, and that is an important consideration when you are dealing with employee groups.

Additionally, if (or when) they give up on Menzies now, it will be all over the news, as if Alaska is admitting that their decision all along was wrong and led to an unsafe airline. Another blow to management. The reality being, of course, that many, many operations are contracted out all over the world, and this seems to be an unfortunate outcome to the outsourcing.

In the end, I have no doubt that some bad things happened and are happening behind the scenes. But I can't stress enough that we don't yet have the big picture. It might take a full FAA investigation, and heads may roll in the end. Then again, it could all just work itself out. I hope it's the latter.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 19):
Jokes aside, I really have alot to share. When Alaska and Menzies would not listen, the media did.

Again, F9Animal, I think this sentence is a loaded one. it smacks of "disgruntled ex-employee", and perhaps that's why I add a grain of salt to your posts. Not that I don't take them in, because I do think your opinions are valid, but I get the impression from this reply that you may be participating in the media involvement, and that might imply that your posts could be a way to "campaign" against the airline (or indirectly, Menzies).

Feel free to IM me if you like. I'm not trying to slander you - just trying to figure out your motivation better.

-Dave
-Dave
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:37 pm

In today's airline industry there are incredible pressure to cut costs. Think of the in flight service. I remember getting hot food on flights SEA - San Diego, now it is a bag of peanuts (or paying $ 8 for a lousy wrap).

Back around the time of the jack screw problems with AS, there was a steady drumbeat about problems in their Oakland Maint Center, which was in house. I do not have inside information but it was clear from the press reports that there were serious management - union problems there. The recent depressurizations may be a fluke, may be coming to light as the media (or employee leakers) reports on it, or might be due to a complete dedication to the maintenance by the workers, management, or both. One thing for sure, electrical problems, improper closing of doors, etc. are not caused by rampers. Gashes in the sides of planes is rampers.

Yes Menzies employees appear inept. But what was happening in the first place when it was in house that made management want to go thru the pain and hassle of outsourcing. Obviously, there was a problem there that what more a priority than the bunches of other issues that always arise.
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:59 pm

Well I am not to big on Alaska eather. I flew a LA to Puerto Vallarta flight on a MD 80 and was not pleased on that flight. MD 80's freak the HECK out of me! I try to avoid MD 80's personally with any airline. I was forced to fly one from LAX to ATL over the summer on my other trip down to GRU. But AS, I dont know, they really need to get rid of the 80's in my opinion and turn to an all 737 fleet. Possibly a 757 here and there. When they decide to update aircraft and get new people in there working in the management, we will see an Airline getting praise from SEA. I pray and hope all goes on the rise fast for AS. Quick question though...say AS does go belly up, as so said before in these convos, before NW and DL does, what happens with QA? Does it survive on its own?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5986
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 27):
But AS, I dont know, they really need to get rid of the 80's in my opinion and turn to an all 737 fleet.

You're in luck. That's exactly what they're doing. They ordered 35 737-800's last year, and I think they just added to it. In the meantime, the MD's are certainly a great aircraft (though some say it's a maintenance hog), and I actually enjoy it more due to the seating configuration being 2-3 (or is it 3-2?)

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 27):
Quick question though...say AS does go belly up, as so said before in these convos, before NW and DL does, what happens with QA? Does it survive on its own?

I think that's like someone catching a cold, and asking "If they do die, who inherits the house?" IMHO, a bit premature.

-Dave
-Dave
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:03 pm

I ment QX as you caught. Thank you. I get your point about the cold part. I just think that QX is to good of an airline to lose over AS. I dont think that QX would go under like Indy did with their smaller CRJ's. Thank you for the note as well on the 738's. Would AS get out of the bad news and into the good if they added more interesting flights like SEA-HNL, PDX-HNL, SEA-ORD/MDW?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:15 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 25):
Additionally, if (or when) they give up on Menzies now, it will be all over the news, as if Alaska is admitting that their decision all along was wrong and led to an unsafe airline. Another blow to management. The reality being, of course, that many, many operations are contracted out all over the world, and this seems to be an unfortunate outcome to the outsourcing.

I think it would be smart to raise the white flag, before the customers do.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 25):
Again, F9Animal, I think this sentence is a loaded one. it smacks of "disgruntled ex-employee", and perhaps that's why I add a grain of salt to your posts. Not that I don't take them in, because I do think your opinions are valid, but I get the impression from this reply that you may be participating in the media involvement, and that might imply that your posts could be a way to "campaign" against the airline (or indirectly, Menzies).

In no way am I a disgruntled ex-employee. When one uses every resource available to change the way something is being done and nobody listens, then the media is a powerful tool to get the message out loud and clear. Nobody involved is out to get Alaska or Menzies. Those involved don't want it to get to body bags. Just to be fair, it came damn close already, and it won't come close again. I won't dig into 261, but I think you understand what I mean about being too relaxed when issues are known and brushed under the carpet. Valujet did it, and look at what happened.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 25):
Feel free to IM me if you like. I'm not trying to slander you - just trying to figure out your motivation better.

I don't even feel you are slandering me in any way. I would be happy to chat with ya.

BTW- Mondays are always rough! Curious how this Monday will be........
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
as739x
Posts: 5022
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:18 pm

QXatFAT: if you go to Mexico again I will tell you your not getting an MD80. The MD80's will be flying no more Mexico. That was announced about 6 weeks ago.

Alaska is not getting 757's. They were offered years ago and we declined. Remember, there are so much more cost when you bring in another A/C type. We also don't have jetways at most out station that can handle the 757. We would need new sim's, whole different pilot group, more in-flight, etc. Way to costly.

And if Alaska went belly up, which is pretty unlikely, so is QX. We are the same company. AS/QX is both Alaska Air Group.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 31):
And if Alaska went belly up, which is pretty unlikely, so is QX. We are the same company. AS/QX is both Alaska Air Group.

So you dont think that QX could break off some how? Thanks for inlightening me though AS739X. I am just trying to figure things out on how a pretty good airline could withstand leaving and not going belly up like Indy.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
nonfirm
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:04 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:34 pm

[quote=QXatFAT,reply=32]So you dont think that QX could break off some how? Thanks for inlightening me though AS739X. I am just trying to figure things out on how a pretty good airline could withstand leaving and not going belly up like Indy.[/quote

if Alaska goes down everything it owns will go with it this includes as/qx and everything else.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:37 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 32):
So you dont think that QX could break off some how? Thanks for inlightening me though AS739X. I am just trying to figure things out on how a pretty good airline could withstand leaving and not going belly up like Indy.

Alaska owns Horizon. Horizon has a great product just like Alaska does. You got nothing to worry about QSatFAT. Alaska just needs to work on the upper issues, thats all. Alaska has been around forever, and built a great company. The only thing I see to resolve the bad issues is a change in Execs.

There is really no comparison with Indy. Indy was a great airline, with a bad business plan. Nobody wanted to buy them when they offered themselves for sale. If Alaska put QX up for sale tomorrow, it would take less than an hour to get bids in from other airlines.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
cyclonic
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:18 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:40 am

Alaska will be around for a long while to come yet. They aren't too bad to fly on either.
I just hope they get their issues under control.
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
flight7e7
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:26 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:26 am

Let's all hope that the obvious and not so obvious managment and maintenance issues are addressed by both AS and government officials (ha!)...before another MD-80 corkscrews into the Pacific or mid air depressurization creates a situation where the aircraft becomes incapable of flying normally, the results being disasterous and tragic beyond comprehension. They are playing russian roulet with people's lives, and it needs to stop, now.

This number of incidents, IMO is just one too many in too short a period of time. This is another Valujet waiting to happen.

Cheers!  redflag   worried 
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Flight7E7 (Reply 36):
This number of incidents, IMO is just one too many in too short a period of time. This is another Valujet waiting to happen.

Cheers! redflag worried

My exact worries! I think a Gordon Bethune would be a good candidate for Alaska! In fact, there are a few goodies that could really turn Alaska into another 1800's Gold Rush!!!!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 37):
My exact worries! I think a Gordon Bethune would be a good candidate for Alaska! In fact, there are a few goodies that could really turn Alaska into another 1800's Gold Rush!!!!

So then what does it take for things to get moving on the ex. issue? Does it take a strike? Does it take pax choiseing other airlines to fly to destinations? The paper? What dose it take then for that to happen? Will it even happen? To be realistick, I dont think things will change all that much in the ex. part of this. It will just take a few good men and women to get his head on his sholders. That is all.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 38):
It will just take a few good men and women to get his head on his sholders. That is all.

God, I hope you're right. Alternatively shareholder pressure, or an increasingly fed-up board of directors could push through change as well.

Charles, SJ

[Edited 2006-02-25 19:47:18]
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 38):
So then what does it take for things to get moving on the ex. issue? Does it take a strike? Does it take pax choiseing other airlines to fly to destinations? The paper? What dose it take then for that to happen? Will it even happen? To be realistick, I dont think things will change all that much in the ex. part of this. It will just take a few good men and women to get his head on his sholders. That is all.

Lots of factors. Confidence in his ability is starting to show a bad grade. He may decide to lay down his torch. He could also be forced out. The airline really is not looking very healthy, and most of it can be pointed at the leader. The Boards of Directors and Investors also can seriously affect him and his teams employment. There are tons of factors, but I can say that I am sure his future is being looked at by several people. He has the ultimate ability to change the direction of the airline.

I seriously doubt we will be seeing Ayer at the desk in the next 12 months. I for one am anxious to see him go! I would be excited to see a leader come in and sweep the place up.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:11 am

Do you think that Jeff Pinneo has enough say from QX to push Ayer to the right direction? Obveusly Pinneo would not want Ayer to bring down the company because then his behind is on the line.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
BeachBoy
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:05 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:34 am

Having just flown AS/QX SEA-LAS, SEA-ORD, and SJC-SEA-PDX-LAS (all ontime), I think there is no comparison between AS and any of the other airlines flying along the west coast. All employees (inflight, ticket counter, reservations) are friendly, even the most unfriendly one is much nicer than anything you find at AA or UA and they have customer-friendly policies like free same-day standby (better than WN, HP, or DL), assigned seats, easy to use website, outstanding elite benefits w/ Mileage Plan etc. In fact, I paid a small premium to fly AS/QX. I think (which probably means nothing) that AS/QX has invested in technology and finished the "dirty work" and as a result, is now well positioned for the future. I hope they remain an independent "smaller" company so they can maintain their unique friendly culture and commitment to service.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 26):
In today's airline industry there are incredible pressure to cut costs. Think of the in flight service. I remember getting hot food on flights SEA - San Diego, now it is a bag of peanuts (or paying $ 8 for a lousy wrap).

Alaska doesn't sell food from SEA-SAN and in the markets that we do sell food, we sell the wraps for $5. They're quite good actually.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 42):
Having just flown AS/QX SEA-LAS, SEA-ORD, and SJC-SEA-PDX-LAS (all ontime), I think there is no comparison between AS and any of the other airlines flying along the west coast. All employees (inflight, ticket counter, reservations) are friendly, even the most unfriendly one is much nicer than anything you find at AA or UA and they have customer-friendly policies like free same-day standby (better than WN, HP, or DL), assigned seats, easy to use website, outstanding elite benefits w/ Mileage Plan etc. In fact, I paid a small premium to fly AS/QX. I think (which probably means nothing) that AS/QX has invested in technology and finished the "dirty work" and as a result, is now well positioned for the future. I hope they remain an independent "smaller" company so they can maintain their unique friendly culture and commitment to service.

I agree BeachBoy. The front line employees do have a commitment to service. There is no doubt though that Alaska has gone from first to worst when looking at overall performance. Most of the performance issues relate to several factors when viewing the outsourcing of important jobs. Example: Goodrich was brought in to replace Alaska's OAK maintenace base. Is this a contributing factor in the recent aircraft issues? Baggage and on-time performance has taken a dive. It can be directly aimed at the outsourcing of the Seattle ramp.

When service is affected in these ways, it will eventually tug at the profits, and ultimatley lead into the red. Customers have many choices, and right now Alaska needs to be winning the customers. At the moment, I don't see it.

A chain of events have lead into the issues the airline faces today. The chain of events were human controlled, and decsions made on the Executive level. Bill Ayer and crew have this in their face, and are really doing nothing to change the problems. Change is needed ASAP, and I don't see it. That is when you have to question the top heavy chain, and decide if the chains need to be replaced. That is now what needs to be done. If not, the chain will break.

Painting over something to make it look better is what they are doing (and not talking about just the grafitti). I think that is a temporary solution, just like every decision they have made so far. Either Ayer is trying to position the airline for a sale or merger, or he is intentionally trying to ruin Alaska.

Ayer and crew need to go. I see nothing positive about their performance. Granted they have the profits now, they are really facing many rainy days ahead. The confidence of the customer and employee are quickly falling. Something MUST be done quick.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
737-990
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 40):
The airline really is not looking very healthy, and most of it can be pointed at the leader. The Boards of Directors and Investors also can seriously affect him and his teams employment. There are tons of factors

From every financial perspective out there, AS is the second healthiest domestic airline after Southwest, and as long as wall street and the stock holders are happy with that then management is safe, regardless of the media uproar over the SEA ramp. AS stock has been stable and a safe investment for the past three years. The financial community loved the cost reduction from last year and would probably want more of it. The key is to balance out those cost reduction goals without sacrificing service and employee moral. I think the pendulum swung too far in the cost reduction side last year and this year will be more focused on improving job moral and growing the company. I hope that this year the company comes to an mutual agreement with the flight attendants and on the COPS contract (res. agents and CSAs). I fear however that with the pilots contract up next year we will only have one year of tranquility.
Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5986
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 30):
Nobody involved is out to get Alaska or Menzies.

I think that is a subjective statement at best. I don't know the heart of every Alaska employee, but after talking with a few it's clear that they, at a minimum, want Menzies out in any way they can do it. If that means contacting the media every time something goes wrong, I would call that "out to get".

OTOH, I doubt most really want to hurt their airline. But they are unhappy at the changes going on and are so personally connected due to the culture that they are lashing out, hoping to affect a change. Of course, in the process, they are indeed harming the airline in the short term.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 44):
The front line employees do have a commitment to service. There is no doubt though that Alaska has gone from first to worst when looking at overall performance. Most of the performance issues relate to several factors when viewing the outsourcing of important jobs.

I've flown Alaska quite a bit over the years. My home airport is SEA, and I will say I've had a real mixed bag when it comes to customer service in Seattle. Some really great people, but some really lousy ones, too. Ironically, almost all outstation employees that I've encountered are very good to excellent. In any event, those Seattle employees are not outsourced, and virtually all of my experiences are from before the outsourcing to Menzies.

Onboard, they've always been great. The only mechanical issue we've had was an aborted takeoff at SEA where we simply throttled up, rolled, throttled down, got back in line, and left - the pilot said it was a configuration warning or something to that affect, but nothing serious at all. That was several years before Menzies, outsourcing, etc.

I guess my point is, it sounds on this forum like the employees are doing everything right, but the management is screwing it up. I think that in SEA, at least, there is a different culture within the airline that does not show as much willingness to accept change, and there are certainly a number of employees that could be trying a lot harder to please the customer, instead of worrying about some of the other things going on. That, of course, is from an outsider.

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 39):
God, I hope you're right. Alternatively shareholder pressure, or an increasingly fed-up board of directors could push through change as well.

There will be zero shareholder pressure when the stock is performing well, and the board of directors are probably in lockstep with upper management on these issues. Why do you think they outsourced? It wasn't to please the employees, that's for sure.  

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 30):
Those involved don't want it to get to body bags. Just to be fair, it came damn close already

When? Are you referring to the hole-in-the-fuselage incident? I hadn't heard that they were that close to disaster. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I am just trying to sort fact from fiction. How many times have aircraft been brought down by sudden depressurization?

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 34):
Horizon has a great product just like Alaska does.

I would actually say that Horizon is better. But they are nearly comparable, and make a great combination. I can't think of another "mainline/express" combo that can match it, with the possible exception of Midwest/Midwest Connect.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 37):
I think a Gordon Bethune would be a good candidate for Alaska!

That'd be very interesting. Unfortunately I think every airline and situation is different, and employees might - I stress might - be suprised to find that not a lot changes other than the name on a door. Perhaps a new order for Ford Explorers for perfect attendance, too.  

-Dave

[Edited 2006-02-26 06:05:55]
-Dave
 
jetboy319
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 34):
Alaska owns Horizon

Just a side note... we do not OWN Horizon Air. Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air together make up the Alaska Air Group. We operate as sister carriers. While we continue to harmonize our product in some areas, we are still, in most ways, very different and that includes our managment. Just figured I'd clarify.... Cheers!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 46):
When? Are you referring to the hole-in-the-fuselage incident? I hadn't heard that they were that close to disaster. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I am just trying to sort fact from fiction. How many times have aircraft been brought down by sudden depressurization?

There were too many "ifs" when this happened. I have heard that a few inches or feet off, it could have been very bad. I am not a mechanic, but a mechanic who saw the damage told me it was not a good thing, and it could have been much worse. Planes were not built to be banged around on.

Again, what if? What if that plane had splashed down into the sound? Would there have been any justification to it? Planes were not built to crack open at high altitude. An incompetent contractor was responsible.

Coulda woulda shoulda. I remember when Valujet 592 went down. Only after a crash is when changes are made. It took 9/11/01 to raise our security standards. It took Pan Am 103 to change procedures. It took a PSA flight in the early '80's to change the employee ID Security requirments. It took Air Florida 90 to change CRM. It took this and that to change this and that.

Why do they always wait until it is too late? If something does not change, we will be looking at another Alaska plane down. 261 was already a huge black eye, and proved to be negligence on the airline. Sour subject I know, but the truth hurts. That crash should have NEVER happened. Period. Ask the Pilots who was responsible for that one. The pilots will never forgive the top wigs for that one. You don't have to take my word for it. Out of respect though, I won't pull the "told you so" comments if it happens.

BTW- Just thought I would add that the last sentence was not directed at you personally. It was meant as a general comment to a discussion "if" it happened.

[Edited 2006-02-26 06:40:03]
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3711
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Future Of Alaska Airlines

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 47):
Just a side note... we do not OWN Horizon Air. Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air together make up the Alaska Air Group. We operate as sister carriers. While we continue to harmonize our product in some areas, we are still, in most ways, very different and that includes our managment. Just figured I'd clarify.... Cheers!

Thanks for the clairification.

Just a quick question regarding the "sister" company. Why does it have to be a sister, and not a brother? Is Alaska Airlines and Horizon considered females? I know, stupid question, but just curious where the terminology came from. I know there are many companies that refer to sister companies. When does it become a brother company? LOL! Trivia question of the day!!!!!
I Am A Different Animal!!

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