flyjetstar
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NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:45 am

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...ends/2006/02/24/1140670263191.html

At the bottom of this page it says "However, Mr Fyfe declined to rule out speculation Air NZ might consider re-entering Qantas's lucrative Sydney to Los Angeles route."

Is he just playing games and keeping his options open or are NZ serioulsy considering being a part of SYD-LAX again?

With SQ being a part of Star would they have any involvement in this decision? I know SQ and NZ haven't had teh best of relatoinship in recent years but could they be linked in this some way e.g codeshare?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting Flyjetstar (Thread starter):
I know SQ and NZ haven't had teh best of relatoinship in recent years but could they be linked in this some way e.g codeshare?

If SQ wanted to carry local traffic on that sector as a code-share, they'd have to secure 7th freedom rights vs. 5th freedom rights if they flew their own metal SIN-LAX via SYD.
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
they'd have to secure 7th freedom rights vs. 5th freedom rights

In view of which, I'd like to ask you a question about "freedoms" - but it is unrelated to this thread and I don't want to hijack the thread.

???

cheers

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hoosiercfi
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:29 am

IF NZ was smart, they would re-enter. With their new business class, and Premiere Economy, they are far far ahead of UA's offerings, and offer what looks to be a better product that QF. I think that they would make a killing. I think that a lot of people are interested in their Executive Economy Seats. Much more room, and not nearly as expensive as business class. I know a few people who have already traveled for business reasons to SYD. They were only allowed to fly coach, so they booked Preimere, and loved it. NZ's only downfall is that they no longer have Ansett flights for passengers to connect to, and DJ already code-shares with UA.
 
onedude
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:36 am

Air NZ would have aircraft issues in tying up 2-3 x 747-400's on a SYD/LAX return - the 777 can't do the range with full payload, and with their plans to fly to LGW via HKG, I can't really see this happening unless they order new aircraft. Given the downgrade of profit cited due to high fuel costs in the last 24 hours, it would be a suicidal move.
 
TG992
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:01 am

I think it's safe to say NZ won't be back on SYD-LAX in the near future. The new product on the 747s mean it would also be payload restricted on the route, making it completely uneconomical.
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Flyer88
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:09 am

NZ has made a fine decision in choosing its long haul product. They have been very well greeted by the travelling public and very much in demand. I was looking at the loads for SFO, LAX, LHR and SIN yesterday and most of the business premier and premium economy were sold out. The latter has been hughly successful, more from what NZ first anticiapted that they are even considering bringing the planes in for another re-fit giving more premium economy seats.

I would like to see NZ back on the SYD/LAX route but given that there is no feeder airline in Australia and given the position that they are in at the moment, it will be a long time coming. NZ is a very smart and cautious player and they will check out the profitability of such move before commiting to it. At the moment they have annouced a profit which is 55% down from the previous year for the 6 months along with more layoffs. They are in saving gear so will make no risky moves.

Say if they do return on the route, what will UA think of it. Will we see them back in AKL?
 
pilottim747
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Flyjetstar (Thread starter):
http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...ends/2006/02/24/1140670263191.html

Your link didnt work for me so I will repost.
Air NZ and Qantas say they can be friends -- Sydney Morning Herald (Feb 25, 2006)

Quoting Flyjetstar (Thread starter):
Is he just playing games and keeping his options open or are NZ serioulsy considering being a part of SYD-LAX again?

It'd be so great if NZ re-entered this market, IMHO. It was really sad to see NZ withdraw from it in 2003.

That being said, however, I dont see it hapenning soon because of the reasons already stated above. NZ doesn't have any extra aircraft lying around and the 777s can't do it (with any kind of decent load).

Quoting TG992 (Reply 5):
The new product on the 747s mean it would also be payload restricted on the route, making it completely uneconomical.

That's too bad. The new business class seats look pretty heavy but very comfy Smile.

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LAXintl
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:39 am

Actually could be an interesting move on Star's part to place pressure on Qantas as result of Australia's refusal to allow Singapore to enter the market.

Having 3 coordinated Star flights between LAX and SYD would undoubtedly put some fare pressure on Qantas while providing additional seats in the market and balancing the heavy tilt in favor of Qantas on route capacity.
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flyjetstar
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting TG992 (Reply 5):
I think it's safe to say NZ won't be back on SYD-LAX in the near future. The new product on the 747s mean it would also be payload restricted on the route, making it completely uneconomical.

If that is the case then why would Mr Fyfe not rule it out?
What can be gained by speculation when the reasons given on this thread so far are likely to be well known?
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:55 am

To re-enter this market would require additional aircraft assuming the 2X daily AKL-LHR goes ahead.
A "big punt" would have them buying the 747-8; a shorter one would be the -200LR and the dark horse would be using a pair of the 787-8 that are on order.
However without a feed it is difficult to see it happening. I have kicked around the thought that the second LHR service might be MEL-HKG- LHR with a feed from AKL /CHC/WLG. and use DJ as an Aus. feed.
Is there any reason why NZ and QF could not do some code sharing. It seems pretty clear that cooperation is going to happen in various forms. They had some fairly advanced thoughts before the Commerce Commission scuttled the more formal structure.
 
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting HoosierCFI (Reply 3):
IF NZ was smart, they would re-enter

Actually to the contrary, NZ, has not been fairing well lately in the area of cabin service. If NZ were to re-enter the market it would not hurt QF, it would hurt the Star Alliance member UA.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Thread starter):
Is he just playing games and keeping his options open or are NZ serioulsy considering being a part of SYD-LAX again?

Todays NZ, is not the same of 5 years ago. Back then people werent complaining of poor service, or pathetic results. Today NZ is different, and they cannot pick and chose anymore.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 8):
Actually could be an interesting move on Star's part to place pressure on Qantas as result of Australia's refusal to allow Singapore to enter the market

Dont think that QF will not fire back and run NZ far afield again...
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Flyer88
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
Todays NZ, is not the same of 5 years ago. Back then people werent complaining of poor service, or pathetic results. Today NZ is different, and they cannot pick and chose anymore.

Actually to the contrary, NZ has a service that is renowned worldwide for its warm, kind kiwi hospitality. NZ has come a long way from when it purchased AN which nearly saw it go down itself. The government did help out but if it was not for the people at Air NZ, the carrier would not be here today. The results are cause of different reasons but a large percentage is from the rising fuel costs which no airline has control over. NZ does have a product that can better QF, SQ or CX
 
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting Flyer88 (Reply 12):
Actually to the contrary

I disagree to an etxent. I've heard more and more complaints about NZ's cabin servie over the past 2 years than ever before. there appears to have been a noticable decline in the quality of the services. Particularly on flights to and from LAX.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:43 pm

I would be very surprised to see NZ get back into the SYD-LAX market - they flew the route for years and it was not a financial success; lets face it, its difficult competing against dominant Qantas on the Australia-US routes.....NZ had trouble with the Sydney service during the Ansett period, when there was feed and connex possibilities throughout Australia, now, NZ would be relying almost exclusively on pax that are going to/from SYD. And, the service does occupy 3 aircraft; the scheduling tends to require using the SYD-LAX 744 on an AKL-SYD segment several times per week for various reasons....I think that NZ has better opportunities to explore. But, as we have all learned, never say never in the airline biz.
 
koruman
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:43 pm

Air NZ would be at least 2 years away from re-entering this market. It would require either the options for 777-200LRs to be converted into orders, or the delivery of the 787s, which is still further away.

The issue of the lost Ansett feed is easily addressed. Early morning AKL-MEL and AKL-BNE A320s would then fly on to SYD with connecting passengers for the LAX service, before operating SYD-AKL and SYD-CHC services at roughly the same time as the SYD-LAX service.

Air NZ's premium and economy products are far superior to the current Qantas offerings, the issue is simply one of 777 range or BNE/MEL feed.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
the service does occupy 3 aircraft;

I keep seeing 3 quoted as the number of planes required to operate LAX-SYD-LAX, but can't figure out why it's more than 2.

A flight leaving LAX on a Monday night flies overnight, crosses the International Dateline, gaining a day, arriving Sydney Wednesday morning.

On the return, it departs Sydney at noon Wednesday, flies overnight, crosses the International Dateline, loses a day, arriving LAX Wednesday morning.

Wednesday night, the plane that flew Monday night's flight, flies to SYD again. Isn't that right?
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dutchjet
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):

I keep seeing 3 quoted as the number of planes required to operate LAX-SYD-LAX, but can't figure out why it's more than 2.

A flight leaving LAX on a Monday night flies overnight, crosses the International Dateline, gaining a day, arriving Sydney Wednesday morning.

On the return, it departs Sydney at noon Wednesday, flies overnight, crosses the International Dateline, loses a day, arriving LAX Wednesday morning.

Wednesday night, the plane that flew Monday night's flight, flies to SYD again. Isn't that right?

You are right, but there are other issues......in general, its very optimistic to schedule a plane for a 14-15 hour segment 7 days per week....maintainance and downtime are needed at set intervals, as you probably know. Next, in the case of NZ, they would have to get the 744 (the only aircraft that currently makes sense for the route in the NZ fleet) back to AKL for maintaince and other needs and to rotate the aircraft in the system (an aircraft is rarely dedicated to one route, airlines like to keep hours in balance on a fleet wide basis).....that could be done by scheduling an aircraft on a AKL-LAX-SYD-LAX-AKL rotation (probably could work) or adding extra segments such as AKL-SYD//SYD-LAX on certain days of the week to move the 744s around.....its not that easy, NZ flies very long segments with a limited fleet of 744s, and not only do the 744s cross the pacific, there is the LAX-LHR segment to consider for scheduing purporses.....for the proposed service to work, the SYD-LAX and return flights must be arranged so that connections onto London are possible.
 
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:24 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
maintainance and downtime are needed at set intervals, as you probably know.

Right, I understand that, but it seems on occasion that people state in certain terms that an airline can't fly X route because it takes Y planes, when the extra planes are just needed for maintenance issues, etc., not year-round to have a spare for every route. I'm not trying to pick on your comment in particular, it was just convenient.  Wink
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
On the return, it departs Sydney at noon Wednesday, flies overnight, crosses the International Dateline, loses a day, arriving LAX Wednesday morning.

Or as I like to put it, going back in time.
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planemanofnz
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:21 pm

Well the route does not have to start of daily. It could maybe start at 4x weekly. I think the AKL-BNE-SYD and AKL-MEL-SYD routes sound like a really good idea, except I don't think NZ would budge for it. They will be more focussed on doing the whole 'round the world' thing with there second daily LON service expected to be announced soon.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
flew the route for years and it was not a financial success

Yes, because the product offering was lacking behind QF. Now that NZ has the 747's all done up with ptv's, avod and 34" seat pitch plus premium economy and horizontal lie flat beds in business they could do this route and get a few more profits.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 20):
Well the route does not have to start of daily. It could maybe start at 4x weekly. I think the AKL-BNE-SYD and AKL-MEL-SYD routes sound like a really good idea, except I don't think NZ would budge for it. They will be more focussed on doing the whole 'round the world' thing with there second daily LON service expected to be announced soon.

Daily service on a route is more or less required if an airline wants to attract biz and full fare pax.......3 or 4 times per week simply wont work, the aircraft would be filled with vacationers on bargain tickets.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 20):

Yes, because the product offering was lacking behind QF. Now that NZ has the 747's all done up with ptv's, avod and 34" seat pitch plus premium economy and horizontal lie flat beds in business they could do this route and get a few more profits.

While the new product helps, the product offered by an airline does is a small part of success on a route - QF offers a lot of service from SYD to LAX, and has a huge amount of feed at both SYD and LAX......not to mention QF's loyal following in Australia and the fact that QF ties in with so many US airlines that outside of the OneWorld alliance. NZ tried SYD-LAX once and its unlikely that they are going back.

-----------

NZ is one of my favorite airlines and I go out of my way to fly with them when in the Pacific region......I wish them every success, but I just dont think that NZ returning to the LAX-SYD makes much sense.
 
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
could be done by scheduling an aircraft on a AKL-LAX-SYD-LAX-AKL rotation (probably could work)

When we were flying the route, this is exactly what used to happen.

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Simpilicity
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting HoosierCFI (Reply 3):
IF NZ was smart, they would re-enter.

If NZ were really smart (um, that might be an oxomoron, Kiwi really smart - ok they can play rugby even if Auckland has a Aussie coach),

they'd avoid SYD/LAX as already overserviced & look at BNE/LAX or even MEL/LAX. BNE/LAX still has only 5/week & other 2 days of week pax must go via awful SYD. We have business types who will change their meeting in U.S. to avoid this mess at SYD.

Apart from SYD originating pax, no Australian wants to fly to SYD domestically to stuff around wasting hours & hours getting the bus from domestic to international & vice versa is worse. Unless u've done it, u don't know how bad it is.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 23):
they'd avoid SYD/LAX as already overserviced & look at BNE/LAX or even MEL/LAX.

sorry wasn't thinking ... they'd be too payload restricted on MEL/LAX & especially LAX/MEL, but I think LAX/BNE is about 600 miles less than LAX/SYD.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Flyer88 (Reply 12):
Actually to the contrary, NZ has a service that is renowned worldwide for its warm, kind kiwi hospitality

Renowned? When was the last time you flew NZ?

Quoting Flyer88 (Reply 12):
NZ does have a product that can better QF, SQ or CX

Better than QF?
Better than SQ?
Better than CX?

Is that the reason that they are pulling Taipei-AKL, Los Angeles-CHC?
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Simpilicity
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Actually to the contrary, NZ has a service that is renowned worldwide for its warm, kind kiwi hospitality

Renowned? When was the last time you flew NZ?

NZ flight attendants are good at looking after ... NZ flight attendants. Hell they are a government airline. Tell me one government run enterprise in the whole world that runs well & efficiently? There isn't one. NZ should have been left to market forces & gone broke, rather than receive a masive govt. bailout.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Los Angeles-CHC?

LAX is being downgraded to seasonally because there isn't enough pax between the two destinations.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Is that the reason that they are pulling Taipei-AKL

From what I believe TPE being dropped has something to do in getting rights to fly AKL-PVG.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Better than QF?

Absolutely!

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Better than SQ?
Better than CX?

In some regards yes, in some no. NZ's service levels are not as good as that of CX and SQ because NZ supplies something like 4 less crew on their 747's compared to SQ/CX. However NZ's seats/avod/seat pitch e.t.c are excellent.
 
koruman
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:25 am

NZ's new seats, seating pitch and seatback AVOD are far superior to Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific and Qantas, there is just no comparison at all.

Virgin matches the Business class offering, and possibly South African surpasses it.

Taipei was dropped to obtain Shanghai rights, and CHC-LAX proved to be too low yield to be worthwhile.

I would like to see direct Australia-USA flights, and the 777-200LR would be a good purchase for this.

You could easily have a 777-200LR flying PER-SYD-LAX and a 787 flying MEL-BNE-LAX, and MEL and PER passengers would still be better served than transiting through AKL.
 
nzrich
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 26):
NZ flight attendants are good at looking after ... NZ flight attendants. Hell they are a government airline. Tell me one government run enterprise in the whole world that runs well & efficiently? There isn't one. NZ should have been left to market forces & gone broke, rather than receive a masive govt. bailout.

Do you think the Australian Government would of let QF go under i dont think so !!!! When a country relies on 1 airline for between 40-50% of all tourists bringing in the much needed tourist $$$$ it is never going to happen ...NZ and QF are far too important to both countries to let them fall over .The only reason the Aussie government let AN go down was it was only a domestic carrier with a few internationals now if it had been QF i would put money on them bailing QF out ..As for the government running NZ is not its run as a private company its just our major shareholder is the NZ public !!!! As for running effiently a airline that nearly went broke owing over a billion dollars to one that now makes profits when many airlines around the world cant , must be run well in my own opinion !!!

As for service well every airline has its share of rotten eggs ..Just look at the averages over the years and Air NZ service is always up there with the best and thats voted by the public ..If we were that bad our planes wouldnt be full..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:15 am

I cannot see NZ doing SYD LAX anytime soon.There is just isn't the internal feeder service ie:Star to justify reintroduction.Besides I think NZ is concentrating on its second London service (hopefully via SFO to capture the Aussie market also).

I have flown NZ numerous timesover the last few years and have not noticed a decline in service. Though I really thought the service was going down the drain in the late 80s. In many respects I prefer the NZ style of service to that of SQ. Just a personal view though...
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Simpilicity
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 29):
Do you think the Australian Government would of let QF go under i dont think so

When QF goes broke in a few years time, the void will be filled very quickly by efficient airlines.
 
TG992
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:59 am

Can I just put to bed the rumour that TPE was dropped due to gain PVG rights. This is inaccurate. TPE was dropped due to being unprofitable.

767ER makes a very good point regarding our service style - you're always going to get people who prefer the SQ style of subservient service, and also people who prefer our more casual, laidback style.
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Is that the reason that they are pulling Taipei-AKL, Los Angeles-CHC?

As TG992 said, Taipei, and also CHC/LAX were unprofitable. Thats what good managers do isn't it, identify moneymaking routes from loss making routes?

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 26):
NZ should have been left to market forces & gone broke, rather than receive a masive govt. bailout.

Hey mate, this thread is about whether NZ will return to the LAX/SYD run, not a place for you to drag up ancient history with AN etc, as you seem to like doing, and whether we should have been left to go bust. Get over it.

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nzrich
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:49 am

As for Syd-Lax returning i would love to see it ,but somehow doubt it will be the first routes NZ will be looking at somehow !!!! I believe there would be much more profitable rotes out there for NZ to utilise its a/c on ...
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 23):
that might be an oxomoron, Kiwi really smart

I'm not going to bite on this. If this is the basis of your arguments, then I don't think that any of us should be taking them seriously.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 26):
Hell they are a government airline. Tell me one government run enterprise in the whole world that runs well & efficiently?

I hate to break this to you, but NZ isn't run by the government. The government is the majority shareholder, but unlike the old days pre-privatisation, the airline is not being run by the Minister of Finance, it is being run by a board of directors. Given the fact that the airline is making money, I'd say they aren't doing too bad a job (even though I am, like many others, very concerned by the move to offshore maintenance and other functions). You continual charge that NZ (or QF for that matter) is a government run department is simply false, and I'd suggest that you would be well served to educate yourself on the facts before making such sweeping statements.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 31):
When QF goes broke in a few years time, the void will be filled very quickly by efficient airlines.

QF broke in a few years? What is your basis for that assertion? I think if you ask Qantas staff (or maybe JetStar staff...), you'd find that the airline is putting quite a keen emphasis on emloyee efficiency and productivity.

Anyway, back on the real subject of this thread, I doubt we will see a return of NZ to the SYD-LAX route. In addition to the reasons outlined above, there will soon Air Canada and a Virgin Blue spin off operating on the route. Air Canada's new premium product is another licensing of Virgin's Upper Class Suite, so NZ's premium product would not be unique to the route. One would expect that the DJ off-shoot would get a better feed of between the SYD-LAX route and domestic routes than a stand-alone NZ operation. Instead of spending 2 aircraft on a daily SYD-LAX operation, I believe NZ would be better served using that capacity to open new routes, particularly in the Asian region.

V/F
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Quoting Flyer88 (Reply 12):
Actually to the contrary, NZ has a service that is renowned worldwide for its warm, kind kiwi hospitality

Renowned? When was the last time you flew NZ?

Last time for me was a few months ago, when was the last time for you?

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Quoting Flyer88 (Reply 12):
NZ does have a product that can better QF, SQ or CX

Better than QF?
Better than SQ?
Better than CX?

In terms of seat pitch, IFE, new cabins, friendly FAs then yes NZ does. Oh yea, what about NZ winning best business class award last year (just refer to my signature for a selection of some of the best awards NZ have won over the years)

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 25):
Is that the reason that they are pulling Taipei-AKL, Los Angeles-CHC?

If you do your research then you will discover that NZ are dropping/reducing flights due to not enough demand to warrent those flights

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 26):
NZ flight attendants are good at looking after ... NZ flight attendants. Hell they are a government airline. Tell me one government run enterprise in the whole world that runs well & efficiently?

Tell me what has the Government got to do with how the FAs act? Incase you obviously havn't done your research then you discover that the Government are a back bench share holder who have no control over how NZ is run. NZ FAs are knowen for their friendlyness and showing the real Kiwi spirit and not for being grumpy 24/7, running around like headless chickens and acting like the sun shines out their behind, unlike other airlines FAs

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 26):
NZ should have been left to market forces & gone broke, rather than receive a masive govt. bailout.

Why don't you get off your high horse (or the drugs your on....which seems to be 24/7) and stop being so arrogant.
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767er
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:28 am

While i am by no means a QF fan, the notion that it will go broke is just absurd........and please do not dredge up AN again. Its just too boring for words.

As VirginFlyer rightly pointed out with AC flying LAX SYD with a premuim J product - dunno about the service - there is little point in NZ reintroducing SYD LAX. It will certainly give UA a run for their money.

There's another word I would like to add to NZ style of service besides laid back and friendly it's: consistency. Consistently good IMHO

Cheers
BTW...NZ1 ....glad to hear your job prospects look a lot brighter at the moment!
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
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NZ1
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting 767ER (Reply 37):
BTW...NZ1 ....glad to hear your job prospects look a lot brighter at the moment!

Many thanks
NZ1
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NZ1
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dj738
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:59 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 36):
NZ FAs are knowen for their friendlyness and showing the real Kiwi spirit and not for being grumpy 24/7, running around like headless chickens and acting like the sun shines out their behind, unlike other airlines FAs

A company's people are the one aspect of their "service product" that to a large degree cannot be controlled, in the same way that actual items such as seat pitch, food, facilities etc can be.

As with any company that hires as many staff / cabin crew as NZ does, you WILL find some crew who meet the description listed above to a T. And of course, you will find many who don't.

I therefore, when comparing service products between two or more airlines, like to stay away from saying one's cabin crew are friendlier than the other's, and simply focus on the facilities offered which means any argument is fair, consistent, and weighted.
 
QANTASpower
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:43 pm

Whats all this crap about NZ being better than SQ, CX and QF ... give me a break.

We simply had an airline which dragged the chain on upgrading their product for far too long and now all the NZ fans are saying wow look at us we have seat back videos.

QF will soon roll out their new product with the A380 ... trust me that will wipe the smile off your faces!
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:03 pm

Well...I hope ANZ will have amentity kits in economy class. I cant fly without amentity kits and also PTVs with AVODs.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
TG992
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 41):
I cant fly without amentity kits

Ever consider (gasp) buying your own eyemask, travel toothbrush, comb, and moisturiser? It should cost you under 10 bucks, and then you'd be able to fly again  Yeah sure
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TG992
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:17 pm

Quoting QANTASpower (Reply 40):
Whats all this crap about NZ being better than SQ, CX and QF ... give me a break.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the NZ product on the 777 and 74R aircraft is, quite simply, better than SQ, CX, and QF. This was even admitted by the CEO of SQ at the recent Star Alliance meeting of CEOs - his exact words "Now you have the world's leading product and I'm jealous!".

Quoting QANTASpower (Reply 40):

QF will soon roll out their new product with the A380 ... trust me that will wipe the smile off your faces!

Honey, I'm glad you're so passionate about your national carrier, but the cyclical nature of airline products means that yes, the QF A380 will undoubtedly match or surpass NZ's product - if it doesn't, QF management should all be fired for negligence. But then, no doubt, NZ will respond to that, QF will respond to NZ's response, and so on and so on. But AT THE MOMENT, NZ is leading the pack in terms of inflight product.
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aircanada014
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:24 pm

Since AC will be doing the SYD-LAX-YYZ, AC will be working with UA, US and NZ to allow them codeshare on AC's flight. This will give NZ a breather meaning they can deploy their a/c somewhere else. Who knows maybe SQ will codeshare on AC's flight from SYD-LAX portion.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 45):
Who knows maybe SQ will codeshare on AC's flight from SYD-LAX portion.

Don't u think AC should be on the route ASAP meaning over busy DEC-JAN period? Surely they can find an aircraft before then. They could talk to their Star Alliance partners at SQ for instance ???
 
nzrich
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 45):
Don't u think AC should be on the route ASAP meaning over busy DEC-JAN period? Surely they can find an aircraft before then. They could talk to their Star Alliance partners at SQ for instance ???

Do you honestly believe airlines these days have aircraft parked just in case they want to start another route or hire out to others if they need one !!!!! Airlines these days keep the planes flying as a plane on the ground costs $$$..As for taking the time ,maybe they want to take time and see what plays out a bit more, especially with the prospect of a budget carrier possibly flying the route !!!

As for all this stuff about an airlines staff being friendly or not .. I say look at how the public vote ie skytrax awards and how many awards each airline gets and thats the way to gauge the service on board ... In that respect Air NZ does very well and would be hard pressed to be bettered for consistency over the years in this region ..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
antskip
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting TG992 (Reply 43):
"Now you have the world's leading product and I'm jealous!"

The guy obviously has no idea! I can't speak of SQ, but he can't have travelled on an EK A345. I travelled the Tasman economy only a few weeks ago by NZ 772ER one way and EK 345 the other, and there is no question to me that EK economy at least is a class above NZ's as a product. There is no contest given the outstanding combination of EK's awesome ICE for entertainment and delicious meals. But then NZ were significantly cheaper (though I personally would have been happier to pay more for a good meal rather than the snack in a cardboard box they served up). Both airlines had very fine flight attendant crews. You can't blame the crew for the food or entertainment systems.
 
koruman
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:25 pm

Qantaspower makes me laugh with his disdain for NZ's product and his blind faith that Qantas' A380 will change the world!

A few aircraft will have a new product, which involves an inferior (to Air NZ) seating pitch in every class, although Business and First class will probably have communal areas.

But the vast bulk of the Qantas international fleet will still be lumbered with the obsolete Skybed in Business Class, which isn't even horizontal, yet is still being installed, as well as outdated Economy AVOD and a 30-32 inch pitch in Economy.

Meanwhile Air NZ has world-beating AVOD in all classes, genuinely flat and horizontal Business Class beds, 34 inch pitch in Economy Class AND 40 inch pitch in Premium Economy.

Simpilicity (aka The Member for Brisbane) and QANTASpower may mock. But Air NZ was always profitable (it was Ansett which wasn't, and NZ only bought it when Laurie Brereton reneged on letting Air NZ fly domestically in Australia in late'94).

Let's see what happens next.

And BTW, there is one reason why NZ might do better than AC on LAX-SYD. A quarter of Air NZ's frequent flyer members reside in Australia, and there are more than ten times as many of them as AC Aeroplan members in Australia.
 
aircanada014
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RE: NZ To Return To SYD-LAX?

Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 48):
And BTW, there is one reason why NZ might do better than AC on LAX-SYD. A quarter of Air NZ's frequent flyer members reside in Australia, and there are more than ten times as many of them as AC Aeroplan members in Australia

That doesn't matter how many ff members u have, they are all within Star Alliance so maybe some NZ ff members in Australia might want to fly with AC and earn FF from NZ program, have you thought about that?. Hey I'm a member of AC ff but I could decide to fly on US or UA to the states instead of AC if I want to and still earn points. Its a win, win situation for both airlines AC and NZ along with UA. So if AC has small portions in Australia and NZ have bigger portion it doesn't matter, NZ passenger can get points on AC flights too, not just on NZ.