Aircellist
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Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:33 am

In the topic about the rumour: Af studying A340E, Whitehatter said:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 22):
Airbus is quite fluid in its operation, and floats all kinds of projects before they become set in stone.

That reminds me of a "project" I saw in an old Air Transport World magazine. It was in the mid-eighties, and I no longer have it ( Sad )...

The project was named A3XX, I think, and it was mentioned as one of those ideas Airbus people would come up with at the end of long meetings: a twin-aisle narrowbody jet, and there was a sketch of a plane with single seats following each other through the length of the cabin, with aisles on both sides. The argument was that nobody would ever have to choose again between aisle and window seat, and that there would be very little, if any, jamming of the aisles.

The writer of ATW concluded by saying that this project, if it ever, would come after the A320 (which was yet to fly), A330, A340 and many other numbers...

Anybody has that old drawing, somewhere? Or, how about sharing other funny plans from other manufacturers?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
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breiz
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Aircellist (Thread starter):
The project was named A3XX,

May I remind you that A3XX was the code name of the A380 before it became A380?

Quoting Aircellist (Thread starter):
a plane with single seats following each other through the length of the cabin, with aisles on both sides.

I do not recall that design which is very un-economical as the plane is mainly transporting aisles, not passengers. Are you sure of your recollection?
One think for sure is that Airbus pioneered the idea that no passenger would seat more than a seat away from an aisle, hence the 2+3+2 configuration.
 
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zeke
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 1):
2+3+2

2-4-2 ?
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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breiz
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 2):
2-4-2 ?

Of course! Thanks Zeke.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Aircellist (Thread starter):
and there was a sketch of a plane with single seats following each other through the length of the cabin, with aisles on both sides. The argument was that nobody would ever have to choose again between aisle and window seat, and that there would be very little, if any, jamming of the aisles.

I do recall that sketch, but I also recall it being a possible layout for the upcoming A320 - the thought being that, since the cabin cross-section of the A320 was a little wider, some airlines might choose to configure the aircraft in a 2-1-2 layout, with twin aisles to speed boarding and deplaning.

It would seem the reduction in capacity would've done more to speed the process, however.
 
RedDragon
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 1):
One think for sure is that Airbus pioneered the idea that no passenger would seat more than a seat away from an aisle, hence the 2+3+2 configuration.

An ironic slip? Been dreaming about Boeings again?  Smile
 
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:39 am

Breiz, I know that A3XX is the name of the A380 project. I may be wrong about the project name of that old thing.

This sketch was obviously a joke from Airbus, reproduced in the last pages of an ATW magazine, probably in 1982 to 1984; around the time when the MD80 was advertised as "Fashion in flight from Long Beach". I was in High school, then, and moved quite a few times since, somewhere having to abandon many old magazines.

Lawn dart, I think I've seen the sketch you are talking about, but it was not the same.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
lehpron
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 6):
This sketch was obviously a joke from Airbus

All companies consider* all possible ideas before they come to a concept and then refine it to a final product -- there are not jokes. Unless that was your opinion, next time say so! Thhere are people coming into this forum that are not even aware 787 used to go by 7E7 -- could those older concepts be jokes too?  irked 




* Just like when Airbus considers an A380 stretch doesn't meant it will happen, it could be an obvious joke to someone in the future.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:36 pm

I really am sorry that I've lost the magazine, but here, Lehpron, imagine two aisles and one row of seats, but not one row across, one row lengthwise...

If that ever was serious, then, I admit I do not understand anything at aviation, nor at humour.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
lehpron
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 8):
I really am sorry that I've lost the magazine, but here, Lehpron, imagine two aisles and one row of seats, but not one row across, one row lengthwise...

If that ever was serious, then, I admit I do not understand anything at aviation, nor at humour.

I'm sorry if it appeared I went all postal on you. Nothing really to do with aviation, just in engineering, we do not drop ideas right off the bat. They are researched and either accepted or rejected. The methods of deciding what goes and what stays are cost and benefit analysis. Things looking right or cool are last in engineering, btw, along with politics. Big grin
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
Aircellist
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 9):
Things looking right or cool are last in engineering, btw, along with politics. 

If you ever drop in Montréal, I would be glad to share a coffee.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
EridanMan
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RE: Funny Old A3XX Project (mid-'80s)

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:24 am

(disclaimer, my engineering degree has nothing to do with airplanes Wink)

As far as I understand, there is actually _some_ merit to the idea of 2-2-2 seating in a narrowbody...

The biggest use of this type of plane that I could imagine would be for airlines who value turn-around-time above all else... two ailes for the same number of seats means a _substantial_ embark/debark savings for the aircraft... (Good for both effeciancy and passenger comfort).

There is always the efficiancy issue regarding the wider fuselage cross section, but there are engineering methods around that... why not just "squash" the fuselage a bit, make it 14" wider than it is tall- you get the same frontal area, same drag, but a more useful distribution of space within the plane... Kind of like Embraer did with their 'double-bubble' on the E190.. As a plus- the extra width would probably give the impression of extra space, adding to the passenger comfort...

I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea...

I say again - I don't know what I'm talking about... but on the surface, it doesn't seem like _that_ bad of an idea...

Proceed to tell my why I'm wrong, please Wink