tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

[KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:17 pm

Today I read an article in a management magazine about the all business class jet fligts of KLM. In the article it was mentioned that the 6x weekly BBJ service between AMS and IAH is a huge success. The flights have an average load factor well above 90%. Privatair operates the flight on behalf of KLM.

From the article it can be concluded that KLM is very happy with the performance on the AMS-IAH sector. Furthermore KLM is interested/studying the possibility to offer all business class jet service on the following destinations from AMS:
Dubai
Detroit
New York
These destinations are already offered by KLM or NWA from AMS. A whole new city pair is another possibility, although no likely new city pair was mentioned in the article. How likely would Rotterdam - New York be?

Great news the BBJ flights of KLM to IAH are performing so well. Does anyone have more information on KLM's plans with BBJ sercive? On what term would future BBJ destinations be announced? Will future flights be operated by Privatair or will KLM acquire its own fleet of business jets?
 
B742
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:28 pm

Good to see KLM doing well with the BBJ's

Quoting Tripple7 (Thread starter):
Dubai

If this was introduced, would DXB or a similar example widebody flights be decreased, or will the BBJ's operate with the other flights?

Would KLM ever start BBJ flights without Privitair (so create their own business class carrier)? (Similar to AF)

Rob!  wave 
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting Tripple7 (Thread starter):
How likely would Rotterdam - New York be?

It has been discussed numerous times and would be to Newark. Continental Airlines, was rumored to want the route a year or so ago.

Quoting Tripple7 (Thread starter):
Detroit

Detroit, would be the most foolish move on the end of Air France/KLM. The local economy could not support a all Business flight. In addition the airline on the connecting end, NW, is in the perils of its life..
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
keesje
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting Tripple7 (Thread starter):
Detroit

KLM - privat Houston flight is the cheapest way to double WBC capacity and frequency at the same time.

Detroit has 3-4 daily flights so less likely IMO

Newark and Chicago were names I heard.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Joost
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Would KLM ever start BBJ flights without Privitair (so create their own business class carrier)? (Similar to AF)

Right from the start, it has been rumoured that KL would eventually want to start the flights on their own metal, and that the Privatair cooperation was very good as a low-risk test case. I never heard Detroit said, but I heard about ORD.

But it has been said right from the start the KL would be interested in operating let's say 4 BBJs in its own. Would not be a strange choice, considering their fairly large 738/739 fleet.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 2):
It has been discussed numerous times and would be to Newark. Continental Airlines, was rumored to want the route a year or so ago.

It's indeed very strange that the route didn't start. Directors of Rotterdam Airport said around 3 companies were interested, but could not offer them goo slots.

I don't see why they can not start it now. Transavia reduced flights drastically from RTM (they dropped OSL, NYO, CPH, SXF and they will also stop DUB, and the moment AB will start AMS-FCO HV will also switch to AMS-FCO) so there must be plenty of slots available.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 2):
Detroit, would be the most foolish move on the end of Air France/KLM. The local economy could not support a all Business flight.

That's right, but it can be good for connections, though. They now fly 4-5 333s a day, all having 40 or so business seats up front. Replacing one A333 by a BBJ cuts in low-yielding pax, but still offers the 5-daily connection opportunity for business travelers.

I also think that KLM is a bit more informed about the financial situation and prospects of NWA than most of the people here including myself. KLM has rescued NWA before.
 
tripple7
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 2):

Detroit, would be the most foolish move on the end of Air France/KLM. The local economy could not support a all Business flight. In addition the airline on the connecting end, NW, is in the perils of its life..

For me Detroit does not seem the most likely destination for an all business class flight as well. However, the article clearly states Detroit is on the list of destinations investigated for all business class flights. For connections it is a perfect route.

Note that many business pax to and from Houston connect in Amsterdam to an "oil" destination, like the Middle East, Norway, Scotland, Kazachstan. This implies, all business class flights can play an important role in a hub and spoke system with connecting pax.
 
drerx7
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 4):
But it has been said right from the start the KL would be interested in operating let's say 4 BBJs in its own. Would not be a strange choice, considering their fairly large 738/739 fleet.

Can 738s be converted to BBJ2s or some type of range extension with extra fuel tanks? Or would KLM order new build BBJs?
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
tripple7
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
If this was introduced, would DXB or a similar example widebody flights be decreased, or will the BBJ's operate with the other flights?

KLM will go double daily 777 to DXB in the summer schedule. I could imagine one of the daily flights would be axed in favor of an all business class flight.

In the case of IAH, KLM offerd daily 747 and 3x weekly 767 service. When the all business class flight was initiaded the 767 service was scrapped. KLM now serves IAH with daily 747 and 6 weekly BBJ service. In addition CO serves IAH-AMS with a daily 764.
 
lijnden
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:07 am

Good to hear that the BBJ flights to IAH are a success! Also LH is having success with the BBJ flights. I think DXB would be another great destination for BBJ service for both KLM and LH. Other cities that might be interesting for KLM are JNB and NYC. How will BA and AF answer this? Before they had Concorde, now they have... nothing!

One thing I hope for is that KLM will convert some of its own planes (MD-11, A330 or B767/B777) to an all business configuration.
Be kind to animals! Next trip: ORF-ORD-NRT-IAH-ORF
 
Cadet57
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:10 am

SOT, but what is the cost of one of these flights? Just wondering.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
RAFVC10
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Would KLM ever start BBJ flights without Privitair (so create their own business class carrier)? (Similar to AF)

You talking about the "Dedicate" Business Class, no? Did AF dropped the TAS route? Why?
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Would KLM ever start BBJ flights without Privatair (so create their own business class carrier)?

Next step would be a dry lease. The KL pilots are already talking about it  Cool
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
JRadier
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 8):
Also LH is having success with the BBJ flights.

funny, as they don't even have BBJ's (anymore, now operating with ACJ's  Wink )
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
flyer737
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RE: [KLM] To Offer More BBJ Flights?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 12):
funny, as they don't even have BBJ's (anymore, now operating with ACJ's )

Yes they do.... 6 Weekly MUC-EWR