bolu340
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Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:44 am

LH will announce a big long range order in March which will affect as well A300600 Fleet.

Lets wait and expect big surprises!!

Best Regards
 
nirvarma
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
LH will announce a big long range order in March which will affect as well A300600 Fleet.

Interesting, where may I ask did you hear this? Could you provide a source please.

TIA
NV
 
bolu340
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:15 am

Hi Nirvarma!

It´s a reliable LH internal source.

Best Regards
 
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Stitch
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:32 am

Well the A340-600HGW will be a given over the 777, if they are looking at that category.

This might also be the first passenger order for the 747-8I, since their A380s and A346s will probably not be appropriate for all existing 747 markets.

In the medium-sized widebody market, I'm guessing the A350 has the inside track due to LH's fleet of A330s and A340s. The A350-800 would make a good A340-300 replacement and the A350-900 would offer some growth room to markets not strong enough for an A340-600.

Not sure what they will do with the A300-600. I would guess more A321s? Don't think the 787-3 will be in the cards, but one never knows, I guess...

[Edited 2006-02-28 01:41:21]
 
AF-A319
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In Mar

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:33 am

I think this topic was discussed before. Basically, Lufthansa wants to select replacements for its A340-300s and 737-300s.

According to an article in the 20dec05 edition of FI:

-The widebody evaluation will basically be a A350 vs 787 competition.
-Despite having ordered 15 A380s, the 747-8 will be considered as well.

The article did not say anything about the 737-300s but I guess some new A32S could be easily added to the fleet.

Reminder:

-LH currently operates 33 733s, 29 735s and 29 A343s
-About the A340-300s at LH: the first one (D-AIGA) joined the fleet in 1993 and now has more than 57,000 flying hours - the last one (D-AIFF) was accepted in 2001 and approaches its 21,000th hour)

Edited: typo

[Edited 2006-02-28 01:35:48]
 
Tifoso
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
Lets wait and expect big surprises!!

Surprises? I don't see any. It's going to be Airbus all the way  Smile

I'm not too sure about the 748 either, after the CEO announced recently that they are going to order more A380s.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
The A350-800 would make a good A340-300 replacement and the A350-900 would offer some growth room to markets not strong enough for an A340-600.

Aaaaaaaand you say this based on what?

The A350-8 is a direct compitition to the 787-9, and hence, it is an ideal 767/A300/A330-200 replacement. Not an A340-300 or A330-300 replacement, which would then be the territory of the A350-9.

787-8 210-250 Boeing
787-9 250-290 Boeing
787-10X 290+

A350-8 253 Airbus
A350-9 300 Airbus
 
atmx2000
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 6):
The A350-8 is a direct compitition to the 787-9

Can we please not mix Airbus and Boeing numbering schemes.
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Emirates Skies
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:56 am

I see this one going for Airbus rather than Boeing for the reason that LH seem to be going for an all-Airbus fleet.

Slightly off-topic, but do you think that Condor may need to replace its B767s in the medium-term?

Do you think that Condor might take up some of Lufthansa's A330s to replace the B767s when a replacement is due? Or do you think that Condor may be up to something completely different to that? Thx.
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centrair
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:09 am

Wouldn't the 787-3 be a good replacement for LH's A300s? They currently use them on shorter routes. A 787-8/9 or A350-800/900 would be too much of an airplane for those shorter routes, wouldn't they? Why would you have a plane that can fly half-way around the world fly 3 hour flights? The 787-3 isn't perfect but is closer to the A300's capabilities.

A300
Seating: 266
Range: 4,050 (4,150) nm (7,500 (7,700) km.)

787-3
Seating: 290 to 330 passengers
Range: 3,000 to 3,500 nautical miles (5,550 to 6,500 km)

There really isn't a good replacement for the A300. It seems airlines either need to add frequency with a smaller aircraft of go much bigger.

I am excited for March.
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columba
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In Mar

Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:49 pm

I don´t believe that we will see the long range order in March, I really hope so that we do but honestly don�t believe it will be so soon.

I believe that we see a split order between Airbus and Boeing. Likely Airbus will get the bigger share but that must not be case.
Mayrhuber announced a few days ago that they are looking into to buy more A380 maybe that means no 747-8 but 787s.
I really hope for a 747-8 order by LH because I am a huge 747 fan and as a German I have some affection towards Lufthansa and I simply can not imagine a Lufthansa without 747s and 737s.
Lufthansa is deeply connected with the 747:


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Sadly the long history of LH and the 737 will end in a few years  crying ,
as it is very unlikely that the 737-300s will be replaced with -700s
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PanHAM
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:20 pm

Two dates - the Annual Report press and analysts conference on March 23 and the AGM on May 17 are relevant. An announcement of the orders could be made on or before the press conference.

Ads to the A380 - LH has 15+5 on order with the first 15 spread oiut over 7 years until 2015. Even if they exercise the options for delivery before 2015 I do not see a need to re-order A380s this year and not before 2010.

Both the 747-8 and the 787 stand a good chance. If they replace the 30 744s with 747-8 that will be a sizable fleet and gove LH Cargo the option to order a smaller number as well.

The 787 in different versions can replace the A300 as well as the 340s and gives great flexibility for the future, plus lower fuel costs. Delievry slots are becoming scarce, LH has to make a decision this year and likely before the AGM.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In Mar

Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:24 pm

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 8):
I see this one going for Airbus rather than Boeing for the reason that LH seem to be going for an all-Airbus fleet.

I don't no alot about LH but I don't no why people think that just because they havn't ordered any Boeings for quite a while. Personally I don't think its true that they are going towards an all Airbus fleet at all.

I think LH have quite a big need for the 747-8 and maybe the 787 aswell. The 787 or A350 will be used to replace the A300's, and can also operate longhaul routes. The A380 will seat around 500ish in a 3 class configuration the 346 seats around what? 340 in a 2 class configuration, the 748 will fill the gap seating just over 400 in a 3 class configuration , plus they will still have some 744's for another 10-12 years yet and something needs to replace these eventually other than A380's or 346's IMO.
 
columba
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:03 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
I don ´t believe that we will see the long range order in March, I really hope so that we do but honestly don´ t believe it will be so soon.



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
Two dates - the Annual Report press and analysts conference on March 23 and the AGM on May 17 are relevant. An announcement of the orders could be made on or before the press conference.

Okay the Annual Report press and analysts conference on March 23rd can be the date where LH could make the announcement, totally forgot about that possibility.

I also agree with the rest of your post.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
N1120A
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:08 pm

Quoting AF-A319 (Reply 4):
The article did not say anything about the 737-300s but I guess some new A32S could be easily added to the fleet.

Lufthansa has stated time and time again that the 737 fleet is too large and too well suited for replacement in the short term. They are keeping both narrowbody fleets intact and no replacement will happen until the A320NG and 737NNG come out

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
Wouldn't the 787-3 be a good replacement for LH's A300s?

They would be the perfect replacement.
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columba
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:41 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
They are keeping both narrowbody fleets intact and no replacement will happen until the A320NG and 737NNG come out

As it seems Airbus and Boeing do not have the same plans as Lufthansa because both manufacturers are very reluctant to come up with a successor for their best selling products.
LH wants to replace the early A320 and 737s around 2010 maybe a little later.
If Airbus and Boeing will not launch a A320NG or 737NNG/797 anytime soon LH will have to buy new A319/A320/A321 or 737NGs as an interim solution.
Apart from LH only WN has demanded a 737 successor so it will be interesting to see which of the two manufacturers comes out first..........
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
windshear
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:19 pm

I have this hunch that they might go for Boeing, or a A and B mix...

Might go as Stitch says.

Boaz.
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dazeflight
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In Mar

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
They would be the perfect replacement.

Maybe the best available replacement, but hardly perfect...
 
kaitak
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:27 pm

I don't know about the large aircraft side of it - I'd imagine the A380 will be selected, but the 747-8 has superb economics. However, the fact that the A380 is already ordered and LH probably doesn't want to operate a new type unnecessarily should ensure a 380 order.

That said, if LH offers a very good deal on both the 787 and the 747-8, I think it would be in a stronger position.

My own view is that if they want a single type to cover all the medium sized aircraft missions, then the 787 is the best choice by far; the 350 is no doubt a fine long hauler, but the 787 can fulfill many more missions:

A300-600 replacement: 787-3 (or more likely, 8)
A340 787-9/10.

Don't forget that (a) the 787-10 is expected to be launched in March with an EK order, and (b) can you think of a better signal Boeing could send out to potential customers than the A350 being rejected in favour of the 787 by one of the world's largest (if not the largest?) Airbus operator. The psychological value of that to Boeing can't be understated.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:43 pm

I see A300's being replaced with A321's.

There is no room within Europe for a widebodied short haul flying fleet.

Only LH, BA and KL have intra-european widebodied flying of the majors. BA is reducing their European 767 and 757 fleet, KL now only has a daily 767 to heathrow.

The remaining european scheduled carriers operating long haul in europe (OA, CY) are in desperate straits anyway - with the exception of EI who have a daily 330 to AGP.
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Revelation
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 18):
I don't know about the large aircraft side of it - I'd imagine the A380 will be selected, but the 747-8 has superb economics. However, the fact that the A380 is already ordered and LH probably doesn't want to operate a new type unnecessarily should ensure a 380 order.

Let's see, the LH CEO says LH will be buying more A380s, and a Boeing rep says that they expect at least one passenger airline to order B747-8 this year. I think B needs an order from a prominent passenger airline badly, so I think the economics will be even better because B will sell at a very low price. B knows LH has a large 747 fleet, and knows if it gets a small order up front and the plane performs well, there probably will be follow-on orders. Also if LH goes to B747 it will make it easier for BA and CX to say yes. Of course, I have no idea what LH is thinking, and so am waiting for the very large a.net thread that will come after the LH announcement.
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NAV20
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:55 pm

I would think that, as with Qantas, 787 orders are a certainty. If it performs as advertised, no airline can afford to be without it; if it doesn't, they don't need to take delivery. And, given the size of the order book, anyone who DOESN'T order now won't get any for many years.

The 748 is also a possibility - Boeing will be offering very attractive deals to early purchasers of the passenger version. And I don't expect that all Lufthansa's longhaul routes require more than 400 seats.

Be interesting to see if they order any 777s. They may still be smarting at Richard Aboulafia's famous gibe - "It could be said that anyone without a 777 either is not a serious player, or is Lufthansa."  Smile
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7LBAC111
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting Bolu340 (Reply 2):
It´s a reliable LH internal source.

 sarcastic 
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
airways45
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:59 pm

It would make sense for Boeing to offer LH such a good deal on the 747 Advanced that they would be a fool not to take it... It would also give Boeing great PR since LH is also an A380 customer... If I was Boeing I would almost be giving 747-8 and 787s away to LH to keep Airbus away...

However, LH's A300 replacement shows there is no ideal replacement out there. The 787 and A350 have range that the A300 doesn't have. Why pay for range when you don't need it? Airbus decided a few years ago not to provide a replacement for the A300 / A310 line (short - medium haul high density aircraft). This was probably the correct decision, but it does leave LH with a problem - hence why their A300-600s are still flying.

Airways45
 
BestWestern
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
They may still be smarting at Richard Aboulafia's

Richard isn't biased or anything?  Smile

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
787 orders are a certainty

LH need to replace the A300, and I cant see then going 787 to do this considering the short haul nature of these routes. I cant see them starting to replace the 343 just yet, unless they want to create a subfleet at MUC.
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na
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:15 pm

While I would be surprised about an order so soon somehow I expect some Boeings to be ordered by LH this time. Because of two reasons:
A. Boeing has new products, and arguably somewhat better fitting ones as well (the 787 is a real novelty and the efficient 747-8I has no 1:1 competition and would plug a large gap in LHs fleet, opening when the first batch of 744s, thats half of LHs 30-strong 744 fleet, needs to be replaced after 2010, perfectly in line with the introduction date of the 747-8I).
2. Because of what Airways45 already said: Boeing will basically offer any price to keep LH on its client list, especially now that their own strict rules regarding bargaining (which is one of the most important reasons responsible for losing against Airbus in recent years) have been dropped last year. If Boeing loses this deal with Europe´s best-performing airline, they know there will be no deal in a long time. Well, on the other hand, Airbus also knows what it means when LH picks Boeings this time...
 
NAV20
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 23):
Why pay for range when you don't need it?

Airways45, BestWestern, the 788 and 789 (the 8,000nm. types) seem to be getting most of the publicity. But the 787 range also includes the 783, which is a medium-range high-capacity version - 290-330 passengers and a range of around 3,000nms. Very comparable to the A300.

[Edited 2006-02-28 14:22:20]
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Revelation
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
But the 787 range also includes the 783, which is a medium-range high-capacity version - 290-330 passengers and a range of around 3,000nms. Very comparable to the A300.

Others have argued that the 783 is too heavy to be considered a replacement to the A300, but the counter-argument is that there is no other modern plane closer to the A300 specifications than the 783, and no other one planned for at least the next 5+ years.
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PM
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 19):
There is no room within Europe for a widebodied short haul flying fleet.

Tell LH that. For the FRA-TXL shuttle alone they need bigger planes than the A321.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 19):
KL now only has a daily 767 to heathrow.

Shortly to be an A330.

If the long-haul order does happen (and these rumours have a habit of coming to nothing) then I wouldn't rule out further A330s. Did LH take options when they ordered ten? I seem to remember they have certainly talked about having a bigger fleet. If the A343 is an early candidate for replacement then more A333s could do at least some of those routes. This isn't to rule out A350s or 787s or 747s or even more A346s but another five or ten A333s would be a very simple, easy and short-term way of updating their long-haul fleet.
 
SQno1
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
Sadly the long history of LH and the 737 will end in a few years, as it is very unlikely that the 737-300s will be replaced with -700s

What about a EMB 175/190/195 order?

With Regards,
Alex.B
 
PanHAM
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 19):
I see A300's being replaced with A321's.

There is no room within Europe for a widebodied short haul flying fleet.

.

and not only TXL-FRA . There are a number of routes from FRA i.e. to LHR/MUC/HAM with multiple AB6 flights daily The extra space/capacity over the 321 is needed for airfreight as well, especially frokm FRA.
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klmcedric
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 20):
Be interesting to see if they order any 777s. They may still be smarting at Richard Aboulafia's famous gibe - "It could be said that anyone without a 777 either is not a serious player, or is Lufthansa."

IB,SA,SK,AC(for now),QF(for now),QR,NW,...

Kinda arrogant if you don't call these serious players, if you ask me!
 
Glom
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In Mar

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:25 pm

So the bookies are giving good odds on:
A330 for expansion
783 to replace A300
A346HGW because they already have loads
748I to replace 744
A388 because they said they would

But lets just have someone order something. Two months into the year and all we have are a few scattered A330 orders.

[Edited 2006-02-28 15:27:04]
 
mbj2000
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:54 pm

Do you imagine the shock if LH comes out with a totally different big bang?? A la AC?!
Let's see:
1st) throw away all 73x narrowbodies and replace them with a big bunch of brand-new A32s.
2nd) throw away all A33x/A34x/A300 & 747s and replace them with a mix of 78x/773s. For really high volume, the A380s could do the job.

Is this thinking really that crazy?  Smile
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drewfly
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:58 pm

It hasn't been mentioned here but I wouldn't be surprised if LH Cargo ordered some 777Fs. After all, they did want more MD-11Fs, and maybe Boeing is offering some attractive pricing to try and mend the fence over that debacle. Just a thought.
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Johnny
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:03 am

Hi Guys,

would be great to have a A350 / B787 Decision of one of the bluechips this year.

I heard, the decision will be published in September not in March.But for sure as i am waiting for it like lots of people i would appreciate an earlier announcement!

I simply have no idea. ( i had a lot, but i am not really sure anymore)

Maybe a mix of B748 and A346E on the left hand.And a mix of B787-8 and-9 for both Condor,Swiss and Lufthansa on the right hand ?!?

My personal wishlist has changed as well:

around 20 A350-800 to replace the A300 from LH and the B767 from Condor
around 30 A350-900 to replace the A343 from LH and later Swiss.
around 10 A340-600 E to replace the B744 Combi which could go to LH Cargo
around 20 748I´s to replace the B744´s
around 10 add A388

But let us wait and see.I will never stop hoping of B777 in LH Colours...


Johnny
 
NAV20
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
Others have argued that the 783 is too heavy to be considered a replacement to the A300, but the counter-argument is that there is no other modern plane closer to the A300 specifications than the 783, and no other one planned for at least the next 5+ years.

Agree with most of that, but puzzled by the weight point, Revelation? Boeing website gives MTOW of the 783 at 360,000lbs., A.net A/C Data gives the A306 at 366,000lbs.?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jacobin777
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 19):
I see A300's being replaced with A321's.

wont' fill their 4 daily A300's which they send to LHR....

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 23):
The 787 and A350 have range that the A300 doesn't have. Why pay for range when you don't need it?



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
Airways45, BestWestern, the 788 and 789 (the 8,000nm. types) seem to be getting most of the publicity. But the 787 range also includes the 783, which is a medium-range high-capacity version - 290-330 passengers and a range of around 3,000nms. Very comparable to the A300.

 checkmark 

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
If the long-haul order does happen (and these rumours have a habit of coming to nothing) then I wouldn't rule out further A330s.

would be interesting to see if they order the A330's, but I think the odds are stacked against it.........while QF had a hard time with their short-haul A330's, given KL's AMS-LHR A330 announcement (from A.net thread), it seems as if the A330's could do alright...

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 33):
Is this thinking really that crazy?

yes it is, but I do like the sound of it..... Smile
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BestWestern
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
For the FRA-TXL shuttle alone they need bigger planes than the A321

You brought up the example - let me disprove it! Only 25.4% of LH FRA TXL seat capacity is flown by A300 equipment. If all flights were operated by A321's rather than a mixture of 735's up to A300's - the total seat reduction per week would only be 324 - which is a 1.7% decline in capacity.

This route will function without the A300, and is a perfect 321 route. There is no need for LH to have a widebodied short haul fleet.
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Revelation
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 36):
Agree with most of that, but puzzled by the weight point, Revelation? Boeing website gives MTOW of the 783 at 360,000lbs., A.net A/C Data gives the A306 at 366,000lbs.?

I'm going by the data in reply 18 of this recent thread: RE: Airbus A300-800 Or How To Compete With The 783? (by AndesSMF Feb 24 2006 in Civil Aviation)
which says:

http://theaviationspecialist.com/787_family.gif

(OEW)
783 - 223,100 lb (101,197 kg)
788 - 239,200 lb (108,500 kg)
763 - 190,000 lb (86,000 kg)
A306 - 198,000 lb (90,000 kg) *approx*

Also look at reply 45.
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 38):
You brought up the example - let me disprove it!

Fair enough! I flew the route several times in the late 1990s and it was ALWAYS an A300 (or an A310) and it was ALWAYS full. I haven't checked recently but I'll take you word for it that they fly smaller planes nowadays.

Though I'm surprised...  Wink
 
mbj2000
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:46 am

Now I know what the announcement will be!!!
This is from a very reliable source inside LH.

No new orders BUT:
The whole long range fleet will have PTVs... by end of 2012... Big grin
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 19):
There is no room within Europe for a widebodied short haul flying fleet.

LH does 10-20 daily flight with A300/310 between 10 biggest domestic cities.
Interseting what these should be replaced with

IMO Airbus and Boeing have equal chances. LH will go for the best fit.

[Edited 2006-02-28 17:05:57]
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 41):
The whole long range fleet will have PTVs... by end of 2012..

In that case, it's time for a war between the cheerleaders of whichever two companies lead IFE.
 
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:04 am

Thanks for the reference, Revelation. Looks like the MTOWs are almost the same, the A306's OEW is 25,000lbs. less.

To my mind, the question is, how much of the difference is going to be fuel? As usual with Airbus products lately, the last thing you can find in the published data is the fuel tankage. But the 783 will only need 34,000USG max. for 3,000nms. plus. If the A306 needs only 4,000USG more for the same trip, there's the 25,000lbs..
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:24 am

Mix of both A & B is the best guess here.

Unless LH is to replace the A306 with new A306s...then the 783 is the best available replacement, taking into accoant all the A306 routes and loads.

I would agree, I see a 748 order brewing here.
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Ken777
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:47 am

This one will be an interesting A-v-B battle to follow.

I think that LH will go with some 748s as the 380 is not the perfect plane for all routes. They have a long history with the 747 line and I believe it will continue - especially now that B has pulled their head out on the marketing side.

The 787 line has a lot going for it and A will have to pull out all the stops to win with the 350. If B is moving towards a second production line for the 787 then A's job will be significantly harder.

The 737 line is the most in question. Lots of arguments for a full A lineup in the single aisle area, but (again) B has finally pulled their head out. I think the 737's opportunity lies in a package deal. Smaller odds, but LH does know how to operate a 737 fleet.

This is one that will be interesting to follow, especially if the announcement is for March, which starts tomorrow.
 
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 38):

You brought up the example - let me disprove it! Only 25.4% of LH FRA TXL seat capacity is flown by A300 equipment. If all flights were operated by A321's rather than a mixture of 735's up to A300's - the total seat reduction per week would only be 324 - which is a 1.7% decline in capacity.

This route will function without the A300, and is a perfect 321 route. There is no need for LH to have a widebodied short haul fleet.

The airlines name is Lufthansa and not Interflug. LH has to provide the seats when people want to fly and not when the average seat is provided by the 5 year plan based on the average number ofm people that fly the route. This part is for the yield management system and there are always enough people to fill the AB6 at a premium Y fare.

BTW, Of 15 daily flights FRA/TXL, 6 are AB6s, 7 are 321 and one each 320 and 733, at least Mo-Fr and they are full most of the time, that goes for the AB6 as well as for the 733s and the same for HAM or LHR as well.

.
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cityairline
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
The A350-800 would make a good A340-300 replacement and the A350-900 would offer some growth room to markets not strong enough for an A340-600.

Would it then be possible for a n/s to MNL without the stop in CAN, since China is growing now and LH maybe was thinking about giving CAN an own flight?
By the way, was LH planning som major expansion anyway?

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Stitch
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RE: Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March

Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 48):
Would it then be possible for a n/s to MNL without the stop in CAN, since China is growing now and LH maybe was thinking about giving CAN an own flight?

Great Circle Mappers says FRA-MNL is 6408nm at ETOPS-207, which I should think would be comfortably within the range of an A358 or A359 in LH's current two-cabin and three-cabin configs plus cargo.

Quote:
By the way, was LH planning som major expansion anyway?

Can't answer that one.  Smile