KarlB737
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Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:41 am

Courtesy: Associated Press

Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060228/northwest_pilots.html?.v=6
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy: Minneapolis Star Tribune

Deep Cuts Could Kill Mesaba, Unions Say

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/274638.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy: Detroit Free Press

Mesaba's Attendants Back Strikes

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...BUSINESS05/602280346/1018/BUSINESS

[Edited 2006-03-01 01:46:47]
 
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LTU932
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am

Now that this is authorised, they have to realise that if they go to strike, they will either lose their jobs, or they, along with management probably, will be greately responsible for NW and their chapter 7 filing. Management doing a sloppy job is one thing, but the pilots going to strike to further hurt the company they work for is also wrong.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:49 am

I guess they haven't learned anything from the (former) NW mechanics strike, last year?

Pilots, in the US are now a dime a dozen. There are lots of fully qualified pilots out there looking for cockpit jobs.

Of course, the NW Pilots union will pull out all the stops, like the mechanics did, saying they are not qualified, safety is in jeprody, etc., etc., etc.

Like the mechanics, they will never mention their replacement pilots will also hold an FAA Pilots License, including type certification. Yes, the replacement mechanics had FAA A&P licenses, but those who walked out on their jobs never mentioned that.......
 
joelfreak
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:51 am

And at what point do you allow people to say enough is enough, and we wont take it any more? If you keep going by your line of thought, they should be happy just to get paid $1 a year...never strike.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Of course, the NW Pilots union will pull out all the stops, like the mechanics did, saying they are not qualified, safety is in jeprody, etc., etc., etc.

Or they will make the lives of those replacements a living hell, like what happened when the mechanics striked. I recall that many of them were harrassed for a while, and it was pretty nasty from what I remember.
 
greasespot
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Pilots, in the US are now a dime a dozen. There are lots of fully qualified pilots out there looking for cockpit jobs.

 no  You cannot just take a pilot and drop them into the cockpit....There is a lot of training that is mandated.

Quoting Joelfreak (Reply 3):
And at what point do you allow people to say enough is enough, and we wont take it any more? If you keep going by your line of thought, they should be happy just to get paid $1 a year...never strike.

Hey didn't you know that we should be grateful that they allow us to work on their planes........

GS

Aviation soon to be staffed by all volunteer labour...
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
727EMflyer
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:04 am

If they actually did strike, something would end very quickly: either the strike itself or the airline. There hasn't been a lot of chatter about NW lining up replacement pilots in the manner they had the mechanics ready to go, and I believe there are a few more legal hurdles involved in getting new pilots to be able to drive around pax carrying birds than there are with getting new mech's to maintain them. So if they strike, either the airline will have to give in before flight ops cease or they simply won't be able to continue on.

Have we ever had an airline weather an actual ceasing of flight ops due to a strike while under bankruptcy protection? I tend to think the traveling public and, more importantly, the creditors wouldn't take too kindly to that double whammy.
 
hoosiercfi
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 5):
You cannot just take a pilot and drop them into the cockpit....There is a lot of training that is mandated.

My thoughts exactly. You need at least a month to go through training. Most programs are 8-12 weeks.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:05 am

My hunch:

Day 1:

Strike

Day 2:

Judge allows them to jettison all non-airbus aircraft

Day 3:

Judge allows them to jettison all union contracts

Day 4:

Airbus pilots that want a job and thought the company was bluffing start to go back to work, all others out in the cold (ALPA in a way plays both sides of the fence in this between mainline and regional).

Recovery would take time, but could shake out by summer. If not, then liquidation.
 
J32driver
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:09 am

Training a replacement pilot is at minimum a 6 week process. And thats if they can find anyone willing to take the job. I'd be willing to bet NW would find it almost impossible to put more than 10 or 15 airplanes into anything resembling scheduled service.

As far as how smart is it to destroy your company with a strike. At some point, you have to stand up for yourself and your profession and tell management you will work for no less than X amount. A strike is self defense, its not destroying the company because you are mad at them.
 
Ben330NWA
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Pilots, in the US are now a dime a dozen. There are lots of fully qualified pilots out there looking for cockpit jobs.

Of course, the NW Pilots union will pull out all the stops, like the mechanics did, saying they are not qualified, safety is in jeprody, etc., etc., etc.

While I am only part of the FA workforce, I believe that it's much harder for thousands of pilots to get certified with NWA so quickly. While mechanics and FAs can be replaced quite easily, I don't believe the pilots can be replaced all at once. There's much more training involved with a pilot and getting them rated for certain A/C and employed at a certain airline. I believe that ALPA holds the upper hand in this one. No qualified pilots to fly, means no airplane in the sky.

I believe that employees at my airline have given all they can. Many of you have stated, "well you can just pack up and leave." It's not that easy. I only had 6 years in (on furlough status) but it certainly wasn't easy having my life disrupted. Now think of someone who has 30 + years invested in the company. Many of them cannot retire as now they cannot afford to. While you can point fingers and say "your gonna ruin the airline, or your only hurting it more" you have to understand, like a wild animal protecting it's young, the employees are merely doing what they need to do to survive.
 
andessmf
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:10 am

Lets not misrepresent certain facts, there are some jobs that may be considered to be overpaid. I will refrain from commenting about fairness of paycuts w/o knowing how much they were paid before. I believe either GM of Ford had people mowing their lawn that were paid $70000 per year!!

If somebody can get the NW pilot pay scale it would be greatly appreciated. That way we can really compare and decide what to think.

My only hope is that this does not become another Eastern Airlines.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 5):
Recovery would take time, but could shake out by summer. If not, then liquidation.

Without the Narita equipment/traffic the airline is a lame duck!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
N908AW
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Like the mechanics, they will never mention their replacement pilots will also hold an FAA Pilots License, including type certification. Yes, the replacement mechanics had FAA A&P licenses, but those who walked out on their jobs never mentioned that.......

NW spent 18 months teaching mechanics to do a job that was being criticized all winter. How do you expect NW to teach 5,000 people how to fly the Dinosaurs, the Scarebii, the 757, and the widebodies that only a few other airlines use, in less than the month it'll take them to lose every last cent?
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
toltommy
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 8):
My hunch:

Day 1:

Strike

Day 2:

Judge allows them to jettison all non-airbus aircraft

Day 3:

Judge allows them to jettison all union contracts

Judge would have to issue a ruling which imposes a new contract first. Then the union can respond with a strike, which will probably generate a further ruling on legality of such strike. If it happens, I suspect an injunction ordering everyone back to work, awaiting the ruling from the US Supreme Court.
 
e7plnr
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:35 am

Why do people on this post continue to boast about replacement pilots......
NOT GOING TOO HAPPEN!!!!!!!

Northwest has stated that they don't have a plan to replace striking pilots. A strike authorization vote is just what the pilots must do to prove there solidarity.

The pilots and flight attendants will come to a resolution soon. Then NWA will be able to work on their other issues to push the company out of bankruptcy.

e7plnr
 
tinpusher007
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:41 am

I say they cut their losses and walk off the job. Look at what the company is imposing...F/A's at 12K a year...Avro Captains taking 66% pay cuts...enough IS enough. Its not worth it to stay!
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
toltommy
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting E7plnr (Reply 15):
Why do people on this post continue to boast about replacement pilots......
NOT GOING TOO HAPPEN!!!!!!!

2 reasons.... mostly because people think replacing a pilot from one aircraft to another is as simple as replacing a mechanic. They know nothing about training, training times, or type ratings. The other reason is that a lot of the armchair CEO's don't bother to read and learn from other posts, and only want to show their knowledge....
 
stirling
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:42 am

I read an article in one of the industry rags a couple of months ago that the demand for pilots is actually up a little...thanks in no small part to booming aviation markets in Europe and India.

Pilots are not a dime a dozen like they were say 3-4 years ago. They might be able to realize a 25% immediate replacement if a strike does occur, this number only increases as time goes by, but will it be fast enough? That is the question.

Bottom line is this, NW needs to figure out a way to first pay its pilots, then take care of its stockholders, in that order....with only one stream of revenue, and pilots being a big part of that, no pilots, no profits...so if that means NW needs to cut itself in half, or a quarter, or whatever, thats what needs to be done, cause it is painfully obvious that a NW as is, or as it was, will never be.
Some people, OK, a lot of people are going to lose their livelihoods, but I tend to think that's better than everyone going down.
What NW also needs is a leader, someone not afraid to communicate the hard issues with compassion, with credibility, and not spewing this crap that we need to pay our execs top dollar while front line employees are living on foodstamps and government assistance. Time to get creative, think outside the realm of conventional wisdom, quit chasing market share and strive for profitability for a change, maybe take a chance on fresh talent, tie compensation to performance...try something, anything, but know this important fact, more of the same, brings more of the same.

All in all, management has let the employees down, and that is the sad truth to this whole mess. No one wants to see it come to this, but what else have they got to lose? Hate to say it, even though this statement effects tens of thousands of people, it's best that NW go away. Liquidate. NW has some pretty good assetts, while not easily converted into cash, they have markets, markets that will need to be served by somebody, and that somebody will need employees to serve that market. Get the drift?
Don't despair, they will find jobs...maybe not all back in the industry, but jobs all the same, and isn't this what this is all about anyway? Making a living?

Some will find it time to re-evaluate their career path, suck it up, no one is guaranteed a thing, most people have 3 careers in their lives, why should airline employees be exempt, especially at a time when the whole industry, outside of a few carriers, is in such a state of disarray?

I know many of you will think this is the most heartless tripe you've ever heard. Fine. But just so you know, I've been downsized 3 times in my life, changed career paths twice. You know what, the first month is absolute hell, especially with 3 kids to feed and keep warm, but we all lived. And so will every NW employee.
Peace everyone.
Delete this User
 
toltommy
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 16):
I say they cut their losses and walk off the job. Look at what the company is imposing...F/A's at 12K a year...Avro Captains taking 66% pay cuts...enough IS enough. Its not worth it to stay!

sounds like you are confusing the Mesaba crews with NWA.... Avros are at Mesaba.
 
greasespot
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 17):
They know nothing about training, training times, or type ratings.

Plus SIM training, check rides, company procedures training, A/C differences training (1 A320 is not the same as whant they may have been flying elsewhere)


Oh and then if a person is going to be a captain he has to fly with a company captain on few check rides......Yeah they can just drop replacements into the cockpit tomorrow.


Unlike a maintenance endorsement which is good everywhere that training has to take place whether the pilot is type rated on the aircraft or not.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
AirWest
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:49 am

This doesn't really come as a surprise, and with a 92% vote in favor. I might be slightly angry and strike too if my employer said-

Well, we'll just cut your pay by 40%, and, while we're at it, we just might try to cut it even more, so we can pay you whatever we want. We would list the other "wonderful" things we've done for our employees, but that would take up too much space.

Sorry for the inconvience,
NWA Management
"And now I wish I was somewhere other than here"- JB
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:11 am

I'd say Mesaba has a better chance of going in the toilet than NW right now.
 
n917me
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:39 am

The Pilots will not strike.. an agreement will be reached at the last minute.... that is according to the crystal ball...
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 16):
I say they cut their losses and walk off the job. Look at what the company is imposing...F/A's at 12K a year...Avro Captains taking 66% pay cuts...enough IS enough. Its not worth it to stay!

What people need to realize is that NW is simply trying to get their payscale in line with their competitors. The DC-9 replacement aircraft pilot-pay is aparently being set around the same rate as the JetBlue E-190 pilots. The larger aircraft payrates are attempting to be negotiated around the same rate as what UA and US (the lowest in the industry) were imposed with during their bankruptcies.

You can call for a "lets take a stand right now", but if you really believed it, you would call for it in the vast majority of the aviation industry. Now that Newco and foriegn flight attendent outsourcing is off the table, NW management isn't really asking for anything more than what US, UA, Jetblue, etc have right now.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 6):
Have we ever had an airline weather an actual ceasing of flight ops due to a strike while under bankruptcy protection?

Yes, Continental. Lorenzo put CO into Ch.11, fired all of the employees and brought them back at lower wages.

This was a long time ago, and the laws have been changed, but in theory yes.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Indy
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:55 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 14):
If it happens, I suspect an injunction ordering everyone back to work, awaiting the ruling from the US Supreme Court.

Its debatable as to whether an injunction if issued would carry any weight since nobody in the U.S. can be forced to work. An injunction may be issued which would give NW grounds to terminate anyone that didn't return to work without fear of retribution. Plus those terminated would certainly lose any benefits including unemployment compensation.

Quoting N917ME (Reply 23):
The Pilots will not strike.. an agreement will be reached at the last minute.... that is according to the crystal ball...

My crystal ball says "buy imported beer now before the price increases"

:D
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MKEdude
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:40 pm

If the NW pilots decide to strike I would expect the president to order a 60-day cooling off period just like what happened with AA a few years back.

Quoting Indy (Reply 26):
My crystal ball says "buy imported beer now before the price increases"

My crystal ball says there is never a bad time to buy imported beer, or domestic beer for that matter. My crystal ball is pro-beer across the board.  bigthumbsup 
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:59 pm

Well, let's just see "management" put their $$ where their mouths are, and pony up 40-60% of THEIR salaries as a show of solidarity!!
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 27):
If the NW pilots decide to strike I would expect the president to order a 60-day cooling off period just like what happened with AA a few years back.

nope, that wont happen, this President is from Texas, who couldn't give a s@#t about NW. If it was AA, that would be a different matter.
 
goaliemn
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:46 pm

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 18):
Some people, OK, a lot of people are going to lose their livelihoods, but I tend to think that's better than everyone going down.

The unions won't buy that. That's what happened with AMFA. They didn't want any jobs eliminated, so they eliminated them all.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 28):
Well, let's just see "management" put their $$ where their mouths are, and pony up 40-60% of THEIR salaries as a show of solidarity!!

Everyone keeps saying this and seem to forget that the board of directors have taken significant cuts. Some as much as 40% over the last 2 years. non-union employees have also taken 10-30% cuts over the last 2 years as well, the first round was when the pilots took their first cut, and then again last December, as well as having pensions frozen, sick time eliminated, vacation time reduced, and they're looking at a new, cheeper health insurance plan.

Everyone is taking cuts.
 
Ben330NWA
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:02 pm

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 30):
Everyone keeps saying this and seem to forget that the board of directors have taken significant cuts. Some as much as 40% over the last 2 years.

Yeah but unlike contract employees who have taken cuts, management and the board of directors continue to receive cash bonuses.
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting N917ME (Reply 23):
The Pilots will not strike.. an agreement will be reached at the last minute.... that is according to the crystal ball...

When is the last minute? Wasnt it to be today at 10am, here in New York?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:36 am

All I can say is, If NWA pilots strike, it may keep DAL Pilots from striking, which in my world is a good thing.

Having endured lots of strikes in my past, I would not wish this on any part of an airline.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Jumpseat70 (Reply 33):
All I can say is, If NWA pilots strike, it may keep DAL Pilots from striking, which in my world is a good thing.

Having endured lots of strikes in my past, I would not wish this on any part of an airline.

Instead of Steenland trying for Newco.. Sense would tell him to go back to the routes of the income - NORTHWEST ORIENT!


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Seriously, best wishes to everyone at Northwest Airlines!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
thegooddoctor
Posts: 418
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:49 am

I agree with the crystal ball reports: I see lawmakers from Lansing and St. Paul raising objections to a NW strike, leading to a presidential intervention...

I guess I'm betting 200k frequent flier miles on NWA staying out of chapter 7...

S
The GoodDoctor
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 35):
I agree with the crystal ball reports: I see lawmakers from Lansing and St. Paul raising objections to a NW strike, leading to a presidential intervention...

Wasnt there a statement not to long ago that the President would not stop a strike if it were to happen?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
redneckslim
Posts: 91
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:53 am

As a 4 million miler on NWA, and a 40 year client as well, I'd be very happy to see this mismanaged and now pretty much useless airline just fold altogether. Getting screwed left and right over the past two years has left me totally put off. I hope they dissolve and others learn a lesson. These people have in the past 12 months left me standing at the gate for flights to NRT and BKK and always in business class confirmed! oversold and arriving late on a NWA connection! Plus, they stiffed a hotel in Tucson for a cool $1.000
000.00 (million) and got away with it. Greed and oppertunisium hiding behind fuel and other liget excuses ..... To airline history with these crooks. Let a fresh new player come on in and try to sooth the wonds so many of us have suffered over the past few years. The really worthy employees will never have a problem finding quick employment. The complaining old hags who bitch and whine about that the company has done to them, for the 10-12 hours I have to listen to it while in flight, should all find good lawyers and chropractors and retire.
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 37):
As a 4 million miler on NWA, and a 40 year client as well, I'd be very happy to see this mismanaged and now pretty much useless airline just fold altogether. Getting screwed left and right over the past two years has left me totally put off. I hope they dissolve and others learn a lesson. These people have in the past 12 months left me standing at the gate for flights to NRT and BKK and always in business class confirmed! oversold and arriving late on a NWA connection! Plus, they stiffed a hotel in Tucson for a cool $1.000
000.00 (million) and got away with it. Greed and oppertunisium hiding behind fuel and other liget excuses ..... To airline history with these crooks. Let a fresh new player come on in and try to sooth the wonds so many of us have suffered over the past few years. The really worthy employees will never have a problem finding quick employment. The complaining old hags who bitch and whine about that the company has done to them, for the 10-12 hours I have to listen to it while in flight, should all find good lawyers and chropractors and retire.

Ouch, but I do feel your pain!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
Hodges
Posts: 136
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:24 am

NWA is my only way of flying directly from my hometown of Ithaca, NY (ITH) to the the university I will be attending starting this summer, the University of North Dakota, which is located in Grand Forks, ND (GFK). If NWA goes under and no one comes to fill the void they leave at GFK then I'm basically screwed for when I want to go home for break.

I'm wishing Northwest the best. I love seeing their DC9s around, plus it was the first airline I ever flew on so I've got a bit of an emotional attachment to them. Besides, I want an airline to serve GFK that I can depend on being there. The nearest airports require a drive of at lest one hour and since I don't have a car, that means bumming a ride off of someone. Being able to fly from my local airport that's 20 minutes from my house, getting to go on three flights, some of which can be on DC9s, and arriving at GFK a short bus ride from my dorm, is of great value to me.

However, on the other hand, I am a student pilot and will be studying at UND to become a professional pilot. And for the future of the airline industry for pilots, I hope the NWA pilots will stand up for themselves and set a precedent that may help protect those pilots who follow in their footsteps.

I hope a compromise can be found, but I'm just not sure if that can happen.

By the way, who will fill NWA's void if they go belly-up? United? AA?

Erik
Beer, helping ugly people have sex since 1862.
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
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RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 35):
see lawmakers from Lansing and St. Paul raising objections to a NW strike, leading to a presidential intervention...



Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 36):
Wasnt there a statement not to long ago that the President would not stop a strike if it were to happen?

I am really doubtful of presidential intervention. The same time the MN (NW) guys want the president the intervene, the TX (AA) guys are doing the opposite. I don't think it makes a difference. Enron, WorldComm - just doesn't seem to be the type to be bothered with NW. NW liquidating would cause some pretty major travel disruptions, but not anything that would cause a threat to the economy or otherwise. Pretty much just an inconvenience to DTW and MSP. Then, UA and AA can fight over NW's routes.

Good luck NW. I had big doubts about US too. They have a long way to go, but I didn't think they would be anymore. I feel certain NW will work something out. The main thing is treating their employees better. Will they do it? Doubtful, in or out of bankruptcy, NW has never had a big employee fan base. Of course, this is hear-say, I do not work there. Just seems to be the consensus of some I have talked to.

M
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 24):
What people need to realize is that NW is simply trying to get their payscale in line with their competitors. The DC-9 replacement aircraft pilot-pay is aparently being set around the same rate as the JetBlue E-190 pilots. The larger aircraft payrates are attempting to be negotiated around the same rate as what UA and US (the lowest in the industry) were imposed with during their bankruptcies.

You can call for a "lets take a stand right now", but if you really believed it, you would call for it in the vast majority of the aviation industry. Now that Newco and foriegn flight attendent outsourcing is off the table, NW management isn't really asking for anything more than what US, UA, Jetblue, etc have right now.

This is pretty much the gist of it, and the rank-and-file know it. The vote was symbolic for the vast majority of the pilots, whether they themselves believe it or not. A strike is the end of Northwest. The contracts are going to be voided if an agreement isn't reached. Everyone is going to continue to bitch and moan because people love to bitch and moan, and NW is going to continue to fly.

And the LCCs with the happy employees are going to continue to gain market share because they meet the passengers' expectations promising no more or less than they deliver - frequent, reasonably-priced, safe transportation.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Hodges (Reply 39):
However, on the other hand, I am a student pilot and will be studying at UND to become a professional pilot. And for the future of the airline industry for pilots, I hope the NWA pilots will stand up for themselves and set a precedent that may help protect those pilots who follow in their footsteps.

As a future professional pilot, you need to hope that the U.S. airline industry can become financially viable or there won't be any jobs for you. Look at the likes of Southwest and AirTran as your future (or any other airline that gets their costs in line to effectively compete). If NW, and the others, don't get their costs in line with their profitable competitors (and that includes work rules), there won't be a job for you because there will be so many out-of-work pilots begging to start over at the bottom of the payscale of any airline.

Oh, and regardless of what happens to NW (which is probably nothing), you will always be able to get between Grand Forks and Ithaca, and I doubt it would be any more expensive then it is today.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:45 am

Perhaps the international crews are different from the domestic ones.... I flew to/from LGA domestically last weekend, and the service was all I could reasonably exepect. Great attitudes from the cabin crew!
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:48 am

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...es/legacy/northwest-2005022411.htm

This shows that a 12-year captain flying the 744 at NWA makes $177/hr.

12-year F/O on the 744 makes $120.

5-year Capt. on the 757 makes $135, on the A320- $130
5 year F/O on the 757: $84. A320: $80.

Thats an idea of how much it pays to work at NWA.

from the same website:

United Airlines (the only other airline with 744s in the US)

12 year Capt 744/777: $178
12 year F/O 744/777: $122

5-year Capt 757/767: $141
5-year F/O 757/767: $90

5-year F/O A320: $120
5 year F/O A320: $77

American Airlines

12 year Capt. 777: $196
12 year F/O 777: $133

5 year 757 capt: $ 158
5 year 757 F/O: $ 98

Well, AA's pay is currently the highest of the majors. The rest of the airlines are all topping out at about $180/ hr. So what I am trying to say, is that NWA's pay is already on par with most major airlines. These numbers reflect the interim agreement met back in November. They can bring the numbers down slightly and still be in "major" airline range, because looking at USAirways' pay, their A330 capts. top out at 160 per hour. So technically there is room. But 744 captains will not want to take those kinds of cuts, not when they fly the long routes they do (trans pac), whereas a US A330 pilot isnt going ot be flying anything longer than 8 hours, probably.

-AA777
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 19):
Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 16):
I say they cut their losses and walk off the job. Look at what the company is imposing...F/A's at 12K a year...Avro Captains taking 66% pay cuts...enough IS enough. Its not worth it to stay!

sounds like you are confusing the Mesaba crews with NWA.... Avros are at Mesaba.

You are absolutely right and I stand corrected.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
david31998
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:49 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:14 am

There are many divergent views about the future of Northwest. Considering their financial situation and the threat of a strike, what is the probability that NW will be flying this summer? I ask because I already have tickets to China!
 
ptharris
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:58 pm

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:17 am

It's funny between DL and NW, seems (and this is only from my perspective) NW seems to be the ones that bitch the most. Man, I hope they can hash this out, but NW has been turning "old" and not doing much with renewing itself. Most airlines try and keep with changing times, NW hasn't and chosen to keep with old airframes and just not really keeping in tune with what's current. I hate to partially agree with Redneckslim, perhaps it's time to either fold it up or put the For Sale sign on the front door. Maybe Delta can swoop in and save the day like some people have been wanting since the day of the bankruptcy filings. Northwest has some great routes that would easily sell to any airline that is willing to bid for them. And you know the major carriers would drop and run to the barganing table to get their bid in for some of them.

Hmph... be interesting to see what unfolds. It really doesn't sound good. As far as DL goes, I bet they'll sit back and watch. If it works, they might try it next. If NW folds, they may be a bit gun shy and hold back. But, I can't speak for them. Seems everyone is out for themselves. Which seems to be the way it is now adays for airlines. Makes me think twice about going to school... man, and I'm only a few weeks off from signing on the bottom line. The way it looks now, I would finish and have to go back to selling car parts.  crazy  Blah!
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:19 am

I'm glad some people here realize that pilots don't grow on trees, let alone qualified ones.

747-400.
Maybe some ex-UAL Capts/FOs . But I doubt that the cuts made it that high up the seniority list.

747-200.

NW is the only airline that flys them in the usa. It's not likely that any crew members from a Cargo operation would give up a safe job with Atlas,Polar or UPS for something as risky as a Restructuring airline.

DC-10-30.

No pilots except possibly some of the disgruntled World Airways pilots, or a FedEx pilot who hates the new MD-10 cockpit and is a self destructive part of life.

A330.
I'm sure that ex-IndyAir 319 pilots would love the upgrade! To bad they probably already signed with VirginAmerica.

757.
Well there are the Delta pilots. Anyone else that was cut as 757 pilot from an other airline likely isn't current in the rating.

A320.
Ahh, The plane that people keep mentioning. Folks where are these pilots going to come from? Surly not from a current Airbus airline like Jet Blue,US,Frontier,USA3000 or Spirit hell half of them are hiring. It's not going to be the ex IndyAir guys they are waiting in line at Virgin or the NW A330 job line.  mischievous 

DC-9.
NW could try placing a job add in some of the Flight Sim Forums.


But my friends there is a light at the end of all of these tunnels!!!

That light is the wives of many the NW pilots in the middle ranks that will cross the line after day 3 and turn SCAB. Because the average American wife couldn't give a crap about nobility of their cause, or Pilot Union Brotherhood, all she cares about is feeding her children, paying the mortgage, and keeping the family stable and together.

The reason I say middle ranks is that, the lower ranks are going to be cut anyway in the New Airline that NW is trying to make, And the Upper ranks aren't going to want to start the game all over again at the bottom.


A sad but true quote from a good movie goes "I'm a parent, I don't have the luxury of principals"
 
nitrohelper
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:32 am

RE: Northwest Pilots Authorize Strike

Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:19 am

So if the pay is the same, then what is NWA 's bitch with the pile-its (sorry) Union ?
Must be the Union work rules,,,health care,,,100 seaters,,, 401K plans ,,retires? ?
Anybody know some numbers? Thanks to AAA777 ,,you made things more clear
on the salary issue! Keep up the good work..  bigthumbsup 

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