nycfly75
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Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:16 pm

Delta has posted a loss of $300 million for January 2006, down from $314 million from January '05.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11644114/

[Edited 2006-03-03 04:17:06]
 
SESGDL
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:01 pm

Not bad, about $213 million excluding bankruptcy costs. Hopefully DL will improve and break even in 2007. Good to see that the unrestricted cash balance has increased.

Jeremy
 
GSPITNL
Posts: 342
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:07 pm

This is a very good sign for Delta. I really expect them to be Green by the end of 2007
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
SESGDL
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:10 pm

Wait, this is simply for January, not the first quarter. I don't know what I was thinking. Nevermind, this is not so good. 300 million in 30 days in almost $10 million dollars a day. Losses like this aren't sustainable. Fuel surely isn't helping. The cash position has improved though, which is a good thing.

Jeremy
 
redflyer
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
Delta has posted a loss of $300 million for January 2006, down from $314 million from January '05.

After a year they've trimmed their same-period loss by only 5%? Gee, only 20 more years before they finally break even.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:15 pm

I can't help but think getting these terrible numbers out doesn't have something to do with the ongoing pilot negotiations.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3):
Wait, this is simply for January, not the first quarter. I don't know what I was thinking. Nevermind, this is not so good. 300 million in 30 days in almost $10 million dollars a day. Losses like this aren't sustainable. Fuel surely isn't helping. The cash position has improved though, which is a good thing.

Whew!!!!! Thanks for the clarification.

I was wondering what about those numbers was encouraging. A $7 million per day loss after bankruptcy costs - All I can say is: OUCH!!

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 4):
After a year they've trimmed their same-period loss by only 5%? Gee, only 20 more years before they finally break even.

LOL!!
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:20 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3):
Wait, this is simply for January, not the first quarter. I don't know what I was thinking. Nevermind, this is not so good. 300 million in 30 days in almost $10 million dollars a day.

This isn't good. DL runs out of cash EOY 2006 if this keeps up. Although, I would expect some of this to be shifted forward positions due to the negotiations with pilots.

Oh, we have to finish March to get through the first quarter.  Wink

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3):
The cash position has improved though, which is a good thing.

No bad when ML throws $300 million to DL. Where is DL getting the extra capital to leverage? I know some was a shift in the credit card deal, but what else are they putting on the block?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
rwsea
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:27 pm

Well, remember that Q1 is also the slowest time of travel. Other than any January traffic held over from the holidays, and Spring Break, it's pretty damn quiet.

I think the real test for DL will be Q3, once all their new international service is in full swing and they're into the busiest time of the year.
 
Lono
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 1):
Not bad,

If this is not bad.... what is good...??

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 2):
This is a very good sign for Delta

And the rest of industry... fat lady is warming up

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3):
Losses like this aren't sustainable.

Ya think???

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 5):
A $7 million per day loss after bankruptcy costs

Ouch!!! DL is in big trouble...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
manni
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:56 pm

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
Delta has posted a loss of $300 million for January 2006, down from $314 million from January '05.

Not bad, if this trend continues they'll break even in januari 2027.

 no 
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:37 pm

Where is the money going?????? I mean, I understand all about the costs, overhead, fuel especially ---but WOW!

The planes seem to depart full or nearly full. Is competition from the LCC's still so strong DL is unable to charge high enough ticket prices to cover expenses? It seems to me since the LCC's are gonna have to start raising their fares, the LC's might benefit----but will it all be for naught?

I mean, will it all go "full circle". The LC's will ALL go ot of business and the LCC's will step in, and in order to provide all the extra services---they will become like the LC's they put out of business, and the fares will go up to resonable rates and BAM we are right back where we started before de-regulation!

I sure hate to see the ruin of the LC's if it is going to end up right back where it all started anyway. Airtravel will be for those who can afford the costs. What a new world the people in the industry now face. twocents 
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
SAS330
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
Not bad, if this trend continues they'll break even in januari 2027

Nothing to add. This is exactly the american way of airline business. Run into more debit as much as possible.
Wished we would have an European attitude in this case.
By the way, I think Delta keeps really the world-record of debits? What is it at least? 24 billion?
Great Job! I am proud about Delta!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:15 am

troubled companies don't turn around overnight. In case you've missed it, DL expects to begin showing profits by this summer and be consistently profitable in 2007 - just 18 months after filing bankruptcy. No other airline has turned around so fast. Remember that most of DL's restructuring up this point has been to pull down domestic capacity and do some upgrades to Latin America but most of the new routes have either just begun (a few started in Dec) or will come on line this summer and fall.

DL's turnaround plan is more solid and more supported by its financiers than that of any other airline. DL was able to obtain $1B more financing than the value of the underlying assets. DL got into trouble because it didn't move fast enough before fuel spiked but they are moving at warp speed now. And also note they are accumulating cash - not burning it - and still have a number of potentially sellable assets.

DL was the world's most profitable airline for a couple of years in the late 90s and was consistenly the US's most profitable airline for decades prior to deregulation. You are seeing DL return to its roots rather than run from it; it's future is very solid because they have a pretty decent track record which has been punctuated by about 5 years of bad management. They know what it takes to run a good airline and are on their way to doing it. You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.
 
WDBRR
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:54 am

I worry about Delta expanding too quickly internationally and
flying too many empty planes before each market can mature
with the loads. I remember reading that Braniff (I) expanded very
quickly in 1979/1980 to Europe, Asia and beyond...each flight had
a only few dozen people on them, this was one of the mistakes
they made that caused them to go out of business.
 
scotron11
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 10):

Where is the money going?????? I mean, I understand all about the costs, overhead, fuel especially ---but WOW!

And what about UAL and the "WOW", money that went down the drain with them? It's early days yet. Wait and see how much the losses they post will be just before they exit. Then you can say "WOW"!
 
B777-700
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:46 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
DL was the world's most profitable airline for a couple of years in the late 90s and was consistenly the US's most profitable airline for decades prior to deregulation. You are seeing DL return to its roots rather than run from it; it's future is very solid because they have a pretty decent track record which has been punctuated by about 5 years of bad management. They know what it takes to run a good airline and are on their way to doing it. You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.

Thank you for the clear and real-world post, that let's everyone know exactly how the process works. I'm afraid the logic will be lost on this lot.  Sad
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.

Talk about looking at the world through rose colored glasses! I guess it's refreshing to hear from an optemist.
 
keesje
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:19 pm

sad & worrying

after the staggering losses in 2004 and 2005 I really don´t know what Delta is going to do to repay the depts in the forseable future.

sell further assets, come up with something radical for the FF program? merge with nwa? sell hubs?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Rottamo
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting SAS330 (Reply 11):
Wished we would have an European attitude in this case.

Let’s wait few years. It is quite probable that situation is another way round quite soon. They will fix situation is US. One or two LC will merge or exit and surviving one's will have low cost base. Same time LCCs will expand in Europe and bloodbath will start here. European LC are quite small and Ryanair + Easyjet are very big relatively (measured by intra Europe RPM). And we don't have chapter eleven. What will aviation world look like 2010 is an interesting question. After all, deregulation started a lot earlier is US versus Europe.

Rottamo
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 16):
Talk about looking at the world through rose colored glasses! I guess it's refreshing to hear from an optemist.



Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 14):
Where is the money going?????? I mean, I understand all about the costs, overhead, fuel especially ---but WOW!



Quoting SAS330 (Reply 11):
Nothing to add. This is exactly the american way of airline business. Run into more debit as much as possible.
Wished we would have an European attitude in this case.
By the way, I think Delta keeps really the world-record of debits? What is it at least? 24 billion?
Great Job! I am proud about Delta!



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 6):
This isn't good. DL runs out of cash EOY 2006 if this keeps up.

People, before you post based on a single headline, please read the actual January 2006 report properly:

http://images.delta.com.edgesuite.net/delta/pdfs/MOR2006JAN.pdf

Operating loss for Jan 06 was $147mn, compared to $324mn in January 05 and $372mn last month (Dec 05). Even when you take out the pension expense item in Dec 05 (which did not exist for Jan 06), the operating loss was $196mn in Dec, still a $50 mn month-over-month improvement.

Most importantly, total cash levels have remained constant for the past few months; unrestricted cash has been stable at about $2.0-$2.1 billion. Remember also that this is probably the worst time of the year (1st Quarter) for airlines in terms of traffic volumes and cash levels.

Non-fuel CASM in January 2006 also dropped another 5.3% compared to Jan 2005 while RASM increased 12.3%....
 
flashmeister
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:55 am

Must use SkyMiles... Must use SkyMiles... Must use SkyMiles...

All kidding aside, DL management hasn't yet shaken things up to address the cyclical nature of their business. UA didn't do it in their trip, either, and I fully expect the next industry downturn to be critically painful for them. The only carrier with the balls to try to really improve things so far seems to be NWA.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 2):
This is a very good sign for Delta. I really expect them to be Green by the end of 2007

 rotfl   rotfl 

A monthly loss of $300M is not good by any means. DL still faces a HUGE journey of uncertainty ahead with skyropcketing fuel, union unrest and LCCs attacking them like piranhas.  biting 

My big question is how much can DL lose before creditors pull the plug om Chapter 11 and DL collapses into Chapter 7(liquidation)?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
B777-700
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 21):
A monthly loss of $300M is not good by any means. DL still faces a HUGE journey of uncertainty ahead with skyropcketing fuel, union unrest and LCCs attacking them like piranhas.

My big question is how much can DL lose before creditors pull the plug om Chapter 11 and DL collapses into Chapter 7(liquidation)?

 redflag  You just responded to the headline.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
You are seeing DL return to its roots rather than run from it; it's future is very solid because they have a pretty decent track record which has been punctuated by about 5 years of bad management. They know what it takes to run a good airline and are on their way to doing it. You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.

While i'm an AVID Delta Air Lines fan, there has been more than 5 years of bad management unfortunately, and while Grinstein is in place now and hopefully will turn the beast around, he was on the board during those more than 5 years of mis-management. Mullin shoulda been chopped at the head long before he was and Allen was in too long too!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ord
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 13):
I remember reading that Braniff (I) expanded very
quickly in 1979/1980 to Europe, Asia and beyond...each flight had
a only few dozen people on them, this was one of the mistakes
they made that caused them to go out of business.

You cannot compare Braniff (26-27 years ago!) to Delta. BN used gas-guzzling 747s while DL has efficient 767s and 777s. Also, BN flew routes with no connecting feed in cities where they had a small presence (i.e. BOS-FRA and LAX-SEL). DL is flying from JFK and ATL, where they have tons of connecting feed and a strong local presence.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3):
Wait, this is simply for January, not the first quarter. I don't know what I was thinking. Nevermind, this is not so good. 300 million in 30 days in almost $10 million dollars a day

Try this on for size -

Assuming $100 denomenations, Delta set fire to a pile of Benjamin Franklin's measuring 10 bills wide x 10 bills long x 3,000 bills high. Approx 120 cubic feet of $100 bills.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:30 pm

dfw,
not really. Money isn't really destroyed... just transferred. DL's customers, employees, and suppliers were the beneficiares of DL's inability to make money. When DL as a company turns it around, the others lose. That's just basic economics. Ask the folks at CO how their salaries have compared with DL's employees over the past 10 years. CO has been more profitable as a company but DL's employees have surely done better. Wealth is transferred, not created or destroyed.
 
Rottamo
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:58 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 21):
My big question is how much can DL lose before creditors pull the plug om Chapter 11 and DL collapses into Chapter 7(liquidation)?

Delta has yearly depreciation and amortization 1,273 millions.
I guess that in short term (several years) they can lose one billion per year
and creditors don't get mad. One reason why airlines can sustain these heavy losses is that they can lose money but cash flow from operating activities is still positive.

Delta and Northwestern are losing too much right now.

In the long run they have to get enough cash flow from operating activities to renew their fleets and losing money is not an option.

One thing I haven�t seen mentioned here very often is that interest rates are much higher now than two years ago. Also risk premiums for new debt are higher that 5 years ago. Most of legacies have a lot of debt and they have to pay more interest expenses now.

Rottamo
 
panamair
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:08 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 23):
While i'm an AVID Delta Air Lines fan, there has been more than 5 years of bad management unfortunately, and while Grinstein is in place now and hopefully will turn the beast around, he was on the board during those more than 5 years of mis-management. Mullin shoulda been chopped at the head long before he was and Allen was in too long too!

Yes, but hindsight is always 20/20. ALL the people who are NOW complaining about Leo and Ron ALL kept their mouths shut BACK THEN. Did you hear a single pilot or FA or GA or a.nutter or industry analyst complain back then? Heck, Leo was even getting praise from everyone for his efforts post-9/11 to shore up DL's finances and for leading the industry charge up Capitol Hill to drum up government support for the airlines. Leo was getting praise for his building up of DL Technology to pioneer those Plasma screens at boarding gates which everyone loves so much...In the case of Ron Allen, he only came under fire when he started implementing Leadership 7.5 - hell, you could even call him a visionary now for thinking so far ahead - if he had achieved his goals, we would probably not be having this discussion thread at all......
My point is, it's easy being a Monday morning quarterback on this stuff now. I am not sure that even if Gordon Bethune was on DL's board then that he would have called for Mullin or Allen's ouster....
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:22 pm

Yes, Panamair, everyone complains about leadership when they start asking for cuts but no one complained about Leo Mullin when he signed the contract that made DL pilots the highest paid in the industry.

Yes, Ron Allen does look alot better in light of today's situation. He pushed to make DL a worldwide carrier and achieved at least part of it. And he recognized 15 years ago that low cost carriers were a force to be reckoned with and worked to make DL capable of competing with them. Instead, DALPA fought management every step of the way for the past 15 years and is now faced with having DL pilot wages being reduced to LCC levels. DALPA has been more obtuse than visionary.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3):

Yes this is very bad. DL is continuing to pax confidence recent stats did not paint a flattering picture for DL or it Connection carriers EV and OH.

Quoting ORD (Reply 24):

They are not a Braniff, Eastern is more like it. Eastern has a huge Latin and South American operation.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 30):

Indeed, there is a new book released point the misguidance in DL leadership. '02 DL was having troubles and the Board did nothing. I honestly think the current board of directos and ATL will be the demise of DL. Absent managers.


The one problem, DL is too big. DL needs to dissolve OH, dump the RJ's and rebid the flying to other regionals who know how to operate efficiently and profitable. I live 30 minutes from an airport served with CRJ's now I drove an 1:15 to pick up an AA MD-80.

DL business plan is flawed and they do not recognize it. After purchasing Western airlines in the 80's they had LAX gates for a hub. LAX is the nations largest O&D yielding airport in N. America. DL slowly dismantled LAX while growing ATL. Last year, DL dehubs DFW another high yielding market. DL said they never made money in DFW. Hire someone who can.

ATL's yields have dropped since FL; however, DL feels they must protect thier turf by flooding the market with flights. The FAA is already identified ATL as the next market for slot review; today slots are awarded through a lottery. Should DAL lose slots they will be forced to buy them back with what money I do not know.

DL has experienced record high load factors and the same time they're posting record losses. Maybe the prices are too low. This is an airline that has become PC, appeasing communities throughout the south which has caught up to them.

DL has fewer unions than other bankrupt carriers. Yet, it cites the needs from the pilots, DL will piss these concessions away in one month according to January's report. Not good!!

Very sad.
 
panamair
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 32):
DL business plan is flawed and they do not recognize it

Don't recognize it? By flawed business plan, I assume you mean the previous one where the focus was on using big hubs like ATL, SLC, and CVG to funnel millions of low-yielding passengers a year to visit Mickey & Minnie? Well, news for you:

- by May, there will hardly be any widebodies left to Florida (except for 1 or 2 on ATL-FLL/MCO and maybe one on JFK-MCO). Even some transcons like ATL-SFO will see reductions to no more than 2 767s a day. LGA for the first time in ages, will actually see no DL widebodies at all. The largest a/c on LGA-ATL will be the 757 (this route used to have L1011s and 764s).
- started or will be starting more O&D driven routes such as LGA-ORD, LGA-DFW, LGA-MIA, LAX-CMH, LAX-RDU, LAX-CUN/ZIH

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 32):
DL has experienced record high load factors and the same time they're posting record losses

What are you talking about? January had record high load factors but they did not post record January losses. Didn't you see that January 06 losses improved on January 05 and Dec 05 losses??

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 32):
I live 30 minutes from an airport served with CRJ's now I drove an 1:15 to pick up an AA MD-80.

Well, you're quite special..most people don't choose their flights based on a/c type (schedule and fares being the biggest drivers).
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5272
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 30):
Did you hear a single pilot or FA or GA or a.nutter or industry analyst complain back then?

Actually, many people were complaining about Mullin back then. However, because DL was posting big profits, those who complained were ignored.

DL cost's were spiraling out of control (even before signing the pilots contract). DL spent billions buying back stock in an effort to jumpstart DL's over-valued stock price. The effort failed miserably. DL's management ranks swelled enormously. LCC's continued to infiltrate DL's territory and DL did nothing to stop them.

But of course, the bubble economy of the late 90's masked these problems and DL made profits. So all of the mistakes and mis-management were ignored until it was too late.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 5):
can't help but think getting these terrible numbers out doesn't have something to do with the ongoing pilot negotiations.

they don't they are required SEC filings!

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
it's future is very solid because they have a pretty decent track record which has been punctuated by about 5 years of bad management

DL issues were caused by much more than management.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 20):
Must use SkyMiles... Must use SkyMiles... Must use SkyMiles...

DL Skymiles used: 560,000, remaining balance = 152  Smile number of times I plan on flying DL in the future = 0
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:29 am

DL Skymiles used: 560,000

How on Earth did you use this many?
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 32):
The one problem, DL is too big. DL needs to dissolve OH, dump the RJ's and rebid the flying to other regionals who know how to operate efficiently and profitable. I live 30 minutes from an airport served with CRJ's now I drove an 1:15 to pick up an AA MD-80.

Fact is, 90% of passengers do not care whether they are flying an MD-80 or a CRJ. All that matters is a good price and a safe trip. For business travelers, many of whom no longer fly in F, a CRJ is merely an inconvenience. Hardly anyone is going to go 1 hour+ out of their way to avoid an RJ.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 33):
- by May, there will hardly be any widebodies left to Florida (except for 1 or 2 on ATL-FLL/MCO and maybe one on JFK-MCO).

In May there will still be 12 daily widebodies between ATL and Florida to JAX, MCO, TPA, and FLL. There's also JFK-MCO. This will not likely change. In the winter DL will probably up this a bit like usual.

Jeremy
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 37):



Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 37):
DL Skymiles used: 560,000

How on Earth did you use this many?

since about 1998:

4 Business Class R/T free tickets BNA-LGW
4 Business Class R/T free tickets BNA-AMS
4 First R/Ts BNA-San Juan
2 First R/T's BNA-St Thomas
2 First R/T BNA-YYZ
3 First R/T BNA-LAS
1 First R/T BNA-PHX
2 First R/T BNA-LAX
1 Coach Free BNA-YYZ
1 Coach free BNA-LAS
2 Coach free PHX-LGA
1 First free BNA-TUS

on second though maybe it was more than 560K miles  Smile

Glad I used all those tickets.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 33):
- by May, there will hardly be any widebodies left to Florida (except for 1 or 2 on ATL-FLL/MCO and maybe one on JFK-MCO). Even some transcons like ATL-SFO will see reductions to no more than 2 767s a day. LGA for the first time in ages, will actually see no DL widebodies at all. The largest a/c on LGA-ATL will be the 757 (this route used to have L1011s and 764s).
-rnstarted or will be starting more O&D driven routes such as LGA-ORD,rnLGA-DFW, LGA-MIA, LAX-CMH, LAX-RDU, LAX-CUN/ZIH

The LGA expansion is retaliation to AA serving ATL from LGA. DL will lose big time on the DFW run with an RJ. The RDU-LAX would be an excellent route except for it's a red eye. Finally DL has hired the right guy in network planning, but this is one area.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 33):
Whatrnare you talking about? January had record high load factors but theyrndid not post record January losses. Didn't you see that January 06rnlosses improved on January 05 and Dec 05 losses??

OK, so January of '06 improves with a $300 million loss!! This is not acceptable with record load factor's. Certainly nothing to get excited about.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 33):
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 32):
I live 30 minutes from an airport served with CRJ's now I drove an 1:15 to pick up an AA MD-80.

Well,rnyou're quite special..most people don't choose their flights based onrna/c type (schedule and fares being the biggest drivers).

Indeed, this is a 2:20 minute flight, no one can convince me anything over 1:30 on a CRJ is comfortable.

Considering your response, it appears I've insulted your job with DL or DL connection. I was a Platinum Medallionrnfor several years. There is nothing more disappointing to watch arncompany go down in flames as DL. I do empathize with it's employee's.

As a traveler, I'm sick of the delays and the CRJ's. East of the Miss, one is hard pressed to find a DL city without an RJ. I'm disgusted with the arrogance of mgt from legacy carriers not taking the LCC serious.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 42):
The LGA expansion is retaliation to AA serving ATL from LGA. DL will lose big time on the DFW run with an RJ.

Why is that? DL is using 70-seat ERJ-170s, which to many are more comfortable than MD-80s. DL also retains its large FF-base in DFW and is still the largest passenger carrier at LGA, with a huge NYC-FF base. Why will they lose big time. Didn't people also say this about AA at ATL, who doesn't have the local large FF base?

Jeremy
 
ERAUMcDlover
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:16 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:01 am

Mr. President? Is that you? We didn't know you were an aviation bufff....
lol.
Delta's hardships have come a long way. No one definitive answer. Management, fleet type failures, like the introduction of the MD-90, and MD-11, I love them both, but both hurt DL, by not meeting the expectations, and yes, management. Complacency has hurt all the carriers, but definately the legacies the most. I think NW has more problems, look for the Southern Lady to be gracing these skies for mannnnnnnnnny more years to come.
Rhodes
DL, what a classy lady....Mad Dogs...a classy plane.....USA...just the best all around
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 30):
Did you hear a single pilot or FA or GA or a.nutter or industry analyst complain back then?

I complained.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 31):
but no one complained about Leo Mullin when he signed the contract that made DL pilots the highest paid in the industry



Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 40):
No one complained about Mullin,

I complained rather vocally along with many of my fellow Delta AMTs. You mean to tell me you actually bought into that "Win, Win situation" crap that Leo labeled the new pilot contract as? I know you all will say show me where you complained. I can't, I wasn't an Anet member at the time and I didn't post anything any where else. But believe me that just about any Delta employee without a widget tattooed on their backside was complaining. Remember Warren Jensen? He was Leo's first appointee and CFO back in 1998. How long did he last? About 6 months. Why so short? He demanded an agent put his child(ren) and friends in first class and remove paying passengers from the plane. They complied and the resulting fallout led to his resignation. I knew Jensen was trouble when he visited the TOC after about a week in the aviation industry and proclaimed that it was all dead weight and should be outsourced because it wasn't cash flow positive. The point is LEO brought this jerk in here as one of his trusted cronies which told me something about Leo's credibility. You may not find print sources to back up how I felt then, but don't for a minute assume that I or others in the employ of Delta at the time didn't think Leo was anything but a Harvard Business educated member of the "club" who had little interest in Delta other than lining his and his buddies pockets with the sweat of you and me.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 35):
DL issues were caused by much more than management

Would you care to share with us what you think constitutes much more than management?


DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 50):
Would you care to share with us what you think constitutes much more than management?

Where to start:

Banks that financed the Comair and ASA purchases even though the economics made no sense

Pilots that vowed "Full pay to the last day" when they knew the company was screwed.

Atlanta for stedfastly not allowing a releaver airport and causing ATL to be the biggest nightmare of a hub.

There are more examples

It's not correct to say it was only one group. Many are culpable.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 50):
It's not correct to say it was only one group. Many are culpable.

Every airline has deal with issues outside it's direct control. Recognizing those issues and dealing with them in a manner that benefits your particular airline is managements job. Sorry, I'm not buying your argument.

DL757Md

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 51):
I just said, "When money comes in, people shut their mouths."

Not everybody does.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 51):
I only wish Mullin would have followed right behind.

Amen to that.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:58 pm

That's a lot of money!!

Hope they turn things around soon!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 42):
Sorry, I'm not buying your argument.

Of course you won't.

You tell me where EXACTLY will the airlines be in 5 years and what trends and planning should be started now. What will the price of oil be in 12, 24 and 48 months. Will there be a bird flu outbreak? Will the Asian economy collapse?

If you can answer these questions 100% correctly and we can verify that in the above mentioned time periods then you can say "management" is clueless.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Delta Posts $300 Million Loss For January 2006

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 38):
Why is that? DL is using 70-seat ERJ-170s, which to many are more comfortable than MD-80s. DL also retains its large FF-base in DFW and is still the largest passenger carrier at LGA, with a huge NYC-FF base. Why will they lose big time. Didn't people also say this about AA at ATL, who doesn't have the local large FF base?

When the flights were announced I was in DFW, WFAA reported the service would be on a CRJ-700. If it's a EMB-170, those are nice aircraft. I flew US PHL -DFW 2 weeks ago on a E-170; I was 1 of 13 passengers bumped due to winds. We were reacommodated on a 733.