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Buyantukhaa
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KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:02 pm

In February, KLM was sentenced by a Philippine court to paying a €200.000 fine, a KLM spokesman said on Friday.

The suitcase belonged to the Philippine doctor Jose Tiongco. In 1998 he flew AMS-FRA on KLM, on his way to Kazachstan, where he would give a speech on a conference of the WHO as the envoy of the Philippine government.

As he lost his suitcase, he was forced to give the speech in jeans and sport shoes. The judge put a lot of emphasis on the fact that the man had lost his dignity.

The airline considers the fine unjust and has announced it will appeal against the ruling. "If this becomes the normal way for things to go, all airlines will be bankrupt within a month", according to the spokesman.


http://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/article236214.ece

Very very strange story..... and this event happened eight years ago?!
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RichardPrice
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
The airline considers the fine unjust and has announced it will appeal against the ruling. "If this becomes the normal way for things to go, all airlines will be bankrupt within a month", according to the spokesman.

Easy. Stop losing luggage.

I think when it is considered 'the normal way' for airlines to lose luggage and get off fairly lightly for it, that is the unfair part.
 
bennett123
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:14 pm

It seem strange that this took 8 years to come to court.

Easy. Stop losing luggage.

I think when it is considered 'the normal way' for airlines to lose luggage and get off fairly lightly for it, that is the unfair part.

Please show me an airline that never loses suitcases and I will show you one that does'nt fly much.

This amount seems a bit steep. A few more lost cases and the guy can afford to retire.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:23 pm

I'm not surprised at all.

About 4 years ago I was waiting on the roof at AMS watching from their gallery before my flight.

I saw a baggage train drive past when one suitcase fell out and opened.
For about 15 minutes it was there, one car drove over the contents which started blowing about on the road.

The a guy finally drove past and stopped, wrapped up some the belongings and stuffed into the bag and took it off, however there was still loads of bits from the suitase, which he picked up and threw into a FOD bin !!
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RichardPrice
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:34 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 2):
Please show me an airline that never loses suitcases and I will show you one that does'nt fly much.

Theres a difference between losing a few bits of luggage now and then, and losing luggage being considered 'normal'. It seems to me that the penalty for loss isnt high enough that the airlines try everything in their power to not lose luggage, so maybe this case was needed.

Its my property, entrusted to 'you', the airline, to get it from A to B the same as me, the passenger. Consider that I *need* that luggage when I get to B, it isnt optional and it isnt negotiable. There is no excuse.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:36 pm

If this guy was so important how come he couldn't send someone out to buy him a suit? Even in Khazakstan I'm sure they have at least one shop or tailer. I'm also assuming he didn't go straight from the airport to conference centre. There must be way more to it than this but I can't read Dutch. Richard, I don't think airlines lose suitcases on purpose. Except Air France.
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RichardPrice
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:45 pm

Im not saying they do it on purpose, but the penalties for losing luggage are set so low that they dont care about your luggage. Its as simple as that. Until the airlines start being hurt because of it they wont start caring, they wont do anything until the cost of a loss is higher than the cost of applying a little more care and attention.
 
airforum
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:48 pm

What goes up, must come down. Let's hope the sky never went up.
 
sevenair
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:15 pm

It's a little unfair, especially when it's not the airline, but handling agents who loose the bags. And if you're a Dr, surely you would be able to afford a shirt and tie. I'm sure things are pretty cheap in Kazakstan as it is!
 
PanHAM
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:15 pm

strange thing. Some of the flight numbers don't match up,LH does not have 5 digit numbers, a flight to Almaty had a 3 digit number starting with 6. This basic system is valid for decades and has only been adapted for growth. The routing makes you wonder as well, with a dirct LH connection MNL-FRA-ATY possible. Looks like the Doctor bought a cheap ticket with 3 transfers instead of one. That would be a contributing factor to the loss of luggage.

The Philippines have signed and ratified the Warsaw and Chicago conventions, they would not be able to collect the money from this ruling in the Netherlands. ZThe title would not hold up there. International treaties seem to be not so important in the Philippines, Fraport can talk a lot aboun that one.

Makes you wonder how much the judge would get out of this ruling if the money ever flows.
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bphendri
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:29 pm

And this court ruling came from a countries who's national air cariers code letters is often referred to as "Package allways lost?"

No offense, but sounds typical of Philippine government corruption / shake down for money to me.

Now if this was a doctor from California, giving a lecture in a shirt and a jeans would have been no loss of dignity.
 
Joni
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RE: KL Sentenced To �200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:00 pm

200k is an awfully large sum for one suitcase, since the contents of said suitcase apparently don't even approach that sum.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):
The Philippines have signed and ratified the Warsaw and Chicago conventions, they would not be able to collect the money from this ruling in the Netherlands

Good point. So the ruling may very well be against the (international treaty) law.

I still don't understand how this could have dragged on for so long, and also the itinerary of the man is strange.... I'll be interested to see where this goes in appeal.
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sk601
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RE: KL Sentenced To €200.000 Fine For Losing Suitcase

Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 6):
Until the airlines start being hurt because of it they wont start caring, they wont do anything until the cost of a loss is higher than the cost of applying a little more care and attention.

I agree. KL has one of the highest Irr-rates in the industry, KL claims that's because KL has more transfer traffic then any other airline in Europe and therefore more chances to loose a bag than O&D airlines. I agree on that point as well, however the KL organisation in AMS is as such that there is a lot of room for (major) improvements. KL is very pickey when it comes to compensation (actually only when some kind of law tells them to compensate, they will, from a customer relation point of view they are not generous). When they will have to compensate more €€€ then they might wake up.

Quoting Stargoldlhr (Reply 3):
About 4 years ago I was waiting on the roof at AMS watching from their gallery before my flight.

I saw a baggage train drive past when one suitcase fell out and opened.
For about 15 minutes it was there, one car drove over the contents which started blowing about on the road

KL introduced a bagage SOS team a while ago. Before that up to 100 bags fell of bagage trolleys a day, after the introduction of the SOS team it's down to only 4 or 5 a day! Congratulations on that on KL! (KL has about 40,000 transferbags on a regular day so that's not bad IMO)