jpj777
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New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:01 am

I searched for this topic but did not find it, hope its not a duplicate... (Los Angeles, California – March 1, 2006) Air travelers will soon be able to go from downtown to out of town on low-cost, non-stop FlyAway bus service beginning March 15, 2006, Los Angeles World Airports (LAWA) announced today. http://www.lawa.org/news/newsDisplay.cfm?newsID=784 If I still lived in LA this would have helped because I took Metrolink Comute trains downtown all the time, is this one piece fixed in a 100 piece broken puzzle that is LAX?
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:14 am

Actually it was buried a few months back inside another LAX thread when the airport commissioners approved the new FlyAway bus service.

$3 probably is one of the bargains in LA!
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FiveMileFinal
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:32 am

What I don't understand is why the LACMTA didn't jump in on this a lot earlier, instead of having people rely on the Blue and Green lines or their own (horrifically inadequate) Route 439. Something political, I'm sure.
You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
 
Devilfish
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
the airport commissioners approved the new FlyAway bus service.

It's definite, then. Would they be fielding the new tandem Rapid busses?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
$3 probably is one of the bargains in LA!

You could say "best" bargain! I love it!
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
upsldplaner1
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:50 am

They need this like 10 years ago when Metrolink started. Why havent they done it? I fly into LAX and live in SBD, ya because LAX is cheaper, and would love it if I could catch the train. Lax would benifeit, the airlines, and all the cities in the So Cal area. I know the shuttle services would not but I am sorry, I am not going to pay 45 dollars to get from LAX to downtown. This is what I was quoted last July 2005. Union Station serves so many cities with the metrolink and Amtrak, I cant see why they havent jumped on it either. What do we have to do to incourage these officials to do it. Let me know I will try something  Big grin
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Upsldplaner1 (Reply 4):
Why havent they done it? I

Due politics and economics.

The FlyAway is does not turn a profit, in fact its estimated to loose over $3 million in 2006 on the regional Van Nuys service alone. LAWA has continued to subsidise the service basically out of kindness and willingness to create a low cost transportation alternative while helping reduce vehicle miles travelled in LA. About 750,000 people use the Van Nuys FlyAway on a yearly basis.

This Union station line is a 1 year pilot test (however LAWA did commit to 3 year leases on facilities) to see if nonstop bus service from the downtown area is warranted. Union Station was chosen due to connections it offers with other rail/bus services. Its estimated this line will generate loses of $4.1 million which LAWA will cover. LAWA estimates approximately 250,000 will make use of the new Union bus once established.

The other side of the political coin, is that LAWA recently finished negotiations for another multi year agreement for the 2,000 or so cabs that serve LAX. Its unlikely the city wanted to announce the FlyAway during prior years leading into these talks, as the taxis and LA City DOT which represents and governs them would likely oppose the bus service and become an area for contention. Taxi's from LAX have fixed non metered fees established by the DOT for service to the downtown area. Basically one arm of the LA City government has an interest in protecting taxi ridership due to the revenues generated.

At the end of the day, while many might like the idea of the FlyAway bus services, if it were not for the fact LAWA runs a surplus and has willingness to keep subsidizing the services, it should not exist at all on a purely business/economic point of view.
For those that suggest modest fare increases, LAWA has tried gimmicks with ticket books, fare changes etc, however once the roundtrip fare increases much more then $6 the ridership starts dropping off faster then revenues increase.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Devilfish
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
This Union station line is a 1 year pilot test



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Its estimated this line will generate loses of $4.1 million which LAWA will cover. LAWA estimates approximately 250,000 will make use of the new Union bus once established.

Just wait till more people know about this. LAWA might still have to subsidize, but it could be substantially less. Imagine the car traffic load that would be taken off the freeways.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Its unlikely the city wanted to announce the FlyAway during prior years leading into these talks, as the taxis and LA City DOT which represents and governs them would likely oppose the bus service



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Basically one arm of the LA City government has an interest in protecting taxi ridership due to the revenues generated.

2005 was an election year and neither side wanted additional enemies if it could be avoided.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Taxi's from LAX have fixed non metered fees established by the DOT for service to the downtown area.

This is tantamount to highway robbery and an aberration that must be removed.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
The FlyAway is does not turn a profit, in fact its estimated to loose over $3 million in 2006 on the regional Van Nuys service alone



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
At the end of the day, while many might like the idea of the FlyAway bus services, if it were not for the fact LAWA runs a surplus and has willingness to keep subsidizing the services, it should not exist at all on a purely business/economic point of view.

L.A. has a much bigger catchment area that could support such services.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
CMK10
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:04 am

Typical, I arrive via Amtrak at Union Station and fly out that night from LAX on March 10th. Why hast God forsaken me?
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
SFORunner
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting Jpj777 (Thread starter):
non-stop FlyAway bus service

Trust me, there'll be plenty of stopping once the bus gets onto the 405.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:36 am

During one of my first trips to LAX during the early 1980's, there used to be helicopter service from a pad on top of a parking garage.

Anybody know about this service?
 
BigGSFO
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
During one of my first trips to LAX during the early 1980's, there used to be helicopter service from a pad on top of a parking garage.

Anybody know about this service?

I do remember this service. It operated to downtown LA, Malibu and I think Burbank. I can see helicopter service returning, similar to the new service in NYC, returning to Los Angeles metro. In addtion, helicopter service was also available in San Francisco.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:50 am

Yes...SFO Helicopter flew from OAK to SFO. I don't where else they flew.

Does anyone remember the name of Helo operator at LAX?
 
zchannel
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:55 am

I think that's a good idea. For anyone that uses the Van Nuys Flyaway, it is a God send. Regardless if there is "a lot of stopping once on the 405" as someone above mentioned, I would rather sit on a bus and doze off than actually be behind the wheel in that type of traffic...
ZChannel: Member FDIC
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 6):
This is tantamount to highway robbery and an aberration that must be removed.

Actually you'll find the fixed rate to be a good deal compared to if the meter was running and you were stuck in traffic. Fixed rate fare was started several years back at the behest of the LA Convention on Visitors Bureau to help attract more events and hotels stays in the downtown area.
New York City also has a similar fixed fare deal for instance for travel into parts of Manhattan from airports such as JFK.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 6):
L.A. has a much bigger catchment area that could support such services.

Its hard to get Angelino's out of their cars even if the service was free!

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
Anybody know about this service?

Company called Airspur. They connect LAX with Burbank, Orange Country and Ontario.
Besides an unfortunate accident they had down in Orange County, the loads were never able to consistently cover the operating cost.
They also experienced costly issues with engines/rotors on the Westland helicopters.


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Devilfish
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:22 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Actually you'll find the fixed rate to be a good deal compared to if the meter was running and you were stuck in traffic.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Its hard to get Angelino's out of their cars even if the service was free!

Because there isn't (until this announcement) a good, dependable and cheaper alternative!
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
767er
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:30 pm

How would I get Public Transport from Riverside to LAX...I simply refuse to let my sis in law drive me from there to LAX????
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
Devilfish
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting 767ER (Reply 15):
How would I get Public Transport from Riverside to LAX.

Try metrotrip.org
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
FiveMileFinal
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
Try metrotrip.org

That doesn't resolve for me.

Quoting 767ER (Reply 15):
How would I get Public Transport from Riverside to LAX..

Until March 15, your trip will involve 4 rail lines and a bus (Metrolink, Metro's Red, Blue and Green Lines and the shuttle from the Aviation/LAX station.

Afterward, just take Metrolink in to Union Station and grab the FlyAway bus.
You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:15 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
Because there isn't (until this announcement) a good, dependable and cheaper alternative!

At the end of the day, LAWA is not a charity.

The Van Nuys FlyAway has been running now for more then 20 years, and has yet to breakeven a single year.
Even with this dependable service, yearly ridership has plateaued and remained pretty steady (very slight increase) during the last decade all the while LA traffic has gotten worse and passenger volume at LAX continues to rise.

The creation of the Union Station line is being done more for LAWA's own political plans as part of regional air transportation initiative. It recently came to light an initiative to get rail service to connect Union Station with Ontario Airport. LAWA thus is trying to get the Union Station name in play, and also is working on securing leases on parking facilities and other real estate around the station. This all plays into the eventual goal of diverting traffic away from LAX and towards other airports particularly LAWA's own ONT facilities.

The FlyAway as I've mentioned on its own simply cannot justify its cost from a pure economic point of view as ridership remains way below what is required to break even, an frankly as we all know its very difficult to persuade Angelino's into any form of transportation outside of their cars.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Devilfish
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting FiveMileFinal (Reply 17):
That doesn't resolve for me

Sorry. Should have said socaltransport.org instead.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
It recently came to light an initiative to get rail service to connect Union Station with Ontario Airport.

It would be interesting to see if this contemplated rail service would get the ridership required to justify its existence also from a pure economic point of view - as claimed projections could not support a vastly cheaper mode of transport even with the worsening LA traffic and continuously rising passenger volume at LAX. Angelinos must really love their cars to suffer so. If the rails couldn't get it either, I guess it is the poor taxpayers' turn to do the charity.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
This all plays into the eventual goal of diverting traffic away from LAX and towards other airports particularly LAWA's own ONT facilities.

All related to convincing domestic carriers to use ONT, leaving LAX free for higher yield international flights. A most laudable aim, I must admit.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
N1120A
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 8):
Trust me, there'll be plenty of stopping once the bus gets onto the 405.

If the bus driver is smart, they wont even bother with the 405. 101/110/10/La Cienega.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
101/110/10/La Cienega.

I remember seeing a map for the service when it was still only an internal proposal many months back.. I believe it showed using the 110/105 for most of the journey.. suppose the carpool/bus lanes are a big advantage.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
All related to convincing domestic carriers to use ONT, leaving LAX free for higher yield international flights. A most laudable aim, I must admit.

I believe LAWA in the coming years will start using economic blackmail to encourage airline and public shifts away from LAX to ensure the facility does not exceed the recently approved court settlement agreement of 75 million annual passengers.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
sllevin
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:19 am

Be interesting to see how it fairs. In truth, I don't think there's that kind of of LAX traffic through Union Station.

The Van Nuys Flyaway has the distinct advantage of being 'on the way' for a large number of people and is much better thought of as an inexpensive remote parking lot than part of a transportation link.

Steve
 
N1120A
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):
I remember seeing a map for the service when it was still only an internal proposal many months back.. I believe it showed using the 110/105 for most of the journey.. suppose the carpool/bus lanes are a big advantage.

Actually, I totally forgot about that freaky 110 carpool/bus/rail flyover. That actually will be a rather fast route. Does the Glenn Anderson have a busway too?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
atct
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:54 am

Is it just me, or did anyone else read the topic and go....Union Station...to LAX....isnt that like 3,000 Miles?! I am referring to Union Station, D.C. I was like, man thats a heck of a bus ride...no thanks on that! (Even an Airbus :P oooo bad pun against the euro plane people lol).

ATCT
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N1120A
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting ATCT (Reply 25):
Is it just me, or did anyone else read the topic and go....Union Station...to LAX....isnt that like 3,000 Miles?! I am referring to Union Station, D.C. I was like, man thats a heck of a bus ride...no thanks on that! (Even an Airbus :P oooo bad pun against the euro plane people lol).

Union Station, Los Angeles. There are several Union Stations, and D.C. isn't even the largest.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Does the Glenn Anderson have a busway too?

No busway, however carpoll lane that ends just about at the 405.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N1120A
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 27):
No busway, however carpoll lane that ends just about at the 405.

Ok, makes sense.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
upsldplaner1
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:24 pm

In the long run this will work. Look at metrolink when it first started. Not many people knew about it. But as the traffic increases and it cost more for someone to get to the airport, I myself would be glad to pay a 10 dollar trip anyday to get to Union Station from LAX before I am going to pay a private shuttle 45 dollars as what I was quoted. If it works people are going to catch on to it. I think they wont profit in the short run but they will in the long run.
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting Upsldplaner1 (Reply 29):
profit in the short run but they will in the long run.

Considering the Van Nuys FlyAway has been running 20+ years now and has not managed to profit, I seriously doubt the Union Station bus will ever either, especially considering the forcast demand for it is only 1/3 of the Valley shuttle.

But either way I suppose its nice to offer the public another alternate form of transportation that in its own little way will help traffic and pollution.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
upsldplaner1
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 30):

but either way I suppose its nice to offer the public another alternate form of transportation that in its own little way will help traffic and pollution.

I would have to strongly agree. Hopefully it will be a win win situation for everyone.
 
Devilfish
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 30):
But either way I suppose its nice to offer the public another alternate form of transportation that in its own little way will help traffic and pollution.

Considering it's now the 6th of March, would they be publishing or announcing the schedules soon? What type of busses, and will those be stationed at Patsaouras Plaza?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ikramerica
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:51 am

I don't quite get the concept of "it will lose money but it's a gift."

How much does the airport charge to take the long term parking buses? Inter terminal buses? Escalators? Man, those all lose a lot of money, right?

This is an added service as part of operating the airport, to help relieve congestion and get pax to and from the airport efficiently. It is paid for partially by airport passenger facility charges, landing fees, concessions, and there is a token fee of $3 to passengers to prevent abuse that also helps with some of the cost.

As long as the airport makes money as a whole, just like the Van Nuys runs, it's a good idea. They will only discontinue it if ridership isn't up to snuff. Making money on the route has little to do with it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jpj777
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:07 am

Devilfish: Yes they are going to leave from Berth 9 at the Patsaouras/Gateway Transit Plaza and looks like construction will start this summer on the light rail line to Culver City making Union Station even busier in the comming years, there going to need more then just busses in the future! http://www.mta.net/news_info/press/metro_032.htm
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 32):
Considering it's now the 6th of March, would they be publishing or announcing the schedules soon? What type of busses,

Runs every half hour from 5am-1am and hourly in between. Fee is $3 each way with discounts for employees and passbooks available.
I actually heard a radio add for it over the weekend!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
How much does the airport charge to take the long term parking buses? Inter terminal buses? Escalators? Man, those all lose a lot of money, right?

No but the airport as you are most likely aware makes a little fortune in parking each year, so the shuttles to/from them are paid for many times over.

The airport really does not get much return for running these shuttle from Van Nuys or Union Station. From a business point of view the airport would derive much more revenue having you drive to LAX and pay for the high parking rates, or even use taxi's or commercial shuttles which they also receive a percentage fee from.

The Van Nuys, and Union Station shuttles are run more as a gift to the community, while also helping further certain greater LAWA regional political aims.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MGA
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RE: New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX

Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:47 am

Los Angeles public transportation is a very controversial subject. The truth is that the real need of Downtown Los Angeles is RAIL service directly to LAX, not route 439, FlyAway (both eventualy hit traffic) or the horrible Blue/Green Line and G bus connection. The newly approved Grey Line from Downtown to Culver City should be extended IN TO or at least no more than a mile away from LAX instead of the proposed Santa Monica Extension.

Anothe biggie is the focus on Downtown. Los Angeles needs good public conection (rail) to LAX from the valley and the West Side directly to LAX. All the available rail conections at the moment are 3 trains and eventually a trip through Downtown L.A. Those areas account for a HUGE percentage of the people that fly through LAX.

FlyAway isnt as much as a relief as I would expect. 6 dollars for parking at union station a day is still a bit high. You can find some decent specials at LAX to park for $6-7 and have your car right there when you get back. Of course it does help for the Metrolink/Amtrak commuter train conection, but doesnt really benefit Los Angeles itself.

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!