nwafflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:09 am

Are cameras allowed on NW? Can photographs be taken while inflight? Have friends (first time flyers) going east over Easter, and they want to take pictures

Flights will be LAN/DTW, DTW/PVD, PVD/MSP and MSP/FNT. Aircraft will be SAAB, A320 and DC-9
 
squirrel83
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:28 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:11 am

Ive used my camera multiple times DTW-CDG and AMS-SEA and have had no prob although Id keep it down if your looking to use it durning take-off and landing. .
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:05 am

I haven't had a hassle with NW and cameras. The only bottleneck will be at security......if there is a bottleneck. I also use FNT and LAN.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
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RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:14 pm

Use them all the time on NW, take off landing etc.
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
take off landing etc.

thats nice, and against the law
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boeing764
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:24 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:36 pm

I flew on NW earlier this month from SFO-NRT-SFO and I took lots of photos out the window during the flight.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/boeing764/KasimaOilDepot.jpg

I also got a flight deck photo, after we arrived at the gate in Tokyo.
From Dr. King's America to Nelson Mandela's Africa, the journey of equality moves on.
 
Captintut
Posts: 317
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 1:35 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:05 pm

Took lots of Pictures last week in my route DEN-MSP During Take off and landing and inside the plane and didn't have any troubles, you can check some of them at aviation.net
enjoy
Aircraft Flown: B747-B777-B737-B767-B757-A300-A318-A319-A320-A321-A330-A340-MD80-MD90-CRJ600-CRJ900-E190-A380
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 4):

thats nice, and against the law

And why is it against the law?
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:13 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 7):
And why is it against the law?

Probably because the camera it is an electronic device. But if it is an old mechanical camera...
 
ManchesterMAN
Posts: 1040
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:00 pm

Airlines generally have no problems with you using cameras once at 10,000ft as an approved electronic device. With regards to takeoff and landing I usually wait until the FAs are seated before using mine. I figure if they don't see me use it they can't tell me not to so I'm not doing anything wrong. NW will be no different than any other carrier.
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2382
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting GBan (Reply 8):
Probably because the camera it is an electronic device. But if it is an old mechanical camera...

Why should an electronic camera cause any problems? It's not like a cell phone, which is banned because of its tendency to generate microwaves and other forms of radiation that may affect avionics systems....
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:18 pm

Once, on a LGW-MSP flight the Capt. came on and told about some glacier in Greenland, he said something about taking out your cameras and taking some pictures of it. Having said that, its still at the discretion of the flight crew.
Yay Pudding!
 
rpaillard
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:57 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
Probably because the camera it is an electronic device

I do have the same reflexion.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
It's not like a cell phone

That's right but cell phone are still forbiden for the whole trip! And to second my first idea, you have to switch off ANY electronic devic during landing and take off: DVD player, game boy, Walkman and so.

So the question is totaly legitime. I do personnaly think that it's forbiden and against the rules. That said, I'd used my camera in that situtation. Flying Delta in late March, I still don't know what I will do. I will love to shot ATL on landing and take off, and MCO to.

One can figure that there is a certain level of tolerance, considering the amount of picture that we could find here!
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
Mich
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:18 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:10 am

I took pics from the exit row window on a united 757 during takeoff at KOA. F/A sitting in front of me said nothing. Also pics on NW showing F/A how some takeoff pics came out after dl to laptop. Used electronic canon 20d, said nothing.

This whole electronic thing under 10,000 feet though has no merit. Whens last time the FAA determined a crash to be caused by a camcorder or cell phone on take off. Where is the incident report showing a cell phone caused a plane to be off 500 feet on ILS or way points were so far off they ran out of gas.?


Millions of flight hours a year yet all the pics on a.net and videos on flight350.com and curiously no problems..
 
rpaillard
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:57 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:39 am

Well, I could understand that below certain flight levels it could be dangerous to handle electronic. It's not only a matter of wave spreading. In case of emergency, PAX must be ready to act fast regarding FA directions.

For the Cell Phone concern, it could be an issue if dozen of hungry/angry cells phone looks at the same time for radio signal. It will spread a huge quantity of radio wave at the same time. Do not forget that recent phone (3G) could send and receive at a pretty high level.
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Mich (Reply 13):
Whens last time the FAA determined a crash to be caused by a camcorder or cell phone on take off.

Does that make it any less illegal? It is against the law that is the bottom line.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 15):
It is against the law that is the bottom line.

FCC regulation on the cell phone in flight,yes, not FAA. When the announcement is made, the terminalogy is "Federal regulations prohibit...."
which includes the FCC, too.
This was explained to me by a lead F/A on a NW trip a few months ago.

There is NO LAW on using a camera on board an airliner.
There are a lot of people including cops an airline employees that think so, but there is not.

safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:04 am

Just a guess perhaps it's just that the dont want a lot of cameras, or anything else that was hand held, flying loose in the cabin during a rough landing or worse situation.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 9):
I figure if they don't see me use it they can't tell me not to so I'm not doing anything wrong.

Oh OK. That makes it fine  Yeah sure

Another example where A.netters, those that SHOULD know better, deliberately break FAA regulations and tell others how to do it (and that it's ok)

We can argue for years about whether it can cause interference or not - that is irrelevant - it's an electronic device.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:15 am

Just a guess perhaps it's just that the dont want a lot of cameras, or anything else that was hand held, flying loose in the cabin during a rough landing or worse situation. As for laws IsItSafenow is right as far as I know. Yes, I use my digital and film cam all the time inflight and have only been told not to except in other less developed or military controled countries.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
ManchesterMAN
Posts: 1040
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 18):
Oh OK. That makes it fine

Another example where A.netters, those that SHOULD know better, deliberately break FAA regulations and tell others how to do it (and that it's ok)

We can argue for years about whether it can cause interference or not - that is irrelevant - it's an electronic device.

I do know better, I know that the only reason my camera might not be allowed on take off and landing is in case it flies out of my hand and injures another pax. That's why I keep a vice like grip with the strap wraped firmly round my hand so it wouldn't go anywhere in the event of an incident even if I lost my grip.

You are a member of this forum and presumably enjoy the excellent photos on this site -some of the best of which (IMO) are those taken through the window on t/o and landing. It really isn't such a big deal. I would if asked by a crew member to put my camera away, do it but until then I'll plede ignorance.

There are many more serious regulations broken on pretty much every flight to moan about than cameras such as standing when the seatbelt sign is on. That is disobeying crew orders. Using a camera isn't until someone tells me not to.
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
calpilot
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 1999 5:16 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 15):
Does that make it any less illegal? It is against the law that is the bottom line.

No it is not... "d'uh"
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 20):
That is disobeying crew orders. Using a camera isn't until someone tells me not to.

Firstly, on all flights (in the US anyway), the crew tell you specifically to turn off all electronic devices - so you are clearly "disobeying crew orders".

Secondly, it doesn't matter jot even if they didn't tell you (but they do) - it's a federal regulation.

Sorry, but I really have no time for people, especially A.netters, who blatantly disobey regulations, and advise other folks that it's OK "as long as you don't get caught"

Screw the photos. Sure they're nice....so that makes it OK  Yeah sure

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Calpilot (Reply 21):
No it is not... "d'uh"

check out 121.306 as well as the fact that it is illegal to disobey crew orders. Every flight has the spiel at the beginning that PED's are not to be used below 10,000 feet. That is a crew order. End of Story.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 22):
Firstly, on all flights (in the US anyway), the crew tell you specifically to turn off all electronic devices - so you are clearly "disobeying crew orders".

yes but is a disposable camera considered an "electronic device"?
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:51 am

this is taken directly from the United Airlines website, no where does it even mention cameras

"Certain electronic devices may not be used on our planes for safety reasons. Such devices may cause electromagnetic interference with cockpit navigation or communications systems during ground operations and while the aircraft is flying below 10,000 feet. However, when an aircraft is traveling above 10,000 feet (normally about ten minutes after takeoff), passengers can use many of the devices listed.

Hearing aids, heart pacemakers, and watches are acceptable at all times.

These electronic devices can be used in the cabin, but may not be used during takeoff and landing:
Calculators
Handheld computer games
Shavers
Portable CD and tape players
Laptop computers/accessory printers/tape drives
Portable VCRs/video players
These electronic devices cannot be used on the airplane at any time:
Cellular phones (cellular phones maybe used on the plane at the gate before the aircraft door is closed or at captain's discretion when the plane is away from the gate and on the ground)
Televisions
AM/FM transmitters-receivers
Remote-controlled toys"

I wonder if other airlines have similar info on their webisite, or if they consider a camera to be an electronic device
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 25):
I wonder if other airlines have similar info on their webisite, or if they consider a camera to be an electronic device

unless it is an old manual wind camera then yes it is a PED.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:51 am

Hate to break it to you, but just talked to a guy who flies some birds for NW, Camera's are not forbidden on takeoff. Only high powered older camcorders unless otherwise approved.
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:54 am

I didn't mean to start a 'war' on here, and I completely agree that any loose devise during take off, landing or turbulence can become a projectile. So, I'll ask my question a different way -- is it acceptable to use a digital or other camera (not a disposable one) on the ground, and then again in the air?
 
Kovi17
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:11 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:15 am

wow i didnt know that cameras werent allowed on takeoff. I was looking at the list up top posted by CIDflyer and i dont see mp3 players on the list are those not allowed as well?
We dont worry about small things like that...
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 27):
Hate to break it to you, but just talked to a guy who flies some birds for NW, Camera's are not forbidden on takeoff.

Well that ends it, one pilot for NW says that it isnt a problem.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 30):
Well that ends it, one pilot for NW says that it isnt a problem.

...and actually one pilot can decide it's OK, since the FAR allows this.

It would be against the recommendations of the FAA, and they might want to tell the F/A's to say "turn all electronic devices off, except for cameras, unless they are the older high-powered camcorders"

The pilot might want to read the FAA Advisory Circular on this matter...especially relating to interference during critical flight phases, distraction during safety announcements, and consistency (i.e. allow one device and you're asking for trouble - therefore don't allow any).


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 31):
..and actually one pilot can decide it's OK, since the FAR allows this.

this i know, however that would be only for a flight under his discretion (and I wouldn't agree with it not only because of the Electrical interference but the flying object hazard as well), my recommendation to the thread starter would be to ask the flight crew when you are boarding, if they say yes then go ahead and do it. If they say no, don't be sneaky about it just accept it and move on and wait until you are above 10,000 to shoot.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:05 pm

A book can be a flying hazard, too!  Wink

Seriously, though, on Delta I have been given pretty consistent answers about camera use during take-off and landing --- still cameras are OK, but video cameras are not.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:07 pm

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/muemat26/FinlandTrip032.jpg
You shouldn't have any problems, I was snapping away on the way to and from AMS last summer...
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:31 pm

I had a Northwest flight attendant notice my digital camera when we were sitting on the ground in FAI, and she advised me to try and get some pictures during departure because the scenery around FAI is beautiful at low altitude! When I asked her if it was considered an electronic device, she said that in theory it is, but that most airlines don't have a problem with it being used turing T/O and landing because, though it could cause a distraction in the event of an emergency, it could also document a related cause or factor that lead to the incident at hand!

I guess it really goes two ways on the issue..

JBLU
 
D L X
Posts: 11655
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
It's not like a cell phone, which is banned because of its tendency to generate microwaves and other forms of radiation that may affect avionics systems....

All electronics emit radiation, and all radiation affects other electrical systems. And it's not just microwaves that cause interference - any electromagnetic wave will cause interference in a wire. In fact, you probably know these long wires by the word "antenna," which is all about collecting the interference.

Quoting Mich (Reply 13):
This whole electronic thing under 10,000 feet though has no merit.

Probably also true. But the cell phone issue is for real. Try holding a GSM cell phone (which is the most common type in the USA now) next to a speaker and make a call. You will hear the radiation as the speaker turns it into sound due to interference. Yeah... you probably don't want that thing on your airplane.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:20 pm

I took this photo when I was flying LHR-JFK.........unfortunately, I was sitting right in front of an F/A (emergency exit row) and the F/A told me to turn my camera off......she told me that photos aren't allowed in the plane...

while she was correct about AA's policy of not taking photos while taxiing and taking off, landing, she was incorrect of AA's policy of not taking photos while in flight, or at the terminal...


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jacobin777

"Up the Irons!"
 
AvFan4ever
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:07 pm

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 36):
All electronics emit radiation, and all radiation affects other electrical systems. And it's not just microwaves that cause interference - any electromagnetic wave will cause interference in a wire.

Exactly right.

Here's the scoop about using PEDs according my EMI contacts within a large airframe OEM. A few dozen electronic devices in simultaneous operation (laptop PCs, digital cameras, camcorders, MP3 players, etc.) do not have a appreciable (or even measurable) effect on aircraft systems. However, proving that aircraft systems cannot be affected by current and future types of electronic devices is not a certification requirement.

It is impossible to know when a single device or combination of devices will hit the market that MAY affect aircraft systems, so by far the easiest method of eliminating the problem is to simply ban them from being used during the period of most critical flight deck activity, which is below 10,000 feet.

From a crew standpoint, banning the use of all electronic devices eliminates the problem (and arguments with pax) of determining which devices are actually transmitters.
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Cameras On NW

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting Delta-flyer (Reply 33):
Seriously, though, on Delta I have been given pretty consistent answers about camera use during take-off and landing --- still cameras are OK, but video cameras are not.

The consistent answer should be that NO electronic devices can be used during take-off/landing. There is little difference between a digital camera and a camcorder...in fact my digital camera can take digital video!

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 35):
When I asked her if it was considered an electronic device, she said that in theory it is, but that most airlines don't have a problem with it being used turing T/O and landing because, though it could cause a distraction in the event of an emergency, it could also document a related cause or factor that lead to the incident at hand!

So she knows it's against regulations and gave you a very poor reason why it's OK!

Quoting AvFan4ever (Reply 38):
It is impossible to know when a single device or combination of devices will hit the market that MAY affect aircraft systems, so by far the easiest method of eliminating the problem is to simply ban them from being used during the period of most critical flight deck activity, which is below 10,000 feet.

Perfect answer.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!

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