intothinair
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:05 pm

F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:59 pm

After reading a very interesting article on "Manager" a german magazine about First class, I read some interesting facts. whilst in the 1993s, 11% of all passengers still flew F class, in 1998, about 5% today it is only about 2.5%. However Jan-Jun 2005 compared to 2004, LH showed a 20% increase in F class bookings, and on top of that their next 7 A346 will be equipped with F class again, so they're F class demand seems to be rising again finally. Are other carriers experiencing this too, I know virtually all airlines have cut back on F class seats over the last 10 years, or have completely gotten rid of it, and still are, eg. Air New Zeland, Royal Brunei, so are we seeing a rise in F class demand again for some airlines? or is this just LH? what about other premium carriers, BA, AF, SQ, CX etc.? does anyone have any facts about other airlines, specific numbers? any information would be greatly appreciated.

cheers, Konstantin G.
 
Lp0815
Posts: 206
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:15 pm

Could be just a shift of current F-class customers away from other airlines such as AF, BA to LH maybe because of their new F-Class Terminal in FRA.

On the other hand: I understand that LH is a bout to revamp their F-Class and will bring it out with the A-380.
So, will they receive their A 346 after receiving the 380, thus by this also sporting the new F-Class?
Time waits for nobody
 
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Stitch
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:27 am

I have heard a number of complaints from those who have flown it concerning how uncomfortable LH's new Business Class seats are to sleep in, so perhaps more folks are choosing First Class (where offered) to get a good night's sleep?
 
OHLHD
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:40 am

A rise in demand should be closely monitored with the rise of yield!

If a airline offers their First Class Seat at a cheaper fare than 3 years ago, which also comes close to a price of a Business Class seat, it is simply a PR-Number .
 
ikramerica
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
I have heard a number of complaints from those who have flown it concerning how uncomfortable LH's new Business Class seats are to sleep in, so perhaps more folks are choosing First Class (where offered) to get a good night's sleep?

So that's the real strategy behind skybed/spacebed sloped flat garbage? make it so uncomfortable that those with the funds who were 'slumming it' will break down and return to F?

Nobody can ever convince me that a sloped flat bed is more desirable than a true cradle seat (which sinks the butt as it raises the legs to).
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
intothinair
Posts: 391
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:44 pm

does anyone have any facts to say that F class demand is rising or still falling?
any answers would be greatly appreciated

cheers, Konstantin G.
 
Lp0815
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:16 pm

Difficult to get that sort of data as generally IATA would be probably the only institution to have this sort of comparison.
Working for an airline myself, I can tell you about my airline and yes, demand has been rising over the past months, even for the second year straight.

In what way also other airlines see this rise: no idea, sorry.
Time waits for nobody
 
Qantas744er
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:52 pm

Hey, during christmas I was going to New York and Aspen with my dad, with LH from MUC to FRA to DEN to ASE and then on the way back ASE-DEN-LGA-JFK-MUC on the way to the US we had a 4 hours stop over in FRA for our flight to DEN, my father fly`s launghaul every second day for Business, so last year in November he finally got his HON card from LH, giving him acces to the F terminal in FRA. On Our flight to DEN on a A 340-600 there was no F.
But on the flight back from JFK to MUC we sat in F and im telling you it was packed! The Plane was a A330-300 D-AIKC and C wasnt even full! For these next few months the flight to DEN will be operated by a 744 again showing demand for more F on this route.

Cheers Leo
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
intothinair
Posts: 391
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 6):
Working for an airline myself, I can tell you about my airline and yes, demand has been rising over the past months, even for the second year straight.

Are you reffering to SQ here, or is this classified  Wink

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 7):
The Plane was a A330-300 D-AIKC and C wasnt even full! For these next few months the flight to DEN will be operated by a 744 again showing demand for more F on this route.

WOW, we are getting some positive feedback on F class demand here
Any further information would be appreciated

cheers, Konstantin G.
 
anstar
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 5):
does anyone have any facts to say that F class demand is rising or still falling?
any answers would be greatly appreciated

cheers, Konstantin G.

Qantas have also recently reconfigured 2 of their 2 class 747's back into a 3 Class configuration. So I guess thats a small increase in F seats for them also.
 
Lp0815
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 8):
Are you reffering to SQ here, or is this classified

not classified: LH
Time waits for nobody
 
Qantas744er
Posts: 1162
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:51 am

I have noticed that many people flying LH in C are pretty pissed off with the Rockwell Collins AVOD same goes for me, since they introduced it, its not fully operational yet, and the 4th patch for the programm is out, and i hope LH will be able to fix their problems, because often the Seats in C dont even work properly, , and 2 weeks ago my dad came from NRT to MUC, the flight was delayed due to a problem with the F and C electronic commands on the plane, the plane was a A340-300.

Cheers leo
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
knoxibus
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:59 am

Just did a return CDG-LAX last week on AFR 777-200ER.

Was upgraded to F on the inbound and we were 5 in a 12 seats zone (note: 2 flights this day, I took the first one).

Hoped to get upgraded on the outbound thanks to my FF status, but even the F class was packed, I would say 11 seats out of 12 were taken. That was on a Thursday!
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
aerosol
Posts: 497
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RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:59 am

The problem with First is that hardly anybody pays full price. People do not pay cash and use their miles instead.
 
CptGermany
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:50 am

RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
I have heard a number of complaints from those who have flown it concerning how uncomfortable LH's new Business Class seats are to sleep in, so perhaps more folks are choosing First Class (where offered) to get a good night's sleep?

First, the new C class seats are substantially more comfortable than the old C seats. I fly LH C class twice a years between FRA and ATL on A343, and I usually have a good experience. The Rockwell-Collins AVOD system does require some improvements however.

Second, I highly doubt that there is a substantial amount of people who actually buy F instead of C now due to uncomfortable C seats. The price difference between the two classes is substantial.

I have flown F class on LH 744 once two years ago from FRA to MIA and I was impressed by the quality of the food. It is like a gourmet restaurent in the sky. However, the amount of food I thought was inferior to C class...truly gourmet like. I also enjoyed the window in the lavatories.

Finally, is LH the only carrier who has F class on the upper deck of their 744s instead of the nose section like most carriers.
 
fbgdavidson
Posts: 3563
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:54 am

I think LH are doing well in First because they have genuinely invested a fair amount of cash into the product. Well the FCT anyway  Wink

Quoting Aerosol (Reply 13):
The problem with First is that hardly anybody pays full price. People do not pay cash and use their miles instead.

I think demand is probably dropping on some respects on BA. They often have a promo whereby you pay full J and get a one way upgrade to First.

My last few flights on BA, First has been 14/14, 14/14, 0/14, 0/14, 9/14. Having said that one occassion OLCI showed the F cabin to have five seats empty but then at pushback it was full.

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 7):
my father fly`s launghaul every second day for Business

That is unfortunate.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
intothinair
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:05 pm

RE: F Class Demand LH On The Rise, Are Others As Well?

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:33 pm

thanks for all the feedback....any more info would be great!

cheers, Konstantin G.

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