FATFlyer
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FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:50 am

Fresno, which to many has seemed like the turboprop capital of the US in the last 10 years, will see several flights added on mainline equipment in April.

As Ca2ohHP pointed out last month, US/HP will upgrade 1 FAT-LAS flight from a CRJ-900 to an A319 in April. The 2nd FAT-LAS will remain a CRJ-900 for the time being.

Mexicana is on track to start flights on FAT-GDL on April 1 using an A318. I had a chance to drive by FAT this weekend and the FIS exterior looks complete, it looks like only interior work left to finish.

Also, UAX/Skywest is going from 3 to 4 Brasilia flights on FAT-LAS in April. That LAS route is getting busy with UAX, G4 and US all competing.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:01 am

By the way, FAT finished 2005 with an increase of 6.5% more passengers than in 2004.

December 2005 was 15% more passengers than December 2004.

With those growth rates I expect FAT will be seeing more equipment upgrades and flights added over the next year.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QQFLYER28
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 1):

What a great thing to see for FAT. I am glad they are seeing decent sequential growth in passenger boarded. I cannot remember the last time FAT had a mainline upgade.
 
Cory6188
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:36 am

Whatever happened to IAH-FAT on COEx? I thought that a while back, it was essentially a done deal?
 
copaair737
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:14 am

This is awesome, an A319 on the FAT-LAS route is something I didn't see coming, but it is nice to have. The CR9's aren't that bad, but seeing an A319 is better than seeing just another version of the Bombardier jets we see everyday there. I would have figured we would see PHX-FAT go mainline before LAS-FAT did.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
flyboy80
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:37 am

was FAT a mesa station, or HP? Does HP (US) have any contracts that would allow mesa to ground handle a mainline jet, or a number of mainline jets before before having to change the station to mainline?
 
exFATboy
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:38 am

This is great news for FAT, now if we can get the F9 flights upgraded....

Does G4 get enough hotel/air package sales to keep the 4x/week service competitive? It'd be a shame to see G4 leave what was once its HQ city.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
Whatever happened to IAH-FAT on COEx?

That seems to have been pushed back for the time being. Personally with MX starting I think it would be a good time for COEx to also start and piggyback on the publicity about using FAT for flights to Mexico. COEx could push the number of connections to Mexico at IAH.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 4):
I would have figured we would see PHX-FAT go mainline before LAS-FAT did.

I did too but it may have been a combination of demand plus aircraft scheduling. LAS is a shorter flight than PHX.

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 5):
was FAT a mesa station, or HP?

It is a Mesa station and I assume it will remain for the time being since this is only 1 flight out of 7.

Interestingly, I got a copy of the Mesa codeshare agreement with HP a few years ago. It said Fresno and several other cities would be Mesa exclusively. So either that agreement ended or was changed with the merger. Hopefully demand will lead to more upgrades on LAS and/or PHX.

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 6):
Does G4 get enough hotel/air package sales to keep the 4x/week service competitive?

I hope so. G4 saw load factors at FAT below 70% for much of the last half of 2005. I'm not sure what happened. Hopefully it wasn't a long term problem.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
avconsultant
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:56 pm

Sounds like FAT will go from a turboprop market to an Airbus market. Interesting.
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:24 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 8):
Sounds like FAT will go from a turboprop market to an Airbus market. Interesting.

Not so fast. If anything FAT has been an MD-80 market with AA and G4. AA has been MD-80's since the mid 1990's ( 727's prior to that, since 6/90).

For sure more mainline service enhances the appeal of FAT and we are all glad for that. Is this 319 service to LAS a temporary thing or at least planned to be permanant?

Perhaps someday we will have a 100 seater flight to ORD from FAT for alternative connections to the Great Lakes/ Northeast.
 
copaair737
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:37 pm

FATFlyer- If ORD-FAT were to start, who would you think would start it--AA or UA? I'd bet AA, because they already have mainline at FAT. UA would be more of a longshot, unless they put one of their new Embraer jets on it.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 9):
Is this 319 service to LAS a temporary thing or at least planned to be permanant?

Currently it shows in the schedule through the end of the year. I would not be surprised to see it stay if the revenue supports it since a number of the CR9s seem to be finding a home in the east these days.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 10):
If ORD-FAT were to start, who would you think would start it--AA or UA? I'd bet AA, because they already have mainline at FAT.

I'd tend to agree. But you never know what kind of move UA might make if they thought they needed to do something competitive against AA or F9 or US.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:07 pm

This is just great! I love hearing this about FAT. Our little airport haha. The FAT-ORD talk, now I think that AA might start this up before UA does. AA would bring in a MD and UA would eventually bring in a A319 I would assume. Whoever does it first would keep it longer I believe. UA might be able to do it 3x or 4x? Do you think that AS would then take a flight from FAT-SEA on an 737? I hear quite a few people love to travel to SEA such as myself  Smile Lastly, could we then be seeing people from Merced, CA down to Bakersfield, CA traveling out of FAT instead of SMF, SFO, LAX? I am affraid that once something gets started that WN might come in and kick everyone back out  footinmouth 
Don't Tread On Me!
 
wedgetail737
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:20 pm

I think FAT could sustain a 737-700 during the summer season at minimum. But I think AS is pretty strapped for airplanes at the moment...and probably for a little while since they will be getting rid of their MD-80's faster than anticipated.
 
Coronado990
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:56 am

Someday, someone will have to explain to me why the SAN-FAT market only has 19 PAX per day. A metro area of 3.2 million to a metro area of almost 1 million over 300 miles apart and in the same state. Also, San Diego is also a tourist destination. My neighbor is from Fresno and attends SDSU. She must drive the stretch every break. There is no direct rail link. Driving thru L.A.'s 70 miles of urban traffic stinks.

I noticed SAN-CRW gets 19 PAX a day. Now that I can understand. But SAN-FAT only getting 19 PAX does not seem right to me. Somebody is missing the boat.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
PanAm747
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:03 am

Quote:
This is just great! I love hearing this about FAT. Our little airport haha

In the eyes of someone who grew up near BFL, your "little" airport is HUGE compared to the miniscule services available at Bakersfield! You've got two airlines competing (with RJ's) to AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN, AND you've got mainline equipment!!

Quote:
Someday, someone will have to explain to me why the SAN-FAT market only has 19 PAX per day. A metro area of 3.2 million to a metro area of almost 1 million over 300 miles apart and in the same state. Also, San Diego is also a tourist destination. My neighbor is from Fresno and attends SDSU. She must drive the stretch every break. There is no direct rail link. Driving thru L.A.'s 70 miles of urban traffic stinks.

My kingdom for ANY kind of service from San Diego to the central valley that does NOT go through Los Angeles!!

San Diego to Bakersfield:

Driving: I have made it in 3 hours breaking every known traffic law (as well as a few laws of physics). It once took me seven hours in the rain to get from San Clemente to Santa Clarita - about 70 miles.

Amtrak: A breathtaking but slow ride along the Pacific coast makes San Diego to Los Angeles take just under 3 hours scheduled time. Then one transfers to a bus to Bakersfield (over the mountains - the track is not double-lined, so Amtrak will not operate on it) and add another two hours.

United Express: The only airline to fly LAX-BFL. One MUST transfer at LAX to get to Bakersfield. Figure a round-trip cost of $400.

And that's just to Bakersfield. Add another two-three hours travelling time to Fresno, and you get truly a very isolated region within one of the largest economies on the planet.

It makes no sense to me, either.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
QQFLYER28
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):

I would have to agree that the area, to a certain degree, has been air transportation isolated. I think though, as current mainline markets are becoming saturated, airlines are searching for new pots of highly profitible revenue. Areas like FAT and BFL will benifit from this trend in my IMO, as airlines begin to see the light.
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 14):
I noticed SAN-CRW gets 19 PAX a day. Now that I can understand. But SAN-FAT only getting 19 PAX does not seem right to me. Somebody is missing the boat.

I can't figure it out either, especially when you consider SJC has 25 daily non stops to SAN (8 AA, 7 Alaska , 10 WN )

My Guess is:

1. People in Fresno are accostomed to driving to LAX to fly, so they just figure its not that much further to San Diego and drive instead of fly.

2. The current airlines are charging top dollar out of FAT. Maybe they need WN to come in and shake things up a little with $29 one way fares to San Diego, to build up the market.

FAT is a lot like SJC, they both get no respect. Only Fresno has a better college football team.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 14):
I noticed SAN-CRW gets 19 PAX a day. Now that I can understand. But SAN-FAT only getting 19 PAX does not seem right to me. Somebody is missing the boat.

I don't believe the data is as accurate as people like to think.

I understand not all regional data gets reported on the O&D and T-100 form. Aircraft under 60 seats are exempt from reporting. So on a route like FAT-SAN where UAX would connect a pax in LAX from a turboprop to a turboprop the data may be missing.

If you look at all of the data for FAT, UA is listed as having the largest market share in only a few destination markets out of FAT. Yet they carry 45% of Fresno passengers. So the problem to me lies with the UAX numbers.

The Bureau of Transportation Statistics last year was working on changing the reporting rules. In its comments about the change it said, "Exemptions from reporting, granted in the 1960s, have become a major problem in today's O&D Survey. For example, Carriers flying planes with 60 or fewer seats are exempt from reporting. As such, passengers whose entire itineraries are flown on smaller Carriers will not be reported, yet their participation in the air transportation system is critical. Similarly, code-share agreements between large and small Carriers were non-existent when the current O&D Survey was designed. Today, Carriers of all sizes are connected to a global air transportation system through global alliances and international ticket agreements. This intertwining of service adds complexity and increases the potential for error when reporting Ticketed Itineraries."

So don't take FAT numbers from the Consumer Air Fare report or faremeasure.com as accurate.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Coronado990
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 18):
If you look at all of the data for FAT, UA is listed as having the largest market share in only a few destination markets out of FAT. Yet they carry 45% of Fresno passengers. So the problem to me lies with the UAX numbers

Yes, I see that. It shows that AA is the largest carrier from FAT to LAX and FAT to SAN...49 and 19 PAX respectively. On top of that SAN-LAX shows 82 PAX a day, again AA being the largest carrier.

I would have thought that UAX would have been the bigger player in the FAT-LAX-SAN corridor. So the problem is that only AA reports numbers in these markets? However, I do see UA being the biggest airline between ACV and SAN at 27 PAX a day! That is on UAX. Wow! More people from SAN to Eureka then Fresno. Huh...
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 19):
However, I do see UA being the biggest airline between ACV and SAN at 27 PAX a day! That is on UAX. Wow! More people from SAN to Eureka then Fresno. Huh...

ACV-SAN would be the result of passengers out of SAN on mainline equipment to SFO, so there are more people vs FAT because the ACV pax are being counted by UA instead of UAX.

AA may operate a little differently since they own AmEagle.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
N1120A
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):
(over the mountains - the track is not double-lined, so Amtrak will not operate on it)

Actually, they did operate the Coast Starlight over it during some track works last year.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PanAm747
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:58 am

Quote:
Actually, they did operate the Coast Starlight over it during some track works last year.

To clarify, I meant the railroad tracks running from Los Angeles to Lancaster, Palmdale, Mojave, Tehachapi, and then into Bakersfield. The section of track between Bakersfield and Tehachapi is single track in places, and Amtrak will not run a train on a single line stretch. Big grin
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
klwright69
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:24 am

Yes, yes, with COex going to BFL, they need to add FAT. I bet it is right around the corner.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 22):
The section of track between Bakersfield and Tehachapi is single track in places, and Amtrak will not run a train on a single line stretch. 

Sure they will. Most of the line between Oakland and Bakersfield is single-track. Most of the former Rio Grande through Colorado is single-tracked... etc. etc.

The reason they don't run the San Joaquins through the Tehachapi line is simple: It's excruciatingly slow and congested with freight traffic. Much faster to put the pax on buses at Bakersfield.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 17):
2. The current airlines are charging top dollar out of FAT. Maybe they need WN to come in and shake things up a little with $29 one way fares to San Diego, to build up the market.

That would just kill all traffic out of FAT. No one would bother flying anything but WN then at that price. It is rediculous. If it is WN, I say take the flight longer somewhere else. If it goes to LAS then HP, UAX, Allegiant are out of the market. If it goes to PHX then HP is out of that market. If WN came in it would have to go to Dallas-Love then. That is just my opinion. FAT needs an ORD flight and another Mexico flight would be awesome. A lot of travel would come out of Tijiuana and Puerto Vallarta in my little mind  Smile
Don't Tread On Me!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:48 pm

Until the recent change in their strategy (going to OAL's hubs), WN was giving FAT some serious consideration. I think now there are a number of cities that moved ahead in the line.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 26):
Until the recent change in their strategy (going to OAL's hubs), WN was giving FAT some serious consideration. I think now there are a number of cities that moved ahead in the line.

Dont you think this will kill travel out of FAT? No compotition then am I correct?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
b737100
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:30 pm

At one time, PSA flew SAN/FAT with a 727-100. Don't know if it was a thru flight.Regards,Will
Boeing 737 sunjet service
 
aeroman62
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:12 pm

UA at one time or another flew FAT-LAX, FAT-SFO, FAT-DEN, and I believe even FAT-ORD. I have old OAG's that show FAT-DEN on a D8S, and SFO-FAT on a DC8, in addition to the 727's and 737's. PS did fly a weekend FAT-SAN service at one time, in general though their valley routings in the 70's were SFO-SCK-FAT-LAX and back, at first with 737's, then with 72S. In the 80's they flew FAT-LAX with 146's, I think FAT survived the US acquisition, but then was dumped along with most of the intrastate CA services when US couldn't make money on it. RW also served FAT, I believe on a SMF-FAT-LAS routing, with DC9's.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:28 pm

As I mentioned in a different thread, Morris Air used to fly to FAT with 733's. I believe they served OAK, SLC and LAX.
 
exFATboy
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 29):
UA at one time or another flew FAT-LAX, FAT-SFO, FAT-DEN, and I believe even FAT-ORD.

I'm not sure if UA flew FAT-ORD nonstop, but I seem to remember flying FAT-DEN-ORD back in the '70s. DC-8, if I remember right.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 29):
UA at one time or another flew FAT-LAX, FAT-SFO, FAT-DEN, and I believe even FAT-ORD

I dont think a FAT-ORD. I may be wrong. Not recient though

UAX
FAT-SFO
FAT-DEN
FAT-LAX
FAT-LAS (?)
AE
FAT-LAX
FAT-SAN
AA
FAT-DTW
F9
FAT-DEN (operated by QX)
QX
FAT-PDX
FAT-SEA
G4
FAT-LAS
HP
FAT-LAS
FAT-PHX

All of these are done with props or CRJ's. The only bigger bird to fly into FAT right now is the MD-83 I believe by AA. Correct me if I am wrong on any of this please.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 27):
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 26):
Until the recent change in their strategy (going to OAL's hubs), WN was giving FAT some serious consideration. I think now there are a number of cities that moved ahead in the line.

Dont you think this will kill travel out of FAT? No compotition then am I correct?

Why? A. If WN came it, chances are better than not that overall airport traffic would rise, benefitting all or most carriers there.
B. WN has entered many a market, and they have not "killed all the traffic."
However, unless they enlarged the ticketing/baggage areas a lot since I was there 2 years ago, I seriously doubt you'll see WN there any time soon.
And as a sidenote, I was amazed at how poorly designed the interior area was in the new section of the concourse at FAT. Whoever decided to put the restrooms and eatery right in the middle of everything instead of either side of the area where the escalators are is dumb ,IMO. The place should have a MUCH more open aid airy feel to it. The whole middle should have been left open so there would be a line of sight throughout the whole area. Would have made the place seem a bit bigger, I think. Oh well, too late now.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 32):
Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 29):
UA at one time or another flew FAT-LAX, FAT-SFO, FAT-DEN, and I believe even FAT-ORD

I dont think a FAT-ORD. I may be wrong. Not recient though

They mean in 1970's or 80's. But UA did not do a nonstop FAT-ORD.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 30):
As I mentioned in a different thread, Morris Air used to fly to FAT with 733's. I believe they served OAK, SLC and LAX.

Morris Air (KN) operated nonstops flights from Fresno ,one to OAK and one to LAX in July 1993. Then added an originating flight to OAK eff 9/7/93,ended the LAX flight 9/30/93, added two LAS n/s, cut to one 10/10/93, then down to 1 to LAS and 1 to OAK until their pullout 6/5/94.

Also, can't forget the fine airline known as PAcific Express that flew there with BAC1-11s. Those were some fine aircraft. When they departed from Boise , if there was no wind, you could follow their exhaust trail from 5 miles out back to the airport!

[Edited 2006-03-22 01:04:40]
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
exFATboy
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 32):
All of these are done with props or CRJ's. The only bigger bird to fly into FAT right now is the MD-83 I believe by AA. Correct me if I am wrong on any of this please.

The G4 services to LAS is mainline equipment - MD-80, not sure which variant.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 33):
And as a sidenote, I was amazed at how poorly designed the interior area was in the new section of the concourse at FAT. Whoever decided to put the restrooms and eatery right in the middle of everything instead of either side of the area where the escalators are is dumb ,IMO. The place should have a MUCH more open aid airy feel to it. The whole middle should have been left open so there would be a line of sight throughout the whole area. Would have made the place seem a bit bigger, I think. Oh well, too late now.

I have to agree - they should have left the centre open as much as possible. The terminal feels smaller than it actually is. It's still a fantastic improvement over the old one, though.
 
iowaman
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 34):
The G4 services to LAS is mainline equipment - MD-80, not sure which variant.

-83.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 25):
That would just kill all traffic out of FAT. No one would bother flying anything but WN then at that price. It is rediculous. If it is WN, I say take the flight longer somewhere else.

It might be similar to what happened at ISP, some carriers reduced service and even pulled out, however overall airport traffic went way up do to the lower fares.

Maybe FATFlyer has some ideas as to where WN's first 9-10 flights from FAT would reasonably work to. My guesses:

LAS: 3x
PHX: 2x
LAX: 2x
SAN: 1x or 2x
PDX with one stop to SEA: 1x
I would say MDW but RNO doesn't even have daily MDW service.

Would seem like a good start.
 
stirling
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 32):
AA
FAT-DTW

You must mean DFW.

Quoting B737100 (Reply 28):
At one time, PSA flew SAN/FAT with a 727-100

Yes they did, mid to late 70's, but only from Fr-Su.

One little known fact, PSA operated the 737, and this is what provided many of the early flights into FAT.
When US ended service to FAT, it was 4X to LAX.

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 29):
I have old OAG's that show FAT-DEN on a D8S, and SFO-FAT on a DC8

That I did not know!

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 35):
WN's first 9-10 flights from FAT would reasonably work to. My guesses:

LAS: 3x
PHX: 2x
LAX: 2x
SAN: 1x or 2x
PDX with one stop to SEA: 1x
I would say MDW.

I wouldn't leave out L.A. and the S.F. Bay.
In the Good Ol' Days, United operated 5 dailies to LAX and 6 to SFO.

So with that in mind, my fantasy schedule for WN out of FAT would be as such:
LAX: 3X
OAK: 3X
PHX: 2X
SLC: 2X

If they really wanted to get crazy, they could do nothing but LAX and OAK and still make the locals very happy.

Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 29):
RW also served FAT, I believe on a SMF-FAT-LAS routing, with DC9's.

Well, both flights originated SMF, then one went to LAS, the other to PHX. This was the last RW schedule.
But this is how RW began in FAT:

LAS: 1X
LAX: 4X
OAK: 1X
SFO: 4X
SJC: 1X
BFL: 2X
SCK: 1X

So, at one point in time, there were once up to 10 flights a a day, Mainline Jets, 737s and DC9s, and sometimes 727s, between FAT and both SFO and LAX....on United, PSA, Hughes, and Air California. Then later, Western/Delta and Pacific Express got into the game, plus dozens of small commuter/regional type carriers; which in my opinion have only combined to dilute the market for the mainliners...which in turn perpetuates a nasty trend we are stuck with today.

Worse part is to look at the population of Fresno today and then....where has all the airline service gone?

Speaking of Air California...they also ran FAT to both SFO and LAX, (4X and 3X daily) but also included SNA, OAK, ONT, and Lake Tahoe. Yep. Daily.

Makes me sick.
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j.mo
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:53 am

For those interested in spotting at FAT, there is currently a British registered BAE-146 parked near Mercury Air. It will be doing some air sampling work here for a few days. Today was the first day I saw it actually fly. Good looking plane with a Blue tail and AAM printed on it.

Jeremy
 
D L X
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:58 am

Still no jets from Frontier, huh? Interesting.
 
atcrick
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:59 am

No offense FATFlyer, but Fresno? Tell me the big reason for ANYBODY(other than G4 to fly there because half of the company lives there). Fresno is only respected because Bakersfield is just down the road. My best time in Fresno was at the Moose Lodge. Talk to me FATFlyer. Oh, Did you get your GR models yet?
natch!!
 
stirling
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 35):
I would say MDW but RNO doesn't even have daily MDW service.

WN is starting RNO-MDW soon, if it hasn't already started.
Check their routemap
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iowaman
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 40):
WN is starting RNO-MDW soon, if it hasn't already started.
Check their routemap

It is basically Saturday only, comes in from MDW on Friday night, goes out Saturday morning.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 36):
I wouldn't leave out L.A. and the S.F. Bay.
In the Good Ol' Days, United operated 5 dailies to LAX and 6 to SFO.

So with that in mind, my fantasy schedule for WN out of FAT would be as such:
LAX: 3X
OAK: 3X
PHX: 2X
SLC: 2X

LAS would be in there for sure, considering it's one of there largest stations and has a huge amount of connections.

[Edited 2006-03-22 03:54:29]
 
stirling
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 41):
LAS would be in there for sure, considering it's one of there largest stations and has a huge amount of connections

Then somebody else will have to go Buh-Bye..between G4, UA, and US.

But what am I talking about....WN isn't going to FAT....at least yet. crossfingers 
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SJCRRPAX
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:27 pm

I would think a good way to start service would be to take these following flights (there is only about 10 each of these every day, so no big deal to make a couple of them one stops) and stop off in Fresno. Oh yea, to start service I would paint one of the planes "DAWG RED", and put an ugly bulldog on it. Fresno would go crazy. I'd also (if I was in charge) make the FAT boys turn those planes in like 15 minutes. I would also suggest one stopping some SAC planes, but I think SAC is too easy of a drive from Fresno.

SJC- LAX
SJC - SAN
OAk - LAX
OAK - SAN
SAN - SJC
SAN - OAK
LAX - SJC
LAX - OAK
 
iowaman
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 42):
Then somebody else will have to go Buh-Bye..between G4, UA, and US.

G4 would be the first to go Buh-Bye probably, followed by UA.

[Edited 2006-03-22 04:33:41]
 
centralca
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:50 pm

Good to hear about the A319 upgrade. Is it the evening LAS flight (the one that leaves around 9pm) or an earlier one? I flew the route a few months ago and enjoyed the CRJ. About Mexicana, the flight will be a great asset to FAT, however I've seen the FIS facility and it's not much more than a prefab building. I think this possibility should have been considered when the new terminal was built, and I think its design really constrains further expansion without major reconstruction.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:23 pm

LOL, boy this has turned into an interesting conversation on what was a 2 week old thread.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 33):
However, unless they enlarged the ticketing/baggage areas a lot since I was there 2 years ago, I seriously doubt you'll see WN there any time soon.

The ticketing lobby was just partially remodeled, the "L" shape of the counters was removed and several new counters added. Construction starts soon on a centralized rental car operation. After that the baggage claim will be expanded/remodeled and more carousels added.

Under study is a complete remodel of the ticketing lobby. They are looking at more flexibility with the ticketing positions, allowing airlines to open at any position as needed. A little more info on the airport here:
http://www.newvalleytimes.com/Main.aspx?uc=ucArt7.1&type=1

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 33):
The whole middle should have been left open so there would be a line of sight throughout the whole area.

I agree. The plan had concessions on both sides of the escalator along with the center. They should have just used the areas next to the escalator.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 35):
Maybe FATFlyer has some ideas as to where WN's first 9-10 flights from FAT would reasonably work to.

My sources told me that LAX and PHX would be definite. OAK and LAS ranked next in priority. Those 4 would provide lots of connections. Other markets might include SAN, SLC, RNO, PDX, or SEA. Some gossip about ONT but it was limited.

Quoting ATCRick (Reply 39):
No offense FATFlyer, but Fresno? Tell me the big reason for ANYBODY(other than G4 to fly there because half of the company lives there).

LOL, actually WN said no to every airport who wanted to talk after 9/11. Everyone was shocked because FAT was the first airport they took a meeting with.

Why fly here? I don't take that personal, I understand what the image is, but some things might surprise people. So bear with me for a second.

Things that might bring people TO Fresno include the new PGA tournament starting in Oct 2007.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...lf/03/16/bc.sport.golf.pga.fresno/

Planning work is being done on a new track for NASCAR and other racing events. Add in new casinos by Harrahs and Station Casinos along with the expansions of the existing 5 casinos in the area, the $100 million from a sales tax approved for expansion of the local zoo, the new public aquarium, the growing (yes out of towners) tasting at local wineries and Allegiant may be looking at backhaul traffic TO FAT in a few years.  

Travel to Fresno is rapidly changing. Marriott is finally opening a full 4 star property this year south in Visalia and is looking in Fresno for a site. Hilton and others are also looking to build something besides their lower priced brands. So the hotel industry is seeing a different type of demand.

Why fly to Fresno? How about capturing the disposable income that the companies finally realized area residents have.

Retail is exploding here. Stores opening by Thanksgiving include Coach, Pottery Barn, Banana Republic, Coldwater Creek, J. Jill, White House/Black Market, Soma, Urban Outfitters, Anthropologie, Sephora, Bebe, Bebe Sport, P.F. Changs, Fleming's Steakhouse, and Z Gallerie. Cheesecake Factory opened 4 months ago and is performing better then most other locations. None of these would even look at Fresno 5 years ago, even 3 years ago.

Bass Pro and Cabelas are both in discussions about Fresno locations, we'll see who comes in first.

Heck they are even building new condos and townhouses in downtown Fresno. Who would have thought a couple of years ago that someone would live downtown.

Lots of changes in the area with plenty more not being made public yet. The area will be very different in 5 years.

**As far as the models, I haven't been to that office this week, been working at my other office and at home. I'll check on the models in the next few days.

Quoting CentralCA (Reply 45):
Is it the evening LAS flight (the one that leaves around 9pm) or an earlier one?

Its the 2:00 in the afternoon out of FAT.

Quoting CentralCA (Reply 45):
I've seen the FIS facility and it's not much more than a prefab building. I think this possibility should have been considered when the new terminal was built

Intentional decision to meet a 6 or 7 month timeline. The building will be ready to go April 1. San Jose did quite well with their modular FIS for years. Mexicana at Bakersfield was to also start 4/1 using their old terminal building. But construction delays and problems getting steel for expanding the old building means BFL-GDL can't start before this fall at the earliest.

FAT's concourse expansion originally was to include the FIS. But the airlines requested more office space on the first floor and since Mexicana hadn't come calling yet out went the FIS and in went airline offices.

[Edited 2006-03-22 07:29:54]

[Edited 2006-03-22 07:32:19]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:17 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 46):
Why fly to Fresno?

FATFlyer...you forgot Yosemity National Park! That is a HUGE attraction! Fresno is a booming area right now. Everyone is moving from the Bay Area to the valley. That means older people that are retired and going on vacations would now much rather fly out of FAT then drive back to SFO. Another reason why FATFlyer is because I hear there are talks about the Fresno Fuego minor league if you will soccer team possibly becoming professional.

Quoting D L X (Reply 38):
Still no jets from Frontier, huh? Interesting.

I believe I mentiond that Frontier is coming in but they are just used or being operated by Horizen. It still has the Frontier paint on it.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 33):
Why? A. If WN came it, chances are better than not that overall airport traffic would rise, benefitting all or most carriers there.

I dont think so. With the size that FAT is right now, if WN came in then I believe we will see HP gone (Assuming the PHX and LAS flights), AE gone (assuming the LAX flight). I dont think that QX would leave. To many people like the class of QX. I know that my parents and others are going on an Alaskan cruse and the airline of choise is QX. If WN came in, I would only want to see a FAT-MDW flight. If they did the SLC then Delta Connection is out the door.

G4 in my opinion will be out soon of FAT. HP to my knowledge is taking the passangers to LAS more so then G4.

Airlines still not in FAT: Continental out of IAH, NorthWest out of MSP or DTW. I was hopping back last year that Indy would bring a smaller hub to OAK and serve FAT  Sad haha I really enjoyed their service. (off the subject) I listed all of the airlines that are major carriers. I know that I left out Midwest, jetBlue, AirTran. I left them out because they will never come here.
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iowaman
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 47):
I dont think so. With the size that FAT is right now, if WN came in then I believe we will see HP gone (Assuming the PHX and LAS flights), AE gone (assuming the LAX flight).

What you have to figure is WN will more than replace all that with just a few 737's. Again as I said with ISP is they had some airlines leave but the lower fares have stimulated so much demand it's amazing.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 47):
G4 in my opinion will be out soon of FAT. HP to my knowledge is taking the passangers to LAS more so then G4.

Wouldn't surprise me. G4 just can not really compete with anyone, unless it's CRJ's or something minor (like LAS-COS), or if there is a lot of passengers to go around in an established market (such as NW on DSM-LAS which isn't daily but the O&D is there).
 
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lindy field
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RE: FAT - More Mainline Equipment And Flights In April

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:15 pm

I don't see Southwest coming to FAT in the very near future - I think they're more likely to take the opportunity to attack more fortress hubs like PHL and DEN, probably at the expense of Delta and Northwest.

I think the airline to grow at FAT should be Horizon. The Q-400 would work quite well on north-south hops through California, linking FAT with OAK and SAN, for example. Relatively cheap to operate and not so many seats to fill. Plus Horizon has quite a few on order.

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