LukasMako
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GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:09 pm

Why does BA uses engines from two manifacturers for their 777 fleet.

I think they ordered GE-90 orginally but the newer ones have Trent-800.

Why is that?

[Edited 2006-03-07 14:09:38]
 
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:22 pm

"Why"? It's a tangled web...

BA chose GE for their first 777s and ended up with 29 of them. (A couple of years ago two of the oldest ones were returned to Boeing so they now have 27.) The order came at the same time as GE bought BA's maintenance base in Cardiff. Both parties denied a connection but the rumours persisted that GE were making BA too good a deal to turn down.

A few years later BA ordered 16 more 777-200ERs but with a higher MTOW than the earlier GE-powered 777-200ERs. It was at this time that they switched to RR. It has been reported that BA had all manner of problems with their GE90s at first and this influenced the decision to switch to RR. And/or RR are BA's more 'traditional' supplier and they fought hard (and successfully) to displace GE. And/or BA had more confidence in RR's "bigger" version of the Trent than in GE's competing product.

In short, I don't know!  Smile
 
jayhup
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:22 pm

GE was looking for a launch customer for their -90's and BA was looking for someone to buy the overhaul facility in Cardiff so BA bought the -90's and GE bought the overhaul facility (and paid BA a premium from what I was told).

The -90's experienced problems in the very begining and when BA went to order more 777's they opted for the RR to be in line with the rest of the a/c at BA (757, 767, 744)...

JH
 
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:25 pm

Actually, the real reason is that Trents look better on the 777 than GE90s do...  duck 
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
Actually, the real reason is that Trents look better on the 777 than GE90s do...

Just cant agree with that mate.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:31 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
Just cant agree with that mate.

EVERYTHING looks better with Trents...  Wink
 
GEnxPower
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:52 pm

GE90's on 777 looks great (read better)! I especially like the bigger size, and the huge fan diameter. The titanium fan leading edge gives the engine a silver lining over the black composite blade, which I think is unique and a beauty. The lesser number of fan blades , and the extra "space' between each blade doesn't make the engine look clutterd and hidden. Just my thoughts!

PM :
Anyways, PM, how do you tell a 777 with Trent or GE90 from a distance without seeing the fan blades/hub markings? Size is one way I guess. The nacelles and inlets are pretty much the same. Care to share a few tips? Wanna share with us why you prefer Trent in terms of "looks"?
 
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting GEnxPower (Reply 6):
Anyways, PM, ... Wanna share with us why you prefer Trent in terms of "looks"?

It was a flippant comment more than anything but (a) I have shares in Rolls-Royce, (b) I think the GE90 has a "swollen" appearance that is unattractive, (c) I can't forgive BA for buying GE90s (and thereby losing RR the ANA contract) so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (d) I hate how GE are taking over the world so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (e) I just do, (f) the Trent doesn't look "swollen", and (g) I have shares in Rolls-Royce. I think that about sums it up.
 
krisyyz
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:20 pm

Some info on BA B777s,

B777-200A-GE 90-76B to Middle East/Gulf

B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B to N.America, Caribbean, Gulf

B777-200ER - RR Trent 895 to N.America, Asia


KrisYYZ

[Edited 2006-03-07 15:21:52]
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
Quoting GEnxPower (Reply 6):
Anyways, PM, ... Wanna share with us why you prefer Trent in terms of "looks"?

It was a flippant comment more than anything but (a) I have shares in Rolls-Royce, (b) I think the GE90 has a "swollen" appearance that is unattractive, (c) I can't forgive BA for buying GE90s (and thereby losing RR the ANA contract) so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (d) I hate how GE are taking over the world so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (e) I just do, (f) the Trent doesn't look "swollen", and (g) I have shares in Rolls-Royce. I think that about sums it up.

LOL!!!! Great post!! Big grin
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
LukasMako
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:52 pm

Quote:
Actually, the real reason is that Trents look better on the 777 than GE90s do...

Thank god beaty is still in the eye of the beholder ...  scratchchin 
 
Qantas744er
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:44 am

RR Just the best engines! Big grin

GE Not bad not Bad.... Smile

In the end its only a personal opinion again. I have been on ba 777´s with GE and with RR i preferred the RR sound when on T/O the pilot gave full thrust!

Cheers leo
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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:43 am

The GE's are way quieter. They give off a bass filled humm opposed to the high pitched painful noise of the RR engines
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Experimental
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 8):
Some info on BA B777s,

B777-200A-GE 90-76B to Middle East/Gulf

B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B to N.America, Caribbean, Gulf

B777-200ER - RR Trent 895 to N.America, Asia


Not entirely correct, IIRC the small bunch of "B777-200A-GE 90-76B" are based at LHR and are mainly used to "Secondary" US destinations, eg. PHL , BWI...


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All of the 777 based at LGW are "B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B" however some of these are at LHR. These are distinguishable by there "G-VII*" registrations, From LHR these are used to everywhere on occasion with the regular exception of the LHR-BAH-DOH, LHR-DXB, and LHR-AUH-MCT routes.


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The "B777-200ER - RR" are used from LHR to everywhere. These are distinguishable by there "G-YMM*" registrations. IIRC some of these have a couple more F seats hence there more common use to BAH, JFK, DXB...


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[Edited 2006-03-07 17:59:28]
 
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Experimental (Reply 13):
the two "B777-200A-GE 90-76B"

"Two"? BA still have three 777-200s with GE90-76B.

Quoting Experimental (Reply 13):
"B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B" ... are distinguishable by there "G-VII*" registrations

Actually, G-VIIP to VIIY have GE90-90B (i.e. not -85B).

Quoting Experimental (Reply 13):
some of these have a couple more F seats

Which ones? My understanding is that they all have 14F.
 
LukasMako
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:03 am

What is the difference between IGW and ER. Wasn't it called orginally IGW and then simply renamend ER?

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:03:49]

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:04:15]
 
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting LukasMako (Reply 15):
What is the difference between IGW and ER. Wasn't it called orginally IGW and then simply renamend ER?

That's my understanding too.
 
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting PM (Reply 14):
Which ones? My understanding is that they all have 14F.

Yes there are 3 aircraft with 17 First seats G-ZZZA/B/C.They are confirgured
17/48/24/127 and are three of the original five 777 delivered(the other 2 have been sold)They are normally used on the KWI/DXB/AUH/MCT routes but can turn up anywhere that does not required a long range aircraft.
These aircraft do not have long range crew rest areas.
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tigerotor77w
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:49 am

I think the 777 looks marvelous regardless of what engines are on her... but I'm a little biased toward that plane. Big grin
 
kappel
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
nd/or BA had more confidence in RR's "bigger" version of the Trent than in GE's competing product.

I also read that at the time GE didn't want to grow the engine any further, because of the huge development problems, but later with a new CEO changed that policy. (I believe I read that in the book "777, the technological marvel")

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
EVERYTHING looks better with Trents...

especially the a330. But that's a different topic  Wink
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am

Actually, part of the reason why the G-YMM* (-236ER) aircraft have RR engines is that when they were ordered BA cancelled orders for several 747-436s with RR RB211 engines. Picking the Trent on the newly ordered 777s was a way of avoiding paying penalties to RR for cancelling an engine order. The operational benefits also apply too though, as mentioned.

As for layouts:

G-ZZZA; ZB; ZC are, as has been said the three aircraft with a high First layout (17F 48J 24W 127M)

G-RAES; G-VIIA; IB; IC; ID; IE; IF; IG; IH; IJ; IK; IL; IM; IN; IS; IU; IV; IW; IX; IY are fitted with a standard layout (14F 48J 40W 122M). Of these IA-IG and IL are LGW based.

G-VIIO; IP; IR; IT are the LGW based leisure configured aircraft (40J 24W 219M).

G-YMMA; MB; MC; MD; ME; MF are the LHR based three-class aircraft (36J 24W 215M) that also have larger crew rest areas for longhaul (Used to PEK, etc).

G-YMMG; MH; MI; MJ; MK; ML; MM; MN; MO; MP are the LHR based four-class aircraft (13F 48J 32W 127M) that also have the larger crew rest areas (Used to PVG, etc).
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jacobin777
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:49 am

personally, I like both, the GE-powered and RR-powered BA's....both have a unique and distinctive sound to them..

.......and I'm hoping that BA will go with some 773's also.. Smile


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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:14 am

I honestly think the PW's look the best on the 777...both the -200 and the -300. Too bad it just wasn't that great of an engine. The GE is next in line for me. I just don't like the RR on the 777...or the 757 for that matter. The only airliner that ever looked and sounded great with RR for engines was the beloved Tristar...I miss that beauty...
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AA777223
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 8):
B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B to N.America, Caribbean, Gulf



Quoting LukasMako (Reply 15):
What is the difference between IGW and ER. Wasn't it called orginally IGW and then simply renamend ER?

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:03:49]

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:04:15]

I was under the same impression. I know that AA's 777s are also technically called IGWs, but they use trent 892s with 92,000 lbs of thrust wereas the GE-90s on the BA IGWs only have 85,000, which maybe insufficient for an ER rating. I had always thought they were the same just renamed, but you raise an interesting point. Anyone know how to answer.
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tigerotor77w
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:48 am

I was under the impression that the MTOW was different for the IGW and ER versions -- that the IGW was the original MTOW increase (to 632,000 pounds or thereabouts), but at the urging of certain carriers (AF? I think?), Boeing bumped it up to -200ER classification with a higher MTOW (656,000 pounds).

[Edited 2006-03-08 03:50:01]
 
jacobin777
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting Tigerotor77W (Reply 25):
I was under the impression that the MTOW was different for the IGW and ER versions -- that the IGW was the original MTOW increase (to 632,000 pounds or thereabouts), but at the urging of certain carriers (AF? I think?), Boeing bumped it up to -200ER classification with a higher MTOW (656,000 pounds).

The GE-powered GE90-85B IGW's have 84,700 lbs of thrust and the RR-powered Trent 895 ER's have 95,000 lbs of thrust..

the lowest rated 777 they have is the 777-200A...with GE-powered GE90-76B with 76,400 lbs of thrust..

hope that helps..... Smile
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AA777223
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 26):
The GE-powered GE90-85B IGW's have 84,700 lbs of thrust and the RR-powered Trent 895 ER's have 95,000 lbs of thrust..

the lowest rated 777 they have is the 777-200A...with GE-powered GE90-76B with 76,400 lbs of thrust..

hope that helps.....

Which of those are considered ERs and which are IGW's? I know the 76 lbs aircraft are just A models with no extra title.
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TinkerBelle
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (d) I hate how GE are taking over the world so I'm prejudiced against the GE90,

Somebody here said you can buy a GE engine at Walmart.  biggrin 

I like the high pitch noise the GE's make on takeoff roll.
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jacobin777
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RE: GE And RR On BA 777

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 27):
Which of those are considered ERs and which are IGW's? I know the 76 lbs aircraft are just A models with no extra title.

hmmm....not sure by what you meant......

but according to BA they call it the 777-200IGW and 777-200ER...

hopefully we'll see some GE-Powered 777-300ER's and Ge-Powered 747-8's in the fleet too.. pray 

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 28):
Somebody here said you can buy a GE engine at Walmart. biggrin

I like the high pitch noise the GE's make on takeoff roll.

they rock, but the "buzzsaw" sound of the RR-powered Trents are rock!!!
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