Boeing757/767
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AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:35 am

Gee, what a surprise. Now AC announces YYZ-SLC service the day after DL did. Plus, YYZ-SAN returns.

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnw/060307/e_aircan_expandusserv.html?.v=1
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flyyul
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:01 am

Good news!

I love San Diego (gotta love the weather there), can't wait to fly it!
 
aircanada014
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:09 am

It's nice to see AC coming back to San Diego service from YYZ. Also its nice to see a new city added from YYZ to SLC. I remember driving from LAX to SAN long time ago and we stayed there for several days. It was a lovely city to visit. I remember going to San Diego Seaworld too.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:17 am

Yipee!!! The one route at AC we've all been waiting to be reinstated. Only downfall, it's not on the former schedule which gave the crew a 34 hour layover there. Nonetheless--great news!!
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:19 am

Yesterday some of you AC fans said SLC would never be a market AC would look at since it lacks very many Star Alliance connections to the West Coast. But it appears Bob Milton has an ego on par with Jerry Grinstein, and now AC and DL are going head on over SLC service:
[http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1403074950&view=13213-0&Start=0] AC News Release [/url]
Why not code share outside of Star Alliance and SkyTeam? Alaska does it with DL in SLC, why not AC?
Perhaps AC is looking to lure some of SLC's people to YYZ for the wide range of connectins to Europe as an alternative to DL's network at NYC-JFK
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MAH4546
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:20 am

I doubt SLC-YYZ will last past the end of summer.
a.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:25 am

Do you really want to fly on a CRJ for 4.30 hrs? An MD90 is not exactly a plush aircraft but I'd take it in a heartbeat... and AC put their times within an hour or two of DL's.
 
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lindy field
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:25 am

Excellent to have Air Canada back in SAN this summer after a break of a couple years. Anyone know if Westjet will return too?

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B742
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter):
Plus, YYZ-SAN returns

Great to see AC back on the YYZ-SAN route  Smile

That means easy connections for me from Europe into SAN via Canada  Smile

Flights will be daily A319, it seems it will stay year round aswell  Smile

Rob!  wave 
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
I doubt SLC-YYZ will last past the end of summer.

Who knows. It might be Bob Milton's way of forcing an out of alliance code-share with DL similar to the one DL has with Alaska at SLC. Keep in mind DC/SkyWest serves west coast connections they don't always hit very well with UEX/SkyWest out of DEN.

[Edited 2006-03-07 23:35:58]
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sebring
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):
Yipee!!! The one route at AC we've all been waiting to be reinstated. Only downfall, it's not on the former schedule which gave the crew a 34 hour layover there. Nonetheless--great news!!

A 34-hour layover? I guess that's why they dropped it!
 
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:36 am

Can AC sell tickets from USA cities to Europe/Asia? Why would one want to? You'd have to clear customs/immigration in Canada and your European/Asian destination. Or does Air Canada have sterile (meaning no access outside the gate areas) for transfer pasengers??
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sebring
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
Do you really want to fly on a CRJ for 4.30 hrs? An MD90 is not exactly a plush aircraft but I'd take it in a heartbeat... and AC put their times within an hour or two of DL's.

The CRJ-705 has 34 inches of legroom in economy, no middle seat and IFE for every passenger. It's brand new, with leather seats. It's no CRJ-200, and it's more comfortable than any other airline's CRJ-700 or CRJ-900. I think it can give a ratty old MD90 a run, and considering most passengers will originate in Canada, AC brings its FF program into play.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
Can AC sell tickets from USA cities to Europe/Asia? Why would one want to? You'd have to clear customs/immigration in Canada and your European/Asian destination. Or does Air Canada have sterile (meaning no access outside the gate areas) for transfer pasengers??

There is sterile transfer, unlike the US, IIRC. In addition, you get to pre-clear when flying back to the US, making it even easier. And of course AC can sell USA-Europe/Asia. Why wouldn't they be able to?
a.
 
sebring
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
Can AC sell tickets from USA cities to Europe/Asia? Why would one want to? You'd have to clear customs/immigration in Canada and your European/Asian destination. Or does Air Canada have sterile (meaning no access outside the gate areas) for transfer pasengers??

Canada does not have sterile transit clearance yet, though it will be in place by early 2007 at YYZ. However, baggage will be ticketed right through to final destination. Secondly, AC can sell sixth freedom fares in the US market, and it does. Eastbound, it can offer a very good connection to most European points, plus Tel Aviv and Delhi. With a 75-seat flight once a day, even a handful of sixth freedom passengers will make a significant difference
 
aircanada014
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 am

I think AC will do well with SLC year round. Who knows if the route does well maybe few months later AC might offer SLC to YYC and or YVR. What do you think?
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):
Great to see AC back on the YYZ-SAN route

That means easy connections for me from Europe into SAN via Canada

The SAN-YYZ flight gets in pretty late. (around 1940) Not much connex opps for Europe. maybe a late YYZ-LHR flight?
 
chrisa330
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 16):
The SAN-YYZ flight gets in pretty late. (around 1940) Not much connex opps for Europe. maybe a late YYZ-LHR flight?

Definitly can connect to an LHR flight, TLV also. In the summer there's a late FRA flight that would work. ZRH, CDG, and FCO won't connect with this flight. I expect that AC will get the majority of their feed from points east of YYZ where this will work well.

[Edited 2006-03-08 00:38:31]
 
jmy007
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter):
Gee, what a surprise. Now AC announces YYZ-SLC service the day after DL did. Plus, YYZ-SAN returns.

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnw/060307/e_ai...?.v=1

About how long does it take to plan a route before the annoucment of the route?
I would think AC would have had this is the work for a while.
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MAH4546
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 18):
About how long does it take to plan a route before the annoucment of the route?

As long as it takes people in the PR department to write the PR. Given no government restrictions (which there aren't in this case), everything else can be worked out later.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
Who knows. It might be Bob Milton's way of forcing an out of alliance code-share with DL

I don't know why you think this. It isn't.
a.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:54 am

AC in SLC???

I never thought I'd see it happen. This news just made my day! I hope the route does well!
 
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
Who knows. It might be Bob Milton's way of forcing an out of alliance code-share with DL similar to the one DL has with Alaska at SLC. Keep in mind DC/SkyWest serves west coast connections they don't always hit very well with UEX/SkyWest out of DEN.

Star Alliance has the west coast served very well AC flies to SEA & PDX already. UA out of SEA covers the small pacific northwest markets, everything else can be done through LAX and SEA. So codesharing AC/DL from SLC to the west coast would bring nothing new to Air Canada. Everything that DL has from SLC UA has from LAX/SFO/DEN, and now USAirways as well from LAS and PHX. Star Alliance has the west coast covered better than any other alliance i'd say.

'902
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yegbey01
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:01 am

OK..this is funny...really

Why would AC codeshare with DL..only to make their single CRJ flight from YYZ to SLC work....(with low yields too...) come on..bunch of non sense
 
MyOthrCarsA777
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:04 am

I'd like to see AC reinstate their short-lived YYZ-AUS route - the performance was terrible on it but of course it would be when they were operating with an A319 - maybe something that could be done with one of the new Embraers...
 
accargo
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter):
Gee, what a surprise. Now AC announces YYZ-SLC service the day after DL did.

And just yesterday I was thinking "wow, I guess DL wants to get it's announcement out before AC enters the market." With all the new Embraer's and RJ705's AC is getting or now has there are going to be quite a few announcements like this. AC has been planning further US expansion for a while now.

Quoting MyOthrCarsA777 (Reply 23):
I'd like to see AC reinstate their short-lived YYZ-AUS route - the performance was terrible on it but of course it would be when they were operating with an A319 - maybe something that could be done with one of the new Embraers...



Please stand by.
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Aloha717200
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:26 am

I have to be honest though, I don't see why anyone would fly AC SLC-YYZ on a CR7 versus flying in a nice MD-90 on the same route. AC would have been better introducing service on mainline for this route.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
I think AC will do well with SLC year round. Who knows if the route does well maybe few months later AC might offer SLC to YYC and or YVR. What do you think?

DL defends their fortress hubs quite well. Word has it they will upgrade the SLC-YVR route to 738 and possibly 752 service, and SLC-YYC will also go to 738 from CRJ service.
As far as the Star Alliance vs. SkyTeam and code sharing, SkyTeam right now is by far and away the shakiest of all three big FF alliances. With CO dissatisfied with DL, and NW a strong Chapter 7 candidate, there well could be one less by the end of '06. So hence my thinking on why AC has looked at offering YYZ-SLC service and a possible future business dealing beyond MX with DL.
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N1120A
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
Do you really want to fly on a CRJ for 4.30 hrs?

The CR705 is an entirely different monster.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
Can AC sell tickets from USA cities to Europe/Asia?

Of course they can, and they often offer very good fares.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 25):
I have to be honest though, I don't see why anyone would fly AC SLC-YYZ on a CR7 versus flying in a nice MD-90 on the same route

Might be because they aren't flying a CR7. The CR705 is a low density CR9. 2 class aircraft and 34" pitch in the back, with AC's new AVOD product. In this cast, it is actually a better ride.
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 26):
DL defends their fortress hubs

uh...pardon my ignorance, but how can carriers have more than one, wouldn't that be unfair to other carriers?  Smile
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 28):
DL defends their fortress hubs

uh...pardon my ignorance, but how can carriers have more than one, wouldn't that be unfair to other carriers?

SLC is becoming Delta's western version of ATL  biggrin 
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AussieItaliano
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
Can AC sell tickets from USA cities to Europe/Asia? Why would one want to? You'd have to clear customs/immigration in Canada and your European/Asian destination. Or does Air Canada have sterile (meaning no access outside the gate areas) for transfer pasengers??

I often fly AC when travelling to Europe and Asia. From SFO, connections usually go through YYZ or YUL to Europe, and YVR to Asia. All three airports currently require me to go through passport control on the way to Europe or Asia, but bags are checked through to the final destination. In addition, both YUL and YVR have separate queues for passengers in transit at the passport control.

Coming back to the USA, I can avoid Canadian customs altogether (at YVR), and go straight to pre-clearance and then board my US bound flight.

It actually works pretty well, and it will work better once YYZ remodeling is completed. I would prefer to change planes at YYZ, YVR, or YUL any day over some of the dumpy airports on the East coast of the US or Northern Europe.
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san747
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:32 am

Wow... This has been a very happy day for us SAN people- AC is returning the A319 to YYZ, and DL is restarting JFK service!
Scotty doesn't know...
 
RP TPA
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:22 pm

On a semi-related note, does anyone know when AC will move their YYZ transborder ops to the new terminal? A large number of their international flight are there now (mostly everything except the carribean), but as far as I know the "hammerhead" gates, which the intl flights will depart from, are not yet finished. Last I heard (and this was almost a year ago), the USA flights will use the gates on the sides of the new finger, and the intl flights will use the hammerhead. However, this is supposedly changing all the time. Any new info??
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
I doubt SLC-YYZ will last past the end of summer.

The new YYZ-SLC service is one of the most inane ideas that flimsy Air Canada has come up with over the past few years. If Air Canada wanted SLC, why not from YYC, or YVR?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
sebring
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 32):
On a semi-related note, does anyone know when AC will move their YYZ transborder ops to the new terminal? A large number of their international flight are there now (mostly everything except the carribean), but as far as I know the "hammerhead" gates, which the intl flights will depart from, are not yet finished. Last I heard (and this was almost a year ago), the USA flights will use the gates on the sides of the new finger, and the intl flights will use the hammerhead. However, this is supposedly changing all the time. Any new info??

The amalgamation of transborder into Terminal 1 occurs early next year. February, I believe.
 
9252fly
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:15 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 33):
If Air Canada wanted SLC, why not from YYC, or YVR?

Good question. YYC and YVR would offer good connections to the AC network,even though YYZ has the most connection possibilities,especially international and that's where the money is,just ask DL about the reasons for their international expansion. I must admit I was surprise by the annoucement and the more I think about it,the more I'm convinced it's being done for competitive reasons,whether right or wrong,it should be interesting to see which carrier gives up first. If you consider the expansion plans announced by DL of late,especially trans-border,one could have concluded that there would be a response from AC. If you were AC,you might have made the same decison.
 
WesternA318
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 12):
I think it can give a ratty old MD90 a run,

Ratty and old? Come on now, the plane is only 15 years old! I'd rather be on a -90 *except for DL* than on some CRJ *me being 6'3" comes to play on this*

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 25):
I don't see why anyone would fly AC SLC-YYZ on a CR7 versus flying in a nice MD-90 on the same route.

I'd take ANYTHING over DL service anyday...

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 28):
but how can carriers have more than one, wouldn't that be unfair to other carriers?

Umm, American isnt having trouble at DFW and MIA, now are they?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 29):
SLC is becoming Delta's western version of ATL

LOL, 20 years after they first got the idea, they are finally starting to bring this to fruition.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
The CR705 is a low density CR9. 2 class aircraft and 34" pitch in the back, with AC's new AVOD product. In this cast, it is actually a better ride.

Ah, I had no idea, that does sound a bit better.

This raises additional curiousity...the international area at SLC is in Concourse D...but as far as I know there are no gates on D that can accommodate a CRJ-type aircraft. But there are gates on Concourse B that can. I wonder if we are going to see some special arrangements made for AC at SLC?
 
WesternA318
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:23 pm

I think, they'll park them on E1 perhaps, since it is also connected to the Int'l area?
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MAH4546
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 37):
This raises additional curiousity...the international area at SLC is in Concourse D...but as far as I know there are no gates on D that can accommodate a CRJ-type aircraft. But there are gates on Concourse B that can. I wonder if we are going to see some special arrangements made for AC at SLC?

As flights to Toronto pre-clear, they arrive and depart as domestic flights, so it won't be an issue.
a.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 38):
I think, they'll park them on E1 perhaps, since it is also connected to the Int'l area?

Possibly, but those are Skywest's gates, you sure AC could get use of them?
 
WesternA318
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:35 pm

They are Skywest, but I think the SL Dept of Airports owns them, and if a carrier needs them, why not use them? D2 is connected to Intl, and is a DL gate, but Allegro and several others have parked there when they needed customs.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:58 pm

All of this new SLC serivce make me happy  Big grin
 
WesternA318
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 42):
All of this new SLC serivce make me happy

Me too SLCdelta, me too...
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lehpron
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 36):
Umm, American isnt having trouble at DFW and MIA, now are they?

How would I know that dude, I'm not familiar with airline hubs. But ultimately, if there are airlines that have so/too many hubs, could they be considered as regional-monopolies regardless of hypothetical high customer satisfaction?

That is what I want to know.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 33):
The new YYZ-SLC service is one of the most inane ideas that flimsy Air Canada has come up with over the past few years. If Air Canada wanted SLC, why not from YYC, or YVR?

DL has had the corner on that market for a long time, and it would be a suicide run for AC to try and break into the SLC market with such flights, unless they offered an AirBus A320 flights whereas DL has relegated YYC and YVR to CRJ service for much too long (word has it though that those two are going 738 and even 752 this summer). AC should have planned for SLC-YYZ service earlier since Toronto was one eastern market of size SLC still lacked a direct flight to (only NW had a flight stopping in DTW I beleive that was remotely close).
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Tornado82
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
The CR705 is an entirely different monster.

Legroom/IFE aside, a CRJ-7/900 is still the same cross-section of the fuselage, still a "head-banger" if you're taller, no overhead space, and still the same lack of seat-width as it's CRJ-200 brethren, and a joke in comparsion with the Embraer competition in the ~70+ market.
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:02 am

I think there is a very good chance that you will see the EMB190 on the route. It is like last summer when AC originally scheduled the CRJ705 on the YYZ-PHX route. It wasn't long before marketing saw the resistence to the aircraft type and rescheduled the A319 during the slow season. As a result, although scheduled, the YYZ-PHX route was never flown with a CRJ705.

This summer, YYZ-PHX will be an EMB190.

Also, as an aside. I was recently talking with one of our Flight Ops managers, and commenting on the fact that we are hiring 44 new pilots a month, and have been for a year, and will for several years to come ... he replied that AC will be starting over 40 new transborder routes within the next 18 months. (Routes, not destinations). So I think YYZ-SLC is just one of many to come.
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ERJ170
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:09 am

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 47):
he replied that AC will be starting over 40 new transborder routes within the next 18 months. (Routes, not destinations).

Oh.. I'm hoping for the return of RDU-YOW (ex-Canadian Regional) or starting of RDU-YUL (may have been a former AC route) at least a once daily of either would be great for the influx of Canadians into the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill-Cary area..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Tornado82
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RE: AC Responds To DL With SLC Service; SAN Is Back

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 48):
Oh.. I'm hoping for the return of RDU-YOW (ex-Canadian Regional) or starting of RDU-YUL (may have been a former AC route) at least a once daily of either would be great for the influx of Canadians into the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill-Cary area..

As soon as I saw your name in the Last Reply column, I knew you'd be requesting RDU-Montreal.

That said, I think they've got a couple bigger geese to cook before RDU gets its turn.